General & Others Next Strawhat Crew Members and the Grand Fleet
- Thread starter Guan Yu
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it is not problematic that someone disagrees with you if you can not discuss this without escalating you should avoid it.
the problem is not usopp did the lookout job once but that he did it as good as carrot and that proves she is a mediocre lookout .chapter 888 just proved she is a good fighter. but if we see your theory that the job is the front of a mugiwara place in the crew then usopp doing her job is already a problem because if lookout is a mirror of carrot wonder with the world usopp doing her job when carrot just stands in place is a mirror of oda abandoning those themes with her.
you are right in understanding a mugiwara job is a mirror of their position in the crew but to have it working for carrot you ignore she does not work the more obvious points. you are trying to make it look like you have a deep case about carrot while we only see shallow arguments but you fail to understand a case can work first on the shallow before you can go deep.
another thing you ignore is in the deep level carrot chance is weak because oda does not push this wonder with carrot like he is doing with yamato. in wci arc carrot went to a wonder land with all races she never met in the world and there was not one scene or one line where carrot show fascination or wonder. the only time she is interested in something new is when giants are mentioned..... but she meet giants in onigashima and another time no scene or line of wonder. compared to charrot oda tries to remember us many times yamato has this wonder you say carrot has.
it does not mean yamato will join but it means that the core theme of your character oda is doing better with another character at the same time.
the problem is not usopp did the lookout job once but that he did it as good as carrot and that proves she is a mediocre lookout .chapter 888 just proved she is a good fighter. but if we see your theory that the job is the front of a mugiwara place in the crew then usopp doing her job is already a problem because if lookout is a mirror of carrot wonder with the world usopp doing her job when carrot just stands in place is a mirror of oda abandoning those themes with her.
you are right in understanding a mugiwara job is a mirror of their position in the crew but to have it working for carrot you ignore she does not work the more obvious points. you are trying to make it look like you have a deep case about carrot while we only see shallow arguments but you fail to understand a case can work first on the shallow before you can go deep.
another thing you ignore is in the deep level carrot chance is weak because oda does not push this wonder with carrot like he is doing with yamato. in wci arc carrot went to a wonder land with all races she never met in the world and there was not one scene or one line where carrot show fascination or wonder. the only time she is interested in something new is when giants are mentioned..... but she meet giants in onigashima and another time no scene or line of wonder. compared to charrot oda tries to remember us many times yamato has this wonder you say carrot has.
it does not mean yamato will join but it means that the core theme of your character oda is doing better with another character at the same time.
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Again.. if you compare what Usopp did as a normal SNiper (remember that it's unsure if he was at the look out post, in the anime he is on the deck) and what Carrot did on 888.. yes.. it's problematic.. not for me.. but for you as an analyst. It's completely uncomparable both in term of impact and narration and I won't even start that debate, if you can't see it, you are not worthy ofhaving that debate with me as an analyst. It's a deal breaker and it delegitimize you in my eyes INSTANTLY.
So no, I won't accept that ignorant "Usopp is doing better than Carrot" argument anymore. Compare both iterations, see it through.. multiples times if necessary and we might have a discussion about it later.
Yes it works. In fact it works in a better way for her than multiple mugiwara.
I'm not trying, I HAVE. You might no see it.. but trust me, you will sooooon all understand it.
Of course he is. From her design, to her characterization to her actions to her character arc. Everything is done for that theme for Carrot. Yamato on the other hand is push by responsibilities and the search for self discovery. It's completely uncomparable.
You are looking only at the surface of the storytelling, look deeper, go beyond what you see or you won't understand the story fully: >>
He is not, those two are completely different cases.
So no, I won't accept that ignorant "Usopp is doing better than Carrot" argument anymore. Compare both iterations, see it through.. multiples times if necessary and we might have a discussion about it later.
Yes it works. In fact it works in a better way for her than multiple mugiwara.
I'm not trying, I HAVE. You might no see it.. but trust me, you will sooooon all understand it.
Of course he is. From her design, to her characterization to her actions to her character arc. Everything is done for that theme for Carrot. Yamato on the other hand is push by responsibilities and the search for self discovery. It's completely uncomparable.
You are looking only at the surface of the storytelling, look deeper, go beyond what you see or you won't understand the story fully: >>
He is not, those two are completely different cases.
i was taking you seriously until this point. i am not lying saying i laughed reading this of embarrassment. your level of pretention is pathetic.
i did not understand why older users treated you as the butt of a joke and tried to take you seriously. i am new so i did not realized it yet but you proved yourself to another person.
the rest of your post was a waste of time it is obvious i would not read anything beyond this point.
i did not understand why older users treated you as the butt of a joke and tried to take you seriously. i am new so i did not realized it yet but you proved yourself to another person.
the rest of your post was a waste of time it is obvious i would not read anything beyond this point.
Oh I do understand. I completely understand that my confidence on the subject and the opinion of not having debate over some subject can seem pretantious on a certain level, but it doesn't change the fact that it is what it is. I have knowledge and I won't give you the pleasure of taking you all by the hand everytime I need to make a statement about the story.
I understand that for some reasons, my points can seems strange.. It's logical, storytelling is not meant to be an easy craft to understand. But I won't make things any less easy because of that anymore.
So .. If you don't want to understand.. let's just agree to disagree and not talk about it at all. I'm done playing the teacher to the ones who won't even read the story or analyse it with the eyes of a writer.
You do you. As I said, I'm done playing the teacher here. If you don't want to listen, you will just be ignored from this point on.
And no, you weren't. By comparing the job done by Usopp and the job done by Carrot on the look out post and saying that Carrot's part was "mediocre".. you are not taking things seriously at all me or the subject.. You are just doing what everyone else is doing here: talking shit about Carrot for no reasons and without evidences.
I understand that for some reasons, my points can seems strange.. It's logical, storytelling is not meant to be an easy craft to understand. But I won't make things any less easy because of that anymore.
So .. If you don't want to understand.. let's just agree to disagree and not talk about it at all. I'm done playing the teacher to the ones who won't even read the story or analyse it with the eyes of a writer.
You do you. As I said, I'm done playing the teacher here. If you don't want to listen, you will just be ignored from this point on.
And no, you weren't. By comparing the job done by Usopp and the job done by Carrot on the look out post and saying that Carrot's part was "mediocre".. you are not taking things seriously at all me or the subject.. You are just doing what everyone else is doing here: talking shit about Carrot for no reasons and without evidences.
But if Oda really wanted to establish a role for Carrot on the crew, why wouldn't he show her doing it with the rest of the crew present? We just got to see the Strawhats infiltrate enemy territory, which according to you is what a sentry would specialize at. Why don't we see her doing more then?
The thing is though, the theme of Drum Island is Inherited Will. Yes, it's a theme present with Strawhats before and after Chopper. But I feel like he arguably has the clearest example of it. After all, the chapter called "Inherited Will" focused on him. I'm not saying that confidence isn't a theme with his character, but I just don't think it's the MAIN theme.
I think Franky's is definitely responsibility. The whole point of his flashback was him understanding the responsibility he has as a creator. That's why him being responsible for the Pluton blueprints was important. Yes pride is a part of that (After all, “If you're a man, then do it with a Don”), but I wouldn't say it's the main thing.
Let me ask you this:
How many Strawhats are as good a cook Sanji? How many of them are as good a shipwright as Franky? How many of them know as much about history as Robin? How many can navigate as well as Nami? How many of them can use a sword as skillfully as Zoro?
Meanwhile Carrot's eyes are good, but not as good as Usopp's. She's agile, but probably not as agile as Sanji is. She's not as good at recon as Robin, a woman who can place eyes and ears where ever she likes and has years of experience under her belt. She can guard things, sure, but not as good as Zoro can. Yes Carrot can jump high, but Sanji can fly and now that Nami has Zeus she can just have him fly around to get a good look at things. Yes, Carrot can create lightning, but so can Nami and probably Franky.
And yes I've actually gone ahead and read your blog and you never explain what Carrot can do that no other Strawhat can do better.
The thing is though, the theme of Drum Island is Inherited Will. Yes, it's a theme present with Strawhats before and after Chopper. But I feel like he arguably has the clearest example of it. After all, the chapter called "Inherited Will" focused on him. I'm not saying that confidence isn't a theme with his character, but I just don't think it's the MAIN theme.
I think Franky's is definitely responsibility. The whole point of his flashback was him understanding the responsibility he has as a creator. That's why him being responsible for the Pluton blueprints was important. Yes pride is a part of that (After all, “If you're a man, then do it with a Don”), but I wouldn't say it's the main thing.
Let me ask you this:
How many Strawhats are as good a cook Sanji? How many of them are as good a shipwright as Franky? How many of them know as much about history as Robin? How many can navigate as well as Nami? How many of them can use a sword as skillfully as Zoro?
Meanwhile Carrot's eyes are good, but not as good as Usopp's. She's agile, but probably not as agile as Sanji is. She's not as good at recon as Robin, a woman who can place eyes and ears where ever she likes and has years of experience under her belt. She can guard things, sure, but not as good as Zoro can. Yes Carrot can jump high, but Sanji can fly and now that Nami has Zeus she can just have him fly around to get a good look at things. Yes, Carrot can create lightning, but so can Nami and probably Franky.
And yes I've actually gone ahead and read your blog and you never explain what Carrot can do that no other Strawhat can do better.
He had to do it sometime and the only moment that it was relevant was 888 because of multiple factor linked to the storylines and the narration. So he did make the crew react, just enough.
This is indeed one of my question. Oda could've done something for Carrot. But you have to ask.. would it fit the narration ? My guess is no.. not in this one.. showing Carrot doing something incredible while she was absent the rest of the arc would have only felt.. pretty strange.. That's why I thinkk Oda is keeping her low for now. It's all about the momentum of the characters.
Not really, if you talk about inherited will.. the one with the most links to that theme would be Robin (for a lot of reasons). At least in the storytelling. Drum was just the place the theme took a major place, but it was here all along and it was only here to reenforce Chopper's already given theme.
Franky's all arc is the complete opposite of that. THeir is a part of "responsibility" to it, but the whole arc revolves around the message of his old master: "you must always take pride in what you make no matter the outcome". In fact the entire personnality/design/choices and arc of Franky revolves around Prideness, if you want I could write you a little analysis about that, because it's a very interesting topic storytelling wise. (I'm just a little tired right now)
None. But let me answer you back: How many strawhat couldve done in 888 what Carrot did in that context ? None either. Sanji is too slow, the others can fly or are just too dumb and would have engaged a fight. Carrot was the perfect fit to do the perfect job.. but even more so: How many strawhat can see the world like Carrot can ? The answer is none. Not even Luffy (now) does that. Carrot is pure wonder. It's her thing. That's what she is good at, I know it's a bit weird to say it like that as it is not a skill but a way to be, but it's true.
Wonder. That's her thing. That's her value. And that's for a good reason: we are at the end of the story, we understand the world now.. even Luffy is starting to grow.. but we still need to see that excitment in the characters. That's what Carrot is here for. A new pair of eyes.. at the look out post.
Debatable.. In non canon material, Carrot's eyesight is said to be excellent. (Pirate Warrior)
Also very debatable. The Sulong in it self (look at the panel in 889) proves otherwise.
Recon is not intel, it's about being on the field. (888) (804)
But that's not his job.. neither is her's.
Carrot can float. And her jumping ability rivals Sanji's skywalk in term of speed.
Not her job.
And Brook can swing a sword.. just like Zoro.. the accumulation of skill is therefore not a problem to the recrutment.
Because that's not how it works. It's not about being "better" or the "best" it's about being the perfect FIT for the crew.
This is indeed one of my question. Oda could've done something for Carrot. But you have to ask.. would it fit the narration ? My guess is no.. not in this one.. showing Carrot doing something incredible while she was absent the rest of the arc would have only felt.. pretty strange.. That's why I thinkk Oda is keeping her low for now. It's all about the momentum of the characters.
Not really, if you talk about inherited will.. the one with the most links to that theme would be Robin (for a lot of reasons). At least in the storytelling. Drum was just the place the theme took a major place, but it was here all along and it was only here to reenforce Chopper's already given theme.
Franky's all arc is the complete opposite of that. THeir is a part of "responsibility" to it, but the whole arc revolves around the message of his old master: "you must always take pride in what you make no matter the outcome". In fact the entire personnality/design/choices and arc of Franky revolves around Prideness, if you want I could write you a little analysis about that, because it's a very interesting topic storytelling wise. (I'm just a little tired right now)
None. But let me answer you back: How many strawhat couldve done in 888 what Carrot did in that context ? None either. Sanji is too slow, the others can fly or are just too dumb and would have engaged a fight. Carrot was the perfect fit to do the perfect job.. but even more so: How many strawhat can see the world like Carrot can ? The answer is none. Not even Luffy (now) does that. Carrot is pure wonder. It's her thing. That's what she is good at, I know it's a bit weird to say it like that as it is not a skill but a way to be, but it's true.
Wonder. That's her thing. That's her value. And that's for a good reason: we are at the end of the story, we understand the world now.. even Luffy is starting to grow.. but we still need to see that excitment in the characters. That's what Carrot is here for. A new pair of eyes.. at the look out post.
Debatable.. In non canon material, Carrot's eyesight is said to be excellent. (Pirate Warrior)
Also very debatable. The Sulong in it self (look at the panel in 889) proves otherwise.
Recon is not intel, it's about being on the field. (888) (804)
But that's not his job.. neither is her's.
Carrot can float. And her jumping ability rivals Sanji's skywalk in term of speed.
Not her job.
And Brook can swing a sword.. just like Zoro.. the accumulation of skill is therefore not a problem to the recrutment.
Because that's not how it works. It's not about being "better" or the "best" it's about being the perfect FIT for the crew.
All of those you trying to prove don't even make any sense 😭, Sanji skywalk is literally him flying not for speed 😭 Nami lighting is much more power than carrot, there is no showing of carrot floating in her base form 😕 I thought we been over this already 🙄, not to mention carrot isn't in Usopp league in terms of being a lookout cause carrot hasn't shown better
observation than Usopp in Dressora but you use what she does in WCI when in dressora Usopp unlock Observation Haki for the first time 🤔, u use that carrot can jump high when everybody in the crew is also a high jumper as well. Carrot has nothing that other SHs can't do the only thing she have is the sulong form which doesn't really matter because it's not something she can use daily only once a month full moon which is pretty useless if you think about it 😭
observation than Usopp in Dressora but you use what she does in WCI when in dressora Usopp unlock Observation Haki for the first time 🤔, u use that carrot can jump high when everybody in the crew is also a high jumper as well. Carrot has nothing that other SHs can't do the only thing she have is the sulong form which doesn't really matter because it's not something she can use daily only once a month full moon which is pretty useless if you think about it 😭
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