Character Discussion Oda should’ve done a better job at portraying BB as a schemer

#22
He is both at the same time, and that’s why he’s my favorite character by a landslide. The way bb achieves things is significantly more realistic than an Aizen, Light or Lelouch. In the real world, you often have a plan where lots of things go well and several don’t. (Or more) Things may or may work out, and rarely exactly how you expected them to.


“It’s all a part of the plan… not that it’s gone smoothly” is the essence of teach’s rise. It wouldn’t have happened without his ambition or his scheming. It also wouldn't have happened without him catching several key lucky breaks. And in most cases, it wasn’t entirely dumb luck, but a combination of his strength, charisma, and the people he recruited.

He’s calculated, but sloppy. Strong, but cowardly. Ambitious, but willing to leave things to fate. A complex character with a complex arc. A rarity in one piece.
That's what makes BB different from any other villain
 

Reborn

Throughout Heaven & Earth,I alone am d Honored One
#23
That's what define Teach as rival to Luffy.


I don't know why people ignores that two aspects of Teach personality and comes up with narrow interpretation

1) Teach is Luffy's dark version in all sense.

Everything about them is more or less same or rivals it incuding extreme luck and crew parallel but what differs is the means to achieve the goal and ultimate desire/purpose - one will lighten the world if he achieves the goal and other will plunge the World into darkness of achieve his goal.


This is classic light vs dark parallel.

2) Contradictions in his personality - let's be real I don't think Oda is dumb enough to not know how to portray a character..

There is remarkable consistency in his portrayal of other important characters - shanks, Akainu, Dragon, GB, Luffy, Zoro, Sanji, Elders, WB and so on.


But why there are contradictions when it comes to BB? It's naive to think oda doesn't know what to do but rather he's exactly portraying BB the way he's supposed to be drawn...

Mirror image of Luffy in all sense with dark theme and split personalities in lieu of his body being abnormal and being able to eat more than one DFS.
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He is both at the same time, and that’s why he’s my favorite character by a landslide. The way bb achieves things is significantly more realistic than an Aizen, Light or Lelouch. In the real world, you often have a plan where lots of things go well and several don’t. (Or more) Things may or may work out, and rarely exactly how you expected them to.


“It’s all a part of the plan… not that it’s gone smoothly” is the essence of teach’s rise. It wouldn’t have happened without his ambition or his scheming. It also wouldn't have happened without him catching several key lucky breaks. And in most cases, it wasn’t entirely dumb luck, but a combination of his strength, charisma, and the people he recruited.

He’s calculated, but sloppy. Strong, but cowardly. Ambitious, but willing to leave things to fate. A complex character with a complex arc. A rarity in one piece.
Well said


He's well fleshed out character in one piece when it comes to character portrayal despite not getting his own arc yet.

He's perfect depiction of how pirate are supposed to be.


Funny thing is people reading pirate manga center around pirates don't care about pirate personality - give them badass moments and some badass scenes and they will go waahhhhh...
 
#24
He is more so carried by luck. He didn't planned MF war from the start. He didn't even want to capture ace initially but wanted him to join his crew. His main goal was to capture any high level pirate and give them to marines as to become a warlord and use it to invade impel down.

If his Target was an unimportant pirate with high bounty , his objective in impel down would have failed.
 
#28
He is more so carried by luck. He didn't planned MF war from the start. He didn't even want to capture ace initially but wanted him to join his crew. His main goal was to capture any high level pirate and give them to marines as to become a warlord and use it to invade impel down.

If his Target was an unimportant pirate with high bounty , his objective in impel down would have failed.
Not counting that if not for Luffy's intervention into Impel Down and all the chaos he caused, he and his crew would most likely have been killed by Magellan.
 
#31
Right from the start in Jaya it was emphasized that his crew relies on “fate.” Blackbeard makes plans (some of them plain dumb) and relies on fate to take him through.
I’ve never considered him the Aizen, Lelouch etc type. He’s just a careless dumbass waiting to see if the winds blow his way.
 
#32
It’s because Blackbeard believes in the will of fate and destiny. He’ll make plans, but when Fate pushes it another direction he doesn’t lament his plans he just capitalizes on opportunity.

His plans may fail, but they fail for the better like his pre timeskip plan to kill Luffy to become a warlord. It failed but instead he captures Ace, and is given the title and is also given an opportunity to take the impel down prisoners he’s wanted for his crew as well as Whitebeards fruit all in one clean sweep.

His current plan he took Coby in hopes of using him to barter, and because of that he now has Garp a much bigger more valuable fish and who knows what the end game is but he’ll definitely get it.

Blackbeard isn’t supposed to be some Aizen level schemer, he’s just a guy who doesn’t doubt his fate when it presents itself.
 
#33
One of the problems I have with BB is that it seems like Oda can’t decide if BB is really a master schemer or dumbass who gets very lucky. Let’s look at BB’s various plans throughout the series.

His very first plan in his quest to conquer the world was to just hope that he’d stumble upon the Yami one day. Not exactly a clever plan.
Darkness DF is as important as Nika DF as its the counter for it. Darkness DF was going to show up somewhere, his plan was to be in best place to find it, if he couldn't, then kill the guy who finds it, for his bad luck, it happened to one of the WB Pirates, Thatch. Highly possible that the Darkness DF tested Teach if he could kill a WB Pirate for that and he still killed Thatch to take it. If someone who isn't from WB Pirates find it, it would be easier for Teach to steal it without troube, he would find that guy and steal it from by killing him. He still overcome that bad luck and accomplished his mission. He believes in ''fate'' as well.

His second plan was to become a Warlord so he could go to Impel Down and recruit the strongest Level 6 prisoners. He didn’t have a defined plan for how he’d do this until he noticed Luffy rising quickly as a pirate and decided that turning in Luffy could give him an invite to the Warlords. If BB went with his original plan, he’d have just straight up died at ID since he’d get trashed by Magellan, and Shiryu wouldn’t be roaming around to save him. If BB didn’t get lucky and have Ace hunt him down (something which he seemingly didn’t plan for), he would have died. Even if he somehow didn’t die at ID, he wouldn’t be able to steal the Gura as quickly as he did since WB wouldn’t go to MF.
The circumstances would be completely different if Luffy wasn't there, they would face with Magellan differently since Magellan wouldn't be in the level 4, and perhaps they might learn Magellan has poison so they wouldn't get caught off-guard by it in a different scenario.

''Fate'' is also a factor in this, Shiryu will be very important for his crew, and ''fate'' decided that Shiryu was going to play a part in his Impel Down mission.


His third plan was to jump a severely weakened WB and steal his fruit. BB got his ass kicked by a 2 HP WB and would’ve died if WB was just slightly more healthy. He also probably would’ve been killed by the Marines if Shanks didn’t stop the war.

His 4th plan was to use Bonney as bait to steal a Marine battleship. This ended up failing spectacularly since Akainu came to capture Bonney and the BBPs had to run away.
There was no guarantee that WB was going to lose that battle, so that can't be his plan. He didn't attack WB anyways, WB attacked him first. He was just waiting to see whats going to happen, if WB died there, he would get it without even needing to fight him.

Also, saying that Teach would ''die'' when you don't know what is his durability and stamina limit is dumb, Teach took 2 attacks that KOed Akainu, and he still didn't even come close to getting KOed, and he get up and fought Sengoku+Garp like nothing happened.

There was no plan about Battle Ship as well until San Juan broke their Raft, he would steal a ship in Marineford if he knew San Juan was going to break their Raft.

Now let’s look at BB’s post-TS plans, which have been really bad and underwhelming so far.

1. Send Burgess by himself to secure the Mera, a very powerful fruit. We all know how well that went.
If not for Sabo showing up, Burgess would steal it.

Then Burgess find Revolutionary HQ and they destroyed it and stole weapons from there.


2. Sail all the way to Amazon Lily, with only Devon and Shot as backup, to steal the Mero, and presumably make it his 3rd DF? The Mero is a good fruit, but it’s certainly not on the same level as the Yami and Gura, and idk why BB thought it’d be a good fit for him. He ended up failing to secure the Mero. He did manage to steal Coby, but he had no way of knowing Coby would be there, so this is just another example of BB getting lucky.
His plan was to not let Marines take Hancock's DF, and Marines didn't take it.

He also didn't know about Rayleigh and Seraphims but that still didn't stop him from kidnapping 800 Marines and trading with Koby.

3. Use Coby as blackmail so that the WG will be forced to make him a king. Does anyone really believe that this would have worked out as BB intended? Even Kuzan didn’t think it would. BB got super lucky that Coby was actually Garp’s protege (something he couldn’t have possibly known), and that Garp himself decided to go to Hachinosu to free Coby. BB ended up having Coby traded for Garp, which works out much better for him since Garp is a much better bargaining chip, but again, this was pure luck for BB
Teach maybe was testing Aokiji's loyalty.

Still, as Teach said, since Koby was known as ''Hero'', kidnapping a Hero figure from World Government and making Government look weak was their plan.

Garp is getting involved in it was a bad luck not luck, LMAO, especially when Teach was in somewhere else. Defeating Garp would be pain in the ass without Teach, without Shiryu even Aokiji couldn't handle him.

4. Jump whichever one of the Kid, Heart, or SH Pirates went on the route to Winner Island to steal their RP rubbings, but bring only Burgess, Augur, and Doc Q as backup. Sure, if he ran into the Kid or Heart Pirates, he could beat them fairly easily and get their rubbings, but if he ran into the SHPs, he’d have died. I have current BB beating current Luffy high/extreme diff, but the rest of the SHs would make short work of Burgess, Augur, and Doc Q and help Luffy beat BB

Also, it’s super weird how BB doesn’t seem to have any particular fruit in mind for his 3rd DF. First, he tried to get the Mero of all fruits. Then he considered stealing the Ope for himself, which would be a good pick since it is a top 5 fruit, but it didn’t even seem like that was his intention from the get-go when he jumped Law. Seems like BB may just get lucky again and stumble upon a Mythical Zoan God Fruit
Lmao ''dying'' BS as if you clown even know Teach's durability and stamina limit, did you forget your idol reminding you clowns even without DF Teach is powerful? :endthis: If that was easy your mentality should be;

''If Shanks came to Marineford 2 years ago he would kill BB''

Well guess what, he did come to Marineford and he didn't do shit about BB. Because he knows how powerful he is, he has a scar to remind him that.

1- Law has a submarine that can tank attacks much better in sea battle vs Quake DF user, Luffy's ship was almost sinked by Vegapunk's robot, SH Pirates would be in massive disadvantage vs Teach in a sea battle, they are not surviving Quake attacks, their ship would be destroyed.

2- Teach would solo Luffy and Zolo no problem, at worse even if a miracle happens and he can't beat them, Teach would go all out with Quake DF and create massive Earthquakes and Tsunamis to sink them, SH Pirates aren't surviving that fight.
Teach would've been killed so horribly in this scenario, not even funny.
Let me guess, mighty Zolo the ZKK King would be a huge factor in a Emperor vs Emperor battle? :milaugh: Too bad, Zolo was trashed in Rooftop battle, Luffy soloed Kaido, Zolo was no factor.

Teach would put Zolo swords up his ass if Zolo tried to fight him, it wouldn't even be close. Teach solos both Luffy and Zolo.
 
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TheAncientCenturion

I will never forgive Oda
‎‎‎
#34
Darkness DF is as important as Nika DF as its the counter for it. Darkness DF was going to show up somewhere, his plan was to be in best place to find it, if he couldn't, then kill the guy who finds it, for his bad luck, it happened to one of the WB Pirates, Thatch. Highly possible that the Darkness DF tested Teach if he could kill a WB Pirate for that and he still killed Thatch to take it. If someone who isn't from WB Pirates find it, it would be easier for Teach to steal it without troube, he would find that guy and steal it from by killing him. He still overcome that bad luck and accomplished his mission. He believes in ''fate'' as well.



The circumstances would be completely different if Luffy wasn't there, they would face with Magellan differently since Magellan wouldn't be in the level 4, and perhaps they might learn Magellan has poison so they wouldn't get caught off-guard by it in a different scenario.

''Fate'' is also a factor in this, Shiryu will be very important for his crew, and ''fate'' decided that Shiryu was going to play a part in his Impel Down mission.



There was no guarantee that WB was going to lose that battle, so that can't be his plan. He didn't attack WB anyways, WB attacked him first. He was just waiting to see whats going to happen, if WB died there, he would get it without even needing to fight him.

Also, saying that Teach would ''die'' when you don't know what is his durability and stamina limit is dumb, Teach took 2 attacks that KOed Akainu, and he still didn't even come close to getting KOed, and he get up and fought Sengoku+Garp like nothing happened.

There was no plan about Battle Ship as well until San Juan broke their Raft, he would steal a ship in Marineford if he knew San Juan was going to break their Raft.


Darkness DF is as important as Nika DF as its the counter for it. Darkness DF was going to show up somewhere, his plan was to be in best place to find it, if he couldn't, then kill the guy who finds it, for his bad luck, it happened to one of the WB Pirates, Thatch. Highly possible that the Darkness DF tested Teach if he could kill ''his friend'' for that and he still killed Thatch to take it. If someone who isn't from WB Pirates find it, it would be easier for Teach to steal it without troube, he would find that guy and steal it from by killing him. He still overcome that bad luck and accomplished his mission. He believes in ''fate'' as well.



The circumstances would be completely different if Luffy wasn't there, they would face with Magellan differently since Magellan wouldn't be in the level 4, and perhaps they might learn Magellan has poison so they wouldn't get caught off-guard by it in a different scenario.

''Fate'' is also a factor in this, Shiryu will be very important for his crew, and ''fate'' decided that Shiryu was going to play a part in his Impel Down mission.


If not for Sabo showing up, Burgess would steal it.

Then Burgess find Revolutionary HQ and they destroyed it and stole weapons from there.


Darkness DF is as important as Nika DF as its the counter for it. Darkness DF was going to show up somewhere, his plan was to be in best place to find it, if he couldn't, then kill the guy who finds it, for his bad luck, it happened to one of the WB Pirates, Thatch. Highly possible that the Darkness DF tested Teach if he could kill ''his friend'' for that and he still killed Thatch to take it. If someone who isn't from WB Pirates find it, it would be easier for Teach to steal it without troube, he would find that guy and steal it from by killing him. He still overcome that bad luck and accomplished his mission. He believes in ''fate'' as well.



The circumstances would be completely different if Luffy wasn't there, they would face with Magellan differently since Magellan wouldn't be in the level 4, and perhaps they might learn Magellan has poison so they wouldn't get caught off-guard by it in a different scenario.

''Fate'' is also a factor in this, Shiryu will be very important for his crew, and ''fate'' decided that Shiryu was going to play a part in his Impel Down mission.


His plan was to not let Marines take Hancock's DF, and Marines didn't take it.

He also didn't know about Rayleigh and Seraphims but that still didn't stop him from kidnapping 800 Marines and trading with Koby.


Darkness DF is as important as Nika DF as its the counter for it. Darkness DF was going to show up somewhere, his plan was to be in best place to find it, if he couldn't, then kill the guy who finds it, for his bad luck, it happened to one of the WB Pirates, Thatch. Highly possible that the Darkness DF tested Teach if he could kill ''his friend'' for that and he still killed Thatch to take it. If someone who isn't from WB Pirates find it, it would be easier for Teach to steal it without troube, he would find that guy and steal it from by killing him. He still overcome that bad luck and accomplished his mission. He believes in ''fate'' as well.



The circumstances would be completely different if Luffy wasn't there, they would face with Magellan differently since Magellan wouldn't be in the level 4, and perhaps they might learn Magellan has poison so they wouldn't get caught off-guard by it in a different scenario.

''Fate'' is also a factor in this, Shiryu will be very important for his crew, and ''fate'' decided that Shiryu was going to play a part in his Impel Down mission.


Teach maybe was testing Aokiji's loyalty.

Still, as Teach said, since Koby was known as ''Hero'', kidnapping a Hero figure from World Government and making Government look weak was their plan.

Garp is getting involved in it was a bad luck not luck, LMAO, especially when Teach was in somewhere else. Defeating Garp would be pain in the ass without Teach, without Shiryu even Aokiji couldn't handle him.


Darkness DF is as important as Nika DF as its the counter for it. Darkness DF was going to show up somewhere, his plan was to be in best place to find it, if he couldn't, then kill the guy who finds it, for his bad luck, it happened to one of the WB Pirates, Thatch. Highly possible that the Darkness DF tested Teach if he could kill ''his friend'' for that and he still killed Thatch to take it. If someone who isn't from WB Pirates find it, it would be easier for Teach to steal it without troube, he would find that guy and steal it from by killing him. He still overcome that bad luck and accomplished his mission. He believes in ''fate'' as well.



The circumstances would be completely different if Luffy wasn't there, they would face with Magellan differently since Magellan wouldn't be in the level 4, and perhaps they might learn Magellan has poison so they wouldn't get caught off-guard by it in a different scenario.

''Fate'' is also a factor in this, Shiryu will be very important for his crew, and ''fate'' decided that Shiryu was going to play a part in his Impel Down mission.



Lmao ''dying'' BS as if you clown even know Teach's durability and stamina limit, did you forget your idol reminding you clowns even without DF Teach is powerful? :endthis: If that was easy your mentality should be;

''If Shanks came to Marineford 2 years ago he would kill BB''

Well guess what, he did come to Marineford and he didn't do shit about BB. Because he knows how powerful he is, he has a scar to remind him that.

1- Law has a submarine that can tank attacks much better in sea battle vs Quake DF user, Luffy's ship was almost sinked by Vegapunk's robot, SH Pirates would be in massive disadvantage vs Teach in a sea battle, they are not surviving Quake attacks, their ship would be destroyed.

2- Teach would solo Luffy and Zolo no problem, at worse even if a miracle happens and he can't beat them, Teach would go all out with Quake DF and create massive Earthquakes and Tsunamis to sink them, SH Pirates aren't surviving that fight.

Let me guess, mighty Zolo the ZKK King would be a huge factor in a Emperor vs Emperor battle? :milaugh: Too bad, Zolo was trashed in Rooftop battle, Luffy soloed Kaido, Zolo was no factor.

Teach would put Zolo swords up his ass if Zolo tried to fight him, it wouldn't even be close. Teach solos both Luffy and Zolo.
Teach versus Luffy & Zoro (before the whole crew joins in after killing his underlings present) would be too much for Teach
 
#36
BB was not beating the SHs, definitely cocky on his part.
On topic, luck has always been a factor for Teach. Him and his whole crew believes in fated tides, they go and accept what the tides offers them. He’s still a great schemer and character in general. As others have said, he’s not a lazily written character like Aizen who knows everything.
 
#37
In short, Teach happens to be the only one with balls outside Luffy to move the overarching plot, and for that Oda rewards him by pulling his ass out of the consequences.
 
#38
Teach versus Luffy & Zoro (before the whole crew joins in after killing his underlings present) would be too much for Teach
Underlings are irrelevant to conclusion, they would be saved once Teach beats Luffy, Zolo wouldn't be a factor just like he wasn't on the Rooftop vs Kaido, it was Luffy vs Kaido in the end.

Teach started to that fight with taking a Shock Wille, and he still didn't go all out vs Zolo's superior Law, despite he had to deal with a submarine attacking their ship from underwater.

Especially at Sea where the Straw Hats have a massive advantage because of the Sunny’s fire power and Jinbes Fishman Karate.

Blackbeard is very lucky
Submarine durability >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regular Ship durability vs Sea Quakes.

Tsunamis does little damage to Submarines, as they can't be sinked.

Law was diving under water to run away, and still their submarine was getting damaged. Regular ships would fall much earlier.

Regular ships like SH Pirates has no chance to survive Sea Quake attacks, they would sinked easily, their ship would be destoyed earlier than Law's.


1 Attack from Big mom almost ended them.

Jinbe might tried to manuever the ship like this again, Teach's Sea Quake attacks >>>>>>>>> Big mom's attacks.


SH Pirates were divided due to some fodder Sea Weapon attacking their ship, they have no chance vs Teach's Sea Quakes that creates Tsunamis.

 
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