Current Events Oda's handling of the F6 and Jack is exceedingly weird

[Paperchampion23]

Okay, I usually wait until an arc is over to make my bigger criticisms, but I think this one has sat in the oven long enough considering most characters have moved on already from where they were previously.

I'll put it plainly: relative to the Strawhats, I did not like how the F6 and Jack were handled. It's very easy to see why, outside of Black Maria vs Robin, none of them truly felt like hard earned 1v1's that provided established growth for said Strawhat. Just to quickly summarize:

- Usopp vs Page 1 (if we can even call it that), was quickly shafted as a BM hype moment.

- Nami vs Ulti was less so this, but still weakened by BM and provided a powerup from the same character to give Nami a 1 hit win. But I digress, it at least felt better than what Usopp got

- Jinbe vs WsW felt like it was getting good/going somewhere, until it ended before it felt like it should have ended. WsW did virtually nothing to show why he was ever considered Lucci's rival. Nothing to really differentiate his Sabretooth DF from Lucci's leopard one, where the latter showed an insane amount of techniques due to having the benefit of being Luffy's opponent.

- Franky vs Sasaki was the same deal. It was even shorter and it felt like Sasaki just didn't show off as much as he should have. Franky left that fight relatively unscathed since his armor took all of the damage.

- Robin vs Black Maria was fine for the most part. She showed new techniques and I was fine with how the battle played out. I'm also glad she got mostly a solo fight, though it sucks Brook didn't get much either.

- Don't even want to talk about Chopper lol. This was the best opportunity (idk, MAYBE it still comes along but I'm not counting on it)

- Inu vs Jack I GET needed to happen at this point, but it was also laughably shafted when you compare the complete exposure Queen and King have gotten, before and after the moments where Sanji and Zoro started attacking them.


Again, maybe im miraculously wrong here and they all get up, but considering the narrator announced their defeats, I doubt it.

The only other thing I can sort of think of is maybe after the island lands, Oda is saving these 7 strawhats and Yamato to hold off the BMP while the remaining 4 main fights finish (nothing crazy like a 1v1 chapter per strawhat, but just a big exposition over several chapters). Yamato i could see being the one to hold off Smoothie, Jinbe/Franky can fight Snack or Compote, and Brook/Robin/Usopp/Nami/Chopper can take out any number of other enemies with new techniques etc.

It's a better excuse than them fighting pure fodder (discounting the last 4 Numbers), but I'm not counting on that either happening. I just can't really see any explanation for having:


- The crew be relatively healthy for their post Yonko fights
- From those fights, the weakling trio being assisted or removed from their major battles
- Between Jinbe/Brook/Franky, being relatively healthy. Even Robin looks complete fine again, ready to fight CP-0
- Yamato just being fine after her fight with Kaido.

So what's Oda's play here? While Sanji, Zoro, Kid, Law and Luffy (even Apoo/Drake) are fighting much harder battles with bigger villains and much further exposition, what do you think these 8 will do if/when the island lands? Did you like the F5 fights? Jack's? Will the BMP actually show up and be a final threat for the crew? Is this why he's left everyone somewhat healthy?

 

[Lukegranders]

They will get wrapped up into their own plotlines

Usopp vs weakened ulti and weakened page one

Jinbe with the fire kanjuro set ablaze

Robin and brook will go for the poneglypth

Etc.

Big mom pirates won’t be defeated by straw hats lmao. It’s straw hats vs beast pirates for a reason.

Also if anything in my opinion killer is fighting smoothie because his captain is fighting big mom.

Yamatos role is the bombs.

Oda will 100% drag out these plot lines

 

[Finalbeta]

I guess this is the sad fate of the less relevant villains :/ I expected longer fights but their level of relevance wasn't comparable to the calamities and even then Jack was done dirty. I think Jack is Oda's worst move for the way he was handled, not the character itself. I would have likely if he gave more space to the others too notwithstanding my premise.

 

[sanjikun]

Okay, I usually wait until an arc is over to make my bigger criticisms, but I think this one has sat in the oven long enough considering most characters have moved on already from where they were previously.

I'll put it plainly: relative to the Strawhats, I did not like how the F6 and Jack were handled. It's very easy to see why, outside of Black Maria vs Robin, none of them truly felt like hard earned 1v1's that provided established growth for said Strawhat. Just to quickly summarize:

- Usopp vs Page 1 (if we can even call it that), was quickly shafted as a BM hype moment.

- Nami vs Ulti was less so this, but still weakened by BM and provided a powerup from the same character to give Nami a 1 hit win. But I digress, it at least felt better than what Usopp got

- Jinbe vs WsW felt like it was getting good/going somewhere, until it ended before it felt like it should have ended. WsW did virtually nothing to show why he was ever considered Lucci's rival. Nothing to really differentiate his Sabretooth DF from Lucci's leopard one, where the latter showed an insane amount of techniques due to having the benefit of being Luffy's opponent.

- Franky vs Sasaki was the same deal. It was even shorter and it felt like Sasaki just didn't show off as much as he should have. Franky left that fight relatively unscathed since his armor took all of the damage.

- Robin vs Black Maria was fine for the most part. She showed new techniques and I was fine with how the battle played out. I'm also glad she got mostly a solo fight, though it sucks Brook didn't get much either.

- Don't even want to talk about Chopper lol. This was the best opportunity (idk, MAYBE it still comes along but I'm not counting on it)

- Inu vs Jack I GET needed to happen at this point, but it was also laughably shafted when you compare the complete exposure Queen and King have gotten, before and after the moments where Sanji and Zoro started attacking them.


Again, maybe im miraculously wrong here and they all get up, but considering the narrator announced their defeats, I doubt it.

The only other thing I can sort of think of is maybe after the island lands, Oda is saving these 7 strawhats and Yamato to hold off the BMP while the remaining 4 main fights finish (nothing crazy like a 1v1 chapter per strawhat, but just a big exposition over several chapters). Yamato i could see being the one to hold off Smoothie, Jinbe/Franky can fight Snack or Compote, and Brook/Robin/Usopp/Nami/Chopper can take out any number of other enemies with new techniques etc.

It's a better excuse than them fighting pure fodder (discounting the last 4 Numbers), but I'm not counting on that either happening. I just can't really see any explanation for having:


- The crew be relatively healthy for their post Yonko fights
- From those fights, the weakling trio being assisted or removed from their major battles
- Between Jinbe/Brook/Franky, being relatively healthy. Even Robin looks complete fine again, ready to fight CP-0
- Yamato just being fine after her fight with Kaido.

So what's Oda's play here? While Sanji, Zoro, Kid, Law and Luffy (even Apoo/Drake) are fighting much harder battles with bigger villains and much further exposition, what do you think these 8 will do if/when the island lands? Did you like the F5 fights? Jack's? Will the BMP actually show up and be a final threat for the crew? Is this why he's left everyone somewhat healthy?

I don't get your point. Zoro vs. Sanji is being set up so obviously it will be the same thing for them too.

Only difference is that F6 are not as plot relevant, and Jack already got his panel time in Zou.

 

[NAMELESS]

Okay, I usually wait until an arc is over to make my bigger criticisms, but I think this one has sat in the oven long enough considering most characters have moved on already from where they were previously.

I'll put it plainly: relative to the Strawhats, I did not like how the F6 and Jack were handled. It's very easy to see why, outside of Black Maria vs Robin, none of them truly felt like hard earned 1v1's that provided established growth for said Strawhat. Just to quickly summarize:

- Usopp vs Page 1 (if we can even call it that), was quickly shafted as a BM hype moment.

- Nami vs Ulti was less so this, but still weakened by BM and provided a powerup from the same character to give Nami a 1 hit win. But I digress, it at least felt better than what Usopp got

- Jinbe vs WsW felt like it was getting good/going somewhere, until it ended before it felt like it should have ended. WsW did virtually nothing to show why he was ever considered Lucci's rival. Nothing to really differentiate his Sabretooth DF from Lucci's leopard one, where the latter showed an insane amount of techniques due to having the benefit of being Luffy's opponent.

- Franky vs Sasaki was the same deal. It was even shorter and it felt like Sasaki just didn't show off as much as he should have. Franky left that fight relatively unscathed since his armor took all of the damage.

- Robin vs Black Maria was fine for the most part. She showed new techniques and I was fine with how the battle played out. I'm also glad she got mostly a solo fight, though it sucks Brook didn't get much either.

- Don't even want to talk about Chopper lol. This was the best opportunity (idk, MAYBE it still comes along but I'm not counting on it)

- Inu vs Jack I GET needed to happen at this point, but it was also laughably shafted when you compare the complete exposure Queen and King have gotten, before and after the moments where Sanji and Zoro started attacking them.


Again, maybe im miraculously wrong here and they all get up, but considering the narrator announced their defeats, I doubt it.

The only other thing I can sort of think of is maybe after the island lands, Oda is saving these 7 strawhats and Yamato to hold off the BMP while the remaining 4 main fights finish (nothing crazy like a 1v1 chapter per strawhat, but just a big exposition over several chapters). Yamato i could see being the one to hold off Smoothie, Jinbe/Franky can fight Snack or Compote, and Brook/Robin/Usopp/Nami/Chopper can take out any number of other enemies with new techniques etc.

It's a better excuse than them fighting pure fodder (discounting the last 4 Numbers), but I'm not counting on that either happening. I just can't really see any explanation for having:


- The crew be relatively healthy for their post Yonko fights
- From those fights, the weakling trio being assisted or removed from their major battles
- Between Jinbe/Brook/Franky, being relatively healthy. Even Robin looks complete fine again, ready to fight CP-0
- Yamato just being fine after her fight with Kaido.

So what's Oda's play here? While Sanji, Zoro, Kid, Law and Luffy (even Apoo/Drake) are fighting much harder battles with bigger villains and much further exposition, what do you think these 8 will do if/when the island lands? Did you like the F5 fights? Jack's? Will the BMP actually show up and be a final threat for the crew? Is this why he's left everyone somewhat healthy?

I think Oda rushed thing because of the pacing issue,Wano is dragging on.I think the anime will add more moves and extend all of this fights by a lot.The Straw Hats fighting BMP is something i theorized and still want to happen.We are getting cp0 fights which is something i saw coming.I think straw hats are fresh enough to even beat the BMP.

 

[AkainuTheGrimReaper]

I think Oda rushed thing because of the pacing issue,Wano is dragging on.I think the anime will add more moves and extend all of this fights by a lot.The Straw Hats fighting BMP is something i theorized and still want to happen.We are getting cp0 fights which is something i saw coming.I think straw hats are fresh enough to even beat the BMP.

I think Big mom pirates will fight other people like cp0, and weaker starwhat crewmate like ussop, nami, carrot, other supernovas pirate crew mate. That is my opinion

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

- Jinbe vs WsW felt like it was getting good/going somewhere, until it ended before it felt like it should have ended. WsW did virtually nothing to show why he was ever considered Lucci's rival. Nothing to really differentiate his Sabretooth DF from Lucci's leopard one, where the latter showed an insane amount of techniques due to having the benefit of being Luffy's opponent.

I agree with this point. If Jinbe does nothing else in the arc, there's no justification for Who's Who v. Jinbe to not have been a more pressing fight. Jinbe is confronted by racism and by a former stooge of the World Government, this definitely had the potential for a clashing of world views more than what happened. Especially given that Who's Who was unceramoniously dropped from the World Government over a failure.

Then you have Who's Who as a character, who openly challenged Jack & King for their positions. There's plenty of interesting interplay here that was never touched upon.

- Franky vs Sasaki was the same deal. It was even shorter and it felt like Sasaki just didn't show off as much as he should have. Franky left that fight relatively unscathed since his armor took all of the damage.

This is easily the worst full on fight of Onigashima. There's zero personality here. Zero stakes. Ends in 1 chapter with maybe 10 panels preceding it to show its "development". I remember the theories that Sasaki would be Kokoro's son and honestly, that would've made for a very fun reveal. Something minimal like that would've made the fight stick out, with maybe Franky telling Sasaki to go home to his kid at the end of the fight.

- Inu vs Jack I GET needed to happen at this point, but it was also laughably shafted when you compare the complete exposure Queen and King have gotten, before and after the moments where Sanji and Zoro started attacking them.

I'll never forgive Oda.

Jack was an absolute menace in Zou, defeated the Sulong Minks and then the regular Minks, only to be virtually off screened. If Inu had to be the one to defeat Jack, the bare minimum Oda could've done is given Jack the Sasaki treatment and given him a chapter to fight. Let alone explore why Jack follows Kaido, what their relationship is, etc.

 

[Paperchampion23]

I don't get your point. Zoro vs. Sanji is being set up so obviously it will be the same thing for them too.

Only difference is that F6 are not as plot relevant, and Jack already got his panel time in Zou.

Not sure I believe this at all. If he was "setting" up for them to fight, he wouldnt be spending 10+ chapters on their fight. Both Zoro and Sanji have already gotten like 2 chapters worth of fighting over the past 10 or so chapters and both don't even seem remotely over at this point.

Not saying it can't happen, but if he were setting it up directly, these fights against King and Queen wouldn't be as long as they are.

 

[Doggo]

- Jinbe vs WsW felt like it was getting good/going somewhere, until it ended before it felt like it should have ended. WsW did virtually nothing to show why he was ever considered Lucci's rival. Nothing to really differentiate his Sabretooth DF from Lucci's leopard one, where the latter showed an insane amount of techniques due to having the benefit of being Luffy's opponent.


Not true.
Whoswho used "flying shigan", which is basically Rankyaku, but piercing damage instead of slashing damage.

 

[Paperchampion23]

They will get wrapped up into their own plotlines

Usopp vs weakened ulti and weakened page one

Jinbe with the fire kanjuro set ablaze

Robin and brook will go for the poneglypth

Etc.

Big mom pirates won’t be defeated by straw hats lmao. It’s straw hats vs beast pirates for a reason.

Also if anything in my opinion killer is fighting smoothie because his captain is fighting big mom.

Yamatos role is the bombs.

Oda will 100% drag out these plot lines

My issue is more that since BM is clearly losing this arc, it's not right that her subordinates aren't either, especially those who still need exposition.

I think the crew being healthy and Apoo/Drake taking over 2/3 CP-0 member fights may point to that as a possibility.

What I'm talking about is the absolute last moments of the arc. These 5 minutes have to be up almost soon, the Kazenbo is going down below the floors and apparently Marco/Izo are going to help against that. I assume that and Yamato taking out the explosives all have to happen at close proximity to when Momo saves the capital, which has to be very soon (i.e. before any other fight finishes)

 

[sanjikun]

Not sure I believe this at all. If he was "setting" up for them to fight, he wouldnt be spending 10+ chapters on their fight. Both Zoro and Sanji have already gotten like 2 chapters worth of fighting over the past 10 or so chapters and both don't even seem remotely over at this point.

Not saying it can't happen, but if he were setting it up directly, these fights against King and Queen wouldn't be as long as they are.

K/Q fights are "long" because they've barely had any panel time up to Onigashima. Jack already had it beforehand. And F6 just aren't relevant enough.

Obviously, Z v. S will happen. That was a major plot point.

 

[Welkin]

Yeah the F6 were handled horribly combat wise

A few of them were fairly interesting characters and had a lot of potential (Ulti and Page One, Who’s Who, etc) but their fights weren’t that good

Say whatever you want about Ulti and Page One but Jack got the worst treatment by far. He was the first billion beri man we met and he really left his mark in Zou, come Wano and pretty much everything involving him is offscreened.

Kaido, King, Queen, Perospero, and Big Mom (kind of) are the only enemies being handled well imo

 

[Fuckthis3]

Damn you still salty about this man welp hope a miracle happens for you

 

[Paperchampion23]

K/Q fights are "long" because they've barely had any panel time up to Onigashima. Jack already had it beforehand. And F6 just aren't relevant enough.

Obviously, Z v. S will happen. That was a major plot point.

It hasn't really been set up beyond one line from Sanji though. We'd need to see how his fight with Queen even ends.

Again though, I agree to an extent. If Oda is looking for the crew to do things beyond their BP fights while the Supernova captains fight the Yonko. I can see Zoro vs Sanji or the other strawhats holding off more than just fodder (ie. The BMP if CP-0 doesn't address that)

Post automatically merged: Nov 21, 2021

Damn you still salty about this man welp hope a miracle happens for you

Most of what I wanted/expected from this arc has already happened/is happening. Yes, I expected Oda to treat high level BP and their strawhat opponents better

 

[Celestial D. Dragon]

Still fully expect every single on of them to get back up. Durability and recovery is supposed to be Zoan's specialty. It'd be pretty suspect if that doesn't come into play AT ALL, during an arc filled with Zoans.

 

[sanjikun]

Still fully expect every single on of them to get back up. Durability and recovery is supposed to be Zoan's specialty. It'd be pretty suspect if that doesn't come into play AT ALL, during an arc filled with Zoans.

Keep expecting. It will never happen. The SHs got their Ws, now they deal with CP0. Oda is not going to reneg on their hard earned wins. That aspect is reserved for awakened users.

I thought awakening would be more common given ID, but so far 3/4 awakened users are CoC users, and the last is a "D".

It seems Vegapunk has messed with their DNA blueprints.

 

[Jackteo]

This is one of the main problems of the war. Every fighter of the alliance is still alive and kicking while the Beast pirates have been reduced to Kaido, King and Queen. Unless they are all going to take part in BM and Kaido's defeat, i don't see why Oda did this.

 

[Paperchampion23]

Still fully expect every single on of them to get back up. Durability and recovery is supposed to be Zoan's specialty. It'd be pretty suspect if that doesn't come into play AT ALL, during an arc filled with Zoans.

Tbh, while at one point while I believed this, the narration of these guys being defeated does it in for me. I mean, it's possible for sure, but I think the marked toughness should have been far better communicated outside of the Queen, King and Kaido have been during their current fights.

It's why I personally think natural progression might mean involving Big Mom's crew now. It's been 50 chapters since we last saw them, which was 50 chapters since we saw them initially arrive in Wano. One thing I've been curious about is where they are currently if Lucci's side doesn't run into them (maybe he does though). If they aren't there, then it might mean they made it up over the Hakumai entrance hours ago and have been following the island since.

Otherwise keeping everybody as healthy as they are is quite baffling tbh. But i guess I see 3 options from this point on:

- They fight fodder and keep running around (highest chance at this point)

- They fight BMP members (with Law and Kid's crews) to prevent them from turning the tide on the battle

- The Beast Pirates get back up miraculously, contrary to the narrator's dialogue.

 

[Uncle Van]

Oda warned it would be that way. He said that he needs at least 2 chapters to give battles the proper attention, but only has the time to give them 1 chapter at most. He also said that his lack of time is why many battles in Wano will be off paneled so that he can focus on the story.

All this means is that Jack and the F6 aren't needed for the story so they got shit on.

 

[Paperchampion23]

Oda warned it would be that way. He said that he needs at least 3 chapters to give battles the proper attention, but only has the time to give them 1 chapter at most. He also said that his lack of time is why many battles in Wano will be off paneled so that he can focus on the story.

All this means is that Jack and the F6 aren't needed for the story so they got shit on.

It is interesting though only because Sasaki and WsW still have dangling plot threads, but Denjiro and CP-0 can address those I guess.

My main concern is why everyone "fine" if you know what I mean (combat ready). Brook is unharmed. So is Franky. Nami and Usopp are ranged fighters so they can continue to do this. Robin is now like...fine again lol. Jinbe was never really being beaten as we saw. And Chopper is really fucking weird rn but I digress.

It's why I'm more prepared to believe he left them healthy so maaaaaybe they can be used to fend off whomever Linlin brought with her. Like it's not a fill army, it's 1 ship of pirates. I can see Luffy, Law and Kid's crews banding together to fight hers. Maybe with the help of some Samurai/Scabbards.

Not really sure, but imo it's better than fodder, even if I don't expect fully drawn out battles. It is the last big hope I have for this arc I guess.