Honestly oden or zoro using conquerors when scarring kaido that’s pretty debatable. Honestly im not really against or pro them using it either way but im personally not interested in lightning scaling
All enma does is release more haki specifically armament. In order to satisfy it itself it pulls out a lot more than most people would be able to handle
Just like any special weapon once you master it you decide when it happens not the other way around. Same way zoro had to better master shusui or sandai to stop them from cutting or destroying more than he wants. Same way zoro is able to stop enma from just pulling out his haki unless he says so. Oden being capable of the same through taming it
Honestly oden or zoro using conquerors when scarring kaido that’s pretty debatable. Honestly im not really against or pro them using it either way but im personally not interested in lightning scaling
All enma does is release more haki specifically armament. In order to satisfy it itself it pulls out a lot more than most people would be able to handle
Just like any special weapon once you master it you decide when it happens not the other way around. Same way zoro had to better master shusui or sandai to stop them from cutting or destroying more than he wants. Same way zoro is able to stop enma from just pulling out his haki unless he says so. Oden being capable of the same through taming it
I said Enma doesn’t have the powers you are giving it… It doesn’t have anything to do with AdvCoC and it doesn’t have the power to give other swords haki
The only stated ability Enma has to sucking up too much Ryuo… that’s it… it doesn’t have a secret power to then multiply your Ryuo across all your swords
And you didn’t even remember how “Taming Enma” works. I don’t know where the stuff your typing came from Because it didn’t come from the manga
Oda wrote a whole useless and boring flashback mid fight to explain how Enma is supposed to be used.
The point of the Flashback is this: Cursed swords are good Actually
That’s it. That’s the thesis of all those pages Oda wasted in the middle of the fight. Kozaburo explains that cursed swords are only just called cursed swords because weakling swordsmen come across these swords they can’t handle and just assume they are cursed because they themselves are too weak to use them
Kozaburo doesn’t believe these swords are cursed because all they are actually doing is killing better. That’s it. Sandai Kitetsu wants to cut as much as possible and THATS GOOD according to Kozaburo. When Zoro was tasting out Enma he just wanted to cut a tree yet Enma forced him to cut the entire cliff side… That’s GOOD, according to Kozaburo, a good sword is the sword that does as much killing and cutting as possible. The more death the sword deals, the better.
yes this is the EXACT opposite of what Koushiro, Kozaburo’s son, taught Zoro about swords but hey, that’s fine, the father and son simply have different sword philosophies. It’s not like Oda ever came out and said Koushiro is the authority on Swordsmanship.
What Zoro had been taught until Wano is a sword cuts only as much as the swordsman wants. That’s how he got Sandai Kitetsu under control. That’s what he did to Enma. From the moment he got Enma to the King fight, he has been doing that “haki regulation” shit to keep Enma under control. He keeps Enma’s suck down just as much as needed for him to use just enough haki for whatever he’s doing.
well, this doesn’t work for Enma. Every other sword required Zoro to control how much he cut but not Enma. Enma works on Kozaburo’s philosophy. You either cut as much as Enma wants you to cut or you fuck off. Enma started wigging out mid king fight because Zoro’s sword philosophy for 1000 chapters was suddenly failing.
Zoro realised the only way of using Enma correctly was to give it as much haki as it wants. But the problem with this outside of the constant haki drain, is that Zoro USES THREE SWORDS
We have seen a demonstration of Zoro using three swords but one sword’s power output scales above the other 2… we saw this with Shusui in Thriller bark… He basically cannot do 3 sword style of his power out put isn’t even across all 3 swords… Zoro got Shusui under control during the time skip (somehow) and we saw him try the same attack post time skip and it worked fine.
Now the problem with Enma is that for Zoro to use it in a 3 sword style, he must raise THE OTHER TWO swords to Enma’s haki output… get it? Enma is sucking him constantly and he’s NOT ALLOWED to stop it, but now he can’t do 3 sword style if he doesn’t balance the power across all his swords…
So Zoro HAS TO GIVE HIS OTHER SWORDS AS MUCH HAKI AS ENMA IS SUCKING
Zoro is basically TRIPLING the Enma suck just to remain functional in battle with Enma. Specifically in KoH mode that is.
Enma is sucking as much haki as it wants, and Zoro is giving the rest of his swords as much haki as Enma is sucking EACH to make sure they are all balanced… hence why Zoro is the only person in the entire OP universe to ever say he’ll die from Haki exhaustion. There is no other character who has ever said using haki can kill them besides Zoro, and he’s the reason why.
And as you’ve probably noticed, this logic applies to Oden too. Oden is described as using Enma as light as a feather. Which is a big feat, but note that, Oden DOES NOT HAVE 3 swords… However good Oden’s haki is, he only had to DOUBLE Enma’s Suck, he didn’t have to Triple it, like Zoro does
And before you start rioting in the streets, relax, Oden might still have had greater haki reserves if we are going by quantity, he was just NOT using as much as KoH as a time because he’s not having to triple his output like Zoro.
A lot of people read disregard the fact we were straight up told enma is how oden scarred kaido. Mainly being because the scar has to intersecting slashes for each blade
Yes oden is obviously strong and him needing enma doesn’t diminish his strength. Him mastering it is a reflection of how strong he really is. By default same applies to zoro
It’s straight up said even with enma draining so much haki from oden he was casually able to wield it
Same amount zoro currently struggles to keep up for long
Koh is basically zoro releasing the same amount of haki through 3 swords instead of 2 like oden
Zoro straight up said that enma specifically was killing him the longer he used koh. So even tho he’s using 3 swords he’s only capable of doing it because of enma. Same applies to oden and his 2
Both oden and zoro need enma in order to exclude that much haki
We were straight up told it’s because of enma oden scarred kaido
Downplaying them by acknowledging they they mastered a strong weapon most people couldn’t
Saying I down play oden when I put him equal to kaido and over Rayleigh is kinda wild
It’s straight up said even with enma draining so much haki from oden he was casually able to wield it
Same amount zoro currently struggles to keep up for long
Koh is basically zoro releasing the same amount of haki through 3 swords instead of 2 like oden
Zoro straight up said that enma specifically was killing him the longer he used koh. So even tho he’s using 3 swords he’s only capable of doing it because of enma. Same applies to oden and his 2
Both oden and zoro need enma in order to exclude that much haki
We were straight up told it’s because of enma oden scarred kaido
Downplaying them by acknowledging they they mastered a strong weapon most people couldn’t
Saying I down play oden when I put him equal to kaido and over Rayleigh is kinda wild
It's funny that you're going all "I didn't downplay them! That's wild!" when I didn't even claim you were downplaying them in my one line post in which I didn't say anything that you aren't still claiming yourself. You just know that you are downplaying them.
But, if you want to go there: yes, you're downplaying them both. What you're poorly attempting to do is known in debates as a concession.
- Here's the concession: "B-but I said they mastered a strong weapon, I'm acknowledging that merit", yes, you did giver them that.
- Here's your real argument: "All the merit of their haki that scarred Kaido comes from Enma, even the haki they released through other swords", there's the heavy downplay.
You know what you're doing, everyone knows. Keep doing the Oden dance for Ldule, Lerkan and Lootbeer and stop quoting me with nonsense.
And, by the way, I know your headcanon can't handle it, but Enma didn't drain Oden like it drained Zoro. Enma drains the swordsmen who wield it because it holds them to Oden's standards. That's what a cursed blade is: it didn't just randomly start draining people after it was forged, cursed blades are just blades with an attitude and expectations caught from some previous user that are mistaken as cursed by the ignorant.
It's funny that you're going all "I didn't downplay them! That's wild!" when I didn't even claim you were downplaying them in my one line post in which I didn't say anything that you aren't still claiming yourself. You just know that you are downplaying them.
But, if you want to go there: yes, you're downplaying them both. What you're poorly attempting to do is known in debates as a concession.
- Here's the concession: "B-but I said they mastered a strong weapon, I'm acknowledging that merit", yes, you did giver them that.
- Here's your real argument: "All the merit of their haki that scarred Kaido comes from Enma, even the haki they released through other swords", there's the heavy downplay.
You know what you're doing, everyone knows. Keep doing the Oden dance for Ldule, Lerkan and Lootbeer and stop quoting me with nonsense.
And, by the way, I know your headcanon can't handle it, but Enma didn't drain Oden like it drained Zoro. Enma drains the swordsmen who wield it because it holds them to Oden's standards. That's what a cursed blade is: it didn't just randomly start draining people after it was forged, cursed blades are just blades with an attitude and expectations caught from some previous user that are mistaken as cursed by the ignorant.
Slandering and downplay are pretty much the same in this scenario
You need to be strong in order to master a strong weapon
A strong weapon needs someone strong enough to properly use it
It’s not enma is strong and oden is weak or oden is strong and enma is weak. Both are strong
Being able to use a strong weapon is a reflection of the user’s strength
Headcanon aka the first panel of the first page I sent lol
Zoro says enma did the same to oden. Oden was just able to handle it easier. Enma had high standards from its inception. Oden was just able to meet them
All cursed blades we’ve seen are difficult to master to different extent and each have a unique trait/power. Enma unique trait and dangerous attitude being hyped the most so far
At the beginning of the arc, we've already been teasered by CoC Oden as his big trick
After Kaido got the scar from Zoro he immediately thought of CoC despite the lack of visual indicators
This scene can be interpreted differently depending on your agenda, but either way CoC is related to Kaido's scarring in one way or another.
And in the conclusion of chapter 1010, it is revealed to us that even ID-CoA only does minor damage to Kaido and only CoC is able to damage him well
This is right after the scene where Kaido asks Zoro about CoC
And even though the emphasis was on the enma, imo only because it was Zoro's sword and his training tool.
The most you can say is that the enma taught Zoro to release large amounts of haki that we haven't seen from him before but nothing more.
At the beginning of the arc, we've already been teasered by CoC Oden as his big trick
After Kaido got the scar from Zoro he immediately thought of CoC despite the lack of visual indicators
This scene can be interpreted differently depending on your agenda, but either way CoC is related to Kaido's scarring in one way or another.
And in the conclusion of chapter 1010, it is revealed to us that even ID-CoA only does minor damage to Kaido and only CoC is able to damage him well
This is right after the scene where Kaido asks Zoro about CoC
And even though the emphasis was on the enma, imo only because it was Zoro's sword and his training tool.
The most you can say is that the enma taught Zoro to release large amounts of haki that we haven't seen from him before but nothing more.
My only “issue” with it being conquerors being the reason why is
There aren’t any real visual indicators that it’s being used. Tho if you think there are fine I don’t really like debating lightning haki
Kaido has fought many conquerors with blades with none able to scar him
Enma in cases of both scars recieved the most attention. Hiyori outright saying her father scarred kaido because of enma. Enma glowing right before zoro scarred him next
Yes zoro had to train with it to get stronger but it isn’t really just a training tool. Neither oden or zoro would be able to release as much haki without it. Zoro wouldn’t have access to king of hell aka enma mode without it. Him being able to do that due to his strength and mastery over the weapon
A lot of people read disregard the fact we were straight up told enma is how oden scarred kaido. Mainly being because the scar has to intersecting slashes for each blade
And yes while oden very obviously used both of his swords while cutting kaido he wouldn’t have been able to do as much as he did without enma
Same way zoro using enma is capable of exuding the haki throughout all his swords oden was capable of the same just more casually
That doesn’t change the fact oden was extremely powerful and had to be to use enma to its fullest but again without it he’s not doing as much. Swap out enma for wado and man is definitely doing less. Give him nidai and enma tho and his output would probably be insane
Probably at best doing as much as his retainers version of his attack without it
So basically
Kaido is just that tough
Enma is 2 for 2 when it comes to swords that scarred kaido
Yes oden is obviously strong and him needing enma doesn’t diminish his strength. Him mastering it is a reflection of how strong he really is. By default same applies to zoro
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