Questions & Mysteries Old Gen Marines seem a lot strongee than current Marines
- Thread starter ShishioIsBack
- Start date
If a top tier lets himself get sneak attacked by a geriatric geezer on life support with 2 humongous hole in his chest then sorry, thats on him. No excuse whatsoever.
WB was in way worse condition than Garp and he did better. Garp did not need excessive medical treatment to even make it to Beehive, unlike WB who barely got up from his chair anymore before fighting the Admirals.
WB was in way worse condition than Garp and he did better. Garp did not need excessive medical treatment to even make it to Beehive, unlike WB who barely got up from his chair anymore before fighting the Admirals.
Sengoku has never been portrayed similarly to Garp, there's no real reason to believe he was anything more than Akainu (standard admiral) level.
Garp is the hero of the marines with the D name, main characters grandfather and father to the most wanted man in the world. He fought at God valley and went after the pirate king. His notable trainees included Aokiji and Koby.
Sengoku is a desk jockey strategist whose only notable feat was taking down Shiki with the help of Garp. He was wrapped up in bandages after 2v1ing pre-TS Blackbeard. His trainee subordinates are Corozan and X-Drake.
There is absolutely no comparison between the two.
Aside from Garp, the new gen marines are about the same as Sengoku but the marines are stronger because there are more of them.
Garp is the hero of the marines with the D name, main characters grandfather and father to the most wanted man in the world. He fought at God valley and went after the pirate king. His notable trainees included Aokiji and Koby.
Sengoku is a desk jockey strategist whose only notable feat was taking down Shiki with the help of Garp. He was wrapped up in bandages after 2v1ing pre-TS Blackbeard. His trainee subordinates are Corozan and X-Drake.
There is absolutely no comparison between the two.
Aside from Garp, the new gen marines are about the same as Sengoku but the marines are stronger because there are more of them.
Keep in mind Garp fought Roger COUNTLESS times, he had time to fight the very best over different stages in time, also you could use the whole age excuse like people constantly do Roger didn't become PK until he was in his 40s letting Garp and Sengoku train for a large period of time, capture other strong pirates, etc.
Don't understand how you can read the battle at Hachinosu and reach this conclusion tbh. Hell, slander Kizaru for looking garbage against Luffy that's fine but If the battle at Hachinosu has taught us something then it's that Garp/Sengoku and the C3 were more or less on the same level in their primes.
The C3 are all DF reliant fighters. Garp's brawling is all he has got. He's old but completely healthy and relatively fit. Let's exaggerate and say he was only at 50% of his prime's strength against Kuzan, that would still make Kuzan look far better than Garp considering they were brawling only on panel. That ain't even what Kuzan is all about yet he can dish out some heavy punches equal to some of Garp's.
Endurance wise both seemed evenly matched and without the interference of Shiryu it would've been a long 1v1 battle.
The fact that Kuzan can contest with Garp in a fist fight already puts the two extremely close when Kuzan has got a broken Logia on top of that.
So Sengoku and Garp (if at all) marginally stronger than C3 but quite a bit stronger than the new Admirals.
The C3 are all DF reliant fighters. Garp's brawling is all he has got. He's old but completely healthy and relatively fit. Let's exaggerate and say he was only at 50% of his prime's strength against Kuzan, that would still make Kuzan look far better than Garp considering they were brawling only on panel. That ain't even what Kuzan is all about yet he can dish out some heavy punches equal to some of Garp's.
Endurance wise both seemed evenly matched and without the interference of Shiryu it would've been a long 1v1 battle.
The fact that Kuzan can contest with Garp in a fist fight already puts the two extremely close when Kuzan has got a broken Logia on top of that.
So Sengoku and Garp (if at all) marginally stronger than C3 but quite a bit stronger than the new Admirals.
Don't understand how you can read the battle at Hachinosu and reach this conclusion tbh. Hell, slander Kizaru for looking garbage against Luffy that's fine but If the battle at Hachinosu has taught us something then it's that Garp/Sengoku and the C3 were more or less on the same level in their primes.
The C3 are all DF reliant fighters. Garp's brawling is all he has got. He's old but completely healthy and relatively fit. Let's exaggerate and say he was only at 50% of his prime's strength against Kuzan, that would still make Kuzan look far better than Garp considering they were brawling only on panel. That ain't even what Kuzan is all about yet he can dish out some heavy punches equal to some of Garp's.
Endurance wise both seemed evenly matched and without the interference of Shiryu it would've been a long 1v1 battle.
The fact that Kuzan can contest with Garp in a fist fight already puts the two extremely close when Kuzan has got a broken Logia on top of that.
So Sengoku and Garp (if at all) marginally stronger than C3 but quite a bit stronger than the new Admirals.
The C3 are all DF reliant fighters. Garp's brawling is all he has got. He's old but completely healthy and relatively fit. Let's exaggerate and say he was only at 50% of his prime's strength against Kuzan, that would still make Kuzan look far better than Garp considering they were brawling only on panel. That ain't even what Kuzan is all about yet he can dish out some heavy punches equal to some of Garp's.
Endurance wise both seemed evenly matched and without the interference of Shiryu it would've been a long 1v1 battle.
The fact that Kuzan can contest with Garp in a fist fight already puts the two extremely close when Kuzan has got a broken Logia on top of that.
So Sengoku and Garp (if at all) marginally stronger than C3 but quite a bit stronger than the new Admirals.
I only disagree with the end; the new admirals or at least in Fujitoras's case seems to have a very strong will and in One Piece everything is about will and nothing else; Fujitora does what he wants when he wants as he has shown numerous times now, even going as far as ''opposing'' the CDs in their own country.
In Greenbull's case, it seems at first that he is just a ''brat''; he fanboys, he is insolent, and backs off from seemingly stronger than him. BUT, we don't know his drive, we don't know why he backed off from WifiShanks ( we know that the Rathaired has special affiliation with ''almost'' Imu), and we know he has a hax DF so I would wait for more info before throwing Greenbull away.
All and all the strength difference is marginal through the ''generations''.
S
I disagree, the narrative requires that the marines of this period be much stronger than the previous ones so that the protagonist can overcome challenges that the previous PK king would not be able to, and thus surpass him. It's like the basic DBZ logic of higher levels.
Kizaru > Garp
GB > Garp
Akainu > Roger
Kizaru > Garp
GB > Garp
Akainu > Roger
Hachinosu showed Prime Garp was in an entirely different planet from the C3. Old Garp was ragdolling Kuzan for fun and Kuzan needed the backup of half a Yonko crew to take him down.
This is an excuse made for Kuzan without much bearing in reality.
Garp vs Kuzan is the only time we have seen him have an extended one vs one. It’s also the only time we’ve actually seen Kuzan fight a top tier for more than a few seconds. Kuzan’s other fights are
-pre-EL M3. Obviously not a serious fight.
-flashback fight with Saul from decades ago when he’s a VA. Not really reflective of the present day, also was only like two pages with Saul running away.
-fight with Jozu. Mostly off-panelled, ended with freezing distracted Jozu. I don’t think we ever see them properly exchange any attacks.
-one page clash with Whitebeard. Failed to freeze him, tried to attack from mid range.
-fight with Ace where Ace clashed equally with him
-Akainu, totally offpanelled.
-freezing Doffy, who broke out.
-freezing some of the BB Pirates offscreen
Garp’s fight is the longest one Kuzan has had, it’s the most difficult one Kuzan has had and it’s the only one he’s had where there’s been any extended CQC. It also comes with flashback telling us that Garp has trained Kuzan in punching.
What does DF reliant fighter actually mean in the context of how Kuzan fights? It’s an assumption without any supporting evidence to make that Kuzan doesn’t actually punch in a fight, or was somehow restricting himself against Garp. How else do people think he actually fights in CQC combat? His freezing moves that haven’t worked on Whitebeard, Garp or Doffy? Ice Saber, which the pre- EL M3 dealt with? All his other attacks shown are from mid to long range and, tbh, haven’t ever shown to be especially impressive.
Ice Glove is, by a considerable distance, Kuzan’s best feat. As things stand, far more reason to believe that when he was fighting Akainu, he was trying to punch him. Not standing thirty yards away from him tossing Pheasant Pecks.
Based on what lol? Without the interference of Shiryu Garp was blitzing the everlasting fuck out of Kuzan and tossing him around the island for fun. While still having time to fight the other YCs that were around.
And again, this is an old man who says he’s old everytime he fights. Not much bearing on what Garp in his prime could do.
Garp easily dealt with that supposedly broken Logia’s only broken ability, the freezing. So did Whitebeard, and even Doffy managed it.
What’s actually broken about Kuzan’s DF other than that, which is basically just fodder clearing? The only other thing he’s done is throw bladed ice at people.
And this was old Garp, who everytime he fights has Oda pointing out he’s old and not anywhere as strong as he used to be. Whereas funnily, he never had anyone say that Kuzan was somehow restricting himself. Not only that, it’s Garp post Shiryu stab, where Oda has fodder shout not just once, but twice in the space of two consecutive pages, that Garp has been weakened.
Prime Garp in a one vs one is demolishing every one of the C3. Just look at what we have.
Akainu’s needing Whitebeard to be old, stabbed and taking heart attacks to put up a fight.
his near perfect equal Kuzan is needing Garp to be old, stabbed and badly outnumbered to put up a fight.
Kizaru’s needing to run the hell away from G5 because one straight punch is knocking him down for the count.
Every Admiral really needs to step up their game, not just the new ones. As things stand, Akainu is looking mid-diff at best to the likes of Roger, Primebeard, Kaido or Garp, Kuzan is being carried to mid-diff only by his portrayal showing he’s equal to Akainu and Kizaru just looks an outright low diff.
These guys need to show a lot more, and to be honest, it’s looking like the best the Admiral will be doing is mid-diff, with Akainu being the only hope of getting to high and maybe extreme.
Sengoku’s just a big question mark right now. I don’t think the Roger quote really says all that much since we don’t know enough about the state of the Marines at the time. If there are two other decently strong Admirals it says a fair deal, if there aren’t it just means the Marines at the time were very weak with Garp and Sengoku being the only ones worth anything among them. Kong I don’t think will ever do anything.
This is an excuse made for Kuzan without much bearing in reality.
Garp vs Kuzan is the only time we have seen him have an extended one vs one. It’s also the only time we’ve actually seen Kuzan fight a top tier for more than a few seconds. Kuzan’s other fights are
-pre-EL M3. Obviously not a serious fight.
-flashback fight with Saul from decades ago when he’s a VA. Not really reflective of the present day, also was only like two pages with Saul running away.
-fight with Jozu. Mostly off-panelled, ended with freezing distracted Jozu. I don’t think we ever see them properly exchange any attacks.
-one page clash with Whitebeard. Failed to freeze him, tried to attack from mid range.
-fight with Ace where Ace clashed equally with him
-Akainu, totally offpanelled.
-freezing Doffy, who broke out.
-freezing some of the BB Pirates offscreen
Garp’s fight is the longest one Kuzan has had, it’s the most difficult one Kuzan has had and it’s the only one he’s had where there’s been any extended CQC. It also comes with flashback telling us that Garp has trained Kuzan in punching.
What does DF reliant fighter actually mean in the context of how Kuzan fights? It’s an assumption without any supporting evidence to make that Kuzan doesn’t actually punch in a fight, or was somehow restricting himself against Garp. How else do people think he actually fights in CQC combat? His freezing moves that haven’t worked on Whitebeard, Garp or Doffy? Ice Saber, which the pre- EL M3 dealt with? All his other attacks shown are from mid to long range and, tbh, haven’t ever shown to be especially impressive.
Ice Glove is, by a considerable distance, Kuzan’s best feat. As things stand, far more reason to believe that when he was fighting Akainu, he was trying to punch him. Not standing thirty yards away from him tossing Pheasant Pecks.
Based on what lol? Without the interference of Shiryu Garp was blitzing the everlasting fuck out of Kuzan and tossing him around the island for fun. While still having time to fight the other YCs that were around.
And again, this is an old man who says he’s old everytime he fights. Not much bearing on what Garp in his prime could do.
Garp easily dealt with that supposedly broken Logia’s only broken ability, the freezing. So did Whitebeard, and even Doffy managed it.
What’s actually broken about Kuzan’s DF other than that, which is basically just fodder clearing? The only other thing he’s done is throw bladed ice at people.
And this was old Garp, who everytime he fights has Oda pointing out he’s old and not anywhere as strong as he used to be. Whereas funnily, he never had anyone say that Kuzan was somehow restricting himself. Not only that, it’s Garp post Shiryu stab, where Oda has fodder shout not just once, but twice in the space of two consecutive pages, that Garp has been weakened.
Prime Garp in a one vs one is demolishing every one of the C3. Just look at what we have.
Akainu’s needing Whitebeard to be old, stabbed and taking heart attacks to put up a fight.
his near perfect equal Kuzan is needing Garp to be old, stabbed and badly outnumbered to put up a fight.
Kizaru’s needing to run the hell away from G5 because one straight punch is knocking him down for the count.
Every Admiral really needs to step up their game, not just the new ones. As things stand, Akainu is looking mid-diff at best to the likes of Roger, Primebeard, Kaido or Garp, Kuzan is being carried to mid-diff only by his portrayal showing he’s equal to Akainu and Kizaru just looks an outright low diff.
These guys need to show a lot more, and to be honest, it’s looking like the best the Admiral will be doing is mid-diff, with Akainu being the only hope of getting to high and maybe extreme.
Sengoku’s just a big question mark right now. I don’t think the Roger quote really says all that much since we don’t know enough about the state of the Marines at the time. If there are two other decently strong Admirals it says a fair deal, if there aren’t it just means the Marines at the time were very weak with Garp and Sengoku being the only ones worth anything among them. Kong I don’t think will ever do anything.
C
Every time an admiral fought, oda made sure to give them a condition in which they couldn't go all out .
Marineford, dressrosa, mariejoa and egghead.
You meant: old garp hakiman LOSING on a HAKI CLASH to an admiral whose primary source of power is his fruit, right?
Lol, garp lost the haki clash to kuzan and the only speedblitz he did was against pizarro.
Marineford, dressrosa, mariejoa and egghead.
Post automatically merged:
You meant: old garp hakiman LOSING on a HAKI CLASH to an admiral whose primary source of power is his fruit, right?
Post automatically merged:
Lol, garp lost the haki clash to kuzan and the only speedblitz he did was against pizarro.
@ShishioIsBack New gen is not weak.
Old gen just had some Fleet Admiral outliers
Old gen just had some Fleet Admiral outliers
Kuzan "needed" nothing there. He was completely capable to handle Garp as he was there. The other pirates don't have to follow an honorary code and let Garp and Kuzan duel it out. Besides, Kuzan himself stated that the pirates couldn't even come close to killing Garp and if u think that only applies to the fodder then let me remind you how Garp treated Sanjuan and Vasco...as irrelevant fodder which they are to him.
And no. That battle definitely brought Prime Garp and the C3 closer in strength.
Nothing about that is an excuse when we have seen the aftermath of the battle between two of the C3 go all out. Just based off of the island they left behind we can conclude that Kuzan was not using all he has got because his abilities are said to not only change the climate but completely terraform the entire island. Hard to do that when your comrades are on the same island you're fighting in.
The constant denial that Kuzan wasn't keeping any of his Logia powers back has no bearing on reality. Once we see an Admiral go all out on panel that argument as well will get shattered.
In all those examples Kuzan is either fighting an inferior where he barely shows anything or it's just one short clash with no follow up.
Ice ball is one of Kuzan’s bottom tier attacks, so is his flash freezing. Another point in favour of Kuzan not having shown even close to his entire arsenal while Garp did.
Great. Another point in favour of the C3 being much closer to Prime Garp than previously assumed. The major and biggest dig against the Admirals were their lacking physical abilities. Strength, Stamina, Endurance and Durability. Now we know better. Kuzan was trained by Garp as a brawler, he adopted that fighting style and has shown that he can dish out as well as take some of Garp's punches.
Kuzan is a mini Garp while having an entire arsenal of his own abilities.
A DF reliant fighter is someone that at his strongest uses abilities given by said fruit.
What was the attack that finished off Garp ?
Was it a punch or an Ice spear ?
What caused all this damage on Punk Hazard, was it a punch or DF usage ?
Did Kuzan and Sakazuki transform the island into their respective elements because it had no meaningful usage in their 1v1 whatsoever? Or are you going to claim that Kuzan wasn't serious against Akainu and held his real strength the punches back ?
Lastly, what caused this damage on Akainu. Was it a punch or Kuzan’s DF?
I would like to highlight that Kuzan’s freezing was so severe that it literally scarred a man made out of LAVA/MAGMA.
If you sit there and actually tell me I'm not connected with reality and Ice ball is the extent to Kuzan’s abilities using the hie hie no mi then we might as well not debate at all because it's just nonsense to me.
Exactly. That's why he had half of an island transformed into his element because it had absolutely no use!
Beautiful reasoning!
Great. Not taking it away from Garp that he blitzed Kuzan twice. So what damage did he do?
Look at u immediately playing the age card. Apologies but Garp may be old but is still completely healthy and as of recent was in active duty.
Brannew confirmed that to the day of his loss at Hachinosu he was still training and keeping himself fit.
According to Garp's own words he has Lost his edge not that he's completely incomparable to his prime self.
Evidence suggests Old healthy Garp is actually pretty damn close to Prime Garp, close enough to entertain how Kuzan would fair against him in a fist fight only let alone when he's using all of his abilities...oh I forgot punching is everything Kuzan got.
I wonder how he out a scar on Akainu, rip his skin off ?
And any person that isn't biased against the Admirals would result from this that the attacks mentioned are merely fodder cleansing attacks and not even remotely the extent to what Kuzan can do lmao. You're giving yourself the answer here.
Stop lying. If anything he has made clear that Garp is not exactly as strong as his Prime version. That he is nowhere near it is headcanon Bullshit Admiral haters have been spreading to put Garp on a pedestal where he never belonged in the first place and Hachinosu has proven that.
At best Prime Garp is a slightly stronger Akainu.
But he did show the aftermath of Punk Hazard thankfully, do you always need the obvious spelled out ?
And the man himself had that to say to the injury.
So let's sum up Garp's statements:
- "My strength has been declining lately!"
- "I've lost my edge!"
- "It’s nothing!"
So who was right ? The irrelevant fodder or the man himself ?
if you assume Garp was bluffing, based on what ?
did Oda confirm it since you want everything spelled out by Oda?
Show it to me. If you're a fan of the character I would appreciate if you at least take his own words and don't spin it in a million ways so that it fits your agenda.
Maybe in your headcanon.
Agenda driven nonsense, not even worth responding too.
Just a bit more nonsense out of you, seems like you're on a roll today. The one that needs to step up his game his Prime Garp. I'm really praying for some impressive feats because as it stands you could really entertain fruitless Kuzan pushing Old Garp to extreme diff.
Naturally his superior Akainu would be more than an equal challenge to the Prime version, superior even.
If u say so
Oh so do statements only mean anything when they fit right into how strong you want characters to be ?
And no. That battle definitely brought Prime Garp and the C3 closer in strength.
Nothing about that is an excuse when we have seen the aftermath of the battle between two of the C3 go all out. Just based off of the island they left behind we can conclude that Kuzan was not using all he has got because his abilities are said to not only change the climate but completely terraform the entire island. Hard to do that when your comrades are on the same island you're fighting in.
The constant denial that Kuzan wasn't keeping any of his Logia powers back has no bearing on reality. Once we see an Admiral go all out on panel that argument as well will get shattered.
In all those examples Kuzan is either fighting an inferior where he barely shows anything or it's just one short clash with no follow up.
Ice ball is one of Kuzan’s bottom tier attacks, so is his flash freezing. Another point in favour of Kuzan not having shown even close to his entire arsenal while Garp did.
Great. Another point in favour of the C3 being much closer to Prime Garp than previously assumed. The major and biggest dig against the Admirals were their lacking physical abilities. Strength, Stamina, Endurance and Durability. Now we know better. Kuzan was trained by Garp as a brawler, he adopted that fighting style and has shown that he can dish out as well as take some of Garp's punches.
Kuzan is a mini Garp while having an entire arsenal of his own abilities.
A DF reliant fighter is someone that at his strongest uses abilities given by said fruit.
What was the attack that finished off Garp ?
Was it a punch or an Ice spear ?
Lastly, what caused this damage on Akainu. Was it a punch or Kuzan’s DF?
If you sit there and actually tell me I'm not connected with reality and Ice ball is the extent to Kuzan’s abilities using the hie hie no mi then we might as well not debate at all because it's just nonsense to me.
Exactly. That's why he had half of an island transformed into his element because it had absolutely no use!
Beautiful reasoning!
Great. Not taking it away from Garp that he blitzed Kuzan twice. So what damage did he do?
Look at u immediately playing the age card. Apologies but Garp may be old but is still completely healthy and as of recent was in active duty.
Brannew confirmed that to the day of his loss at Hachinosu he was still training and keeping himself fit.
According to Garp's own words he has Lost his edge not that he's completely incomparable to his prime self.
Evidence suggests Old healthy Garp is actually pretty damn close to Prime Garp, close enough to entertain how Kuzan would fair against him in a fist fight only let alone when he's using all of his abilities...oh I forgot punching is everything Kuzan got.
I wonder how he out a scar on Akainu, rip his skin off ?
And any person that isn't biased against the Admirals would result from this that the attacks mentioned are merely fodder cleansing attacks and not even remotely the extent to what Kuzan can do lmao. You're giving yourself the answer here.
Stop lying. If anything he has made clear that Garp is not exactly as strong as his Prime version. That he is nowhere near it is headcanon Bullshit Admiral haters have been spreading to put Garp on a pedestal where he never belonged in the first place and Hachinosu has proven that.
At best Prime Garp is a slightly stronger Akainu.
But he did show the aftermath of Punk Hazard thankfully, do you always need the obvious spelled out ?
And the man himself had that to say to the injury.
- "My strength has been declining lately!"
- "I've lost my edge!"
- "It’s nothing!"
So who was right ? The irrelevant fodder or the man himself ?
if you assume Garp was bluffing, based on what ?
did Oda confirm it since you want everything spelled out by Oda?
Show it to me. If you're a fan of the character I would appreciate if you at least take his own words and don't spin it in a million ways so that it fits your agenda.
Maybe in your headcanon.
Agenda driven nonsense, not even worth responding too.
Just a bit more nonsense out of you, seems like you're on a roll today. The one that needs to step up his game his Prime Garp. I'm really praying for some impressive feats because as it stands you could really entertain fruitless Kuzan pushing Old Garp to extreme diff.
Naturally his superior Akainu would be more than an equal challenge to the Prime version, superior even.
If u say so
Oh so do statements only mean anything when they fit right into how strong you want characters to be ?
Last edited:
Kuzan started the fight using his DF powers, which were ineffective against Garp, with Garp saying that Kuzan shouldn't hesitate. When getting serious, Aokiji switched to CqC and brawling. Against an old Garp who had his stomach pierced. In this context, brawling was probably more effective against Garp, as he could just dispel the ice.