Spoiler One Piece Chapter 1015 Spoilers Discussion

Is Pan D. A Man Moe?

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Cinera

Cinera

𝐀𝐬𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐌𝐚𝐬𝐜𝐡𝐞𝐧𝐧𝐲 𝐏𝐞𝐭
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#3,564
#3,564
Kuro Ashi said:
Another new crewmember candidate that looks stronger and Sanji has no hope of ending up above

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Doggo said:
Dude come on....
I like Yamato as well, but are we REALLY doing "character X new M3 member" thing AGAIN?
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I don't use that logic. I'm not reasoning that Yamato is > Sanji because she'll join the crew.

Me thinking Yamato is > Sanji has nothing to do with me thinking she'll join the crew.

In fairness, my median estimate of Yamato places her in the same bracket as Rooftop Zoro. If she surpasses my expectations, I would place her above Rooftop Zoro on my tier list.

In particular, if Yamato can push Kaido to use Awakening or gives Hybrid Kaido a high difficulty fight, I would place her above Rooftop Zoro and 1010 Luffy in my tier list.

For an explanation of my logic, see below:
Cinera said:
I'd like to explain where I'm coming from on Yamato.

I think Base Yamato's feats already merit a placement of at least Jack level and probably even above him (I strongly doubt that Jack can oneshot a Tobi Roppo), but I'm a crazy Yamato wanker and I'm probably overestimating her, so let's say that Base Yamato is Jack level.

Yamato's Devil Fruit was hidden for a reveal vs Kaido, so it is very likely (I'd personally give >= 75% chances) to be a Mythical Zoan.

All out Yamato should be thus above Queen, but if you want to downplay her, you can say that her current fights only justify Queen level (Mid High Tier).


Now let's talk about the implications of Yamato's fight with Kaido.

Post WCI Luffy got no diffed by Base Kaido. I consider it a no difficulty fight because:
  • Luffy did ZERO damage.
  • Luffy was oneshot with a single named technique.
  • Kaido was barely sober and seemingly out of it, so he wasn't exerting himself.
I have Post WCI Luffy at High High Tier (Katakuri) level. These characters get no diffed in a 1 vs 1 with Kaido or at best defeated at the lower ends of low difficulty.

If Yamato gets no diffed, then I would place her below Post WCI Luffy (Luffy could not use Future Sight when he lost to Kaido). She'll remain in my Mid High Tier. In that case, I can see End of Wano Sanji being above her.


If Yamato can push Base Kaido to low difficulty:
  • Deal at least slight damage
    • Draw blood from him
    • Leave him with bruises
    • E.g. Red Roc
    • E.g. Law's Injection Shot
  • Handle at least one named attack)
    • She can dodge, block or tank a Thunder Bagua
    • She can dodge, block or tank a Rag Naraku
    • This is more impressive if the attacks are enhanced with COC.
Then she's anywhere from slightly above Post WCI Luffy to being slightly stronger than Chapter 1000 Luffy (High High Tier [+] to Peak High Tier [+]).


If Yamato can push Base Kaido to medium difficulty:
  • Deal noticeable damage:
    • A few Red Roc level attacks
  • Handle a few named techniques
    • This is more impressive if the attacks are enhanced with COC.
  • Spar with Kaido for a while
    • Preferably more than 10 minutes
    • This is more impressive if the attacks are enhanced with COC.
Then she's slightly to significantly above Chapter 1000 Luffy (an inbetweener). If I was to add a "Bottom Top Tier", this is where she would slot in.


If Yamato can push Base Kaido to high difficulty:
  • Deal significant damage:
    • At least of the calibre of Zoro's "Asura Sword-Drawing: Jest of the Dead".
  • Handle several named techniques
    • They must be enhanced with Haoshoku.
  • Spar with Kaido for a while
    • At least several tens of minutes
      • Up to a few hours
    • They must be enhanced with Haoshoku.
Or if Yamato can push Hybrid Kaido to medium difficulty (same criteria I defined earlier).

Depending on the level of high difficulty, she ranges from Low Top Tier - Mid Top Tier [-].


If she can push Hybrid Kaido to high difficulty or if Kaido requires his Awakening to beat her, then she's a Mid Top Tier [+?].

I wouldn't consider any higher difficulty scenarios as I think they are very unlikely (<= 10% chances).


Now that Sanji is fighting Queen, I think End of Wano Sanji caps at High High Tier (Katakuri level). If I wanted to be needlessly generous, I could say perhaps High High Tier [+].


I feel like at this point, Yamato is probably going to be pushing Kaido to at least medium difficulty.

When Kaido tries to strike her with a Thunder Bagua, she'll either dodge it, block it, tank it or more likely match it with her own Thunder Bagua.

I expect that we'll see her using Haoshoku to enhance her own attacks. If this is not an ability she's already capable of, it's one that she'll unlock. Enhancing your attacks is an ability that Kaido said "only a handful of the very strongest possess":


Displaying this ability is unequivocal Top Tier portrayal.


But more than that, we haven't even seen Yamato's Devil Fruit. I'm expecting that when Kaido transforms into Hybrid, Yamato will as well (or vice versa).

So my median estimate for Yamato's performance vs Kaido places her at around Low Top Tier.

I think Low Top Tier characters beat Peak High Tier characters at solid medium difficulty, and High High Tier characters at the higher ends of low difficulty or lower ends of medium difficulty.


For reference purposes:
  • I have Marco at Peak High Tier
  • I have Chapter 1000 Luffy at Peak High Tier [+] and by Chapter 1009 he may have become an inbetweener (Bottom Top Tier).
  • I have Rooftop Zoro at Low Top Tier to Low Top Tier [+].
    • A current healthy Zoro is a bit of an unknown.
  • I have 1010 Luffy at Low Top Tier [+] to Mid Top Tier [-].

Anyway, this was a longwinded explanation to essentially say that:
  • I expect Yamato to show herself to be considerably stronger than Sanji in her fight against Kaido.
  • I think the gap is quite big.
    • My median estimate is that End of Wano Yamato beats End of Wano Sanji at the lower ends of medium difficulty.
    • It's big enough that even if Yamato joined the crew, I don't think Sanji can close the gap between them anytime soon.

@Kuro Ashi: there are scenarios where Yamato joins the crew and I would place Sanji above Yamato. But the vast majority of those scenarios are: "my expectations of Yamato vs Kaido were wrong". If Yamato pushes Kaido to use his Awakening to overcome her, I don't think I could plausibly be convinced that Sanji > Yamato regardless of what happens in the future. I don't think Prime Sanji could push Kaido to use his Awakening.

This is an extreme example, but it gets at where I'm coming from. If the gap between End of Wano Yamato and Sanji is sufficiently great, nothing Sanji will simply be unable to close the gap.

Leaving aside difficulties, if Yamato demonstrates that she can clad her attacks in Haoshoku (an ability that Kaido said only a handful of the very strongest possess), that's unequivocal top tier portrayal. You can't convince me that Sanji is above her because of "Monster Trio" if Sanji himself does not receive a similar portrayal as being a top tier.


@Doggo, @Weeman, @Kuro Ashi, @Kishido, @Kromage911, @Ten Yaksha Blother, @Marimo_420, @Midnight Delight, @Shisui_038, @Cross_Marian, @Jew D. Boy, @Shiroyru, @Bogard, @Bil02, @Dark Hound, @Gensui Sazid, @Topi Jerami, @TheAncientCenturion, @solis, @sneko,
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I call things as I see it. And currently, Yamato has the feats and portrayal to be placed above Sanji. Based on how she performs on the Rooftop, I might place her on the same tier as or even above Zoro and Luffy.

The question: "how strong is Yamato?" is IMO an entirely different question from "will Yamato join the crew?". I think it's stupid to try and use your opinion on the latter to answer the former when you can just evaluate Yamato's combat feats and portrayal directly.

If Yamato by herself pushes Kaido to use his Awakening and someone tells me: "X is above Yamato because Yamato will join the crew and Yamato cannot disturb the monster trio" my response would be to block that person. I don't think that's an argument that is sound enough to even bother refuting.

Feats and portrayal take precedence over fandom perceptions of crew dynamics and hierarchy.
 
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Pan D. A. Man

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#3,572
#3,572
bennbeckman said:
More than a few, you are right reality is evidence and you say the same things as Moe hence you are Moe... that's how reasonable users come up with reasonable conclusions
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Again Idk who he is to judge if we say same thing. Though only things I heard is because I talk about in defending Sanji, means I am him. Now you guys saying Erkan is my alt account cause he is doing same thing. Not credible evidence, just stupid being stupid :kayneshrug:.
 
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Pan D. A. Man

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#3,576
#3,576
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