Chapter Discussion One Piece - Chapter 969: The Idiot Lord
- Thread starter Bogard
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- Tags chapter 969 kaido oden orochi prime moria worstgen
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Yeah, it's pretty obvious that Semimaru is blind. The translator notes provided in the imgur scanlations basically said that Semimaru was inspired from a blind poet or something... and given that Semimaru in this chapter always seemed to have had his eyes closed, it's easy to put the two and two together.
But I do like the cicada info.
But I do like the cicada info.
Little interesting, probably a hint why Oden hold back for 5 years?
Reading the page above, it seems like when Oden meet his father he wasn´t sick and also we never see him again later in the manga.
What if Orochi spreading out these rumours about Oden father Sukiyaki? What if Sukiyaki wasn´t never ill, someone as Orochi wouldn´t just kill him off with the knowledge that Oden would get his position later back, so killing his father wouldn´t help him much. Interesting is that the panel and overall the conversation between Oden and Orochi cut out in that moment when Oden ask what happen to his father.
What if Orochi kidnapped his father and Kaido held captive him in Wano? So Orochi make a deal that he would give his father back and Kaido gonna leave Wano when he don´t do anything. Also something with ships was in the deal aswell(probably to open up the borders of Wano). I can see such twist later with Sukiyaki still beeing alive, similar as King Riku in Dressrosa. After all someone should be the shogun after the downfall of Orochi and Kaido, Momo is still young for it and Hiyori can´t became the next Shogun, so his grandfather could get the position until Momo is old enough to take the role?
About Sukiyaki we don´t see much, either about his character and his role in wano, but he was loved by all the daimyos and overall we didn´t see much of him. If we isn´t get really killed, I can see him in Onigashima held captive by Kaido and the beast pirates.
Reading the page above, it seems like when Oden meet his father he wasn´t sick and also we never see him again later in the manga.
What if Orochi spreading out these rumours about Oden father Sukiyaki? What if Sukiyaki wasn´t never ill, someone as Orochi wouldn´t just kill him off with the knowledge that Oden would get his position later back, so killing his father wouldn´t help him much. Interesting is that the panel and overall the conversation between Oden and Orochi cut out in that moment when Oden ask what happen to his father.
What if Orochi kidnapped his father and Kaido held captive him in Wano? So Orochi make a deal that he would give his father back and Kaido gonna leave Wano when he don´t do anything. Also something with ships was in the deal aswell(probably to open up the borders of Wano). I can see such twist later with Sukiyaki still beeing alive, similar as King Riku in Dressrosa. After all someone should be the shogun after the downfall of Orochi and Kaido, Momo is still young for it and Hiyori can´t became the next Shogun, so his grandfather could get the position until Momo is old enough to take the role?
About Sukiyaki we don´t see much, either about his character and his role in wano, but he was loved by all the daimyos and overall we didn´t see much of him. If we isn´t get really killed, I can see him in Onigashima held captive by Kaido and the beast pirates.
Just remembered this interesting line. Oden was a fool all the way back in Zou.
I thought it was a generic insult back at the time, but more likely Oda already had the basic idea of what he was planning to do with Oden's life back then. That's when we learned he was crucial to Roger's crew. Kaido could have called Oden a weakling, not very convincing while wearing that scar. He could have called Oden a coward, not by the way he died. Instead, Oden humiliated himself and lost the trust and hope of the people for what seemed like a temporary deal at best. He trusted a snake. Oden died a fool indeed.
I thought it was a generic insult back at the time, but more likely Oda already had the basic idea of what he was planning to do with Oden's life back then. That's when we learned he was crucial to Roger's crew. Kaido could have called Oden a weakling, not very convincing while wearing that scar. He could have called Oden a coward, not by the way he died. Instead, Oden humiliated himself and lost the trust and hope of the people for what seemed like a temporary deal at best. He trusted a snake. Oden died a fool indeed.
S
Just remembered this interesting line. Oden was a fool all the way back in Zou.
I thought it was a generic insult back at the time, but more likely Oda already had the basic idea of what he was planning to do with Oden's life back then. That's when we learned he was crucial to Roger's crew. Kaido could have called Oden a weakling, not very convincing while wearing that scar. He could have called Oden a coward, not by the way he died. Instead, Oden humiliated himself and lost the trust and hope of the people for what seemed like a temporary deal at best. He trusted a snake. Oden died a fool indeed.
I thought it was a generic insult back at the time, but more likely Oda already had the basic idea of what he was planning to do with Oden's life back then. That's when we learned he was crucial to Roger's crew. Kaido could have called Oden a weakling, not very convincing while wearing that scar. He could have called Oden a coward, not by the way he died. Instead, Oden humiliated himself and lost the trust and hope of the people for what seemed like a temporary deal at best. He trusted a snake. Oden died a fool indeed.
W
I'm still thinking this through, but just to throw it out there:
Throughout OP, Oda is a master of writing morally gray characters. In Wano especially, it seems like we've been meant to root for "good guys" who aren't quite 100% great guys, as well as giving "bad guys" more sympathy than they sometimes deserve.
Remember the fan backlash when Komurasaki was revealed as an oiran? People hated her just because she was a prostitute, even though she was more like a high-class escort. People treated her as suspect just because she was an oiran and said she couldn't be trusted. Some of the fanbase is still hung up on that fact!
Then we got Yasuie, a totally heroic character who, uh, sold his daughter to be a prostitute companion. But we still think of him as a "good guy." We've also vacillated on Kyoshiro, Shutenmaru, Shinobu, Speed, and a few other gray characters, which fits Oda's style of course. We've done 180s on Drake and Killer as Oda showed us a different side of them.
But to make Oden's story more powerful, Oda had to make him suffer more, and to be more distasteful. What could be worse in the OP world than turning your back on your country? Vivi says hello! Turning your back on your own elderly father? Just because the adventure of the sea was more exciting? How selfish! Oda went as far as to drag our hearts through the mud by showing us how Toki suffered at sea, not to mention how even Roger called Oden names. So clearly, we're supposed to think Oden is a flawed (not evil, but not ideal) person.
And what tough-guy trope is ready to answer our concerns? The non-physical trial. Of course every literary tough guy can withstand physical pain, but psychological pain is the typical step-up in storytelling. Think of a POW who bides his time in the enemy camp, knowing that someday justice will be served, or even think of Señor Pink, whose "humiliating" appearance only proved his toughness. A truly strong character would welcome this psychological test as a proof of their strength.
But we know that Oden didn't make it. He DID pass the test of humiliation, but he didn't get his reward. I don't think Oda means to present Oden as a perfect hero or a Chad. He is showing us a flawed person who was the first to test the boundaries of his country. He was always presented as a rule-tester and a rebel. As far as morally gray OP characters go, Oda took this one to an extreme:
1) to punish Oden appropriately so that the readers feel satisfied
2) to make the current-day battle more meaningful
3) to make the readers feel the same frustration as the citizens of Wano. We're ready for the Strawhats to fix this shit, and so are they.
Like I said, I'm still working on these thoughts. What do you think?
Throughout OP, Oda is a master of writing morally gray characters. In Wano especially, it seems like we've been meant to root for "good guys" who aren't quite 100% great guys, as well as giving "bad guys" more sympathy than they sometimes deserve.
Remember the fan backlash when Komurasaki was revealed as an oiran? People hated her just because she was a prostitute, even though she was more like a high-class escort. People treated her as suspect just because she was an oiran and said she couldn't be trusted. Some of the fanbase is still hung up on that fact!
Then we got Yasuie, a totally heroic character who, uh, sold his daughter to be a prostitute companion. But we still think of him as a "good guy." We've also vacillated on Kyoshiro, Shutenmaru, Shinobu, Speed, and a few other gray characters, which fits Oda's style of course. We've done 180s on Drake and Killer as Oda showed us a different side of them.
But to make Oden's story more powerful, Oda had to make him suffer more, and to be more distasteful. What could be worse in the OP world than turning your back on your country? Vivi says hello! Turning your back on your own elderly father? Just because the adventure of the sea was more exciting? How selfish! Oda went as far as to drag our hearts through the mud by showing us how Toki suffered at sea, not to mention how even Roger called Oden names. So clearly, we're supposed to think Oden is a flawed (not evil, but not ideal) person.
And what tough-guy trope is ready to answer our concerns? The non-physical trial. Of course every literary tough guy can withstand physical pain, but psychological pain is the typical step-up in storytelling. Think of a POW who bides his time in the enemy camp, knowing that someday justice will be served, or even think of Señor Pink, whose "humiliating" appearance only proved his toughness. A truly strong character would welcome this psychological test as a proof of their strength.
But we know that Oden didn't make it. He DID pass the test of humiliation, but he didn't get his reward. I don't think Oda means to present Oden as a perfect hero or a Chad. He is showing us a flawed person who was the first to test the boundaries of his country. He was always presented as a rule-tester and a rebel. As far as morally gray OP characters go, Oda took this one to an extreme:
1) to punish Oden appropriately so that the readers feel satisfied
2) to make the current-day battle more meaningful
3) to make the readers feel the same frustration as the citizens of Wano. We're ready for the Strawhats to fix this shit, and so are they.
Like I said, I'm still working on these thoughts. What do you think?
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