Spoiler One Piece Chapter 971 Spoilers Discussion
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Yeah I know because that I waiting for the whole chapter before making my final decide about Oden character.
Don't get me wrong but I still can't believe that Oden believe Kaido about the ship deal, that is for me the biggest fail(the previous point about the people in wano who get saved by Oden and also other points are okay, we can see that in different way). Their was no way that Kaido and Orochi would go from wano after factories up. And the biggest problem start with the 5 years, whole 5 years where Oden could do something/ a plan for the future, he had so much time. But I wanna go discussion this in another thread later.
Probably the view about Oden in general is kinda false? What if Oda really try to tell this, the foolish lord who have a naive heart and probably his biggest weakness? In that case if he really try to bring out this point I can understand him and wouldn't call Oden as fail character, yes he did something dumb but that is most like because of his character after all? In the end we will learn more, but it is kinda sad to see him boiling in that hot water and dying...
Don't get me wrong but I still can't believe that Oden believe Kaido about the ship deal, that is for me the biggest fail(the previous point about the people in wano who get saved by Oden and also other points are okay, we can see that in different way). Their was no way that Kaido and Orochi would go from wano after factories up. And the biggest problem start with the 5 years, whole 5 years where Oden could do something/ a plan for the future, he had so much time. But I wanna go discussion this in another thread later.
Probably the view about Oden in general is kinda false? What if Oda really try to tell this, the foolish lord who have a naive heart and probably his biggest weakness? In that case if he really try to bring out this point I can understand him and wouldn't call Oden as fail character, yes he did something dumb but that is most like because of his character after all? In the end we will learn more, but it is kinda sad to see him boiling in that hot water and dying...
Grown into what? Was he a whiny man in chapter one? No. Was he a man who didn't care for his friends in chapter one? No. He's the same guy he was in chapter one.
The only difference is that this is the first hug challenge he's ever gotten. This is the first time he's faced people who actively lie to him and threaten weaklings and want him dead and are strong enough to kill him. And he's failed miserably. He's failed to win over his people or redeem his mistakes and it's just sad. And not sad in that it's a tragic story, I mean sad in that he's not actually accomplished much IMO. Maybe if we had seen him like struggle to like acquire his Red Scabbards at least then it would have felt like he accomplished that. But he the Scabbards sort of just follow him because he's the manliest man from chapter one. Then he manages to join white beard because he was the manliest man from chapter one. Then he manages to get Toki because he's the manliest man from chapter one.
And then he the first time being the manliest man isn't enough he dies But Oda tells us that people ignore all his failures and dfvote themselves to him because once again, he's the manliest man.
The only difference is that this is the first hug challenge he's ever gotten. This is the first time he's faced people who actively lie to him and threaten weaklings and want him dead and are strong enough to kill him. And he's failed miserably. He's failed to win over his people or redeem his mistakes and it's just sad. And not sad in that it's a tragic story, I mean sad in that he's not actually accomplished much IMO. Maybe if we had seen him like struggle to like acquire his Red Scabbards at least then it would have felt like he accomplished that. But he the Scabbards sort of just follow him because he's the manliest man from chapter one. Then he manages to join white beard because he was the manliest man from chapter one. Then he manages to get Toki because he's the manliest man from chapter one.
And then he the first time being the manliest man isn't enough he dies But Oda tells us that people ignore all his failures and dfvote themselves to him because once again, he's the manliest man.
i think you are forgetting that oden had not one ounce of compassion in him before this he was a brute people feared him he indeed had grown his actions would not go well with oden original character type it would've been worse if he stayed the same way he had learn grow even grow stronger oden is no longer the same oden was the same man who made udon over his friends ashes the same guy who had fuck the country up so much that even his own father deserted him the same guy that ran away from his problems instead of facing them oden was willing to stay back to save the country but toki made him leave the same guy who did this for everyone taking unatural amounts of pain head on all im saying is you have to and i mean have to accept oden had changed he was no longer a street thug he was a man not a boy oda emphasized on that detail .
Sure. They still mean different things though. That's just a list of the actions done but the meaning behind the actions is different
Zoro believed his dream is worthless if he let's Luffy die so his entire thing was built on what his dream means to him.
Oden here seems to be doing this because these are his men so he has to save them. That sort of thing.
Zoro does this where no one can see because he knows it's entirely about his own dream he's doing this so he doesn't have to get other people involved. This scene is so that the readers can tell Zoro's convictions are his own
Oden does this directly in front of everyone because it's a public execution. This scene was constructed to create sympathy from the Scabbards and people of Wano for Oden and the reader.
Theres different meanings behind similar actions.
What about him having a meal in merry of his dead friend? Or him taking the fall for Kin'emon with the Boar? Or him choosing to rehabilitate all of Kuri?
Don't you need compassion to do these things?
Zoro believed his dream is worthless if he let's Luffy die so his entire thing was built on what his dream means to him.
Oden here seems to be doing this because these are his men so he has to save them. That sort of thing.
Zoro does this where no one can see because he knows it's entirely about his own dream he's doing this so he doesn't have to get other people involved. This scene is so that the readers can tell Zoro's convictions are his own
Oden does this directly in front of everyone because it's a public execution. This scene was constructed to create sympathy from the Scabbards and people of Wano for Oden and the reader.
Theres different meanings behind similar actions.
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What about him having a meal in merry of his dead friend? Or him taking the fall for Kin'emon with the Boar? Or him choosing to rehabilitate all of Kuri?
Don't you need compassion to do these things?
that was not in merry people perceived that act other wise he doesn't think about others he has done good things but that doesnt negate the bad stuff he tries to help and fails thats his whole character a thug trying to be nice atleast it was . he was changing but he did not plan on ruling kuri either hes the king of the thugs simple his outlook on laugh had not change but he was trying to better i admit
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