Rank These Qin Generals
- Thread starter SakazOuki
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Lol. This is a great list.
Sooner or later just based off of history Ousen will surpass Hakuki and Ouki. The Manga literally says that the old era will be surpassed with the feat of taking down entire Kingdoms. Every single Kingdom fan at this point knows that Ousen was the main guy for achieving that feat.
I would say not having SHK in the top 5 is insanity. I still believe RBK was retconned from an OP fighter while SHK is and will be the real deal.
The rest is completely reasonable. Maybe a bit of Old Qin 6 disrespect but hell how are we supposed to treat Shibasaku, Kyou and Oukotsu?
- Oukotsu one shotted by young Kanmei and called weak by Moubu
- Kyou defeated by Houken and seemingly without that much struggle.
-Shibasaku barely any major hype iirc
Kanki who was potentially the weakest of the new Qin 6 (he'll be once they all went all out) received a feat of almost slaying RBK who is portrayed to be the greatest general in the Manga.
Sooner or later just based off of history Ousen will surpass Hakuki and Ouki. The Manga literally says that the old era will be surpassed with the feat of taking down entire Kingdoms. Every single Kingdom fan at this point knows that Ousen was the main guy for achieving that feat.
I would say not having SHK in the top 5 is insanity. I still believe RBK was retconned from an OP fighter while SHK is and will be the real deal.
The rest is completely reasonable. Maybe a bit of Old Qin 6 disrespect but hell how are we supposed to treat Shibasaku, Kyou and Oukotsu?
- Oukotsu one shotted by young Kanmei and called weak by Moubu
- Kyou defeated by Houken and seemingly without that much struggle.
-Shibasaku barely any major hype iirc
Kanki who was potentially the weakest of the new Qin 6 (he'll be once they all went all out) received a feat of almost slaying RBK who is portrayed to be the greatest general in the Manga.
If we're going off historical feats, there is a clear consensus on the four best military commanders of the Warring States Era.
That would still be a different discussion as to who the best generals are in Kingdom, a fictional story inspired by history - not a retelling or adaptation of it.
In Kingdom, the four have competition from the likes of Ou Ki, Kou En, Mou Bu, and others with time, I'm sure.
I responded right after you posted. I clearly have had no issue being very direct with you in the past, don't know why you're now manufacturing some kind of reluctance on my part.
The last time I did respond to your inane ramblings, you wisely piped down and let the topic die.
I have no problem with dropping disagreements if the alternative means good faith and effort on my part being met with braindead takes or juvenile cowardice - both are a waste of my time.
That would still be a different discussion as to who the best generals are in Kingdom, a fictional story inspired by history - not a retelling or adaptation of it.
In Kingdom, the four have competition from the likes of Ou Ki, Kou En, Mou Bu, and others with time, I'm sure.
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I responded right after you posted. I clearly have had no issue being very direct with you in the past, don't know why you're now manufacturing some kind of reluctance on my part.
The last time I did respond to your inane ramblings, you wisely piped down and let the topic die.
I have no problem with dropping disagreements if the alternative means good faith and effort on my part being met with braindead takes or juvenile cowardice - both are a waste of my time.
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He called Riboku an ''enemy of unprescedented level''. Meaning not known or seen before.
And Ouki only ever figured out they had a hidden army once he arrived at the final destination and saw the layout of the terrain. Before it was simply a faint feeling of a scheme. Once he anticipated the 2nd army his next course of action was to try to eliminate the Chousou army and haul ass before they could get sandwiched which ended up being a big miscalculation.
And I'm curious as to Riboku's awareness of Moubu while creating his grand strategy, because Moubu wasn't exactly an unknown entity even at this point.
To me everything Ouki says in this page is an admission of inferiority.
And Ouki only ever figured out they had a hidden army once he arrived at the final destination and saw the layout of the terrain. Before it was simply a faint feeling of a scheme. Once he anticipated the 2nd army his next course of action was to try to eliminate the Chousou army and haul ass before they could get sandwiched which ended up being a big miscalculation.
And I'm curious as to Riboku's awareness of Moubu while creating his grand strategy, because Moubu wasn't exactly an unknown entity even at this point.
To me everything Ouki says in this page is an admission of inferiority.
Yeah I think Ousen is destined to be the second best in the manga. He's already been compared to Ouki and Hakuki, and he's only going to get better at leading large campaigns/stronger subordinates. Just like Shin will surpass everyone before him, so will Ousen. The fact I'm a big supporter of him being the final villain does cloud my judgement.
I still think we might see Riboku show off martially, but Shouheikun has been consistentally hyped up for being strong.
Saitaku implied he was stronger than Moubu back before the manga hit triple digits, during the State of Ai arc he was compared to Moubu, etc etc.
Shouheikun has been compared to the pinnacle of strategy and tactics(Riboku) and the pinnacle of martial might(Moubu). Top 5 is bare minimum. EOS he can be as high as 2
He's a disgrace to the Ou family lol. I'm surprised how clearcut Hara made Moubu>Oukotsu lol
Plus, Moubu was said to be the greatest offensive power in Qin history, and it seems like Kyou was a similar type of general. So she's confirmed below him just like Oukotsu is. Though she died far before reaching her full potential...
I don't believe he's ever been mentioned individually outside of the rest of the Qin 6 at all, and almost 800 chpaters in that's ludicrous lol
I put him higher than Oukotsu, Kyou and Koshou mostly because of his historical role.
I still think we might see Riboku show off martially, but Shouheikun has been consistentally hyped up for being strong.
Saitaku implied he was stronger than Moubu back before the manga hit triple digits, during the State of Ai arc he was compared to Moubu, etc etc.
Shouheikun has been compared to the pinnacle of strategy and tactics(Riboku) and the pinnacle of martial might(Moubu). Top 5 is bare minimum. EOS he can be as high as 2
He's a disgrace to the Ou family lol. I'm surprised how clearcut Hara made Moubu>Oukotsu lol
Plus, Moubu was said to be the greatest offensive power in Qin history, and it seems like Kyou was a similar type of general. So she's confirmed below him just like Oukotsu is. Though she died far before reaching her full potential...
I don't believe he's ever been mentioned individually outside of the rest of the Qin 6 at all, and almost 800 chpaters in that's ludicrous lol
I put him higher than Oukotsu, Kyou and Koshou mostly because of his historical role.
For one, to Ou Ki, Ri Boki would be an unprecedented threat.
Ri Boku is better than even Ren Pa, though ironically both have referred to the other as the strongest of the 3GHs.
Praise and platitude are not without meaning, but have to weighed at their appropriate weight, couched in context. No doubt Ou Ki meant what he said, and Ri Boku was worthy of that descriptor, but then what does it then say that Ri Boku went through all that effort simply to kill Ou Ki? Are those actions and the resources committed (i.e. the lives spent) not reflective of an equal regard?
Ou Ki had multiple clues that led him to the conclusion of a second army.
Nevertheless, the point is, had he remained at this vantage point, he wouldn't have needed to figure out anything. He would've spotted the enemy's movement, or at least been in a far better position to anticipate their arrival (think scouts).
Mou Bu disregarded Ou Ki's order to remain within the boundary of his vantage point. Doing so forced Ou Ki's hand in leaving said vantage point to come to this aid.
That battle goes MUCH different if Mou Bu kept the dominant army within the vantage point. Second army or no, Ou Ki would've been able to handle Hou Ken while Tou and Mou Bu led their forces using their overwhelming offence.
Mou Bu's ability wasn't unknown. It was known he lacked experience. That made him inherently less of a threat and more susceptible to poor judgment - which ultimately turned out to be the case at the worst possible junction.
Ou Ki can own his loss in any way, shape or form Hara would like him to.
What matters is what actually happened on panel. What the material showed, not how the characters in it tell it.
What actually happened is that Ou Ki was dealt a series of unfortunate cards by an author that still went out of his way to have him perform far better than circumstances should've allowed, while actively and correctly anticipating his enemy's next move, and heavily implying his survival but for a dishonourable archer and insubordinate Mou Bu.
Ri Boku is better than even Ren Pa, though ironically both have referred to the other as the strongest of the 3GHs.
Praise and platitude are not without meaning, but have to weighed at their appropriate weight, couched in context. No doubt Ou Ki meant what he said, and Ri Boku was worthy of that descriptor, but then what does it then say that Ri Boku went through all that effort simply to kill Ou Ki? Are those actions and the resources committed (i.e. the lives spent) not reflective of an equal regard?
Ou Ki had multiple clues that led him to the conclusion of a second army.
Nevertheless, the point is, had he remained at this vantage point, he wouldn't have needed to figure out anything. He would've spotted the enemy's movement, or at least been in a far better position to anticipate their arrival (think scouts).
Mou Bu disregarded Ou Ki's order to remain within the boundary of his vantage point. Doing so forced Ou Ki's hand in leaving said vantage point to come to this aid.
That battle goes MUCH different if Mou Bu kept the dominant army within the vantage point. Second army or no, Ou Ki would've been able to handle Hou Ken while Tou and Mou Bu led their forces using their overwhelming offence.
Mou Bu's ability wasn't unknown. It was known he lacked experience. That made him inherently less of a threat and more susceptible to poor judgment - which ultimately turned out to be the case at the worst possible junction.
Ou Ki can own his loss in any way, shape or form Hara would like him to.
What matters is what actually happened on panel. What the material showed, not how the characters in it tell it.
What actually happened is that Ou Ki was dealt a series of unfortunate cards by an author that still went out of his way to have him perform far better than circumstances should've allowed, while actively and correctly anticipating his enemy's next move, and heavily implying his survival but for a dishonourable archer and insubordinate Mou Bu.
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Tou’s character is as much as strength of his generalship as any other.
I don’t think you can disregard what a rarity a general of this temperament is, or how keen his judgment is relative even to other Great Generals.
That describing Tou as well-rounded is an understatement is wild in and of itself. He’s not just good at everything, he’s among the very best.
He may lack an obvious gimmick or advantage, but doesn’t mean he lacks for special skills and talents. Both his foundations and intangibles are phenomenal in almost every regard.
I don’t think you can disregard what a rarity a general of this temperament is, or how keen his judgment is relative even to other Great Generals.
That describing Tou as well-rounded is an understatement is wild in and of itself. He’s not just good at everything, he’s among the very best.
He may lack an obvious gimmick or advantage, but doesn’t mean he lacks for special skills and talents. Both his foundations and intangibles are phenomenal in almost every regard.
What you said doesn’t add anything new to my understanding of Tou, we even have GHM’s thoughts on the matter
I’m still taking those three over Tou. Their raw talent in their area of expertise is just out of proportion, and their accomplishments only go to prove this. Duke Hyou is also of the same caliber as these guys, he is the epitome of instinctual warfare.
The existence of generals such as Renpa, Ouki and SHK also undermines Tou (albeit SHK is lacking some experience)
I might be overestimating Shibasaku and Oukutsu by putting them above Tou, don’t even know if this will even be addressed in the manga lol. All that said, it doesn’t mean Tou necessarily loses to these guys, that falls to matchup mostly, but personally when I create a list of the best generals I’m looking at extraordinary talent in a particular department, that’s where the gold lies.
The existence of generals such as Renpa, Ouki and SHK also undermines Tou (albeit SHK is lacking some experience)
I might be overestimating Shibasaku and Oukutsu by putting them above Tou, don’t even know if this will even be addressed in the manga lol. All that said, it doesn’t mean Tou necessarily loses to these guys, that falls to matchup mostly, but personally when I create a list of the best generals I’m looking at extraordinary talent in a particular department, that’s where the gold lies.
I don't think you'll find much argument against ranking Ou Sen, Ren Pa, Mou Bu or even Duke Hyou ahead of Tou - each of them is respectively better at strategy, martial matters and tactics (Instincts) than Tou is in any one discipline to such a degree, his versatility can't be assumed to compensate.
Kan Ki is a different matter though. Whatever you might make of his potential, whatever he was in the manga does not measure up to Tou in the slightest. He is the weakest of the second generation of the 6GG and the Q3 were well within range of surpassing him in relative little time, I don't think there's much to dispute that - if anything.
SHK isn't even remotely in the conversation as a general. He has no worthwhile feats worth drawing comparison and no reasonable person would entertain comparing him to someone like Tou, who has the kind of experience only few can attest to as a survivor of the Golden Era of the Warring States.
Going by historical contributions, there is very little on Tou.
Shi Ba Saku's achievements were foundational to Qin's ascending to a dominant military power. His contributions really only come second to Haku Ki, depending on how you look at it.
Ou Kotsu and Ou Ki are the same person, and he did have success recorded in the chronicles, including victories over Ren Pa.
The manga is not a retelling or adaptation of history as the most widely accepted historical records chronicle.
It's a fictional story based on that. Hara is filling the voids of history as his creative vision guides him - for better or ill.
One of those creative visions has Tou as one of the greatest generals seen in the series so far. The Man Acknowledged by Ou Ki.
Kan Ki is a different matter though. Whatever you might make of his potential, whatever he was in the manga does not measure up to Tou in the slightest. He is the weakest of the second generation of the 6GG and the Q3 were well within range of surpassing him in relative little time, I don't think there's much to dispute that - if anything.
SHK isn't even remotely in the conversation as a general. He has no worthwhile feats worth drawing comparison and no reasonable person would entertain comparing him to someone like Tou, who has the kind of experience only few can attest to as a survivor of the Golden Era of the Warring States.
Going by historical contributions, there is very little on Tou.
Shi Ba Saku's achievements were foundational to Qin's ascending to a dominant military power. His contributions really only come second to Haku Ki, depending on how you look at it.
Ou Kotsu and Ou Ki are the same person, and he did have success recorded in the chronicles, including victories over Ren Pa.
The manga is not a retelling or adaptation of history as the most widely accepted historical records chronicle.
It's a fictional story based on that. Hara is filling the voids of history as his creative vision guides him - for better or ill.
One of those creative visions has Tou as one of the greatest generals seen in the series so far. The Man Acknowledged by Ou Ki.
If you wanna highlight Tou as a man acknowledged by Ouki, then Kanki was also recognized by Riboku, and for good reasons too
We can't just ignore his accomplishments, his methods are crap on paper nothing new, everyone who fought him understood that including Riboku himself, but they do work nonetheless. His depravity and love for violence are a talent themselves, and his foxy methods worked on the actual battlefield. Man was recognized by Ouki, Renpa, Ousen, Riboku, Kochou, Mougou, Choutou, SHK etc
When you get Ousen to say this about you, you know you're doing something right
You may find some tweaks in his 'strategies' here and there, but that applies to any general really
The fact is, Kanki has piled monstrous feats and achievements throughout the story, and it will be hard for Tou to match them
SHK is still chief of military affairs, tons of military experience when you think about it. Drawing countless simulations with other experts for decades does more or less translate on the battlefield, and it's not like SHK is a child who would fumble under stress. He has experience to read a battlefield as well as Riboku and Ousen do, at least that's what the hype is telling us.
Tou still wins in the experience department, but it is not like SHK will go from zero to hero once he finally takes up arms
Man became military chief for a reason, he likely served on the frontlines with Koshou in the golden era
We can't just ignore his accomplishments, his methods are crap on paper nothing new, everyone who fought him understood that including Riboku himself, but they do work nonetheless. His depravity and love for violence are a talent themselves, and his foxy methods worked on the actual battlefield. Man was recognized by Ouki, Renpa, Ousen, Riboku, Kochou, Mougou, Choutou, SHK etc
When you get Ousen to say this about you, you know you're doing something right
You may find some tweaks in his 'strategies' here and there, but that applies to any general really
The fact is, Kanki has piled monstrous feats and achievements throughout the story, and it will be hard for Tou to match them
SHK is still chief of military affairs, tons of military experience when you think about it. Drawing countless simulations with other experts for decades does more or less translate on the battlefield, and it's not like SHK is a child who would fumble under stress. He has experience to read a battlefield as well as Riboku and Ousen do, at least that's what the hype is telling us.
Tou still wins in the experience department, but it is not like SHK will go from zero to hero once he finally takes up arms
Man became military chief for a reason, he likely served on the frontlines with Koshou in the golden era
Words are ultimately just that. They cannot substitute the worth of action.
We've seen Tou's worth through his actions numerous times now during the Coalition War, Choyou and Juukou.
Kan Ki, by comparison, does not measure up to him under any honest scrutiny.
Kan Ki's methods were unorthodox and devastatingly effective but ultimately narrow. He did not lack for talent or ingenuity. He lacked the ability to exploit his own gifts, which is why his weakness was his weakness, and why he fought all of his battles in almost exactly the same manner.
As for his achievements, while he certainly deserves his share of the credit, when it comes to his greatest achievements, Kan Ki simply shares too much of it with others, whose contributions he could not reasonably claim any credit for because of the undeniable fact he's
never been a hands on commander.
Experience can only be gained doing. Experience in simulations only renders experience in doing simulations. They help to prepare for the real thing, but the experiences are no substitute.
SHK's role in the Qin military machine has not been out on campaign or in battle. It's been bureaucratic and logistical in nature from the capitol.
You cannot sensibly compare his battle experience to those that rarely leave the battlefield as it is.
We can speculate a great deal on what SHK may or may not have done off panel.
We know for a fact a great many things Tou has actually done and achieved.
Surely you can appreciate the difference and see how it doesn't make sense to assume a military mind mostly devoted to the grand strategy of an entire nation is equally capable in the field to someone like Tou who has devoted their entire life to it?
This coming from you is like a leper judging a pageant.
I had the right of it in the Ou Ki vs Mou Bu thread, you're basically just a hyperactive child struggling to grasp story told through pictures.
We've seen Tou's worth through his actions numerous times now during the Coalition War, Choyou and Juukou.
Kan Ki, by comparison, does not measure up to him under any honest scrutiny.
We can't just ignore his accomplishments, his methods are crap on paper nothing new, everyone who fought him understood that including Riboku himself, but they do work nonetheless. His depravity and love for violence are a talent themselves, and his foxy methods worked on the actual battlefield. Man was recognized by Ouki, Renpa, Ousen, Riboku, Kochou, Mougou, Choutou, SHK etc
When you get Ousen to say this about you, you know you're doing something right
You may find some tweaks in his 'strategies' here and there, but that applies to any general really
The fact is, Kanki has piled monstrous feats and achievements throughout the story, and it will be hard for Tou to match them
When you get Ousen to say this about you, you know you're doing something right
The fact is, Kanki has piled monstrous feats and achievements throughout the story, and it will be hard for Tou to match them
As for his achievements, while he certainly deserves his share of the credit, when it comes to his greatest achievements, Kan Ki simply shares too much of it with others, whose contributions he could not reasonably claim any credit for because of the undeniable fact he's
never been a hands on commander.
Experience can only be gained doing. Experience in simulations only renders experience in doing simulations. They help to prepare for the real thing, but the experiences are no substitute.
SHK's role in the Qin military machine has not been out on campaign or in battle. It's been bureaucratic and logistical in nature from the capitol.
You cannot sensibly compare his battle experience to those that rarely leave the battlefield as it is.
We can speculate a great deal on what SHK may or may not have done off panel.
We know for a fact a great many things Tou has actually done and achieved.
Surely you can appreciate the difference and see how it doesn't make sense to assume a military mind mostly devoted to the grand strategy of an entire nation is equally capable in the field to someone like Tou who has devoted their entire life to it?
This coming from you is like a leper judging a pageant.
I had the right of it in the Ou Ki vs Mou Bu thread, you're basically just a hyperactive child struggling to grasp story told through pictures.
If we're going off hype, Tou was acknowledged as an equal by Ou Ki, who Hara has put at the absolute pinnacle of generalship and continues to fellate at just about any given opportunity. Tou is widely acknowledged, even by figures like Mou Bu and Go Hou Mei, who doesn't give anyone hype besides Ri Boku, including Ou Sen.
Hype is ultimately worth little, and even in this regard Tou far outshines Kan Ki.
As for achievements, what on panel achievements does Kan Ki have that are completely his, really? Both Eikyuu and Koku You were victories delivered by Q3 talents doing heavy lifting with absolutely no guidance from Kan Ki beyond orders.
People were soiling themselves when Shi Ba Shou repelled 30K Yan with only 5000 Seika men. Tou fought a Chu army of 50K with just 5K at the start of Coalition War. He was chosen to serve alongside Mou Bu against Chu for a reason, and his performance against Ka Rin was so absurd it broke the fourth wall.
He took Choyou while facing four Fire Dragons and their armies, including 3 absolute martial monsters. His offensive prowess is so great, at Juukou, GHM chose to rely on it to get the job done.
Tou has more than just hype. He has real, tangible feats and achievements to his name. He has displayed a wealth and depth of skills and ability and the material continues to hint we have yet to see him at his full strength. You want to talk about hype, it doesn't get more profoundly hype that Tou having yet to show himself truly pushed to his limits and unleashing the full extent of his ability.
By any honest scrutiny of the material, it becomes incredibly obvious Kan Ki does not come close to measuring up to Tou.
Hype is ultimately worth little, and even in this regard Tou far outshines Kan Ki.
As for achievements, what on panel achievements does Kan Ki have that are completely his, really? Both Eikyuu and Koku You were victories delivered by Q3 talents doing heavy lifting with absolutely no guidance from Kan Ki beyond orders.
People were soiling themselves when Shi Ba Shou repelled 30K Yan with only 5000 Seika men. Tou fought a Chu army of 50K with just 5K at the start of Coalition War. He was chosen to serve alongside Mou Bu against Chu for a reason, and his performance against Ka Rin was so absurd it broke the fourth wall.
He took Choyou while facing four Fire Dragons and their armies, including 3 absolute martial monsters. His offensive prowess is so great, at Juukou, GHM chose to rely on it to get the job done.
Tou has more than just hype. He has real, tangible feats and achievements to his name. He has displayed a wealth and depth of skills and ability and the material continues to hint we have yet to see him at his full strength. You want to talk about hype, it doesn't get more profoundly hype that Tou having yet to show himself truly pushed to his limits and unleashing the full extent of his ability.
By any honest scrutiny of the material, it becomes incredibly obvious Kan Ki does not come close to measuring up to Tou.
His hype doesn't outshine Kanki, lmao. Kanki's hype is as follows:
>Being called the best general in Qin at turning the tables by Mogou.
>Being compared to Ouki by Mougou (stated in guidebook 2).
>Being called equal to Riboku on few ocasions including by Riboku himself.
>Being called the best member of 6GG at the time + the most well known.
This is easily better then two statements Tou got from Ouki and GHM.
He played a major role in Sanyou, at Kankoku Pass repelled Wei and orchestrated the death of Han's commander in chief. None of it had anything to do with new gen. The argument of new gen is fair in his later two battles, but it was still Kanki who was planing everything and it was him who was orchestrating those situations. You can't say the same about Tou in Chiyoyou who simply gave Ouhon the initiative and wen't along. Tou's only achievement in this war was recognizing new gen's potencial and giving them free reign plus playing the bait.
What? No, he didn't. Where are you taking those numbers from?
Besides Tou failed at his job of protecting the mountain pass which was his main job in this war.
>Being called the best general in Qin at turning the tables by Mogou.
>Being compared to Ouki by Mougou (stated in guidebook 2).
>Being called equal to Riboku on few ocasions including by Riboku himself.
>Being called the best member of 6GG at the time + the most well known.
This is easily better then two statements Tou got from Ouki and GHM.
He played a major role in Sanyou, at Kankoku Pass repelled Wei and orchestrated the death of Han's commander in chief. None of it had anything to do with new gen. The argument of new gen is fair in his later two battles, but it was still Kanki who was planing everything and it was him who was orchestrating those situations. You can't say the same about Tou in Chiyoyou who simply gave Ouhon the initiative and wen't along. Tou's only achievement in this war was recognizing new gen's potencial and giving them free reign plus playing the bait.
What? No, he didn't. Where are you taking those numbers from?
Besides Tou failed at his job of protecting the mountain pass which was his main job in this war.
Alright, some names ranked below.
1. Ousen
A wild strategist, a tactical mind comparable to the one of strongest Great Heaven in history, Riboku. He is in fact constantly matched up against and paralled with him. He also has parallels with Hakuki, the (imo) strongest of the old Qin Six. And EoS Ousen will be even stronger, probably the strongest commander ever, and the final guy that Shin overcomes (taking his place as the GOAT general). In general new gen > old gen and Ousen embodies the best of the new.
2. Shouheikun
This man has immense hype. A top brain, he's Qin's Head of the Military Affairs. He's also often paired up against Riboku. Aside from his utter genius, he's also a talented warrior, one of the very best in the manga. Many don't rank him quite that high but I honestly think that his raw talent is superior to that of every member of the old Qin Six and he only loses (very very slightly) to Ousen.
3. Hakuki
The leader of the old Qin Six, a man who terrorized China. While Ouki got the "rumor" of the being the best of the old, I think that it is for Hakuki that Hara reserved the most factual evidence on that. Needless to say, this man was an absolute freak.
I see them this way but putting Hakuki #1 or Shouheikun #1 would also be fine, they are really close.
Okay, let's continue:
4. Ouki/Koshou/Tou
I have those three on the same spot. Everyone knows Ouki, Qin's Monster Bird, a legendary Great General from Qin's previous gen. Koshou was also part of the old Qin Six and was a genius of warfare, to the point where there were rumors that the other five were the appendages in his plans. He also taught to current Qin's military chief Shouheikun.
Tou is man whose true power is still kept hid by Hara after hundreds of chapters...and this is scary. Ouki also said that Tou was never below him in the first place.
5. Duke Hyou
The apex of the instictual commander, he crushed many strategical generals. The man received a big amount of recognition in the manga but the most impressive piece of hype comes from Riboku himself who called him a man above his understanding of war, after the Duke's "unthinkable" feat of seeing through his "current" tactic through instinct alone.
6. Moubu
This man, him and him only, is somehow able to have his army beat tactics through pure might, tactics that if any other Great General tried to tackle too with might alone...he would utter fail. In an era of tactical supremacy, Moubu still manages to be one of the greatest Great Generals in China. His understanding of warfare "runs deep" and he is capable to use even complex formations on the occasion. Qin's greatest offensive power in history.
7. Yotanwa
The King of the mountains, comparable to what Sei himself is for Qin. A very strong strategist and an outstanding leader. A top tier duelist too. Her armies goes nuts just from her presence, crushing the morale of her enemies. She won a truly extreme battle in the Western Zhao arc. As one of her (previous) Quanrong enemies said, Yotanwa is someone truly worthy of being called a King.
8. Kanki
Qin's demon. This is a man who never formally studied warfare and yet thanks to his own cunning and bandit like experience was able to climb up the ranks all the way to Qin Six. His thoughts elude even Ousen's and he has some shocking feats under his belt, such as his utter defeat of Great General Kochou with a 3:1 number disdvantage. In Northern Zhao he fooled and almost killing Riboku despite the context he had found himself in. However some of his feats were very situational, something I've talked about in the past. Still, there's no denying his legendary status. Kanki's warfare is so unique that I think he at least a shot against pretty much everybody in the manga. More than some other Generals who I rank above him.
9. Kyou
Kyou was described as a genius of war, the blood of King Sho running in her veins. Ouki was her mentor and she got a lot of praise from Renpa and Kyouen as well. She was quite young when she died and yet she had achieved a lot, becoming one of the Qin Six and big threat to the other states.
A wild strategist, a tactical mind comparable to the one of strongest Great Heaven in history, Riboku. He is in fact constantly matched up against and paralled with him. He also has parallels with Hakuki, the (imo) strongest of the old Qin Six. And EoS Ousen will be even stronger, probably the strongest commander ever, and the final guy that Shin overcomes (taking his place as the GOAT general). In general new gen > old gen and Ousen embodies the best of the new.
2. Shouheikun
This man has immense hype. A top brain, he's Qin's Head of the Military Affairs. He's also often paired up against Riboku. Aside from his utter genius, he's also a talented warrior, one of the very best in the manga. Many don't rank him quite that high but I honestly think that his raw talent is superior to that of every member of the old Qin Six and he only loses (very very slightly) to Ousen.
3. Hakuki
The leader of the old Qin Six, a man who terrorized China. While Ouki got the "rumor" of the being the best of the old, I think that it is for Hakuki that Hara reserved the most factual evidence on that. Needless to say, this man was an absolute freak.
I see them this way but putting Hakuki #1 or Shouheikun #1 would also be fine, they are really close.
Okay, let's continue:
4. Ouki/Koshou/Tou
I have those three on the same spot. Everyone knows Ouki, Qin's Monster Bird, a legendary Great General from Qin's previous gen. Koshou was also part of the old Qin Six and was a genius of warfare, to the point where there were rumors that the other five were the appendages in his plans. He also taught to current Qin's military chief Shouheikun.
Tou is man whose true power is still kept hid by Hara after hundreds of chapters...and this is scary. Ouki also said that Tou was never below him in the first place.
5. Duke Hyou
The apex of the instictual commander, he crushed many strategical generals. The man received a big amount of recognition in the manga but the most impressive piece of hype comes from Riboku himself who called him a man above his understanding of war, after the Duke's "unthinkable" feat of seeing through his "current" tactic through instinct alone.
6. Moubu
This man, him and him only, is somehow able to have his army beat tactics through pure might, tactics that if any other Great General tried to tackle too with might alone...he would utter fail. In an era of tactical supremacy, Moubu still manages to be one of the greatest Great Generals in China. His understanding of warfare "runs deep" and he is capable to use even complex formations on the occasion. Qin's greatest offensive power in history.
7. Yotanwa
The King of the mountains, comparable to what Sei himself is for Qin. A very strong strategist and an outstanding leader. A top tier duelist too. Her armies goes nuts just from her presence, crushing the morale of her enemies. She won a truly extreme battle in the Western Zhao arc. As one of her (previous) Quanrong enemies said, Yotanwa is someone truly worthy of being called a King.
8. Kanki
Qin's demon. This is a man who never formally studied warfare and yet thanks to his own cunning and bandit like experience was able to climb up the ranks all the way to Qin Six. His thoughts elude even Ousen's and he has some shocking feats under his belt, such as his utter defeat of Great General Kochou with a 3:1 number disdvantage. In Northern Zhao he fooled and almost killing Riboku despite the context he had found himself in. However some of his feats were very situational, something I've talked about in the past. Still, there's no denying his legendary status. Kanki's warfare is so unique that I think he at least a shot against pretty much everybody in the manga. More than some other Generals who I rank above him.
9. Kyou
Kyou was described as a genius of war, the blood of King Sho running in her veins. Ouki was her mentor and she got a lot of praise from Renpa and Kyouen as well. She was quite young when she died and yet she had achieved a lot, becoming one of the Qin Six and big threat to the other states.
The value of strategy is enormously highlighted in the manga. When you have literal armies of men, reaching even hundreds of thousands, talented tacticians who can best manouver them to achieve what they want...are absolutely fucking deadly. Deadly. Strategy is not everything (the term that Shouheikun used for it) but...yeah you get what I'm saying. Like I had said, for example think how versatile Renpa and Ouki are, how many things they can do aside from being excellent brains. And yet, it was them being excellent brains + everything else what was needed to match a more extreme tactical brain like Rinshoujo in battle.
Moubu is the only exception to this.
Aside from the actual army vs army battlefield, a top strategist can also be a huge problem in long term warfare: organizing the various armies, preparing dangerous long term plans, picking the where and who, preparing fortressess and cities to be incorporated into their grand plans etc. All the bigger picture.
The Heads of the nations' militaries (think how high this rank is) are all top tier brains first and foremost.
As for Ousen vs Ouki, Ousen's portrayal in general. His talent his just horrifying lol. His strategical level was on par with the Qin Six back then, and in fact he could have rosen to prominence years before the manga. He's also consistently paralled with Hakuki (who I have as the strongest Qin Six of old) and paralled with/matched up against Riboku, the most dangerous of China. I do think he'll probably even surpass him in the future. I do think that in most scenarios/battles Ouki pushes him to extrem diff, Ouki is a monster. But he gets outplayed and retreats before things get worse. This kind of L.
Moubu is the only exception to this.
Aside from the actual army vs army battlefield, a top strategist can also be a huge problem in long term warfare: organizing the various armies, preparing dangerous long term plans, picking the where and who, preparing fortressess and cities to be incorporated into their grand plans etc. All the bigger picture.
The Heads of the nations' militaries (think how high this rank is) are all top tier brains first and foremost.
As for Ousen vs Ouki, Ousen's portrayal in general. His talent his just horrifying lol. His strategical level was on par with the Qin Six back then, and in fact he could have rosen to prominence years before the manga. He's also consistently paralled with Hakuki (who I have as the strongest Qin Six of old) and paralled with/matched up against Riboku, the most dangerous of China. I do think he'll probably even surpass him in the future. I do think that in most scenarios/battles Ouki pushes him to extrem diff, Ouki is a monster. But he gets outplayed and retreats before things get worse. This kind of L.
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