Versus Battle Rinnegan Madara vs Kaido
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Yet Madara did it with one swing casually. You understand the difference between spending time trying to pulverize mountains and just doing it after a casual swing?
You just made that up...
Yeah, that's literally AOE. His Earthquake has large range that affects the enviroment creating waterquakes. An example of AP was against Akainu, which didn't do much
The Juubi nuked entire cities at random yet Sickbeard couldn't bring down an island with his strongest attack and no holding back, Why are we even talking about WB? As far as we know Kaido never even beat him nor sniff his shoes.
What other top tiers can do has nothing to do with Kaido. I never even brought anyone else but Madara in this.
Yet it stopped being a plot point after Sasuke gained EMS. Susanoo hasn't been a gimped since then.
I don't need too, my points remain strong while you cherry pick and bring other people up who in canon have been considered stronger than Kaido.
1. He let himself get hit multiple times by the scabbards, bad example here. He lets that happen against Madara and he's dead.
2. It will be against Kaido. Do not bring other top tiers.
3. It wouldn't be comparable to Nagato's. He was gimped at the time and his eyes aren't his. Madara's would be a lot more like his Sage version which pulled multiple asteroids.
4. if he's restraint or unconscious it's just not happening.
it renders the user damn near paralyzed while being pulled. Naruto was rendered useless until he got close to Nagato.
My point is as long as he has his Rinnegan he will have "pre cog" like in One Piece.
Blindness won't be an issue here considering Kaido has no attacks Madara couldn't read. Even then OP is about Pre Juubidara, so I can be an ass and add sage mode.
It isn't. Sasuke's teleportation out blitzes FTG, which Juubidara easily dodged. It's a speed above teleportation for some weird canon reason
Which Kaido can't handle
1. Kaido is not that big
2. A PS could allow him for easier restraint of the dragon form, or easier to prepare a giant water prison
He absorbed Amateratsu which is fire itself, unless we're going to put this strange cap on elemental techniques I don't see why it matters.
Madara literally has decades of fighting and has fought Tobirama multiple times, it is not crazy to assume he copied plenty of his techniques
Pretty dumb to assume Madara didn't learn any water jutsu over his entire lifetime, also considering the man knew storm style and used it in battle
Regardless, it is a strong endurance feat from a Madara that didn't even care.
You just made that up...
Yeah, that's literally AOE. His Earthquake has large range that affects the enviroment creating waterquakes. An example of AP was against Akainu, which didn't do much
The Juubi nuked entire cities at random yet Sickbeard couldn't bring down an island with his strongest attack and no holding back, Why are we even talking about WB? As far as we know Kaido never even beat him nor sniff his shoes.
What other top tiers can do has nothing to do with Kaido. I never even brought anyone else but Madara in this.
Yet it stopped being a plot point after Sasuke gained EMS. Susanoo hasn't been a gimped since then.
I don't need too, my points remain strong while you cherry pick and bring other people up who in canon have been considered stronger than Kaido.
1. He let himself get hit multiple times by the scabbards, bad example here. He lets that happen against Madara and he's dead.
2. It will be against Kaido. Do not bring other top tiers.
3. It wouldn't be comparable to Nagato's. He was gimped at the time and his eyes aren't his. Madara's would be a lot more like his Sage version which pulled multiple asteroids.
4. if he's restraint or unconscious it's just not happening.
it renders the user damn near paralyzed while being pulled. Naruto was rendered useless until he got close to Nagato.
Sure, it sure would be the sole power if I was acting like it's the only thing being explained on the panel.
But, acting disingenuous doesn't bring you anywhere. This is what Rayleigh said about: "Training this ability will allow you to read the location... number and movements of enemies you cannot even see". You can even see examples of COO, Enel's mind reading is part of it, being called "Mantra".
Also, CoO is like the "6th sense", it is about sensing the will of the attack - which grants a lot of abilities. There's more to it:
As I said, CoO is like sharingan and Sennin Mode combined.
But, acting disingenuous doesn't bring you anywhere. This is what Rayleigh said about: "Training this ability will allow you to read the location... number and movements of enemies you cannot even see". You can even see examples of COO, Enel's mind reading is part of it, being called "Mantra".
Also, CoO is like the "6th sense", it is about sensing the will of the attack - which grants a lot of abilities. There's more to it:
As I said, CoO is like sharingan and Sennin Mode combined.
Blindness won't be an issue here considering Kaido has no attacks Madara couldn't read. Even then OP is about Pre Juubidara, so I can be an ass and add sage mode.
It isn't. Sasuke's teleportation out blitzes FTG, which Juubidara easily dodged. It's a speed above teleportation for some weird canon reason
Which Kaido can't handle
1. Kaido is not that big
He absorbed Amateratsu which is fire itself, unless we're going to put this strange cap on elemental techniques I don't see why it matters.
Madara literally has decades of fighting and has fought Tobirama multiple times, it is not crazy to assume he copied plenty of his techniques
Pretty dumb to assume Madara didn't learn any water jutsu over his entire lifetime, also considering the man knew storm style and used it in battle
Ok, let's see.
Madara was quite tough but losing an arm after this? I wouldn't call it "tanking" tbh.
Madara was quite tough but losing an arm after this? I wouldn't call it "tanking" tbh.
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Yes in danger, dude lose his hand and was badly injuried just by the Bijuu phyiscal powers who aren´t even their forte:
And not just he didn´t used his strongest Susanoo, his semi perfect Susanoo was easily broken down by Kurama himself:
If Kurama with his physical power did this, imagine what Kaido would do.
Madara susanoo cost lot of stamina and he is also slow with it, he not going to tagged someone fast like Hybrid Kaido.
You are the one who implied that he spammed it with is wrong, for now we can´t say if he can spamm it or not, he just used it one-two times for a short moment.
The shockwave of the attack had easily the radius to destroy the entire island, their is no doubt about it.
And not just he didn´t used his strongest Susanoo, his semi perfect Susanoo was easily broken down by Kurama himself:
If Kurama with his physical power did this, imagine what Kaido would do.
Madara susanoo cost lot of stamina and he is also slow with it, he not going to tagged someone fast like Hybrid Kaido.
You are the one who implied that he spammed it with is wrong, for now we can´t say if he can spamm it or not, he just used it one-two times for a short moment.
The shockwave of the attack had easily the radius to destroy the entire island, their is no doubt about it.
Yes in danger, dude lose his hand and was badly injuried just by the Bijuu phyiscal powers who aren´t even their forte:
And not just he didn´t used his strongest Susanoo, his semi perfect Susanoo was easily broken down by Kurama himself:
Kaido's physical prowess has never been that strong, stop capping.
again, point me to the panel where it's stated that? Sasuke was using Susanoo for most of the war with no drawbacks. Like I've said, after EMS it stops being this huge chakra tax
You do realize Ringo is two clones right? against 7 Bijuu? do the math.
The shockwave of the attack had easily the radius to destroy the entire island, their is no doubt about it.
Dude using the "he didn't use it again therefore it a stamina tax" it's such a weak argument, specially in a series like Naruto that's filled with PIS.
Casual? Madara is always like that, even when he almost got killed off by Guy, he laughed and enjoy the battle, doesn´t change the fact thatt without Zetsu he would get rekt by the Bijuu for sure.
Clearly mean Perfect Susanoo, using normal susanno and the perfect version are clearly two big different things.
And as you said before with spamming, I clearly show that Madara was not spamming perfect Susanoo..
His physical power scales to the one of Whitebeard who is legit country lvl, Kaido is around that lvl...
And Sasuke used the lowest version, not even the semi version...
Perfect Susanoo drain and have more side effects, he for sure can´t spamm it lol, even Adult sage path Sasuke can´t spamm his current dimension teleport and you think none rikudo Madara can spamm something like Perfect Susanoo? Cmon...
He not always spamm perfect Susanoo,in fact that he can´t even spamm his teleport jutsu with sage chakra.
Their is no statement that Perfect Susanoo didn´t drain much stamina, but we clearly have a statement who show how much even the lowest susanoo form effects the body.
Nope he only had one Ringo clone, later and with the sage path modus with two eyes he had four clones.
The shockwave is clearly bigger then the island himself, so do the math and you see that the attack would destroy the island.
Also as I said Kaido scales to Whitebeard Ap, that is above island lvl...
Showing how much effect sage path chakra had, even Kakashi pointed it out:
Clearly mean Perfect Susanoo, using normal susanno and the perfect version are clearly two big different things.
And as you said before with spamming, I clearly show that Madara was not spamming perfect Susanoo..
His physical power scales to the one of Whitebeard who is legit country lvl, Kaido is around that lvl...
And Sasuke used the lowest version, not even the semi version...
Perfect Susanoo drain and have more side effects, he for sure can´t spamm it lol, even Adult sage path Sasuke can´t spamm his current dimension teleport and you think none rikudo Madara can spamm something like Perfect Susanoo? Cmon...
He not always spamm perfect Susanoo,in fact that he can´t even spamm his teleport jutsu with sage chakra.
Their is no statement that Perfect Susanoo didn´t drain much stamina, but we clearly have a statement who show how much even the lowest susanoo form effects the body.
Nope he only had one Ringo clone, later and with the sage path modus with two eyes he had four clones.
The shockwave is clearly bigger then the island himself, so do the math and you see that the attack would destroy the island.
Also as I said Kaido scales to Whitebeard Ap, that is above island lvl...
Showing how much effect sage path chakra had, even Kakashi pointed it out:
And Sasuke used the lowest version, not even the semi version...
Perfect Susanoo drain and have more side effects, he for sure can´t spamm it lol, even Adult sage path Sasuke can´t spamm his current dimension teleport and you think none rikudo Madara can spamm something like Perfect Susanoo? Cmon..
That is the case we don´t know how much stamina perfect Susanoo take, I mean even with Sage chakra Sasuke show limits for teleporting, meaning higher end jutsu drain lot of stamina and Madara never used Perfect susanoo over hours or something, even Sasuke just activate it>protect or attack and switch again back... If perfect Susanoo wouldn´t drain lot of chakra, he would not leave the form right?
Madara wasn't in danger against Guy either. Dude reread the arc, even 8 gates guy needed help from to beat Madara, and Madara laughed after guy landed his strongest attack and couldn't kill him.
I already said they were spamming Susanoo, which they were compared to pre EMS portrayal.
WB's DF power scales to island level, not his physical prowess.
And Sasuke used the lowest version, not even the semi version...
Stop using pre -EMS portrayal. Show me War arc Sasuke using his Susanoo with no tax.
show me where it's stated he can't.
You're using Pre EMS statements that have no bearing in this conversation.
making my point.
It isn't, that's your headcanon.
6 paths chakra is not sage chakra, it is residual chakra Obito had from being the Jinchuuriki. Also why are we using a non uchiha in this? their bodies are not accustomed to the sharingan or it's chakra, they have different limits
I already said they were spamming Susanoo, which they were compared to pre EMS portrayal.
WB's DF power scales to island level, not his physical prowess.
And Sasuke used the lowest version, not even the semi version...
show me where it's stated he can't.
You're using Pre EMS statements that have no bearing in this conversation.
making my point.
It isn't, that's your headcanon.
Showing how much effect sage path chakra had, even Kakashi pointed it out:
Almost kill him>You>He was never in danger???
Whiich is wrong since Madara never spamm Perfect Susanoo after he got off from Edo Tensai, aren´t we talking about Madara without sage chakra here??
Luffy punches with his DF power too, doesn´t change his physical power lol.
That is Whitebeard power, Kaido get scaled to that.
We only have the pre Ems statement and it clearly show that Susanoo drains chakra.
You said he was spamming it not me, you have to proof that he can spamm it not me lol...
At least I show one statement, you still fail to prove me that non rikudo Madara can spamm perfect susanoo...
Kakashi gained Obito power/Chakra, he had at this stage the power of the six path, since Obito had the power of sage of six path, he had both chakra power, not just one.
With the MS, Sasuke had huge trouble keeping up initial stages of Susanoo, quickly turning blind. As soon as achieving the EMS, using the last form of Susanoo casually without any strain.
The perfect Susanoo is vastly bigger than the normal Susanoo, its head alone is bigger, yet Madara being able to use it much easier. Of course his Chakra will eventually run out, but he had no problem using it, no sign of strain. Going berserk on Kaido with multiple slashes would kill Kaido quickly.
Again: A single slash of perfect Susanoo's blade, one handed, flattened the entire landscape, destroyed a mountain range and kept travelling beyond the horizont. Now what if the perfect Susanoo uses two blades at once - Nitoryu style? Or even 4, as it has 4 arms, striking with all 4 at once, focusing that attack on Kaido's body? Kaido, even though being tough, does feel blunt force that is strong enough, even without penetration Haki.
The perfect Susanoo could literally burst through Onigashima with each blow.
The perfect Susanoo is vastly bigger than the normal Susanoo, its head alone is bigger, yet Madara being able to use it much easier. Of course his Chakra will eventually run out, but he had no problem using it, no sign of strain. Going berserk on Kaido with multiple slashes would kill Kaido quickly.
Again: A single slash of perfect Susanoo's blade, one handed, flattened the entire landscape, destroyed a mountain range and kept travelling beyond the horizont. Now what if the perfect Susanoo uses two blades at once - Nitoryu style? Or even 4, as it has 4 arms, striking with all 4 at once, focusing that attack on Kaido's body? Kaido, even though being tough, does feel blunt force that is strong enough, even without penetration Haki.
The perfect Susanoo could literally burst through Onigashima with each blow.
Almost kill him>You>He was never in danger???
Again, stop deviating. Is this all you guys do to prop up Kaido?
Re read my post, I said spam Susanoo and again, compared to pre EMS Susanoo rules it was spam. Sasuke was panting and straining while using it, so was Itachi.
This is really bad faith dude, gtfo lmao
Not physical prowess, huge difference between an abilty that is active 24/7 to one you turn on. Kaido physical prowess has never been island lv. Could you argue his dragon form can? maybe.
And EMS negates all of that as seen how Sasuke was using Susanoo pre EMS.
Yeah and again like I've said, Sasuke and Madara were spamming Susanoo compared to Pre EMS portrayal which you are acting like it still applied. I'm using context, you aren't.
I don't need too, Post EMS Sasuke shows Susanoo stopped being a huge tax on the body.
Kakashi still didn't have the Uchiha body therefore he's not even an applicable comparison and what does this have to do with anything? stop deviating.
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Madara didn't use mountains as training tools, stop coping.
You understand the difference between using mountains as training tools and actually causing environmental damage in a battle? Garp was destroying mountains but he also overpowered an attack which split a large ice island. No amount of coping will change that.
"Kaido can barely destroy a mountain", what a tremendous joke...
What exactly am I making up? Listen man, I'm not this emotionally ingested when it comes to Naruto characters vs OP characters. When it comes to crossover battles, I simply debate rationally; thus, scaling is a valid way too, especially since Kaido factually replicated Whitebeard's and Shanks' skysplit feat twice.
No, it is not. Again, you're spewing bullshit.
Whitebeard can decide how much powerful his earthquakes can be, this has nothing to do with "AOE", it's straight up AP. Look at Primebeard almost sinking an entire island for shouting - that's a much better performance than anything Sickbeard demonstrated so far.
Also, you say his quake punch on Akainu was AP? How comes? Where's the difference? Please enlighten me.
Btw, it did this much:
In contrast to your claim, Whitebeard split the island as collateral damage although most of the energy was focused on Akainu.
And that's somewhat impressive? Country > Island > Mountain > City.
Juubi spammed bijuu damas and couldn't even destroy the Frost Country. Also, funny how your argument consists of "character x did it casually" as if it's actually meaningful in a debate. If that's the best they have shown on panel, it's a no limit fallacy to argue about their potential stronger attacks.
As I said, feats and scaling matter the most. It's irrelevant how casual characters demonstrated feats or are you this kind of debater who thinks Saitama is somewhat omnipotent because he's casual the entire time?
Again, because both are top tiers.
Do you even read the manga? Kaido cannot even sniff his shoes? Based on what actually or it is another baseless headcanon? The canon highly shows of Kaido being comparable to WB, especially Sickbeard, so nice try.
It does; Kaido's AP is factually top tier.
Lol...
Only because EMS doesn't have these annoying drawbacks anymore, doesn't mean PS ain't a huge chakra-consuming technique. There's obviously a difference if Madara uses a basic Katon jutsu or spams susanoo lmao.
No, you argue with lowball, headcanon and NLFs.
The moment you used NLF, you basically lost the argument but keep entertaining me bro.
1.) The bijuu played ping-pong with Madara and his second strongest susanoo got easily smashed by Kurama's tail. I'd like to see Madara taking Hakai or Ragnarok point-blank. Furthermore, the moment Kaido realised they can't do anything to him, he destroyed them in base while constantly lifting an entire island. Madara needs soul stealing techniques to kill Kaido, otherwise a one shot is unlikely.
2.) I don't really care for your feelings man. Scaling is a valid thing in crossover battles but in Kaido's case, his feats are comparable to other top tier feats too. I see no issue here. Also, sky split and Hakai is still better.
3.) This is a move which would even kill Madara. And again, unless there are feats for a far better Chibaku Tensei, it's baseless too. At best Madara's Chibaku Tensei will be relative to his general power which is, again, not significantly above Kaido's.
4.) Restraint in what way? Mokuton? Unless Madara knocks him down, I don't see how Kaido should be unconscious at all, not to mention that Madara can be thunderbagua'ed as well.
I don't recall any of this information.
Do you have the evidence that it renders the user near paralyzed while being pulled? Also, these techniques - at least Shinra Tensei and Bansho Tenin - have a 5 sec time intervall, do you know that? If it doesn't work, Madara might get thunderbagua'ed.
True but as I said, COO is not just about sensing intent, it's like the 6th sense. It's basically sharingan and sennin mode combined - but better.
Madara can only read attacks which are not too fast; TB is a technique which amplifies Kaido's speed even further to the point when it nearly speedblitzed a FS user.
Also, you sure can add sennin mode - at best its sensoring or predicting skills can somewhat match basic COO, the more advanced stuff is obviously too high.
Instant teleportation is teleportation, Sasuke's was more tricky in which he managed to blitz Juudara.
But it's definitely a weird way since there's a teleportation portal which ports someone with light speed. Well, not that it matters since this type of teleportation even fucked up the Third Raikage, and I doubt Minato's FTG is as fast as that.
Kaido couldn't handle shambles since he was fighting several opponents lol.
As I said, this is a technique similar to Sasuke's - which fucked Madara up as well - so I don't know how it's relevant to point out when far weaker characters like Vergo, who also tanks a lot, easily matched the initial teleportation when Law was about to get his heart back.
Shambles is just a more unpredictable technique which can be really effective in certain circumstances.
1.) What? Kaido's length literally spans almost half of the city, this is not big? Also, tell me this, one of these mountains significantly dwarfs a number (67m) a few times in size, yet Kaido is bigger than it:
2.) How should it easily restrain Dragon Kaido and a giant water prison? What? Now we're making up stuff? It's ironic considering you cried about simple OP top tier scaling but give imaginary techniques and feats to Madara - another prime example of no limit fallacy. I could also say "Kaido hasn't shown awakening yet but he could pull out a much higher Hakai in awakening for sure"...
I get you missed this point: "IIRC it was about chakra-based attacks, so feel free to correct me about this with evidence."
Amaterasu isn't a chakra-based attack?
At best Madara can absorb Ryuo-based attacks but every other hakiless attack would bypass the absorption.
No man...
See, I was giving Madara the benefit of the doubt to have mastered a few - or let's say a lot - of basic Suiton jutsus but there is NO EVIDENCE he also mastered Kisame's Suiton jutsus or any other high level suiton jutsu which can be dangerous to Kaido. Again, you give him imaginary techniques.
Also, what's up with you and these odd Suiton arguments? These Suiton jutsu arguments are so random af. I can't really believe you just came out on a whim like that. Do you often argue about similar match-ups, Roo?
It's rather pretty stupid to argue about Suiton jutsus which Madara "could have possibly learnt during his entire lifetime" which is just baseless crap.
It's a great feat nonetheless but it's not a tanking feat, that's for sure. Therefore, it's not a good argument considering Madara "didn't even care" when Gai ripped a chunk of his body with his ultimate attack. Well, not that it matters since we're talking about Rinnegan Madara anyways.
You understand the difference between using mountains as training tools and actually causing environmental damage in a battle? Garp was destroying mountains but he also overpowered an attack which split a large ice island. No amount of coping will change that.
"Kaido can barely destroy a mountain", what a tremendous joke...
What exactly am I making up? Listen man, I'm not this emotionally ingested when it comes to Naruto characters vs OP characters. When it comes to crossover battles, I simply debate rationally; thus, scaling is a valid way too, especially since Kaido factually replicated Whitebeard's and Shanks' skysplit feat twice.
No, it is not. Again, you're spewing bullshit.
Whitebeard can decide how much powerful his earthquakes can be, this has nothing to do with "AOE", it's straight up AP. Look at Primebeard almost sinking an entire island for shouting - that's a much better performance than anything Sickbeard demonstrated so far.
Also, you say his quake punch on Akainu was AP? How comes? Where's the difference? Please enlighten me.
Btw, it did this much:
In contrast to your claim, Whitebeard split the island as collateral damage although most of the energy was focused on Akainu.
And that's somewhat impressive? Country > Island > Mountain > City.
Juubi spammed bijuu damas and couldn't even destroy the Frost Country. Also, funny how your argument consists of "character x did it casually" as if it's actually meaningful in a debate. If that's the best they have shown on panel, it's a no limit fallacy to argue about their potential stronger attacks.
As I said, feats and scaling matter the most. It's irrelevant how casual characters demonstrated feats or are you this kind of debater who thinks Saitama is somewhat omnipotent because he's casual the entire time?
Again, because both are top tiers.
Do you even read the manga? Kaido cannot even sniff his shoes? Based on what actually or it is another baseless headcanon? The canon highly shows of Kaido being comparable to WB, especially Sickbeard, so nice try.
It does; Kaido's AP is factually top tier.
Lol...
Only because EMS doesn't have these annoying drawbacks anymore, doesn't mean PS ain't a huge chakra-consuming technique. There's obviously a difference if Madara uses a basic Katon jutsu or spams susanoo lmao.
No, you argue with lowball, headcanon and NLFs.
The moment you used NLF, you basically lost the argument but keep entertaining me bro.
1.) The bijuu played ping-pong with Madara and his second strongest susanoo got easily smashed by Kurama's tail. I'd like to see Madara taking Hakai or Ragnarok point-blank. Furthermore, the moment Kaido realised they can't do anything to him, he destroyed them in base while constantly lifting an entire island. Madara needs soul stealing techniques to kill Kaido, otherwise a one shot is unlikely.
2.) I don't really care for your feelings man. Scaling is a valid thing in crossover battles but in Kaido's case, his feats are comparable to other top tier feats too. I see no issue here. Also, sky split and Hakai is still better.
3.) This is a move which would even kill Madara. And again, unless there are feats for a far better Chibaku Tensei, it's baseless too. At best Madara's Chibaku Tensei will be relative to his general power which is, again, not significantly above Kaido's.
4.) Restraint in what way? Mokuton? Unless Madara knocks him down, I don't see how Kaido should be unconscious at all, not to mention that Madara can be thunderbagua'ed as well.
I don't recall any of this information.
Do you have the evidence that it renders the user near paralyzed while being pulled? Also, these techniques - at least Shinra Tensei and Bansho Tenin - have a 5 sec time intervall, do you know that? If it doesn't work, Madara might get thunderbagua'ed.
True but as I said, COO is not just about sensing intent, it's like the 6th sense. It's basically sharingan and sennin mode combined - but better.
Madara can only read attacks which are not too fast; TB is a technique which amplifies Kaido's speed even further to the point when it nearly speedblitzed a FS user.
Also, you sure can add sennin mode - at best its sensoring or predicting skills can somewhat match basic COO, the more advanced stuff is obviously too high.
Instant teleportation is teleportation, Sasuke's was more tricky in which he managed to blitz Juudara.
But it's definitely a weird way since there's a teleportation portal which ports someone with light speed. Well, not that it matters since this type of teleportation even fucked up the Third Raikage, and I doubt Minato's FTG is as fast as that.
Kaido couldn't handle shambles since he was fighting several opponents lol.
As I said, this is a technique similar to Sasuke's - which fucked Madara up as well - so I don't know how it's relevant to point out when far weaker characters like Vergo, who also tanks a lot, easily matched the initial teleportation when Law was about to get his heart back.
Shambles is just a more unpredictable technique which can be really effective in certain circumstances.
1.) What? Kaido's length literally spans almost half of the city, this is not big? Also, tell me this, one of these mountains significantly dwarfs a number (67m) a few times in size, yet Kaido is bigger than it:
2.) How should it easily restrain Dragon Kaido and a giant water prison? What? Now we're making up stuff? It's ironic considering you cried about simple OP top tier scaling but give imaginary techniques and feats to Madara - another prime example of no limit fallacy. I could also say "Kaido hasn't shown awakening yet but he could pull out a much higher Hakai in awakening for sure"...
I get you missed this point: "IIRC it was about chakra-based attacks, so feel free to correct me about this with evidence."
Amaterasu isn't a chakra-based attack?
At best Madara can absorb Ryuo-based attacks but every other hakiless attack would bypass the absorption.
No man...
See, I was giving Madara the benefit of the doubt to have mastered a few - or let's say a lot - of basic Suiton jutsus but there is NO EVIDENCE he also mastered Kisame's Suiton jutsus or any other high level suiton jutsu which can be dangerous to Kaido. Again, you give him imaginary techniques.
Also, what's up with you and these odd Suiton arguments? These Suiton jutsu arguments are so random af. I can't really believe you just came out on a whim like that. Do you often argue about similar match-ups, Roo?
It's rather pretty stupid to argue about Suiton jutsus which Madara "could have possibly learnt during his entire lifetime" which is just baseless crap.
It's a great feat nonetheless but it's not a tanking feat, that's for sure. Therefore, it's not a good argument considering Madara "didn't even care" when Gai ripped a chunk of his body with his ultimate attack. Well, not that it matters since we're talking about Rinnegan Madara anyways.
C
Casual multi-mountain busting is definitely top tier AP in One Piece. And Kaido doesn't scale to the Gura Gura's power.
The fact Garp trained by busting mountains implies it took him some level of effort to pull it off anyway...and we don't know whether it was using a single hit or a series of attacks.
The fact Garp trained by busting mountains implies it took him some level of effort to pull it off anyway...and we don't know whether it was using a single hit or a series of attacks.
If it's about environmental damage, Kaido cannot replicate the same damage but if these two were about to clash with each other, I don't think Kaido would necessarily lose the clash. After all, Akainu equally clashed with a quake punch too. And the admirals blocked a large quake attack with just barrier haki. Thus, an AdCOC infused club attack could equally match Sickbeard's, it's not farfetched.
Well, we see Zoro lifting weight which can't possibly weight similarly to an actual mountain sized golem which got lifted by his slashes. And like you said, we don't know how Garp destroyed these mountains either. Did he use advanced levels of Haki to destroy these or did he just randomly punch at them? Yet, his training was effective enough to overpower Chinjao's drill attack which split an island before.
Well, we see Zoro lifting weight which can't possibly weight similarly to an actual mountain sized golem which got lifted by his slashes. And like you said, we don't know how Garp destroyed these mountains either. Did he use advanced levels of Haki to destroy these or did he just randomly punch at them? Yet, his training was effective enough to overpower Chinjao's drill attack which split an island before.
And as I said using Susanoo for few times or spamming iit are total two different things.
And he wrote this:
He cannot spamm it that is literally a bullshit.
If he want to compare perfect Susanoo with a semi version, then he is dead wrong.
In fact why he would used his semi form against the Bijuu and not his perfect susanoo if it diidn´t drain his power?
Sasuke had the six path power, he was able to spamm it and as I show, even Adult Sasuke show, you cannot spamm your ability, he cannot teleport almost over hours and we talking here about a fight who goes over hours most like, Madara would need whole time against Kaido his perfect Susanoo or he iis done...
Not a bad feat but Kaido half power(wasn´t even his strongest move) was about to destroy Onigashima, Whitebeard attack literally shake islands far away from Marineford(easily 100-1000kms), Roger vs Whitebeard literally shake island+ocean because just of adv CoC clash.
You guys underestimate the power behind Kaido attack...
Saying he was never in danger is nonsense and you know it.
Dude literally lose his hand and was about to get clapped by the Bijuus, if Zetsu was not around.
Madara is a fighter, him laughing doesn´t mean that he wasn´t in danger lol, I feeling like that you never understand Madara character in first place.
As I said with EMS Sasuke could use perfectly the semi versions, but he couldn´t use perfect susanoo.
You know that Susanno is a manifest form of chakra and it eat a lot right?
Sasuke with greater chakra can use perfect susanoo. But it doesn´t mean he can spamm it, as Madara said perfect susanoo was his final form. Sasuke as adult can´t even spamm his teleport jutsu and you talking here like he going to spamm it for hours??
So you believe Kaido can´t block or clash with Whitebeard quake attacks?
Are we now even reach that point when you thiink that Kaido with adv CoC swing of his club can´t match Oldbeard Quake punch??
And now think twice, if Sasuke without EMS can´t barely hold up the weakest version of Susanoo, you think Susanoo who is based on chakra can be used by Sasuke for hours? I mean ofc Perfect Susanoo...
When he shows that perfect Susanoo not has a huge tax??
Still waiting for the post and before you come up with the fight against Kaguya, that was Six path Sasuke soo...
Don´t you understand, it doesn´t matter if he had Uchiha body or not(never was even a point), he had the chakra and eyes in his body which is enough.
And the post overall not make sense that you use lines like"Sasuke used Susanoo after he got EMS), he used not the perfect susanoo and this is the case here, outside of perfect susanoo, nothing of Madara skills are capable to destroy mountains+. He need perfect Susanoo to match Kaido physical power.
And he wrote this:
He cannot spamm it that is literally a bullshit.
If he want to compare perfect Susanoo with a semi version, then he is dead wrong.
In fact why he would used his semi form against the Bijuu and not his perfect susanoo if it diidn´t drain his power?
Sasuke had the six path power, he was able to spamm it and as I show, even Adult Sasuke show, you cannot spamm your ability, he cannot teleport almost over hours and we talking here about a fight who goes over hours most like, Madara would need whole time against Kaido his perfect Susanoo or he iis done...
Not a bad feat but Kaido half power(wasn´t even his strongest move) was about to destroy Onigashima, Whitebeard attack literally shake islands far away from Marineford(easily 100-1000kms), Roger vs Whitebeard literally shake island+ocean because just of adv CoC clash.
You guys underestimate the power behind Kaido attack...
Saying he was never in danger is nonsense and you know it.
Dude literally lose his hand and was about to get clapped by the Bijuus, if Zetsu was not around.
Madara is a fighter, him laughing doesn´t mean that he wasn´t in danger lol, I feeling like that you never understand Madara character in first place.
As I said with EMS Sasuke could use perfectly the semi versions, but he couldn´t use perfect susanoo.
You know that Susanno is a manifest form of chakra and it eat a lot right?
Sasuke with greater chakra can use perfect susanoo. But it doesn´t mean he can spamm it, as Madara said perfect susanoo was his final form. Sasuke as adult can´t even spamm his teleport jutsu and you talking here like he going to spamm it for hours??
So you believe Kaido can´t block or clash with Whitebeard quake attacks?
Are we now even reach that point when you thiink that Kaido with adv CoC swing of his club can´t match Oldbeard Quake punch??
And now think twice, if Sasuke without EMS can´t barely hold up the weakest version of Susanoo, you think Susanoo who is based on chakra can be used by Sasuke for hours? I mean ofc Perfect Susanoo...
When he shows that perfect Susanoo not has a huge tax??
Still waiting for the post and before you come up with the fight against Kaguya, that was Six path Sasuke soo...
Don´t you understand, it doesn´t matter if he had Uchiha body or not(never was even a point), he had the chakra and eyes in his body which is enough.
And the post overall not make sense that you use lines like"Sasuke used Susanoo after he got EMS), he used not the perfect susanoo and this is the case here, outside of perfect susanoo, nothing of Madara skills are capable to destroy mountains+. He need perfect Susanoo to match Kaido physical power.
C
I can see them trading blows as well, so to an extent Kaido does scale to his power, just not the full output. Like if WB's max is country level i wouldn't grant Kaido the same. Garp as well imo is arguably a heavier hitter hitter than Kaido.
I'm not saying mountain busting isn't relatively easy for top tiers, just that if you have that kind of power you're definitely a top tier, at least in this specific stat. I'd say Madara's sword swings would definitely fuck Kaido up, just not enough to put him down.
I'm not saying mountain busting isn't relatively easy for top tiers, just that if you have that kind of power you're definitely a top tier, at least in this specific stat. I'd say Madara's sword swings would definitely fuck Kaido up, just not enough to put him down.
The EMS has been proven to massively decrease side effects. EMS Sasuke was using the last stage of Susanoo casually without strain. And Madara is the reincarnation of Indra (so is Sasuke) but at his peak, at his prime.
Because his DF is specifically designed for that. Creating vibrations over a large area. Causing earthquakes 500km away isn't a combat feat. Also, DC in form of a sword slash is more impressive, as it only cuts the affected area. And one one-handed swipe with the sword cleans the entire landscape and cuts through a mountain range with dozens of mountains. And Susanoo has basically 4 arms to hit a target with 4 swords at once.
An area considerably larger than Onigashima wiped out with one swipe of the sword, which is probably just 1/4 of the perfect Susanoo's max damage output per attack.
Because his DF is specifically designed for that. Creating vibrations over a large area. Causing earthquakes 500km away isn't a combat feat. Also, DC in form of a sword slash is more impressive, as it only cuts the affected area. And one one-handed swipe with the sword cleans the entire landscape and cuts through a mountain range with dozens of mountains. And Susanoo has basically 4 arms to hit a target with 4 swords at once.
An area considerably larger than Onigashima wiped out with one swipe of the sword, which is probably just 1/4 of the perfect Susanoo's max damage output per attack.