Chapter Discussion Rokushiki is based on Haki
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Doesent this proof that Rokushiki aint Haki? Else Lucci's Shigan would've killed Luffy here.
100% Proof that Katakuri doesn't have Haki. Luffy stretches, therefore no Haki, amirite?
Proof that Jozu doesn't have Haki. If he had Haki Aokii should have broken and died? Right?
Proof that Ryou isn't Haki.
This is Ryou, definitely.
This panel 100000% proves that Ryou isn't Haki.
Proof that Shanks doesn't have CoO
What you've discovered is proof that Oda didn't have haki fleshed out before the timeskip.
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If the manga says Rokushiki is Haki, than that's the end of it. Arguing makes no sense. There is only reconciling the inconsistencies, not arguing that the words don't mean what they mean.
Doesent this proof that Rokushiki aint Haki? Else Lucci's Shigan would've killed Luffy here.
Proof that Jozu doesn't have Haki. If he had Haki Aokii should have broken and died? Right?
Proof that Ryou isn't Haki.
This is Ryou, definitely.
This panel 100000% proves that Ryou isn't Haki.
Proof that Shanks doesn't have CoO
What you've discovered is proof that Oda didn't have haki fleshed out before the timeskip.
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If the manga says Rokushiki is Haki, than that's the end of it. Arguing makes no sense. There is only reconciling the inconsistencies, not arguing that the words don't mean what they mean.
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I trust what the Vivre Cards suggest. They are revisioned by the greatest Grandmaster of all. Gods sama himself.
It's not healthy to imagine panel consistency to be so elevatedly accurate, just think of how the OP physics work. The Lucci vs Luffy situation is potentially ok when we factor this stuff.
It's not healthy to imagine panel consistency to be so elevatedly accurate, just think of how the OP physics work. The Lucci vs Luffy situation is potentially ok when we factor this stuff.
It’s a really bad retcon because Oda didn’t think of CoA in particular until later in the series. No, it doesn’t make sense, you’ll be able to pick apart panels that show how dumb it is, but it also didn‘t make sense for the government to have a super secret assassin organisation without basic Haki.
But yes, Kami-e is CoO (which isn’t so bad), Tekkai is CoA, Rokugan might be advanced CoA. Shigan and Rankyaku are still just regular old martial arts.
But yes, Kami-e is CoO (which isn’t so bad), Tekkai is CoA, Rokugan might be advanced CoA. Shigan and Rankyaku are still just regular old martial arts.
You can pick apart panels of CoA Pre Ts and CoA post TS, or CoA early post-TS and CoA later post TS. Oda's skill is tying it all back together and making it work.
Best example is Spider-Man between linked to a mythical Spider-god which compelled the spider to pass its powers to him because it is the destiny of Peter Parkers to always be Spider-Man, or The Flash getting his powers from his future self. You can pick it apart till the cows come home, but it is what it is.
Best example is Spider-Man between linked to a mythical Spider-god which compelled the spider to pass its powers to him because it is the destiny of Peter Parkers to always be Spider-Man, or The Flash getting his powers from his future self. You can pick it apart till the cows come home, but it is what it is.
Wrong. VC never said that. The VC just implied that Lucci improved the combination of his Haki and Rokushiki.
The thing is that Rokushiki was said from the beginning to be a "martial art", powers they achieved through physical training. It differs from Haki all along.
Here Blueno again says more than clearly that Tekkai is a physical based techniques they learned through body training. Nothing to do with CoA which is a mentally build armor.
Read Chapter 348 and you see by the explanations that Rokushiki is a physical based technique and thus completely differs from Haki.
Non sense, looks like you didnt even understand Haki and now try to talk about Rokushiki?
Haki is not Kairoseki, obviously Katakuri touching Luffy with Haki doesent mean that the rest of Luffy's body cant stretch.
Again wrong. Logia works different. Look at when Luffy grabbed Smoker (with Tashigi's heart) at Punk Hazard - he basically grabbed smoke, its not like that he grabbed the human body of Smoker.
Similar with Jozu's attack, the moment he touched Aokiji's body he was able to manifest his body and damage him with CoA, but only the touched area and only at the very time he toched him. That's why Aokiji's body broke into Ice immedeatly after he got catched away and had no contact with Jozu's CoA no more, and yet got damaged slightly (only slightly due to his impressive durability).
Looks like Zoro was just not concentrated well enough when he sliced Enel.
That's 100% the truth. Oda didnt know about Haki, its final concept and importance later in the story. I believe its only starting from Sabaody when Oda slowly properly introduced that ability and realized that Mantra works exactly like CoO and that's why he said Mantra = CoO. Which does not mean Rokushiki, a completely different technique than Haki from ground on, is suddenly Haki based as well. that makes no sense whatsoever.
Jinbei literally head on admitted that he never saw the 6 powers before, which is a clear confirmation that Haki =/= Rokushiki, he can even use CoA and CoO himself, let alone seeing it from others.
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Yes. They did suggest that Cp9 had Haki pre Ts and as for Lucci that he improved his Haki/Rokushiki combination over the Ts. Nothing that implies that Rokushiki and Haki should be the same or even similar... "Lucci improved his Rokushiki based Haki" is like saying "Zoro improved his swordsmanship based Haki" - everyone with a little knowledge of the english language knows that it doesent even the slightest refer to Haki and Rokushiki being the same nor similar.
The thing is that Rokushiki was said from the beginning to be a "martial art", powers they achieved through physical training. It differs from Haki all along.
Here Blueno again says more than clearly that Tekkai is a physical based techniques they learned through body training. Nothing to do with CoA which is a mentally build armor.
Read Chapter 348 and you see by the explanations that Rokushiki is a physical based technique and thus completely differs from Haki.
Non sense, looks like you didnt even understand Haki and now try to talk about Rokushiki?
Haki is not Kairoseki, obviously Katakuri touching Luffy with Haki doesent mean that the rest of Luffy's body cant stretch.
Again wrong. Logia works different. Look at when Luffy grabbed Smoker (with Tashigi's heart) at Punk Hazard - he basically grabbed smoke, its not like that he grabbed the human body of Smoker.
Similar with Jozu's attack, the moment he touched Aokiji's body he was able to manifest his body and damage him with CoA, but only the touched area and only at the very time he toched him. That's why Aokiji's body broke into Ice immedeatly after he got catched away and had no contact with Jozu's CoA no more, and yet got damaged slightly (only slightly due to his impressive durability).
Looks like Zoro was just not concentrated well enough when he sliced Enel.
That's 100% the truth. Oda didnt know about Haki, its final concept and importance later in the story. I believe its only starting from Sabaody when Oda slowly properly introduced that ability and realized that Mantra works exactly like CoO and that's why he said Mantra = CoO. Which does not mean Rokushiki, a completely different technique than Haki from ground on, is suddenly Haki based as well. that makes no sense whatsoever.
Jinbei literally head on admitted that he never saw the 6 powers before, which is a clear confirmation that Haki =/= Rokushiki, he can even use CoA and CoO himself, let alone seeing it from others.
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Yes. They did suggest that Cp9 had Haki pre Ts and as for Lucci that he improved his Haki/Rokushiki combination over the Ts. Nothing that implies that Rokushiki and Haki should be the same or even similar... "Lucci improved his Rokushiki based Haki" is like saying "Zoro improved his swordsmanship based Haki" - everyone with a little knowledge of the english language knows that it doesent even the slightest refer to Haki and Rokushiki being the same nor similar.
Not all rokoushiki techniques are based on haki. So don't know why you brought up the soru argument. It's clear that tekkai, geppo, shigan, and rankayuku are based on haki though. Been telling people this.
Tekkai is pre-armament haki
Shigan is applying that tekkai into a one finger or one point to actually cause more harm. It would explain why stucy and Lucci and Who's who's are able to fire it like a long range blast as well since it incorporates ryou.
Geppo is also ryou influenced since they are hopping off of air. It has nothing to do with leg strength since even stronger people aren't seen doing it and it has nothing to do with how light weighted you are since we have seen heavy people do it. The only logical way to hop off of air is to solidify or to project haki making a sort of platform that can be hopped on.
Rankyaku is obviously haki/ryou influenced since you have to sharpen the dexterity of your legs to produced a long air slash affect. Kicking hard may make Shockwave. But those Shockwave will be blunt. And will operate more like a cannon. However the.pest kick produces a cutting affect. How can something as blunt as a leg kick produce a cutting slash? The only way is if that person coats there leg and sharpens it to cut anything.
So it was straight forward to me that roukishi had some dealings with haki. Even if it was haki on low level
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Bullshit. Haki does not translate to just Will. The true definition of haki is the manifestation and the materialization of one's spirit into the physical.
Tekkai is pre-armament haki
Shigan is applying that tekkai into a one finger or one point to actually cause more harm. It would explain why stucy and Lucci and Who's who's are able to fire it like a long range blast as well since it incorporates ryou.
Geppo is also ryou influenced since they are hopping off of air. It has nothing to do with leg strength since even stronger people aren't seen doing it and it has nothing to do with how light weighted you are since we have seen heavy people do it. The only logical way to hop off of air is to solidify or to project haki making a sort of platform that can be hopped on.
Rankyaku is obviously haki/ryou influenced since you have to sharpen the dexterity of your legs to produced a long air slash affect. Kicking hard may make Shockwave. But those Shockwave will be blunt. And will operate more like a cannon. However the.pest kick produces a cutting affect. How can something as blunt as a leg kick produce a cutting slash? The only way is if that person coats there leg and sharpens it to cut anything.
So it was straight forward to me that roukishi had some dealings with haki. Even if it was haki on low level
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Bullshit. Haki does not translate to just Will. The true definition of haki is the manifestation and the materialization of one's spirit into the physical.
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Wrong. VC never said that. The VC just implied that Lucci improved the combination of his Haki and Rokushiki.
The thing is that Rokushiki was said from the beginning to be a "martial art", powers they achieved through physical training. It differs from Haki all along.
Here Blueno again says more than clearly that Tekkai is a physical based techniques they learned through body training. Nothing to do with CoA which is a mentally build armor.
Read Chapter 348 and you see by the explanations that Rokushiki is a physical based technique and thus completely differs from Haki.
Non sense, looks like you didnt even understand Haki and now try to talk about Rokushiki?
Haki is not Kairoseki, obviously Katakuri touching Luffy with Haki doesent mean that the rest of Luffy's body cant stretch.
Again wrong. Logia works different. Look at when Luffy grabbed Smoker (with Tashigi's heart) at Punk Hazard - he basically grabbed smoke, its not like that he grabbed the human body of Smoker.
Similar with Jozu's attack, the moment he touched Aokiji's body he was able to manifest his body and damage him with CoA, but only the touched area and only at the very time he toched him. That's why Aokiji's body broke into Ice immedeatly after he got catched away and had no contact with Jozu's CoA no more, and yet got damaged slightly (only slightly due to his impressive durability).
Looks like Zoro was just not concentrated well enough when he sliced Enel.
That's 100% the truth. Oda didnt know about Haki, its final concept and importance later in the story. I believe its only starting from Sabaody when Oda slowly properly introduced that ability and realized that Mantra works exactly like CoO and that's why he said Mantra = CoO. Which does not mean Rokushiki, a completely different technique than Haki from ground on, is suddenly Haki based as well. that makes no sense whatsoever.
Jinbei literally head on admitted that he never saw the 6 powers before, which is a clear confirmation that Haki =/= Rokushiki, he can even use CoA and CoO himself, let alone seeing it from others.
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Yes. They did suggest that Cp9 had Haki pre Ts and as for Lucci that he improved his Haki/Rokushiki combination over the Ts. Nothing that implies that Rokushiki and Haki should be the same or even similar... "Lucci improved his Rokushiki based Haki" is like saying "Zoro improved his swordsmanship based Haki" - everyone with a little knowledge of the english language knows that it doesent even the slightest refer to Haki and Rokushiki being the same nor similar.
The thing is that Rokushiki was said from the beginning to be a "martial art", powers they achieved through physical training. It differs from Haki all along.
Here Blueno again says more than clearly that Tekkai is a physical based techniques they learned through body training. Nothing to do with CoA which is a mentally build armor.
Read Chapter 348 and you see by the explanations that Rokushiki is a physical based technique and thus completely differs from Haki.
Non sense, looks like you didnt even understand Haki and now try to talk about Rokushiki?
Haki is not Kairoseki, obviously Katakuri touching Luffy with Haki doesent mean that the rest of Luffy's body cant stretch.
Again wrong. Logia works different. Look at when Luffy grabbed Smoker (with Tashigi's heart) at Punk Hazard - he basically grabbed smoke, its not like that he grabbed the human body of Smoker.
Similar with Jozu's attack, the moment he touched Aokiji's body he was able to manifest his body and damage him with CoA, but only the touched area and only at the very time he toched him. That's why Aokiji's body broke into Ice immedeatly after he got catched away and had no contact with Jozu's CoA no more, and yet got damaged slightly (only slightly due to his impressive durability).
Looks like Zoro was just not concentrated well enough when he sliced Enel.
That's 100% the truth. Oda didnt know about Haki, its final concept and importance later in the story. I believe its only starting from Sabaody when Oda slowly properly introduced that ability and realized that Mantra works exactly like CoO and that's why he said Mantra = CoO. Which does not mean Rokushiki, a completely different technique than Haki from ground on, is suddenly Haki based as well. that makes no sense whatsoever.
Jinbei literally head on admitted that he never saw the 6 powers before, which is a clear confirmation that Haki =/= Rokushiki, he can even use CoA and CoO himself, let alone seeing it from others.
[automerge]1625833456[/automerge]
Yes. They did suggest that Cp9 had Haki pre Ts and as for Lucci that he improved his Haki/Rokushiki combination over the Ts. Nothing that implies that Rokushiki and Haki should be the same or even similar... "Lucci improved his Rokushiki based Haki" is like saying "Zoro improved his swordsmanship based Haki" - everyone with a little knowledge of the english language knows that it doesent even the slightest refer to Haki and Rokushiki being the same nor similar.
Is it possible to post direct source?
Wrong. VC never said that. The VC just implied that Lucci improved the combination of his Haki and Rokushiki.
The thing is that Rokushiki was said from the beginning to be a "martial art", powers they achieved through physical training. It differs from Haki all along.
Here Blueno again says more than clearly that Tekkai is a physical based techniques they learned through body training. Nothing to do with CoA which is a mentally build armor.
Read Chapter 348 and you see by the explanations that Rokushiki is a physical based technique and thus completely differs from Haki.
Non sense, looks like you didnt even understand Haki and now try to talk about Rokushiki?
Haki is not Kairoseki, obviously Katakuri touching Luffy with Haki doesent mean that the rest of Luffy's body cant stretch.
Again wrong. Logia works different. Look at when Luffy grabbed Smoker (with Tashigi's heart) at Punk Hazard - he basically grabbed smoke, its not like that he grabbed the human body of Smoker.
Similar with Jozu's attack, the moment he touched Aokiji's body he was able to manifest his body and damage him with CoA, but only the touched area and only at the very time he toched him. That's why Aokiji's body broke into Ice immedeatly after he got catched away and had no contact with Jozu's CoA no more, and yet got damaged slightly (only slightly due to his impressive durability).
Looks like Zoro was just not concentrated well enough when he sliced Enel.
That's 100% the truth. Oda didnt know about Haki, its final concept and importance later in the story. I believe its only starting from Sabaody when Oda slowly properly introduced that ability and realized that Mantra works exactly like CoO and that's why he said Mantra = CoO. Which does not mean Rokushiki, a completely different technique than Haki from ground on, is suddenly Haki based as well. that makes no sense whatsoever.
Jinbei literally head on admitted that he never saw the 6 powers before, which is a clear confirmation that Haki =/= Rokushiki, he can even use CoA and CoO himself, let alone seeing it from others.
[automerge]1625833456[/automerge]
Yes. They did suggest that Cp9 had Haki pre Ts and as for Lucci that he improved his Haki/Rokushiki combination over the Ts. Nothing that implies that Rokushiki and Haki should be the same or even similar... "Lucci improved his Rokushiki based Haki" is like saying "Zoro improved his swordsmanship based Haki" - everyone with a little knowledge of the english language knows that it doesent even the slightest refer to Haki and Rokushiki being the same nor similar.
The thing is that Rokushiki was said from the beginning to be a "martial art", powers they achieved through physical training. It differs from Haki all along.
Here Blueno again says more than clearly that Tekkai is a physical based techniques they learned through body training. Nothing to do with CoA which is a mentally build armor.
Read Chapter 348 and you see by the explanations that Rokushiki is a physical based technique and thus completely differs from Haki.
Non sense, looks like you didnt even understand Haki and now try to talk about Rokushiki?
Haki is not Kairoseki, obviously Katakuri touching Luffy with Haki doesent mean that the rest of Luffy's body cant stretch.
Again wrong. Logia works different. Look at when Luffy grabbed Smoker (with Tashigi's heart) at Punk Hazard - he basically grabbed smoke, its not like that he grabbed the human body of Smoker.
Similar with Jozu's attack, the moment he touched Aokiji's body he was able to manifest his body and damage him with CoA, but only the touched area and only at the very time he toched him. That's why Aokiji's body broke into Ice immedeatly after he got catched away and had no contact with Jozu's CoA no more, and yet got damaged slightly (only slightly due to his impressive durability).
Looks like Zoro was just not concentrated well enough when he sliced Enel.
That's 100% the truth. Oda didnt know about Haki, its final concept and importance later in the story. I believe its only starting from Sabaody when Oda slowly properly introduced that ability and realized that Mantra works exactly like CoO and that's why he said Mantra = CoO. Which does not mean Rokushiki, a completely different technique than Haki from ground on, is suddenly Haki based as well. that makes no sense whatsoever.
Jinbei literally head on admitted that he never saw the 6 powers before, which is a clear confirmation that Haki =/= Rokushiki, he can even use CoA and CoO himself, let alone seeing it from others.
[automerge]1625833456[/automerge]
Yes. They did suggest that Cp9 had Haki pre Ts and as for Lucci that he improved his Haki/Rokushiki combination over the Ts. Nothing that implies that Rokushiki and Haki should be the same or even similar... "Lucci improved his Rokushiki based Haki" is like saying "Zoro improved his swordsmanship based Haki" - everyone with a little knowledge of the english language knows that it doesent even the slightest refer to Haki and Rokushiki being the same nor similar.
It's clear that this is hinting that some rokoushiki techniques rely on the foundation of haki. It's the exact same way sabos dragon martial arts style rely on the usage of Armament haki and advanced ryou.
And for those still writing nonsense haki does not translate to just Will. Infact the direct translation of haki is "The term itself, however, literally translates to "supreme Qi".
Definition of the word Qi: In traditional Chinese culture, qi or ch'i or ki is believed to be a vital force forming part of any living entity. Qi translates literally as "air" and figuratively as "material energy", "life force", or "energy flow". Qi is the central underlying principle in Chinese traditional medicine and in Chinese martial arts.
Based on definition the rokoushi follows this principle.
Tempest kick is the sharpening of one's leg via haki to produce slashes
Iron body is a template to armament haki
Shigan is focusing tekkai into a singular point to enhance impact. It can also be used as along range projectile (which implies ryou is being used to project the attack)
Geppo is hopping on air. How is it done? Heavy and light people are seen doing it so it's not a matter of size. It's also not a matter of leg strength since people with more leg strength are seen not being able to use this technique. It's obvious that geppo is the utilization of ryou to solidify of to make a platform mid air that you can actually jump on.
Rokogun seems to also be akin to adavcned ryou since luffys entire body including his insides are rubber based. Yet it was still able to cause internal damage to luffy
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That is correct. Rubber is naturally properly resistant to shockwaves, as per nature. I wonder if Oda considered this.
Shigan also wields variations which constitute projections and that is most likely to ascribe to a Ryou usage rather than something else.
I think these are the strongest elements in favor of Haki and Rokushiki not being totally separate in the worst case scenario.
Shigan also wields variations which constitute projections and that is most likely to ascribe to a Ryou usage rather than something else.
I think these are the strongest elements in favor of Haki and Rokushiki not being totally separate in the worst case scenario.
He had it but due to Oda being limited in the power system by his time (not fully (not even close) introducing Haki properly into the story and not being aware of the importance it will hold into the future and the whole system of it in the first place) Lucci wasnt able to show it. Thus Lucci was technically way stronger back then than what we saw from him.
A 8M Bounty bandit managed to flee from Shanks and his entire crew full of CoO users with a mere smoke bomb. A fish was able to cut off his arm despite Shanks could've easily used CoA to coat it. Hell lets not even go that far, the likes of Tashigi, no name Marine soldiers and no name Gladiator fodder were able to use Haki but characters like Crocodile and some of the strongest wg agents werent?! We just gotta accept the inconsitency of the time based power system, and espeically the inconsitencies with the introduction of Haki.
A 8M Bounty bandit managed to flee from Shanks and his entire crew full of CoO users with a mere smoke bomb. A fish was able to cut off his arm despite Shanks could've easily used CoA to coat it. Hell lets not even go that far, the likes of Tashigi, no name Marine soldiers and no name Gladiator fodder were able to use Haki but characters like Crocodile and some of the strongest wg agents werent?! We just gotta accept the inconsitency of the time based power system, and espeically the inconsitencies with the introduction of Haki.