Future Events Samurai and Dragons
- Thread starter nik87
- Start date
It’s exactly why I did my research that I can tell you the headcanons you took from the idealized consumption media is incorrect, and, as it follows, your theories can only be wrong.
Do YOU remember where Zoro grew up? Because from the flashbacks we see, he was just randomly challenging people until he was defeated by Kuina, then he stuck around. Growing up with people from Wano/japanese expies does not make him a samurai, hell, a random Wano citizen with a sword does not make him a samurai either.
Combat style? Dream? Those have nothing to do with samurais, oh he wants to be the strongest swordsmen ever, lmao ok, what that has anything to do with a samurai? And “mr Bushido”, you say? That’s a line said by Vivi, who Oda went through painstakingly detail to show she was naive and inexperienced to the ways of the world, back when he cared about giving Luffy a character.
Tell me this, if you disregard everything I said, what sort of rationalization do you have in store for chapter 1052, which had Oda say through a Wano citizen that Joyboy’s heroism, rivalled Ryuma, when Luffy does not even know how to use a sword? Why have Kaidou badmouth the samurais moments before Luffy was going to beat him? It’s evident that Oda took the literary definition of a samurai through Luffy and Momo’s relationship, rather than the vapid definition you proposed.
This is nice and all, but let’s dissect it.
Do we see the samurai culture through Zoro? Why do you say that? Take a look at Kin’emon, when he was introduced in Punk Hazard, what do those two have in common, outside of using katanas, which Nik thinks it’s enough. There has always been a huge disconnect from the SHs, to the Wano people’s antics.
Again, I find Zoro’s following Wano’s culture claim, extremely dubious, how do you spin his actions as a samurai in chapter 909, when he was nothing more than a loose ronin there? Scratch that, even the introductory box says ronin, not samurai.
Bushido/=/ samurais, though many samurais adopted some parts (the concept was ever-evolving, and even saw a resurgence as a moral code in a time where samurai were long lost to the history books).
Zoro following the Bushido moral code to me, is also, eh, dubious, like what, just the death before dishonour part? So every stock shonen hero follows the bushido code, just because their plot armoured ass allows them to adopt certain parts of the philosophy? No.
Now, regarding the Yubashiri thing, that’s good and all, but it means nothing, that’s following a Wano’s cultural thing, you make it sound like every japanese/wanonese citizens were samurai, no, it was a specific class with a specific job, those native doing that does not make them samurais, at least, not that part. Conversely, there could also be cases of samurais not native to Wano/Japan.
It’s actually “King of the Samurais”, which is ironic, as claiming lordship is counterproductive, so I just saw it as Zono declaring he will master Enma. And I’m sure he will, Oda loves his self-insert Oden too much to abandon that sword.
Yeah, Zoro scarred Kaidou, honestly I don’t care at this point, because all members of the alliance save for Jinbei and Franky, maaaybe Killer if you wanna stretch it, got undeserving wins, so I cannot fault Zoro on this, but what did happen later? It had Kaidou say that Zoro did enough, he had his stupid role and now should basically get the fuck out like a good boy, because Oda does not want to “humiliate” Luffy in having him beat Kaidou in a team effort, oh no, even if heaven and earth were to crumble, and his entire character and df get retconned, Luffy will beat the strongest pirate currently alive. Here, Zoro, you can play with King, don’t worry, he’ll be humiliated by an Admiral only after Kaidou is toppled, not before.
Zoro caring for Luffy is a plot point that could have some validity in say, W7 or TB, post ts, Momo has completely stole Zoro and Luffy’s spot, Momo has become the ruler, and Luffy the samurai that needs to give him support, be it moral or strength-wise, and Zoro has been reduced to another goon, who’s interaction only serves to remove another (enemy) goon. And honestly, even if he were to return to a role similar to pre-ts, he still wouldn’t be a samurai, Luffy is stronger than Zoro, as crude as that may be to digest, and during the course of the pre-ts, SHs always said that Luffy was risking his lifespan to protect them, that’s a very disgraceful thing to happen to Zoro, if he were a samurai, worst than any other losses. Not to mention, Luffy as a ruler, yeah no, not to mention Zoro knows shit about Roger to direct him if the situation requires it, and he shouldn’t, that’s not his objective. Hell, we don’t know much about the PK title itself, so nope, Zoro helping Luffy wouldn’t make him a samurai.
Problem is, Nik says that Akainu, someone that actually acts as a samurai(ain’t even talking about Power Level, it means nothing in the conversation), is a textbook psychopath, he’s not entirely wrong, but everybody with moderate screentime in OP would be either shot or incarcerated by modern day’s judgement, then goes along and create this fucking thread, because he thinks a samurai is a retard with a katana, haori and kabuto helmet
Like folks, Leviathan/Satan and the Judeo-Christian God, Zeus and Typhon, Thor and that stupid norse dragon, Susanoo and Orochi, Indra and Vritra, it was obvious what Oda was going for, the instant you saw Oda not giving a fuck about Zoro’s words regarding Sanji and BM, something was going on with Zoro’s character, another mindless bitch falling in line for chosen one Luffy.
Do YOU remember where Zoro grew up? Because from the flashbacks we see, he was just randomly challenging people until he was defeated by Kuina, then he stuck around. Growing up with people from Wano/japanese expies does not make him a samurai, hell, a random Wano citizen with a sword does not make him a samurai either.
Combat style? Dream? Those have nothing to do with samurais, oh he wants to be the strongest swordsmen ever, lmao ok, what that has anything to do with a samurai? And “mr Bushido”, you say? That’s a line said by Vivi, who Oda went through painstakingly detail to show she was naive and inexperienced to the ways of the world, back when he cared about giving Luffy a character.
Tell me this, if you disregard everything I said, what sort of rationalization do you have in store for chapter 1052, which had Oda say through a Wano citizen that Joyboy’s heroism, rivalled Ryuma, when Luffy does not even know how to use a sword? Why have Kaidou badmouth the samurais moments before Luffy was going to beat him? It’s evident that Oda took the literary definition of a samurai through Luffy and Momo’s relationship, rather than the vapid definition you proposed.
This is nice and all, but let’s dissect it.
Do we see the samurai culture through Zoro? Why do you say that? Take a look at Kin’emon, when he was introduced in Punk Hazard, what do those two have in common, outside of using katanas, which Nik thinks it’s enough. There has always been a huge disconnect from the SHs, to the Wano people’s antics.
Again, I find Zoro’s following Wano’s culture claim, extremely dubious, how do you spin his actions as a samurai in chapter 909, when he was nothing more than a loose ronin there? Scratch that, even the introductory box says ronin, not samurai.
Bushido/=/ samurais, though many samurais adopted some parts (the concept was ever-evolving, and even saw a resurgence as a moral code in a time where samurai were long lost to the history books).
Zoro following the Bushido moral code to me, is also, eh, dubious, like what, just the death before dishonour part? So every stock shonen hero follows the bushido code, just because their plot armoured ass allows them to adopt certain parts of the philosophy? No.
Now, regarding the Yubashiri thing, that’s good and all, but it means nothing, that’s following a Wano’s cultural thing, you make it sound like every japanese/wanonese citizens were samurai, no, it was a specific class with a specific job, those native doing that does not make them samurais, at least, not that part. Conversely, there could also be cases of samurais not native to Wano/Japan.
It’s actually “King of the Samurais”, which is ironic, as claiming lordship is counterproductive, so I just saw it as Zono declaring he will master Enma. And I’m sure he will, Oda loves his self-insert Oden too much to abandon that sword.
Yeah, Zoro scarred Kaidou, honestly I don’t care at this point, because all members of the alliance save for Jinbei and Franky, maaaybe Killer if you wanna stretch it, got undeserving wins, so I cannot fault Zoro on this, but what did happen later? It had Kaidou say that Zoro did enough, he had his stupid role and now should basically get the fuck out like a good boy, because Oda does not want to “humiliate” Luffy in having him beat Kaidou in a team effort, oh no, even if heaven and earth were to crumble, and his entire character and df get retconned, Luffy will beat the strongest pirate currently alive. Here, Zoro, you can play with King, don’t worry, he’ll be humiliated by an Admiral only after Kaidou is toppled, not before.
Zoro caring for Luffy is a plot point that could have some validity in say, W7 or TB, post ts, Momo has completely stole Zoro and Luffy’s spot, Momo has become the ruler, and Luffy the samurai that needs to give him support, be it moral or strength-wise, and Zoro has been reduced to another goon, who’s interaction only serves to remove another (enemy) goon. And honestly, even if he were to return to a role similar to pre-ts, he still wouldn’t be a samurai, Luffy is stronger than Zoro, as crude as that may be to digest, and during the course of the pre-ts, SHs always said that Luffy was risking his lifespan to protect them, that’s a very disgraceful thing to happen to Zoro, if he were a samurai, worst than any other losses. Not to mention, Luffy as a ruler, yeah no, not to mention Zoro knows shit about Roger to direct him if the situation requires it, and he shouldn’t, that’s not his objective. Hell, we don’t know much about the PK title itself, so nope, Zoro helping Luffy wouldn’t make him a samurai.
Problem is, Nik says that Akainu, someone that actually acts as a samurai(ain’t even talking about Power Level, it means nothing in the conversation), is a textbook psychopath, he’s not entirely wrong, but everybody with moderate screentime in OP would be either shot or incarcerated by modern day’s judgement, then goes along and create this fucking thread, because he thinks a samurai is a retard with a katana, haori and kabuto helmet
Like folks, Leviathan/Satan and the Judeo-Christian God, Zeus and Typhon, Thor and that stupid norse dragon, Susanoo and Orochi, Indra and Vritra, it was obvious what Oda was going for, the instant you saw Oda not giving a fuck about Zoro’s words regarding Sanji and BM, something was going on with Zoro’s character, another mindless bitch falling in line for chosen one Luffy.
It’s exactly why I did my research that I can tell you the headcanons you took from the idealized consumption media is incorrect, and, as it follows, your theories can only be wrong.
Do YOU remember where Zoro grew up? Because from the flashbacks we see, he was just randomly challenging people until he was defeated by Kuina, then he stuck around. Growing up with people from Wano/japanese expies does not make him a samurai, hell, a random Wano citizen with a sword does not make him a samurai either.
Combat style? Dream? Those have nothing to do with samurais, oh he wants to be the strongest swordsmen ever, lmao ok, what that has anything to do with a samurai? And “mr Bushido”, you say? That’s a line said by Vivi, who Oda went through painstakingly detail to show she was naive and inexperienced to the ways of the world, back when he cared about giving Luffy a character.
Tell me this, if you disregard everything I said, what sort of rationalization do you have in store for chapter 1052, which had Oda say through a Wano citizen that Joyboy’s heroism, rivalled Ryuma, when Luffy does not even know how to use a sword? Why have Kaidou badmouth the samurais moments before Luffy was going to beat him? It’s evident that Oda took the literary definition of a samurai through Luffy and Momo’s relationship, rather than the vapid definition you proposed.
This is nice and all, but let’s dissect it.
Do we see the samurai culture through Zoro? Why do you say that? Take a look at Kin’emon, when he was introduced in Punk Hazard, what do those two have in common, outside of using katanas, which Nik thinks it’s enough. There has always been a huge disconnect from the SHs, to the Wano people’s antics.
Again, I find Zoro’s following Wano’s culture claim, extremely dubious, how do you spin his actions as a samurai in chapter 909, when he was nothing more than a loose ronin there? Scratch that, even the introductory box says ronin, not samurai.
Bushido/=/ samurais, though many samurais adopted some parts (the concept was ever-evolving, and even saw a resurgence as a moral code in a time where samurai were long lost to the history books).
Zoro following the Bushido moral code to me, is also, eh, dubious, like what, just the death before dishonour part? So every stock shonen hero follows the bushido code, just because their plot armoured ass allows them to adopt certain parts of the philosophy? No.
Now, regarding the Yubashiri thing, that’s good and all, but it means nothing, that’s following a Wano’s cultural thing, you make it sound like every japanese/wanonese citizens were samurai, no, it was a specific class with a specific job, those native doing that does not make them samurais, at least, not that part. Conversely, there could also be cases of samurais not native to Wano/Japan.
It’s actually “King of the Samurais”, which is ironic, as claiming lordship is counterproductive, so I just saw it as Zono declaring he will master Enma. And I’m sure he will, Oda loves his self-insert Oden too much to abandon that sword.
Yeah, Zoro scarred Kaidou, honestly I don’t care at this point, because all members of the alliance save for Jinbei and Franky, maaaybe Killer if you wanna stretch it, got undeserving wins, so I cannot fault Zoro on this, but what did happen later? It had Kaidou say that Zoro did enough, he had his stupid role and now should basically get the fuck out like a good boy, because Oda does not want to “humiliate” Luffy in having him beat Kaidou in a team effort, oh no, even if heaven and earth were to crumble, and his entire character and df get retconned, Luffy will beat the strongest pirate currently alive. Here, Zoro, you can play with King, don’t worry, he’ll be humiliated by an Admiral only after Kaidou is toppled, not before.
Zoro caring for Luffy is a plot point that could have some validity in say, W7 or TB, post ts, Momo has completely stole Zoro and Luffy’s spot, Momo has become the ruler, and Luffy the samurai that needs to give him support, be it moral or strength-wise, and Zoro has been reduced to another goon, who’s interaction only serves to remove another (enemy) goon. And honestly, even if he were to return to a role similar to pre-ts, he still wouldn’t be a samurai, Luffy is stronger than Zoro, as crude as that may be to digest, and during the course of the pre-ts, SHs always said that Luffy was risking his lifespan to protect them, that’s a very disgraceful thing to happen to Zoro, if he were a samurai, worst than any other losses. Not to mention, Luffy as a ruler, yeah no, not to mention Zoro knows shit about Roger to direct him if the situation requires it, and he shouldn’t, that’s not his objective. Hell, we don’t know much about the PK title itself, so nope, Zoro helping Luffy wouldn’t make him a samurai.
Problem is, Nik says that Akainu, someone that actually acts as a samurai(ain’t even talking about Power Level, it means nothing in the conversation), is a textbook psychopath, he’s not entirely wrong, but everybody with moderate screentime in OP would be either shot or incarcerated by modern day’s judgement, then goes along and create this fucking thread, because he thinks a samurai is a retard with a katana, haori and kabuto helmet
Like folks, Leviathan/Satan and the Judeo-Christian God, Zeus and Typhon, Thor and that stupid norse dragon, Susanoo and Orochi, Indra and Vritra, it was obvious what Oda was going for, the instant you saw Oda not giving a fuck about Zoro’s words regarding Sanji and BM, something was going on with Zoro’s character, another mindless bitch falling in line for chosen one Luffy.
Do YOU remember where Zoro grew up? Because from the flashbacks we see, he was just randomly challenging people until he was defeated by Kuina, then he stuck around. Growing up with people from Wano/japanese expies does not make him a samurai, hell, a random Wano citizen with a sword does not make him a samurai either.
Combat style? Dream? Those have nothing to do with samurais, oh he wants to be the strongest swordsmen ever, lmao ok, what that has anything to do with a samurai? And “mr Bushido”, you say? That’s a line said by Vivi, who Oda went through painstakingly detail to show she was naive and inexperienced to the ways of the world, back when he cared about giving Luffy a character.
Tell me this, if you disregard everything I said, what sort of rationalization do you have in store for chapter 1052, which had Oda say through a Wano citizen that Joyboy’s heroism, rivalled Ryuma, when Luffy does not even know how to use a sword? Why have Kaidou badmouth the samurais moments before Luffy was going to beat him? It’s evident that Oda took the literary definition of a samurai through Luffy and Momo’s relationship, rather than the vapid definition you proposed.
This is nice and all, but let’s dissect it.
Do we see the samurai culture through Zoro? Why do you say that? Take a look at Kin’emon, when he was introduced in Punk Hazard, what do those two have in common, outside of using katanas, which Nik thinks it’s enough. There has always been a huge disconnect from the SHs, to the Wano people’s antics.
Again, I find Zoro’s following Wano’s culture claim, extremely dubious, how do you spin his actions as a samurai in chapter 909, when he was nothing more than a loose ronin there? Scratch that, even the introductory box says ronin, not samurai.
Bushido/=/ samurais, though many samurais adopted some parts (the concept was ever-evolving, and even saw a resurgence as a moral code in a time where samurai were long lost to the history books).
Zoro following the Bushido moral code to me, is also, eh, dubious, like what, just the death before dishonour part? So every stock shonen hero follows the bushido code, just because their plot armoured ass allows them to adopt certain parts of the philosophy? No.
Now, regarding the Yubashiri thing, that’s good and all, but it means nothing, that’s following a Wano’s cultural thing, you make it sound like every japanese/wanonese citizens were samurai, no, it was a specific class with a specific job, those native doing that does not make them samurais, at least, not that part. Conversely, there could also be cases of samurais not native to Wano/Japan.
It’s actually “King of the Samurais”, which is ironic, as claiming lordship is counterproductive, so I just saw it as Zono declaring he will master Enma. And I’m sure he will, Oda loves his self-insert Oden too much to abandon that sword.
Yeah, Zoro scarred Kaidou, honestly I don’t care at this point, because all members of the alliance save for Jinbei and Franky, maaaybe Killer if you wanna stretch it, got undeserving wins, so I cannot fault Zoro on this, but what did happen later? It had Kaidou say that Zoro did enough, he had his stupid role and now should basically get the fuck out like a good boy, because Oda does not want to “humiliate” Luffy in having him beat Kaidou in a team effort, oh no, even if heaven and earth were to crumble, and his entire character and df get retconned, Luffy will beat the strongest pirate currently alive. Here, Zoro, you can play with King, don’t worry, he’ll be humiliated by an Admiral only after Kaidou is toppled, not before.
Zoro caring for Luffy is a plot point that could have some validity in say, W7 or TB, post ts, Momo has completely stole Zoro and Luffy’s spot, Momo has become the ruler, and Luffy the samurai that needs to give him support, be it moral or strength-wise, and Zoro has been reduced to another goon, who’s interaction only serves to remove another (enemy) goon. And honestly, even if he were to return to a role similar to pre-ts, he still wouldn’t be a samurai, Luffy is stronger than Zoro, as crude as that may be to digest, and during the course of the pre-ts, SHs always said that Luffy was risking his lifespan to protect them, that’s a very disgraceful thing to happen to Zoro, if he were a samurai, worst than any other losses. Not to mention, Luffy as a ruler, yeah no, not to mention Zoro knows shit about Roger to direct him if the situation requires it, and he shouldn’t, that’s not his objective. Hell, we don’t know much about the PK title itself, so nope, Zoro helping Luffy wouldn’t make him a samurai.
Problem is, Nik says that Akainu, someone that actually acts as a samurai(ain’t even talking about Power Level, it means nothing in the conversation), is a textbook psychopath, he’s not entirely wrong, but everybody with moderate screentime in OP would be either shot or incarcerated by modern day’s judgement, then goes along and create this fucking thread, because he thinks a samurai is a retard with a katana, haori and kabuto helmet
Like folks, Leviathan/Satan and the Judeo-Christian God, Zeus and Typhon, Thor and that stupid norse dragon, Susanoo and Orochi, Indra and Vritra, it was obvious what Oda was going for, the instant you saw Oda not giving a fuck about Zoro’s words regarding Sanji and BM, something was going on with Zoro’s character, another mindless bitch falling in line for chosen one Luffy.
This is exactly it. But you went on a rant somehow regarding what happened to Zoro or (What Oda chose to do for Zoro).
Zoro follows the moral code of Bushido but he isn't like how Wano people act. He never even said hes a Samurai but he is influenced by his upbringing which is why he knows and shows some of the so called (Samurai traits). You have not said anything wrong here but can't deny the connections he has to Wano.
Zoro falling in line for chosen one Luffy. You have explained that yourself too.
Maybe we shouldn't have looked into it the way we did. Maybe Oda never planned for Zoro to actually come to Wano to be a Samurai in the 1st place "Even with all of the tiny details we seen throughout the story". Maybe Oda just wanted to hint at Zoro's origin's and the possible connection between him and Ryuma as the "Future God of the Blade". Even the grim reaper scene or Zoro as a whole "fighting style, Asura etc" was left unexplained. Maybe we are not meant to know now? Or Oda chose not to go deeper for Zoro and keep him as Mysterious as he was.
"So every stock shonen hero follows the bushido code" I mean the authors are Japanese right?
Take Luffy for example here. He is not a Samurai nor he follows their moral code.
Who knows why how when. If you ask me i would say Wano was the best opportunity to finally explain Zoro and tackle his background power beliefs.
But i don't know. This arc made me more conflicted and confused about Zoro's role in the story.
Oh boy... I guess Zoro can not be a samurai just because you dont want him to. And Luffy can be one instead... 
There are no flashbacks, anime things arent canon and the first time we see Zoro, he is in a Samurai village with already 2000 defeats behind him by another samurai, Kuina. He didnt "stick around". Hell, by the definition of a word, Zoro couldnt be a samurai until he found someone to serve, which we can say he found in Luffy. Growing up with Samurai taught him the ways of samurai, he follows their moral code.
Yes, Zoro's combat style is an extension of Wano's Nittoryu that samurai like Oden practiced. He literally carries a dream of a fallen comrade Kuina in his teeth, making her the greatest along the way too, in a way.
Vivi's line doesnt matter, Ronin intro doesnt matter, Kappa and Hyogoro words dont matter, Hiyori's words dont matter, Kappa's words dont matter and so on. Nothing matters if you try hard enough.
What does 1052 have to do with Zoro being a samurai? Wano was saved by Joyboy. That's an act of heroism, defeating a dragon. Only another act of heroism that defeated a dragon in Wano's history was that of Ryuma. What is confusing you about 1052?
Because Kaido is right, samurai are only a shell of Ryuma's glory and Luffy beating him didnt prove Kaido wrong. A samurai didnt triumph over the dragon.
And what is a ronin? Samurai without a master.
There are no flashbacks, anime things arent canon and the first time we see Zoro, he is in a Samurai village with already 2000 defeats behind him by another samurai, Kuina. He didnt "stick around". Hell, by the definition of a word, Zoro couldnt be a samurai until he found someone to serve, which we can say he found in Luffy. Growing up with Samurai taught him the ways of samurai, he follows their moral code.
Yes, Zoro's combat style is an extension of Wano's Nittoryu that samurai like Oden practiced. He literally carries a dream of a fallen comrade Kuina in his teeth, making her the greatest along the way too, in a way.
Vivi's line doesnt matter, Ronin intro doesnt matter, Kappa and Hyogoro words dont matter, Hiyori's words dont matter, Kappa's words dont matter and so on. Nothing matters if you try hard enough.
What does 1052 have to do with Zoro being a samurai? Wano was saved by Joyboy. That's an act of heroism, defeating a dragon. Only another act of heroism that defeated a dragon in Wano's history was that of Ryuma. What is confusing you about 1052?
Because Kaido is right, samurai are only a shell of Ryuma's glory and Luffy beating him didnt prove Kaido wrong. A samurai didnt triumph over the dragon.
And what is a ronin? Samurai without a master.
Oh boy... I guess Zoro can not be a samurai just because you dont want him to. And Luffy can be one instead...
There are no flashbacks, anime things arent canon and the first time we see Zoro, he is in a Samurai village with already 2000 defeats behind him by another samurai, Kuina. He didnt "stick around". Hell, by the definition of a word, Zoro couldnt be a samurai until he found someone to serve, which we can say he found in Luffy. Growing up with Samurai taught him the ways of samurai, he follows their moral code.
Yes, Zoro's combat style is an extension of Wano's Nittoryu that samurai like Oden practiced. He literally carries a dream of a fallen comrade Kuina in his teeth, making her the greatest along the way too, in a way.
Vivi's line doesnt matter, Ronin intro doesnt matter, Kappa and Hyogoro words dont matter, Hiyori's words dont matter, Kappa's words dont matter and so on. Nothing matters if you try hard enough.
What does 1052 have to do with Zoro being a samurai? Wano was saved by Joyboy. That's an act of heroism, defeating a dragon. Only another act of heroism that defeated a dragon in Wano's history was that of Ryuma. What is confusing you about 1052?
Because Kaido is right, samurai are only a shell of Ryuma's glory and Luffy beating him didnt prove Kaido wrong. A samurai didnt triumph over the dragon.
And what is a ronin? Samurai without a master.
There are no flashbacks, anime things arent canon and the first time we see Zoro, he is in a Samurai village with already 2000 defeats behind him by another samurai, Kuina. He didnt "stick around". Hell, by the definition of a word, Zoro couldnt be a samurai until he found someone to serve, which we can say he found in Luffy. Growing up with Samurai taught him the ways of samurai, he follows their moral code.
Yes, Zoro's combat style is an extension of Wano's Nittoryu that samurai like Oden practiced. He literally carries a dream of a fallen comrade Kuina in his teeth, making her the greatest along the way too, in a way.
Vivi's line doesnt matter, Ronin intro doesnt matter, Kappa and Hyogoro words dont matter, Hiyori's words dont matter, Kappa's words dont matter and so on. Nothing matters if you try hard enough.
What does 1052 have to do with Zoro being a samurai? Wano was saved by Joyboy. That's an act of heroism, defeating a dragon. Only another act of heroism that defeated a dragon in Wano's history was that of Ryuma. What is confusing you about 1052?
Because Kaido is right, samurai are only a shell of Ryuma's glory and Luffy beating him didnt prove Kaido wrong. A samurai didnt triumph over the dragon.
And what is a ronin? Samurai without a master.
