General & Others "Shanks vs Mihawk" and "Itachi vs Minato" social experiment

[park_min young]

Even if itachi or minato wins , it will be an extreme diff and in general pain is far stronger let it be DC or number of jutsus.

Pain kind of hard counters Itachi as well, I remember that Rinnegan is highly resistant to eye genjutsus if not outright immune to it. Pain can outright overpower Itachi, Itachi needed KCM Naruto and Bee to stop a Chibaku Tensei. Minato also gets overpowered imo, I’ll take the guy who solo’d Konoha and pretty much able to capture the nine-tails (while heavily nerfed and close to deathbed) over Minato. A theoretical healthy Nagato who’s free of the Ozempics is kind of busted.

 

[soupongo]

Itachi had no incentive to fight jiraiya. He can neg jiraiya if they fight. Jiraiya's equal in orochimaru was dominated by base itachi.

This isn´t true though. He was the one who advocated for Kisame to not back out of the mission because of Jiraiya, and used a random women to trick Jiraiya out of battling him, and directly going for Naruto. There´s really no 4d chess move from him here.

 

[[No Name]]

Pain was stronger than Itachi and Minato lmfao, that’s pretty clear to me. Obito is tricky but Pain had stronger everything tbh, Rinnegan is the ultimate eye ability. Kamui is just really broken but it’s not full-proof, especially not the one-eyed version. There’s a small window where Tobi has to deactivate his intangibility after 5 minutes iirc. If Nagato catches on then he can hit Obito after exploiting that weakness. Obito also had to touch his opponent for Kamui to be used offensively iirc.

Yeah no

Naruto needs kcm for obito, that was Minato plan. While he doesn't give a fuck about Lain.

Same Obito who is hyped as someone even Minato couldn't beat, Minato while Pain is out there is hyping Obito as the one Naruto needs kurama to beat him.

Obito admitted he would be dead if he didn't hide some secrets to itachi

If u got critical thinking and don't take "strongest" hype statement for Pain literally, as some kind of absolute truth (which isn't), and understand the narrative implication of Naruto having to master kyuubi power in order to beat Obito, not Pain, then u will understand the clear direction the manga has with Obito > Pain, Obito < Itachi.

 

[MonsterKaido]

This isn´t true though. He was the one who advocated for Kisame to not back out of the mission because of Jiraiya, and used a random women to trick Jiraiya out of battling him, and directly going for Naruto. There´s really no 4d chess move from him here.

He was not there to fight but to remind danzo that he is alive. That was his main purpose. He had no true intentions of capturing naruto.

 

[park_min young]

Yeah no

Naruto needs kcm for obito, that was Minato plan. While he doesn't give a fuck about Lain.

Same Obito who is hyped as someone even Minato couldn't beat, Minato while Pain is out there is hyping Obito as the one Naruto needs kurama to beat him.

Obito admitted he would be dead if he didn't hide some secrets to itachi

If u got critical thinking and don't take "strongest" hype statement for Pain literally, as some kind of absolute truth (which isn't), and understand the narrative implication of Naruto having to master kyuubi power in order to beat Obito, not Pain, then u will understand the clear direction the manga has with Obito > Pain, Obito < Itachi.

Didn’t Minato low-diff Tobi who had all the advantages in the world? Lmfao. Minato had to analyze Kamui’s rules immediately whilst he was concerned with Kurama’s rampage.

Minato also thought that Tobi was Madara or at least came to the conclusion that he carried his idealogy. And he was right, Madara trained Tobi. Minato was weary of Obito’s potential threat in the future, that is all. Means nothing when discussing the matchup between a prime Pain and Orange Mask Tobi. Tobi is a one trick pony whom even Konan (pretty much one of if not the weakest Akatsuki) almost killed. His technique has an exploitable weakness.

 

[gz89]

B-but how does he actually fight

 

[soupongo]

He was not there to fight but to remind danzo that he is alive. That was his main purpose. He had no true intentions of capturing naruto.

So was Danzo not reminded of his existence by the fact that he was already seen in Konoha and had already fought Kakashi?

 

[MonsterKaido]

So was Danzo not reminded of his existence by the fact that he was already seen in Konoha and had already fought Kakashi?

Yes he was. As I said capturing naruto was never the intention. Kisame even says much that the had advantage and why they are running from jiraiya.

 

[GalaxyLevelShanks]

Minato folded Obito in like 2 moves tho.

True he did but it’s important to remember that it was because both of them were using extremely potent Jutsus at the same time. Minato himself said it could be over in an instant.

I agree with your logic for Minato > Itachi for the most part, as expected from a great poster like you. I’d like to only push back on the SM thing. Sure he has it but he takes way too long to activate it leaving him vulnerable against Itachi which is a death sentence since Itachi has so many one shot techniques in his arsenal and regardless he won’t maintain it for a long time. Minato himself agrees SM isn’t his strong suit. Which is why he’s never had his best feats with it.

(It was an asspull from Kishi to give him the mode tbf. Felt so forced)

 

[MonsterKaido]

Kisame was surprised they were retreating.

 

[GalaxyLevelShanks]

Itachi ran away from Jiraya alongside Kisame.

Minato was likely stronger than Jiraya lol.

How do you manage to be retarded in both OP and Nardo powerscaling? This is truly a feat

 

[soupongo]

Yes he was. As I said capturing naruto was never the intention. Kisame even says much that the had advantage and why they are running from jiraiya.

Then Itachi could have pretty easily retreated when Kisame said they should have retreated earlier, then trying to use underhanded tactics against Jiraiya to proceed chasing Nardo.

 

[GalaxyLevelShanks]

Minato stans are honestly making better arguments than most in this thread which is good to see.

It’s just crazy how people think he low diffed Obito though when he self admitted it coulda gone either way. OM Obito > Hokage Minato isn’t up for debate.

And then there’s one specific guy bringing up the outdated 2005 Jiraiya argument lmfao

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 6:51 PM

@ZenZu @TheAncientCenturion I need your opinions on this thread

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 6:55 PM

Pain kind of hard counters Itachi as well, I remember that Rinnegan is highly resistant to eye genjutsus if not outright immune to it. Pain can outright overpower Itachi, Itachi needed KCM Naruto and Bee to stop a Chibaku Tensei. Minato also gets overpowered imo, I’ll take the guy who solo’d Konoha and pretty much able to capture the nine-tails (while heavily nerfed and close to deathbed) over Minato. A theoretical healthy Nagato who’s free of the Ozempics is kind of busted.

CT is indeed a hard counter but I think a Susano’o might manage to break out of it. It’ll take a while. Enough to kill Sick Itachi but Edo and Healthy Itachi should still have enough left in the tank to punish Pain. Definitely a valid wincon for Pain though.


Rinnegan isn’t necessarily resistant to Genjutsu, especially not MS+ levels of Genjutsu. It’s not stated anywhere. It’s only stated Sasuke’s Rinnegan is enough but that’s amped by SO6P chakra.

Pain vs Itachi is a close fight and I could see compelling arguments for either side. It’s only a problem when people pretend Pain won’t be pushed to a hard fight though

 

[kekaro]

Kisame was surprised they were retreating.

This man has terminal illness and still puffing and huffing less than the asthmatic one after pulling 2-Srank jutsu is crazy shit

 

[GalaxyLevelShanks]

Anyone who thinks the Sannin are anywhere near Itachi/Minato tier are getting sent straight to the ignore list btw lol

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 7:04 PM

@park_min young also one last point I want to add to your message is that I absolutely agree a prime healthy Nagato would be tiers ahead of anyone mentioned in this thread. Would probably be right behind the Founders as the strongest non god tiers in the verse. Could possibly be superior to the Founders if he had stronger base stats as well but I doubt that.

 

[Rumble]

Minato broke down the mechanics of Kamui within literal minutes of encountering it through sheer observation. Not doubt that's directly tied to his ability to learn high level shit like space-time ninjutsu, Uzumaki sealing techniques, Sage Mode, and who the fuck knows what else. The fact he hadn't used Sage Mode in battle before only meant no one was strong enough force him to use it, imo.

Not only is he physically gifted, he's got the intellect, judgment and level-headedness to adapt to virtually any situation on the drop of a dime.

When I consider Itachi's feats and usual strengths and advantages, it just becomes clearer how most of those factors actually favour Minato.

It’s just crazy how people think he low diffed Obito though when he self admitted it coulda gone either way.

Minato's dialogue reflects his humble character. He doesn't have the same context of his feats as the reader, who can draw their own conclusions.

Most come to the conclusion it's a no-brainer Minato was really fucking like that. Like, read ch 502 again. Minato saw Kamui twice and then got him. We hadn't seen that shit before in the manga.

Or pages before it, when he teleported away a fully powered Bijuudama. Who the fuck is going hit this dude with anything meaningful?

I have no doubt could hit return to sender on Amaterasu.

 

[MonsterKaido]

Then Itachi could have pretty easily retreated when Kisame said they should have retreated earlier, then trying to use underhanded tactics against Jiraiya to proceed chasing Nardo.

Kisame was surprised they were retreating.

 

[ZenZu]

Itachi would beat Minato every time, no counters to high lvl genjutsu. Minato would be fighting an illusion and end up in tsukiyomi or some shit.

On the other hand, Itachi's speed and reflexes are among the best in the verse, he made Killer Bee and KCM Naruto look slow, which is ridiculous to say the least, Killer Bee made MS Sasuke look like a turtle.

 

[Rumble]

Pain was stronger than Itachi and Minato lmfao, that’s pretty clear to me.

Stronger than Itachi.

Not stronger than Minato, who is a hard counter.

 

[MonsterKaido]

Stronger than Itachi.

Not stronger than Minato, who is a hard counter.

ST hard counters FTG though.