I did, how does stronger than any swordsman in 50 years(even tho Oden died like 20-30(?)years ago) put you Equal to Oden? Like you do understand that at tha moment of Odens death, he was above any high tier. Hell he was arguably a Top Tier, you not really finna sit hea and try to tell us that Zoro after picking up Enma for a day is a Top Tier huh.....
Powers & Abilities So does everyone agree Enma not a power up now.
- Thread starter Sword God Ryuma
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The training is the powerup, not Enma. The thread is about whether the sword itself is the powerup, you're arguing that it is. In arguing that you have to prove it's a better sword than Shusui, which it is not due to being of the same grade as Shusui while not being a black blade.
IE,
Luffy's training at Udon = Luffy's CoA & physical strength growth is the powerup, not the necklace or seastone
IE,
Luffy's training at Udon = Luffy's CoA & physical strength growth is the powerup, not the necklace or seastone
Has anybody disagreed that Zoro recieved a haki boost or that Zoro's powerup isn't his haki? No, as that's the whole point of mastering Enma.
The thread addresses specifically, that Enma itself is not a powerup. Unless you're trying to classify a training tool as a powerup, then you would have to classify Luffy's seastone at Udon which allowed him to make some gains in physical prowess as a powerup. You would then have to classify Zoro's weights as powerups.. But you won't do that, because you're smart enough to know that training tools aren't powerups but mediums to achieve the actual powerups.
The thread again is about whether Enma itself is a powerup.. not whether Zoro received a powerup or not. Enma can only be a powerup if it is a better sword than Shusui, meaning if Zoro at the end of Enma training becomes weaker by picking up Shusui. But that won't be the case, due to Shusui being the superior sword.
The thread addresses specifically, that Enma itself is not a powerup. Unless you're trying to classify a training tool as a powerup, then you would have to classify Luffy's seastone at Udon which allowed him to make some gains in physical prowess as a powerup. You would then have to classify Zoro's weights as powerups.. But you won't do that, because you're smart enough to know that training tools aren't powerups but mediums to achieve the actual powerups.
The thread again is about whether Enma itself is a powerup.. not whether Zoro received a powerup or not. Enma can only be a powerup if it is a better sword than Shusui, meaning if Zoro at the end of Enma training becomes weaker by picking up Shusui. But that won't be the case, due to Shusui being the superior sword.
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I didn't said anything about Zoro being equal to Oden, did I?
Do I have to explain it to you of what happened?
Kurohime said that wielding Enma doesn't mean that Zoro is equal to Oden. So I answer, that even though it doesn't necessarily mean that Zoro is equal to Oden, at least it means that Zoro is stronger than any Wano citizen for the last 50 years because only Oden has ever able to tame it, no one before or since.
And why I said 50 years? Because Oden was died when he's around 39 years old or so. And he was died 20 years ago, while Oden already using Enma ever since he's a child. So do the math.
Next time try to understand it first before replying, ok bro?!
Do I have to explain it to you of what happened?
Kurohime said that wielding Enma doesn't mean that Zoro is equal to Oden. So I answer, that even though it doesn't necessarily mean that Zoro is equal to Oden, at least it means that Zoro is stronger than any Wano citizen for the last 50 years because only Oden has ever able to tame it, no one before or since.
And why I said 50 years? Because Oden was died when he's around 39 years old or so. And he was died 20 years ago, while Oden already using Enma ever since he's a child. So do the math.
Next time try to understand it first before replying, ok bro?!
Ok good to know.
Luffy's powerup up at Udon was seastone, not increase in physical prowess
Zoro's powerup that he always gets is the weights, not the increase in physical prowess
Vegeta's powerup when he was trying to turn super sayain, wasn't super sayain, it was the gravity chamber.
I understand now, training tools = powerups, not the results achieved from the training tools. See I always thought it was the results of the training that were the powerup or the specific things that were boosted, I never knew the training tools that restrain & nerf the person were the actual powerups. The more you know the better i guess.
Luffy's powerup up at Udon was seastone, not increase in physical prowess
Zoro's powerup that he always gets is the weights, not the increase in physical prowess
Vegeta's powerup when he was trying to turn super sayain, wasn't super sayain, it was the gravity chamber.
I understand now, training tools = powerups, not the results achieved from the training tools. See I always thought it was the results of the training that were the powerup or the specific things that were boosted, I never knew the training tools that restrain & nerf the person were the actual powerups. The more you know the better i guess.
Should be anything that directly increases ur power. Enma falls right in line imo.
Enma falls right next to df imo. Both are directly increasing the characters states. While needing training to fully maximize this.
I actually decrease with shusui being better, but tabling that. Enma is the direct cause of zoro haki growth. Thro no other blade or known method would he have made these gains. Which is why shusui was replaced here.
Zoro haki growth directly empowers his AP/ Lethality/ DC/ and overall defense. Making him stronger in a way only enma can.
Whats distinguishing these "training tool" from PUs?
-Without enma would zoro haki be where it is now??
- Does growth in zoro haki not direct affective his stats??
No, as zoro could achieve the same thro other means. Here enma specifically why his haki increasing the way it is. Cant be achieved with any other blade.
Enma falls right next to df imo. Both are directly increasing the characters states. While needing training to fully maximize this.
I actually decrease with shusui being better, but tabling that. Enma is the direct cause of zoro haki growth. Thro no other blade or known method would he have made these gains. Which is why shusui was replaced here.
Zoro haki growth directly empowers his AP/ Lethality/ DC/ and overall defense. Making him stronger in a way only enma can.
Whats distinguishing these "training tool" from PUs?
-Without enma would zoro haki be where it is now??
- Does growth in zoro haki not direct affective his stats??
No, as zoro could achieve the same thro other means. Here enma specifically why his haki increasing the way it is. Cant be achieved with any other blade.
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So desperate to say Zoro doesnt need to get stronger by seperating: training, the training tools, the end result... gotta discuss all three before we can establish of Zoro is getting strong from something.
Jesus, it's a power up. He says it himself... just move on.
Seriously what's the harm in it being a PU? How does that in anyway hurt his character. Is an "in unverse" character gunna say "YOU ONLY CUT KAIDO BECAUSE YOU GOT STRONGER FROM ENMA AND YOUR REALLY WEAK WITHOUT IT!! No one is gunna say that lol they are gunna say "Whoa he cut Kaido!"
People will seriously argue about the dumbest shit lol
Jesus, it's a power up. He says it himself... just move on.
Seriously what's the harm in it being a PU? How does that in anyway hurt his character. Is an "in unverse" character gunna say "YOU ONLY CUT KAIDO BECAUSE YOU GOT STRONGER FROM ENMA AND YOUR REALLY WEAK WITHOUT IT!! No one is gunna say that lol they are gunna say "Whoa he cut Kaido!"
People will seriously argue about the dumbest shit lol
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Enma doesn't increase any stat. It takes the haki that is already present in the user and exerts it more than the user wants, it doesn't make the haki stronger or give the user any ability he already isn't capable of doing.
Seastone limits at Udon were the direct cause of Kidd & Luffy gaining physical prowess at Udon.
Weights that put the limit on the body were the direct cause of Zoro gaining physical prowesses all the time.
The Pushups/curls/etc a person does at the gym is the direct cause a person gets better in w.e they were pushing for.
Rock Lee got faster by using ankle weights, does that make ankle weights the powerup or his speed?
Vegeta attained super sayain by pushing himself in the gravity chamber, does that make the gravity chamber his powerup or super sayain?
What differentiates a training tool from a tool that powers you up is the following (using examples above):
- Seastone, they drained Luffy & Kidd's energy, they had to push through it thus exceeding their limits and making gains physically. The seastone here served as a determent to Luffy & Kidd, not as a boost.
- Enma, it drains the haki more than the user wants to a point it causes physical harm to the weilder while providing no actual benefit at all (over shusui that is), Zoro now has to fight against that in order to make his haki better. Enma here is serving as a determent, not as a boost.
VS
- Sabo recieved the mera-mera, he gained a boost in attack prowess & logia intangibility. The DF gave him a boost and gave him more choices of attack, it didn't limit him or serve as a determent of any sort. Thus it's a powerup.
- Raid Suit, when the user wears it they get an increase in stats & gain a special ability. There is nothing the raid suit is doing that is restricting or going against Sanji. Thus it's a powerup.
In speaking of swords, the following is a powerup:
Yubashiri -> Shusui
Why?
1. Shusui is the better sword in terms of sword quality.
2. Zoro's attacks are stronger with Shusui than with Yubashiri.
3. There is no determent to Zoro when using Shusui at all.
Seastone limits at Udon were the direct cause of Kidd & Luffy gaining physical prowess at Udon.
Weights that put the limit on the body were the direct cause of Zoro gaining physical prowesses all the time.
The Pushups/curls/etc a person does at the gym is the direct cause a person gets better in w.e they were pushing for.
Rock Lee got faster by using ankle weights, does that make ankle weights the powerup or his speed?
Vegeta attained super sayain by pushing himself in the gravity chamber, does that make the gravity chamber his powerup or super sayain?
What differentiates a training tool from a tool that powers you up is the following (using examples above):
- Seastone, they drained Luffy & Kidd's energy, they had to push through it thus exceeding their limits and making gains physically. The seastone here served as a determent to Luffy & Kidd, not as a boost.
- Enma, it drains the haki more than the user wants to a point it causes physical harm to the weilder while providing no actual benefit at all (over shusui that is), Zoro now has to fight against that in order to make his haki better. Enma here is serving as a determent, not as a boost.
VS
- Sabo recieved the mera-mera, he gained a boost in attack prowess & logia intangibility. The DF gave him a boost and gave him more choices of attack, it didn't limit him or serve as a determent of any sort. Thus it's a powerup.
- Raid Suit, when the user wears it they get an increase in stats & gain a special ability. There is nothing the raid suit is doing that is restricting or going against Sanji. Thus it's a powerup.
In speaking of swords, the following is a powerup:
Yubashiri -> Shusui
Why?
1. Shusui is the better sword in terms of sword quality.
2. Zoro's attacks are stronger with Shusui than with Yubashiri.
3. There is no determent to Zoro when using Shusui at all.