Controversial Stop Making ONE PIECE Political!

[Bob74h]

Those are not leftist idea. Even the right should have those ideas. Being against it doesn't make you right, it makes you far right.

It's worse for the right to not have those ideas

because as said before they sell themselves on freedom


so opposing the freedom of homosexuals and transsexuals is inherently contradictory to their beliefs


I kinda have a libertarian view on the matters
that so long as your not harming anyone, there's no reason the government should involve itself with whom you decide to have sexual relations with


I disagree though
being anti trans gender is a inherently right wing position even in current poltitical discourse

I'm not only talking about Goku here, I'm talking about the broader DB story.

Is goku as the protagonist not representative of the story?


I mean afterall the main theme of naruto shippuden tackling hate, Is expressed through naruto uzumaki himself

't negate what I said mate. Db is foundamentaly against evil.

Their friends with beerus

who's job exist to destroy civilizations who are not successful

is that not evil??


I dont agree with the idea of the series being inherently against evil
afterall goku is a amoral protag

he focuses on his martail arts training at the expense of his family
time and time again, almost got universe 7 destroyed by asking zeno about the universal tournament

And.. no.

Thor is just a character and his journey is just a journey, not a story. You can actually create multiple vision depending on the way you choose to portray this journey. For example, in Marvel Thor is just battling threat, but jsut like MArvel's other heroes, he is a fighter of the status quo. The story of thor in Ragnarok is different, it's the story of someone going against the system.

Thor in gow and in marvel have alot in common, assuming you mean god of war when talking about ragnarok


both thors's are enemies to the frost giants
both thor's are sons of odin
both thor's are the brother of baldur
both weild a hammer named mjonir
both have lightning powers
both fight, jourmandr, the world serpent


I could keep going but you get the point



and yea there are differences
the writers of god of war and marvel comics took creative liberties when adapting the myths and that's fine

and both thor's fight for the status quo what do you mean
Both serve asgard, a supreme power which rules over all the realms

Ok give me one.

dbz
superman
Ranma 1/2 and fairy tail was mentioned before. Though that was with response to another user tbf

. Stories are the result of a political and social context.

tropes,and general settings like japan or new york state are just created for the understanding of readers or watchers

it's easy for the reader of spiderman to say have him swing around new york then some made up city as the foundation of how things look and how the social setting would be kinda already exists. plus having it set in that area makes it relatable to americans buying the comic same goes with a manga set in tokyo being relatable to japanese people

Social context is not as inherently poltitical, it can be sure
if it's talking about matters of sexism or racism however just having a game in a american city would not make it poltitical in it of itself


like compare something like metal gear to something like batman spiderman ps4
Despite both being video games in american areas, one is clearly poltitical and one is not

 

[Mathias]

now you guys are being transphobic a bit

Why was my post removed exactly ? I just said the paper he posted wasn't saying what he said it was saying...

 

[AL sama]

Why was my post removed exactly ? I just said the paper he posted wasn't saying what he said it was saying...

maybe I didn't notice

 

[NikaInParis]

One Punch Man AND Versus raws are out at the same time
Peak day tbh

 

[vikas]

I was watching some Jesus crucification videos and just realized that Jesus was tortured and killed and did not get justice infact people made it into a good thing and made him dying for a reason as a good thing for others.

 

[Logiko]

being anti trans gender is a inherently right wing position even in current poltitical discourse

Not really, it's only right wing right now because the far right is oocupying the right space. But in absolute, the right is not about taking away trans right, it would be, like you say, to let them be if they don't hurt the state.

Is goku as the protagonist not representative of the story?


I mean afterall the main theme of naruto shippuden tackling hate, Is expressed through naruto uzumaki himself

Indeed, but for Goku, there are other political idea going through him

Their friends with beerus

who's job exist to destroy civilizations who are not successful

In the context that civilization can be reborn, not so much.

Plus Goku path is all about taming evil. That's what he did with Picollo, that's what he did with Vegeta and that's what he did with Buu.

Thor in gow and in marvel have alot in common, assuming you mean god of war when talking about ragnarok

No, I'm talking about this serie:

dbz

There is like I said a great discourse about the importance of the self development of strenght and the importance of fighting Evil.

superman

Superman is about the importance of using power for great good, but it still a generic political standpoint. Superman do not fight against systemic oppression, he fight big threats, nothing more.

Ranma 1/2 and fairy tail was mentioned before. Though that was with response to another user tbf

Ramna is all about the importance of love overcoming self doubts. Read Ramna until the end. It is a beautiful story about the importance of love and acceptation of one's self.

Fairy Tale is about the fight against big threats and the importance of fighting for your friends. It's not subtle and really engaged but it's still there.

tropes,and general settings like japan or new york state are just created for the understanding of readers or watchers

it's easy for the reader of spiderman to say have him swing around new york then some made up city as the foundation of how things look and how the social setting would be kinda already exists. plus having it set in that area makes it relatable to americans buying the comic same goes with a manga set in tokyo being relatable to japanese people

Social context is not as inherently poltitical, it can be sure

You are confusing a concept "a man that swing around a city" and a story. For one concept we got in the past 20 years 8 very different stories. All results of a political and social context.

like compare something like metal gear to something like batman spiderman ps4
Despite both being video games in american areas, one is clearly poltitical and one is not

No. As long as there is a story, there is a political thread.


Politic is not just about great constitution and reform, politic is first and foremost constitued of little act and little visions and values.


What we call "values" are political visions. They are what we think the society should be or how we should act in society. Here are some examples of small political visions:

- We need to rise up against oppression by force
- We need to fight for what is good
- We need to take responsibility for our actions
- Love can unblind people
- Sacrifice for good can be a necessity


Here I just gave you real political visions and values. Now, let's see how they can translate into stories and movies:

- Rise up against oppression by force : A lot of One Piece narratives
- Fighting for good: Star Wars
- Taking responsibility: Spiderman no way home
- Unblindling love: Romeo and Juliette
- Sacrifice for good can be necessary: Avengers: Endgame.

Politic can be as big as it can be small and subtle, but in stories, it's always there. Without political values, story wouldn't work.

That's why everystory is politic, even One Piece.. In fact One Piece is one big political story constitued of multiple political stories. The politic side of One Piece is undeniable.

 

[Owl Ki]

You know what? Fuck it, I am actually going to respond to this one because I am sick to death of these sodding political threads.

"Oh but One Piece has political themes!!!". Yes that is correct, One Piece does have some political themes. Oda has Caribou imitating an in-universe expy of Che Guevara, he has an obvious hate boner for nobles who abuse their privilege and he clearly dislikes racism and discrimination.

Two things though.

Firstly, themes are just that. Themes. They don't make up the entire fucking story. They are either little things in the background or they are the focus of an arc or a moment (racism in Fishman Island or whenever a Celestial Dragon pops up) before we get back to the fun stuff of pirates beating the shit out of each other, which is what people actually come to see. The themes are seasoning, they aren't the main feckin meal.

Secondly, nobody here actually talks about the political themes of One Piece. They talk about shit that just happened in the news. "The Queen's dead, some countries are having a war, muh US abortion, gun rights, oh look it's the latest Presidential election for some culturally European nation that used to have colonies thus the whole world must take note of it for some reason".

Even worse was some sod about two years back posting every single feckin news headline he could regurgitate onto this forum well after everybody had already seen it because most folk do in fact have a glance at the news. "Oh wow, some volcano blew it's top!". Geez, what meaningful discussion could be had about that? Oh that's right! Fucking none, it's a volcano, that's what they do, that's what they've always done and that's what they're always gonna do.

"Oh you could just ignore it."

Trust me, I've tried. I had a policy of placing everybody that so much as made a political thread onto ignore for a bit. Unfortunately my plan was destined to fail once a shit stirring Admin thought that watching internet apes slinging shit at each other is funny, he started making the threads and lamentably there isn't a way to put a staff member on ignore, never mind the fact that political threads occasionally pop up at such a rate where they literally fill the entire "What's new" page. I would have to ignore the whole damn forum at this rate.

Which then brings me to the question of why should I have to be the one doing the ignoring? Why can't all these political suckers go to an actual politics forum or just social media sites in general? It would be like somebody going to a book club and then doing nothing but playing music and watching movies at full blast and stating to all the book club members "Guys it's fine, just ignore the noise!!"

Lel, no. Piss off. You wanna play music then go to a music club and sod off outta the book club.

Finally, perhaps the only amusing but still pathetic part of all this. The majority of people I see on here involved in political "debates" don't actually want to debate anything considering the average reaction I see to these folk actually coming across written resistance from the dreaded "other side".

This inevitably devolves into chimpanzee shit slinging matches since typically neither side wants to actually debate, they want to be right and detest so much as the sight of the other side. They don't want to discuss, they want to win. They want to simp for whatever political ideology they have sold their soul to and would much rather live in an echo chamber.

Hell, we probably end up with all the degenerate political weirdos since they probably got kicked off of other forms of social media for being a friggen pest.

Like I said elsewhere, anybody that comes to a weeb forum to preach politics is a certified weirdo.

 

[Peroroncino]

You know what? Fuck it, I am actually going to respond to this one because I am sick to death of these sodding political threads.

"Oh but One Piece has political themes!!!". Yes that is correct, One Piece does have some political themes. Oda has Caribou imitating an in-universe expy of Che Guevara, he has an obvious hate boner for nobles who abuse their privilege and he clearly dislikes racism and discrimination.

Two things though.

Firstly, themes are just that. Themes. They don't make up the entire fucking story. They are either little things in the background or they are the focus of an arc or a moment (racism in Fishman Island or whenever a Celestial Dragon pops up) before we get back to the fun stuff of pirates beating the shit out of each other, which is what people actually come to see. The themes are seasoning, they aren't the main feckin meal.

Secondly, nobody here actually talks about the political themes of One Piece. They talk about shit that just happened in the news. "The Queen's dead, some countries are having a war, muh US abortion, gun rights, oh look it's the latest Presidential election for some culturally European nation that used to have colonies thus the whole world must take note of it for some reason".

Even worse was some sod about two years back posting every single feckin news headline he could regurgitate onto this forum well after everybody had already seen it because most folk do in fact have a glance at the news. "Oh wow, some volcano blew it's top!". Geez, what meaningful discussion could be had about that? Oh that's right! Fucking none, it's a volcano, that's what they do, that's what they've always done and that's what they're always gonna do.

"Oh you could just ignore it."

Trust me, I've tried. I had a policy of placing everybody that so much as made a political thread onto ignore for a bit. Unfortunately my plan was destined to fail once a shit stirring Admin thought that watching internet apes slinging shit at each other is funny, he started making the threads and lamentably there isn't a way to put a staff member on ignore, never mind the fact that political threads occasionally pop up at such a rate where they literally fill the entire "What's new" page. I would have to ignore the whole damn forum at this rate.

Which then brings me to the question of why should I have to be the one doing the ignoring? Why can't all these political suckers go to an actual politics forum or just social media sites in general? It would be like somebody going to a book club and then doing nothing but playing music and watching movies at full blast and stating to all the book club members "Guys it's fine, just ignore the noise!!"

Lel, no. Piss off. You wanna play music then go to a music club and sod off outta the book club.

Finally, perhaps the only amusing but still pathetic part of all this. The majority of people I see on here involved in political "debates" don't actually want to debate anything considering the average reaction I see to these folk actually coming across written resistance from the dreaded "other side".

This inevitably devolves into chimpanzee shit slinging matches since typically neither side wants to actually debate, they want to be right and detest so much as the sight of the other side. They don't want to discuss, they want to win. They want to simp for whatever political ideology they have sold their soul to and would much rather live in an echo chamber.

Hell, we probably end up with all the degenerate political weirdos since they probably got kicked off of other forms of social media for being a friggen pest.

Like I said elsewhere, anybody that comes to a weeb forum to preach politics is a certified weirdo.

W

 

[Phoenix D. King]

You know what? Fuck it, I am actually going to respond to this one because I am sick to death of these sodding political threads.

"Oh but One Piece has political themes!!!". Yes that is correct, One Piece does have some political themes. Oda has Caribou imitating an in-universe expy of Che Guevara, he has an obvious hate boner for nobles who abuse their privilege and he clearly dislikes racism and discrimination.

Two things though.

Firstly, themes are just that. Themes. They don't make up the entire fucking story. They are either little things in the background or they are the focus of an arc or a moment (racism in Fishman Island or whenever a Celestial Dragon pops up) before we get back to the fun stuff of pirates beating the shit out of each other, which is what people actually come to see. The themes are seasoning, they aren't the main feckin meal.

Secondly, nobody here actually talks about the political themes of One Piece. They talk about shit that just happened in the news. "The Queen's dead, some countries are having a war, muh US abortion, gun rights, oh look it's the latest Presidential election for some culturally European nation that used to have colonies thus the whole world must take note of it for some reason".

Even worse was some sod about two years back posting every single feckin news headline he could regurgitate onto this forum well after everybody had already seen it because most folk do in fact have a glance at the news. "Oh wow, some volcano blew it's top!". Geez, what meaningful discussion could be had about that? Oh that's right! Fucking none, it's a volcano, that's what they do, that's what they've always done and that's what they're always gonna do.

"Oh you could just ignore it."

Trust me, I've tried. I had a policy of placing everybody that so much as made a political thread onto ignore for a bit. Unfortunately my plan was destined to fail once a shit stirring Admin thought that watching internet apes slinging shit at each other is funny, he started making the threads and lamentably there isn't a way to put a staff member on ignore, never mind the fact that political threads occasionally pop up at such a rate where they literally fill the entire "What's new" page. I would have to ignore the whole damn forum at this rate.

Which then brings me to the question of why should I have to be the one doing the ignoring? Why can't all these political suckers go to an actual politics forum or just social media sites in general? It would be like somebody going to a book club and then doing nothing but playing music and watching movies at full blast and stating to all the book club members "Guys it's fine, just ignore the noise!!"

Lel, no. Piss off. You wanna play music then go to a music club and sod off outta the book club.

Finally, perhaps the only amusing but still pathetic part of all this. The majority of people I see on here involved in political "debates" don't actually want to debate anything considering the average reaction I see to these folk actually coming across written resistance from the dreaded "other side".

This inevitably devolves into chimpanzee shit slinging matches since typically neither side wants to actually debate, they want to be right and detest so much as the sight of the other side. They don't want to discuss, they want to win. They want to simp for whatever political ideology they have sold their soul to and would much rather live in an echo chamber.

Hell, we probably end up with all the degenerate political weirdos since they probably got kicked off of other forms of social media for being a friggen pest.

Like I said elsewhere, anybody that comes to a weeb forum to preach politics is a certified weirdo.

Oda is also about freedom... you cant blame politics for people being unable to have healthy discussions instead of toxic arguments that go nowhere.

Personally, idrc if people want to talk politics, and to act like One Piece isnt at all about poliics is dumb. All media is influenced by politics, its how we view the world and its how creators share their view of the world.

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

You know what? Fuck it, I am actually going to respond to this one because I am sick to death of these sodding political threads.

"Oh but One Piece has political themes!!!". Yes that is correct, One Piece does have some political themes. Oda has Caribou imitating an in-universe expy of Che Guevara, he has an obvious hate boner for nobles who abuse their privilege and he clearly dislikes racism and discrimination.

Two things though.

Firstly, themes are just that. Themes. They don't make up the entire fucking story. They are either little things in the background or they are the focus of an arc or a moment (racism in Fishman Island or whenever a Celestial Dragon pops up) before we get back to the fun stuff of pirates beating the shit out of each other, which is what people actually come to see. The themes are seasoning, they aren't the main feckin meal.

Secondly, nobody here actually talks about the political themes of One Piece. They talk about shit that just happened in the news. "The Queen's dead, some countries are having a war, muh US abortion, gun rights, oh look it's the latest Presidential election for some culturally European nation that used to have colonies thus the whole world must take note of it for some reason".

Even worse was some sod about two years back posting every single feckin news headline he could regurgitate onto this forum well after everybody had already seen it because most folk do in fact have a glance at the news. "Oh wow, some volcano blew it's top!". Geez, what meaningful discussion could be had about that? Oh that's right! Fucking none, it's a volcano, that's what they do, that's what they've always done and that's what they're always gonna do.

"Oh you could just ignore it."

Trust me, I've tried. I had a policy of placing everybody that so much as made a political thread onto ignore for a bit. Unfortunately my plan was destined to fail once a shit stirring Admin thought that watching internet apes slinging shit at each other is funny, he started making the threads and lamentably there isn't a way to put a staff member on ignore, never mind the fact that political threads occasionally pop up at such a rate where they literally fill the entire "What's new" page. I would have to ignore the whole damn forum at this rate.

Which then brings me to the question of why should I have to be the one doing the ignoring? Why can't all these political suckers go to an actual politics forum or just social media sites in general? It would be like somebody going to a book club and then doing nothing but playing music and watching movies at full blast and stating to all the book club members "Guys it's fine, just ignore the noise!!"

Lel, no. Piss off. You wanna play music then go to a music club and sod off outta the book club.

Finally, perhaps the only amusing but still pathetic part of all this. The majority of people I see on here involved in political "debates" don't actually want to debate anything considering the average reaction I see to these folk actually coming across written resistance from the dreaded "other side".

This inevitably devolves into chimpanzee shit slinging matches since typically neither side wants to actually debate, they want to be right and detest so much as the sight of the other side. They don't want to discuss, they want to win. They want to simp for whatever political ideology they have sold their soul to and would much rather live in an echo chamber.

Hell, we probably end up with all the degenerate political weirdos since they probably got kicked off of other forms of social media for being a friggen pest.

Like I said elsewhere, anybody that comes to a weeb forum to preach politics is a certified weirdo.

inserting @Mr. Reloaded's 'you're god damn right' gif

 

[Owl Ki]

Oda is also about freedom... you cant blame politics for people being unable to have healthy discussions instead of toxic arguments that go nowhere.

Freedom is a concept that transcends politics. Not that Oda does a good job of actually exploring it. He only has it as a theme for seasoning.

Politics and people reflect each other. If people are unreasonable and toxic, so are their politics. So yes, I can blame politics since the weirdos who live, breath and eat that shit wherever they go are typically the worst people to have any conversation with.

I had one of those annoying sods on a Discord group that was a one topic pony. Every single fucking conversation that was there would inexplicably turn into religion somehow.

Spoiler: Actual conversations.

Bloke A: "Digimon was cool."

Bloke Z: "Yeah, it taught way more morals than religion ever did."

Bloke A: "Hey, that chick has nice tits."

Bloke Z: "Yeah but she's wearing a crucifix. 1/10"

No word of a smeggin lie, this is how conversations with this weirdo went. That's not normal behaviour. That is just being downright irritating.

Personally, idrc if people want to talk politics, and to act like One Piece isnt at all about poliics is dumb. All media is influenced by politics, its how we view the world and its how creators share their view of the world.

Literally the third and fourth paragraphs of my previous post address this.

Claiming that "Oh One Piece has some political themes thus we should talk about the French presidential election and fill the entire forum with the latest #relevant news headlines" is insultingly disingenuous. You want to be the annoying social ignoramus that plays music in a book club then that is up to you but don't be surprised when the book club members want to toss your arse out.

 

[Mr. Reloaded]

inserting @Mr. Reloaded's 'you're god damn right' gif

 

[Phoenix D. King]

Freedom is a concept that transcends politics. Not that Oda does a good job of actually exploring it. He only has it as a theme for seasoning.

Politics and people reflect each other. If people are unreasonable and toxic, so are their politics. So yes, I can blame politics since the weirdos who live, breath and eat that shit wherever they go are typically the worst people to have any conversation with.

I had one of those annoying sods on a Discord group that was a one topic pony. Every single fucking conversation that was there would inexplicably turn into religion somehow.

Spoiler: Actual conversations.

Bloke A: "Digimon was cool."

Bloke Z: "Yeah, it taught way more morals than religion ever did."

Bloke A: "Hey, that chick has nice tits."

Bloke Z: "Yeah but she's wearing a crucifix. 1/10"

No word of a smeggin lie, this is how conversations with this weirdo went. That's not normal behaviour. That is just being downright irritating.

Literally the third and fourth paragraphs of my previous post address this.

Claiming that "Oh One Piece has some political themes thus we should talk about the French presidential election and fill the entire forum with the latest #relevant news headlines" is insultingly disingenuous. You want to be the annoying social ignoramus that plays music in a book club then that is up to you but don't be surprised when the book club members want to toss your arse out.

which is why i suggested to open a single thread/place for politics so it doesnt flood

 

[Peppercore]

anyway transfem sanji is cool.

 

[Toby D. Dog]

Well, count on Bobby and CarrotforNakama to go at it in every single thread.

 

[Logiko]

You know what? Fuck it, I am actually going to respond to this one because I am sick to death of these sodding political threads.

Oda has Caribou imitating an in-universe expy of Che Guevara

First, this is not a theme, this is a reference.

The themes are seasoning, they aren't the main feckin meal.

They are not.

Firstly, themes are just that. [...] They are either little things in the background or they are the focus of an arc or a moment (racism in Fishman Island or whenever a Celestial Dragon pops up)

No, they are not. Theme are not simple. Theme are not just "that".

A theme is something far deeper than just "yoopee, let's talk about the fishmen and their oppression during an arc or let's reference that obscure political things that once happened in the real world".

Theme are the glue of the story, they are what ties the story together, theme don't just look like refe reference, theme are literally written in the outlining of stories to make it pop up. If you want to understand what I'm saying here, let's take this example of fishmen Island:

Racism. Now, how can you portray that ? Well let's talk about the oppression during an entire arc. Is it sufficient ? NO! To really make a theme shine, you need to make the story echo the theme in
EACH
ONE
OF
ITS
ASPECT.

You first create your story, then create B stories INSIDE the previous stories, then you create an entire environment were the sign of racism can be seen in every aspect of the narrative. THen you make the villain a bigot, but you add the fact that this villain is only expressing racism in reaction to the REAL systemic racism that live the mermaids folk. Then, just like in real life you create systems of segregation, Blood/Quarter etc. To that you add a murder mystery about a story telling the tale of a queen wanting to end racism. You put her kid the direct ally of the main protagonist. Now.. You have a bit of the theme, but you don't have your resolution, the political VISION. How can you make this entire system fall down and create an emotionnal impact with the protagonist and the readers concerning racism? Well you go down deeper into the notion of racism, you take the roots and you cut them down. For that, you use the kid, you make her witness her mother death and witness who the killer is.. and.. you make her NOT RESENT the killer.
Here, you have made a political statement about racism, you went deep to understand its root, you have made a philosophical debate about it. Now you can conclude.. Well how do you do that.. Make the protagonist share litteral blood with one of the oppressed.. Jinbe and Luffy.. And you got a perfect ending.

The theme is therefore respected and is literally gluing the story together.

That's what great themes are. And those are POLITICAL. The politicalness of those theme is not the theme itself. No. It's the manner in which the author chooses to portray those themes and how he will make the characters grow (or not) from those themes.

That's what I mean by : the way we should act in society is an inherent political question.

Which then brings me to the question of why should I have to be the one doing the ignoring? Why can't all these political suckers go to an actual politics forum or just social media sites in general?

Why ?

Simply...

Stories are politicals, and bringing back politic is necessary sometimes to recontextualize the art.

Now, does this mean creating 10 threads a day, no. But having a space to discuss the politic inside a genre or a support or an piece of story is a NECESSITY. Especially in forum like that where the toxicity is rampant, where confusionnist BS are all over the place and where the story is being reappropriated by shady people.

Politics are not "hey the queen just died" or "Hey Biden just made a huge gun reform"...

.. Politics is constituated of ALL the choices we make to live in a society and the vision/values we have on it.

This inevitably devolves into chimpanzee shit slinging matches since typically neither side wants to actually debate, they want to be right and detest so much as the sight of the other side. They don't want to discuss, they want to win. They want to simp for whatever political ideology they have sold their soul to and would much rather live in an echo chamber.

"People are not discussing, they just want to fight and win".

Welcome into reality.

Sometimes, there are wrong and there are right people. Sometimes, the stakes are high enough for a consensus to be needed. This obviously doesn't mean that we need to be toxic, look at me and Bob, we are throwing pics at one another yet we remain civil.

Like I said elsewhere, anybody that comes to a weeb forum to preach politics is a certified weirdo.

Or someone who understands the importance and impact of politics on a reader's mindset. ;)

He only has it as a theme for seasoning.

No mate..

If people are unreasonable and toxic, so are their politics.

Rather the opposite...

Literally the third and fourth paragraphs of my previous post address this.

Claiming that "Oh One Piece has some political themes thus we should talk about the French presidential election and fill the entire forum with the latest #relevant news headlines" is insultingly disingenuous. You want to be the annoying social ignoramus that plays music in a book club then that is up to you but don't be surprised when the book club members want to toss your arse out.

 

[Bob74h]

Not really, it's only right wing right now because the far right is oocupying the right space.

And what do you think far right means other then being further to the right then average
and if the current standard is that trans bad, for the right wing social policy

then that's right wing

In the context that civilization can be reborn, not so much.

Yea but the context being, Is that he literally executes entire planets of people

It's not like he magic's a planet to be reborn

he just kills it


and he's not even doing his job corrrectly
he does not kill bad or not well civilsations as he's supposed to. he just executes people depending on if they piss him off or not

and this can be as minor as eating pudding, he wanted

No, I'm talking about this serie:

never heard of it

I just thought you were talking god of war ragnarok
you know the video game

Superman is about the importance of using power for great good, but it still a generic political standpoint. Superman do not fight against systemic oppression, he fight big threats, nothing more.

There is like I said a great discourse about the importance of the self development of strenght and the importance of fighting Evil.

Yea to some extent


these are themes for those stories
-superman is the captain america of dc,, he stands for justice and the moral thing. he's a herio aftercall
-And goku does care about self improvement of strength


however the problem with you using those themes to say that it's poltitical. Would be it only operates on a context that you use

nobody uses that definition you right so like you saying it's poltitical yea ig according to your standards

but that would be like me saying racism means ducks
Nobody uses that definition, it's a sole idea had by me not reflected by the rest of society

So according to my madeup bs, ducks are racism

By the literal definition of political and the meaning most humans use, these stories are not poltitical

If you wanna invent different meanings for every different word then just make your own forum
where you can have a madeup language that you only speak

If we are talking or communicating, we have to agree on us both speaking English and using commonly defined definitions
Else this will just devolve into semantics about what you think something in your mind versus what im to think it means


At which point, were not even talking about the topic anymore. and rather our own conceived notions of words and what they mean


Im saying it means what google or webster, Just sources people agree on generally

and your using a made up meaning


We cant talk about poltitical as a concept, if your idea of the term is entirely different to mine


I think goku because of google's definition
and so when you dont debunk my statement but instead using your meaning of a word, to argue.

it's just at that point, appealing to only yourself as nobody uses that meaning other then you


And so with your later comments.
there, no point because me debunking your later comments would just be me arguing on behalf of definition which has no point when potitical is a entirely different word then it is to me and the rest of the human race

Post automatically merged: Jan 26, 2023

Im saying it's kinda pointless to have this discourse on what media is poltitical or not
if we have no common understanding of what that term means

And

This obviously doesn't mean that we need to be toxic, look at me and Bob, we are throwing pics at one another yet we remain civil.

Yea, I think the idea should be that mature discourse is ideal
but as the guy said, alot of people shit fling and only simp for whatever side they simp for


that's kinda a problem with politics
people need to be more open minded and try to understand others more

Being hateful and saying these leftists are evil and these right wingers, it's not productive
And we seen the george flyod riots and the captiol riots where alot of poltitical occurred on both sides

We have tribal wars like were chimpanzees, We gotta be better
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gombe...e War, also,unified in the Kasakela community.

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

And what do you think far right means other then being further to the right then average
and if the current standard is that trans bad, for the right wing social policy

then that's right wing





Yea but the context being, Is that he literally executes entire planets of people

It's not like he magic's a planet to be reborn

he just kills it


and he's not even doing his job corrrectly
he does not kill bad or not well civilsations as he's supposed to. he just executes people depending on if they piss him off or not

and this can be as minor as eating pudding, he wanted





never heard of it

I just thought you were talking god of war ragnarok
you know the video game





Yea to some extent


these are themes for those stories
-superman is the captain america of dc,, he stands for justice and the moral thing. he's a herio aftercall
-And goku does care about self improvement of strength


however the problem with you using those themes to say that it's poltitical. Would be it only operates on a context that you use

nobody uses that definition you right so like you saying it's poltitical yea ig according to your standards

but that would be like me saying racism means ducks
Nobody uses that definition, it's a sole idea had by me not reflected by the rest of society

So according to my madeup bs, ducks are racism

By the literal definition of political and the meaning most humans use, these stories are not poltitical

If you wanna invent different meanings for every different word then just make your own forum
where you can have a madeup language that you only speak

If we are talking or communicating, we have to agree on us both speaking English and using commonly defined definitions
Else this will just devolve into semantics about what you think something in your mind versus what im to think it means


At which point, were not even talking about the topic anymore. and rather our own conceived notions of words and what they mean


Im saying it means what google or webster, Just sources people agree on generally

and your using a made up meaning


We cant talk about poltitical as a concept, if your idea of the term is entirely different to mine


I think goku because of google's definition
and so when you dont debunk my statement but instead using your meaning of a word, to argue.

it's just at that point, appealing to only yourself as nobody uses that meaning other then you


And so with your later comments.
there, no point because me debunking your later comments would just be me arguing on behalf of definition which has no point when potitical is a entirely different word then it is to me and the rest of the human race

Post automatically merged: Jan 26, 2023

Im saying it's kinda pointless to have this discourse on what media is poltitical or not
if we have no common understanding of what that term means

And



Yea, I think the idea should be that mature discourse is ideal
but as the guy said, alot of people shit fling and only simp for whatever side they simp for


that's kinda a problem with politics
people need to be more open minded and try to understand others more

Being hateful and saying these leftists are evil and these right wingers, it's not productive
And we seen the george flyod riots and the captiol riots where alot of poltitical occurred on both sides

We have tribal wars like were chimpanzees, We gotta be better
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gombe_Chimpanzee_War#:~:text=The Gombe Chimpanzee War, also,unified in the Kasakela community.

Real

 

[Logiko]

And what do you think far right means other then being further to the right then average
and if the current standard is that trans bad, for the right wing social policy

then that's right wing

Still no, the current right wing, meaning centrist+liberals knows that supporting the trans issue is just normal. The far right on the other hand (confusionnist+conservative+altright) don't understand that.

Once you replace the political spectrum how it belongs, you clearly see that the trans issue is only an issue for the biggots.

Yea but the context being, Is that he literally executes entire planets of people

It's not like he magic's a planet to be reborn

he just kills it


and he's not even doing his job corrrectly
he does not kill bad or not well civilsations as he's supposed to. he just executes people depending on if they piss him off or not

and this can be as minor as eating pudding, he wanted

To explain that some characters could not become Nakama in the world of One Piece, I explained here the notion of redemption.


In a world like One Piece, killing for the pleasure of it IS bad and this can't be redeemed. But in the world of Dragon Ball its different. You can actually be a serial Killer and have a redemption arc.

Why is it ? Well, simple: Because of consequences

In the world of One Piece, you can't bring brack people from death without a specific fruit. But in Dragon ball you actually can. So.. while hurting people is really bad, in Dragon ball the action of killing can be undone so it bears less consequences for the character. For exemple Picollo in One Piece would not be able to have a redemption arc as he was a straight up friend Killer.

Simply, the bar of consequences is higher in One Piece than Dragon ball.


That's why the political impact of the choose in One Piece re more impactfull than Dragon ball when we talk about evil.

never heard of it

Watch it its good.

these are themes for those stories

Not just theme but real values which are small yet real political standpoint.

however the problem with you using those themes to say that it's poltitical.

Technically, themes are not really political (even if they can be) the resolutions are. The choices the character makes are what I call political standpoint as they are the vision of the author on how you should act on life.

nobody uses that definition you right so like you saying it's poltitical yea ig according to your standards

but that would be like me saying racism means ducks
Nobody uses that definition, it's a sole idea had by me not reflected by the rest of society

Again RAcism as a theme is not political. What is political is -for example - saying that we must end racism or that racism comes from a systemic standpoint or that we can reduce racism by accepting our shortcomings..

And you will find those in everystory. It can be subtle or classic like saying "we mustfight for what is good" or it can be more engaged like "we must fight the system to end the oppressions".

All of those are political standpoints that can be delivered through the story and the choices and actions of the characters.

If you wanna invent different meanings for every different word then just make your own forum
where you can have a madeup language that you only speak

You really have a poor understanding of what politic is.. stop following google definition aand read the actual article.

You have a "limited" view of politic while I have an "extensive" vision of it.

"Approaches:
There are several ways in which approaching politics has been conceptualized.

Extensive and limited

Adrian Leftwich has differentiated views of politics based on how extensive or limited their perception of what accounts as 'political' is.[18] The extensive view sees politics as present across the sphere of human social relations, while the limited view restricts it to certain contexts. For example, in a more restrictive way, politics may be viewed as primarily about governance,[19] while a feminist perspective could argue that sites which have been viewed traditionally as non-political, should indeed be viewed as political as well.[20] This latter position is encapsulated in the slogan "the personal is political," which disputes the distinction between private and public issues. Politics may also be defined by the use of power, as has been argued by Robert A. Dahl.[21] "

Actually I have an overextensive vision of politic, a narrative one in the sence that for me, all choices surrounding public and private social affairs are political. For example, saying "You must learn to trust yourself and others" and "We should teach our kid how to learn critical thinking" is AS political as saying "voting is the right political system for a democracy" You can both agree and disagree on those but all are political statements. Some are just more engaged than others but all concern the public and private affair of society.

And frankly I really do not care if that's not your definition or the one of the dico, definition are relatives and this one works a lot better for me and a lot of people (artists/authors/militant/actual politics) than the rest so.. yeah.. Sorry not sorry.

We cant talk about poltitical as a concept, if your idea of the term is entirely different to mine

Well, even in your definition, One Piece is STILL politic so you are STILL wrong. Sorry. I just extended the definition to make you understand the real threads behind real storytelling crafting. Furthermore, your deinition integrate the notion of "public affair" which can be interpretated as social affair too.. so yeah.. even with your definition I would be right.

Im saying it's kinda pointless to have this discourse on what media is poltitical or not

No it's actually very important because it avoid the recuperation of stories from shady groups like the far right. One Piece and others storie like Star Wars are foundamentally leftist. Even if they use right wring trope like the myth of the individual savior or the will that makes you stronger.. the political and social message which constitute 90% of the story are progressive.

So it's important to replace those story in their political context to understand that no.. One Piece is not apolitical, or right wing. it's actually a revolutionnary piece.

We have tribal wars like were chimpanzees, We gotta be better

Wel. no. Sometime if you don't fight head on the opposite side.. Fascism happens.

 

[Bob74h]

In a world like One Piece, killing for the pleasure of it IS bad and this can't be redeemed. But in the world of Dragon Ball its different. You can actually be a serial Killer and have a redemption arc.

Why is it ? Well, simple: Because of consequences

In the world of One Piece, you can't bring brack people from death without a specific fruit. But in Dragon ball you actually can. So.. while hurting people is really bad, in Dragon ball the action of killing can be undone so it bears less consequences for the character. For exemple Picollo in One Piece would not be able to have a redemption arc as he was a straight up friend Killer.

Yea death has more consequences due to revival not being common

And even then, that does not mean murderers cant get redemption arcs just cause their actions have more weight


Obito was redeemed in naruto despite him murdering as much if not more then piccolo
Same goes with shadow the hedgehog in the sonic games



And even greed from fma brotherhood was

Technically, themes are not really political (even if they can be) the resolutions are. The choices the character makes are what I call political standpoint as they are the vision of the author on how you should act on life.

No

Kratos is a bad guy and kills innocents when they stand in his way
A character making choices does not mean it's proof of how author's think people should act

Im fairy certain nobody thinks kratos is a morally just guy hell not even kratos thinks it

Again RAcism as a theme is not political. What is political is -for example - saying that we must end racism or that racism comes from a systemic standpoint or that we can reduce racism by accepting our shortcomings..

Yea, I can see that
like x men tv show kinda had a theme of racism as a example

however it was a theme and it didt take up all the show's run time
There was elements other then the politics as it's not a poltitical manifesto, it's a show meant for entertainment



that's a good example if any of politics in media done right

"Approaches:
There are several ways in which approaching politics has been conceptualized.

Extensive and limited

Adrian Leftwich has differentiated views of politics based on how extensive or limited their perception of what accounts as 'political' is.[18] The extensive view sees politics as present across the sphere of human social relations, while the limited view restricts it to certain contexts. For example, in a more restrictive way, politics may be viewed as primarily about governance,[19] while a feminist perspective could argue that sites which have been viewed traditionally as non-political, should indeed be viewed as political as well.[20] This latter position is encapsulated in the slogan "the personal is political," which disputes the distinction between private and public issues. Politics may also be defined by the use of power, as has been argued by Robert A. Dahl.[21] "

Actually I have an overextensive vision of politic, a narrative one in the sence that for me, all choices surrounding public and private social affairs are political. For example, saying "You must learn to trust yourself and others" and "We should teach our kid how to learn critical thinking" is AS political as saying "voting is the right political system for a democracy" You can both agree and disagree on those but all are political statements. Some are just more engaged than others but all concern the public and private affair of society.

And frankly I really do not care if that's not your definition or the one of the dico, definition are relatives and this one works a lot better for me and a lot of people (artists/authors/militant/actual politics) than the rest so.. yeah.. Sorry not sorry.

If every social relation can be seen as poltitical then nothing is poltitical


we have what you call limited views cause words exist to have a select meaning, Ie something minor so it's easier to vocalize a thought
if every word has eighty meanings that can be applied anywhere and will lead to sentences which are not condesive to a proper commication


If im to say, I have a fairly interpersonal relationship with my friend who does social work on race relations
Then since potitical by your meaning, This would be a actual grammatically correct sentence according to you

I have a fairly poltitical relationship with my poltitical ally who does poltitical work on poltitical relations


you see how dumb that sounds? It's almost like we have different words with limited meanings so we can vocalize and commincate more effectively


This works better for me so dont give a fuck
okay, were done here.

You can have your ideals, I however will use words how the rest of the human race does and you can have your own defintion which only far leftists use