General & Others STORYTELLING - Gear 5 is amazing

[Luffy is the mc]

Come back after a good night sleep, and wtf did I just read ? SSJ transformation encourages and justifies man beating ther wives.
So Nami beating the men in the crew encourages and promotes women beating men ?

 

[Logiko]

SSJ transformation encourages and justifies man beating ther wives.
So Nami beating the men in the crew encourages and promotes women beating men

Who said that ?

 

[Luffy is the mc]

Who said that ?

Someone here implied it about little Timmy who is influential

 

[Logiko]

Someone here implied it about little Timmy who is influential

Yeah. Timmy is influential, but where did you see someone saying/implying? "SSJ transformation encourages and justifies man beating ther wives. " ?

 

[AL sama]

watch "redo of healer" and you'll realize what kinda anime can actually make a child abusive and whatnot

unironically its a seinen and a pretty disgusting one at that

 

[Luffy is the mc]

Yeah. Timmy is influential, but where did you see someone saying/implying? "SSJ transformation encourages and justifies man beating ther wives. " ?

Common dude, it's your own words, you implied that SSJ can make people irl abusive

 

[Logiko]

Common dude, it's your own words, you implied that SSJ can make people irl abusive

Where ?

 

[TheKnightOfTheSea]

No. But One Piece is comparable to those literatures.

 

[Logiko]

Do you believe that the Manga support is less valuable than the book support ?

 

[JoNdule]

We went from cool anime to looney tunes with G5

From Monkey D(awn) Luffy to Monkey D(isney) Looney.

 

[Reborn]

Power through anger is a classic trope in media, a toxic one as it reenforce the thought that when a man gets angry, he will be justified in his anger and show of power and destruction (you can now think how this can be applied in real life). .

Wtf lol

 

[AL sama]

its just his opinion so ignore it

no point in wasting your time over it

 

[TheKnightOfTheSea]

Do you believe that the Manga support is less valuable than the book support ?

Idk what you're saying.

But if you're asking if I think a shonen manga long past it's prime like OP is on the same level as classics like the Illiad and Odyssey that influenced pretty much all literature, hell no

 

[Reborn]

Again. If you're allowing fiction to influence the way you behave in your daily live, the problem is you not the cartoon.

Do not use fiction as a excuse for bad behavior, no normal functioning child nor adult is gonna watch a cartoon and suddenly exhibit a bad behavior. They've always had it in them, because it's a psychological problem.

That was the most retarded shit I read....


Never ever I thought someone will criticize SSJ on grounds that it reinforces men to abuse.

He is going around talking about we don't do objective criticism and then he himself comes up such kind of shit.

Talk about analysing everything through lens of modern day feminism and then having audacity to have superiority complex of being right

 

[notAfanboy]

No. But One Piece is comparable to those literatures.



Oh, you can dislike the technique. But saying is trash is just untrue. Like I mentionned to someone here (don't remember who) Its like talking about expressionnism and impressionism. You can dislike those, but denying there groundbreaking qualities is just ignoring everything about the craft.



No. I want this forum to understand what are fair criticisms (ex : Oda has a problem of Women representation) with ignorant criticisms (ex: the technique used to create the Gear 5 revelation are BS) . I want people to stop throwing words they don't understand like "forshadowing" or "retcon" at random and actually learn REALLY LEARN about what storytelling is all about.

That's what I try to do with the Carrot theory, that's what I try to do with the Yamato fandom and that's what I'm trying to do here with the Gear 5.



Yeah there is nothing worth to reply to here.



Hating a plot twist because of fans is ridiculous.



There is no creativity in Super Sayajin beside the color of the hair and the eyebrows.



He already did with Gear 5


And here is why I can't take people seriously here



I think you didn't read the thread.



No, the reason why Luffy kept fighting was to keep his crew safe and to go away.



Not at all no. You can check back the fight. Lucci was just in the way, no sign of anger.



I'm talking about G2. Stay on page.



No. This was just the first time Luffy used Jet Gatling. Oda always use the last move. The Power of friend ship is bullshit when a character is just surpassing the strenght of his opponent by doing the same thing just because of friendship, here, Luffy has indeed the power to stay still but he uses the right move too.


Note that I'm only talking about transformation. Defeating an ennemy because of anger is perfectly legitimate. My problem comes with the sentance : "more anger = more power". Thing that do Dragon Ball but not One Piece.


Katakuri and Lucci were indeed exceptions. But again, I'm talking about Transformations not the defeat. I repeat that because I think I was unclear on that point.




Hm no.



I'm glad you didn't.



And Kids ?



I never cried here (not that this is something shamefull ndlr) I'm having fun in this debate. I think you don't know me enough lmao


Not the shonen trope per say, the storytelling trope in general.



Someone that can both understand that this is cool, and that its a little bit f*cked up. Both are legitimate.



Nop



I'm using Okham Razor, in this case, the reality warping because of the fruit, perfectly explain Red Hawk. You have the right to disagree, but it wouldn't be very rationnal.


By the fact that Luffy can actually transform his body. This is something only Zoan are capable of.




This is an interesting question.
Taken into account that the ability of the fruit is Rubber + Imagination. The hybrid form are Gear 2 + gear 3 and the full transformation is Gear 4, you can see that because of the cloud scarf around his neak. Gear 5 is the awaken state of all of this. It takes the propriety of both Gear 2 and Gear 3 AND the power of Gear 4.


Since the moment Oda used Gear 2. Pumping blood shouldn't be possible for a rubber man. It's Luffy using his own imagination here. Same, blowing air by bitting his finger shouldn't make his bone bigger and all the more shouldn't permit the air from going to one point to another (check the first gear 3 transformation). We accepted it because its One Piece, its gooffy, Luffy can make his tooth grow back for example.. but the fact is... all of this are inspired by REAL TOON IMAGERY, all of this is REALITY WARPING. That's why I say that Gear 5 is amazing. Because it puts a real explanation for all those things that we accepted because its was funny. Gear 5 took us back to the beginning of the story and WARP our own reality of it. Its in this sence that Gear 5 is so masterfull. This is something that author have HARD time doing, I'm not joking when I say that. This is the first story I read where something so masterfull happens. Even the end of Usual suspect was not that impressive.


Like I said.. its a LOT MORE than that. You and others just have accepted those little detail as part of the story. But I've always questionned those things especially Red Hawk. For god sake.. Oda put that attack in the OCEAN. That should have ringed a bell in ALL your heads. This should not be possible. UNLESS... Nika.


You should know by now that Oda never takes his audience for morons. From a scale to Supergirl TO Breaking Bad, Oda is at least a Game Of throne in that matter (minus the last seasons). Unless he needs to remind you legitimately of something, he does not explain or the least amount possible. He let you discover the story. That's why so many people missed the developpment of Sanji during the entire serie and are putting an L on Sanji during Whole cake. Even his hardcore fans didn't understand his development. So of course you could say that Oda wasn't clear enough. But my guess is that people were just to engaged into illegitimate expectations. They wanted a fight, they didn't get it, so whole cake is an L.. too bad. They didn't understand the story.

People are so used that we explain everything to them and when we don't.. its garbage.. This is why I'm here. I'll do the explanations.



1. I don't see how all of this is applying to Luffy
2. A cliche is not necessaraly a bad thing when used rightly.






The plot twist technique is simple, this was just a distraction. Oda made us think that Luffy's abilities were normal when they were not, simple.

1 - It applies to Luffy becausw of Toki's prophecy and Joyboy awakening
2- So, now you agree that it was not a master piece, just a cliche.

No, it was not distraction. It was bait-and-switch.

 

[JoNdule]

Here:

This is a simple shadowing. With just this pic, people should be able to guess the propriety of the fruit. The actual name ("Nika") is part of the hing it didn't needed to be foreshadowed during the time skip. What matter was the propriety of the fruit:

Rubber + Imagination = limitless power up.

We could also make the link with a possible toon force by this very panel:

The gear 5 was under our nose this entire time.

But we don't even need to know if that was intended or not, the shadowing are HERE so the retroactivity of the plantings are EFFECTIVE. (the retroactivity of plantings is something that I developped in the post)



No, You are just like school studient that think they know better than the teacher. This is something quite common in storytelling studies, I was like that once too.

Lol, that doesn't hint gomu being nika or mythical fruit
We've seen people amp their limbs bigger many times like Luffy does with g3

 

[Uncle Van]

Anger is toxic masculinity now? How does getting angry at a guy for trying to kill your buddies and/or family a toxic behavior for men? Lmao

 

[AL sama]

Anger is toxic masculinity now? How does getting angry at a guy for trying to kill your buddies and/or family a toxic behavior for men? Lmao

come on van we already know don't we

everything needs to be seen through political glasses

 

[Uncle Van]

come on van we already know don't we

everything needs to be seen through political glasses

Oh I know. It's just more and more wild how delusional the guy can be. At leat with Carrot there was an obvious motive but there's nothing to gain here lol

 

[Logiko]

We went from cool anime to looney tunes with G5

From Monkey D(awn) Luffy to Monkey D(isney) Looney.

This is actually a critic that I can accept. One Piece is not for everyone.. It has always been a little looney.

But I find gear 5 really cool shi shi shi

Wtf lol

Yeah, that's an hard pill to swallow

Idk what you're saying.

This was a pretty clear question. Do you believe than books are more valuable than mangas ?

But if you're asking if I think a shonen manga long past it's prime like OP is on the same level as classics like the Illiad and Odyssey that influenced pretty much all literature, hell no

Well, we disagree here :)

Never ever I thought someone will criticize SSJ on grounds that it reinforces men to abuse.

Me neither, that's why I asked him where he found that sentence lol

Talk about analysing everything through lens of modern day feminism and then having audacity to have superiority complex of being right

Who are you talking about lol ?

1 - It applies to Luffy becausw of Toki's prophecy and Joyboy awakening

And that's bad how ?

2- So, now you agree that it was not a master piece, just a cliche.

No, nothing is cliche here

No, it was not distraction. It was bait-and-switch.

No, this was a simple distraction, bait and switch is a little bit different.

Lol, that doesn't hint gomu being nika or mythical fruit

Indeed, that why there is a revelation during the chapter. This only hint the ability of the fruit.

We've seen people amp their limbs bigger many times like Luffy does with g3

Where ?

Anger is toxic masculinity now?

Not necesssaraly, there is legitimate anger. Like for example, I'm angry at the cops of my country right now

What can be dangerous is to print the idea that through anger you get power. This is something that can have actual effect in real life, bad effects.

everything needs to be seen through political glasses

Every story are political :)
One day I will make you all understand that.

But lets come back to the subject please.