General & Others The absurd debacle of Zoro's training
No he doesnt. Roger stole a copy from meme begged his rival for his crew member and everything else fell in his lap beating no one on the way.
He doesnt have to BEAT anyone just cause he WANTS to
HE IS HALFWAY TO RAFTEL WITHOUT HIM DOING ANYTHING.
Neko gave him an rp and brook stole a copy with no help from luffy.
How is all this help fair on EVERY OTHER PIRATE out there.
He doesnt have to BEAT anyone just cause he WANTS to
HE IS HALFWAY TO RAFTEL WITHOUT HIM DOING ANYTHING.
Neko gave him an rp and brook stole a copy with no help from luffy.
How is all this help fair on EVERY OTHER PIRATE out there.
The point isnt about fair. I never said what Zoro did was unfair....albeit it is cheating. All I said is its demeaning and degrading to his own dream and how he wants to achieve it.
Luffy's dream is for a fun adventure to find the OP and to become the PK. And hes getting all of it.
Zoro's dream is to become the WSS....now is that fulfilling when your getting a tutition by the current WSS on how to defeat him and get to his lvl.
Luffy's dream is for a fun adventure to find the OP and to become the PK. And hes getting all of it.
Zoro's dream is to become the WSS....now is that fulfilling when your getting a tutition by the current WSS on how to defeat him and get to his lvl.
You mean his honor? He is ashamed of his choice to get trained, he would have very well preferred to avoid it but no other way to get stronger could hold a candle to being trained by the strongest swordsman on the planet.
I don't bias his choice, I would have done the same.
Bear in mind that Zoro is not an hero, he is just a warrior who lives for getting stronger. He has a moral code, but not the one you may happen to believe.
I don't bias his choice, I would have done the same.
Bear in mind that Zoro is not an hero, he is just a warrior who lives for getting stronger. He has a moral code, but not the one you may happen to believe.
Reread my previous posts.
How is it "taking a dump" on his dream? Mihawk doesn't grant Zoro any buffs just by being there. Zoro still has to become strong based on his own abilities. He still had to unlock haki on his own, still had to increase his strength on his own, learn new moves on his own. Notice Zoro didn't pick up any fighting style from Mihawk, it's still his patented Santoryu. Mihawk but provided him the environment to improve as fast as possible in two years.
How is it "taking a dump" on his dream? Mihawk doesn't grant Zoro any buffs just by being there. Zoro still has to become strong based on his own abilities. He still had to unlock haki on his own, still had to increase his strength on his own, learn new moves on his own. Notice Zoro didn't pick up any fighting style from Mihawk, it's still his patented Santoryu. Mihawk but provided him the environment to improve as fast as possible in two years.
Im gonna keep this simple....who asks their future opponent/Rival/end goal to train them. Its like Luffy asking Blackbeard or Akainu to train him so he can beat them. Or Sanji asking the All Blue for a compass.
Like Zoro asking his dream opponent to train him takes away from the excitement of being able to do it yourself. Its honestly embrassing.
Take Luffy for example. When Usopp asked for the directions to the OP from a person in Roger's crew...this was Luffy's reaction.
Luffy got angry as he was afraid his adventure would be spoiled if he got too much information. Luffy values the adventure and journey that is takes for his goal....so you'd expect Zoro to also value and respect his journey.
But instead Zoro begs the man he wants to defeat to make him stronger. Basically admitting he wont ever get to his lvl without Mihawk himself putting him there. And whether Zoro could get to that lvl without Mihawk is unknown....
And now before yall attack me yes...I get that he begged to get stronger, so he can support Luffy. But did he really need to sacrifice the merits of his own dream and bear the fact that he "cheated" so he could support Luffy on his own dream.
Even Mihawk found it absurd
And this isnt an attack on Zoro's choice...its more of a critisicm on Oda's writing. It was absoultely unnesscary to make Zoro train under the man he wants to defeat. Mihawk got to the position with his own strength and a few pulled strings of the WG. Zoro shouldve done it himself. Now he lost the oppturnity of finding a way to the WSS all by himself. Oda couldve easily found him or created him another sword master....just someone that aside from the man he wants to beat. Its just embrassing.
This is my opinion. Be free to discuss your own. Please do not bring up any other character and go off topic
Like Zoro asking his dream opponent to train him takes away from the excitement of being able to do it yourself. Its honestly embrassing.
Take Luffy for example. When Usopp asked for the directions to the OP from a person in Roger's crew...this was Luffy's reaction.
Luffy got angry as he was afraid his adventure would be spoiled if he got too much information. Luffy values the adventure and journey that is takes for his goal....so you'd expect Zoro to also value and respect his journey.
But instead Zoro begs the man he wants to defeat to make him stronger. Basically admitting he wont ever get to his lvl without Mihawk himself putting him there. And whether Zoro could get to that lvl without Mihawk is unknown....
And now before yall attack me yes...I get that he begged to get stronger, so he can support Luffy. But did he really need to sacrifice the merits of his own dream and bear the fact that he "cheated" so he could support Luffy on his own dream.
Even Mihawk found it absurd
And this isnt an attack on Zoro's choice...its more of a critisicm on Oda's writing. It was absoultely unnesscary to make Zoro train under the man he wants to defeat. Mihawk got to the position with his own strength and a few pulled strings of the WG. Zoro shouldve done it himself. Now he lost the oppturnity of finding a way to the WSS all by himself. Oda couldve easily found him or created him another sword master....just someone that aside from the man he wants to beat. Its just embrassing.
This is my opinion. Be free to discuss your own. Please do not bring up any other character and go off topic
Mihawk literally is not a direct antagonist. Hes not a villain per se like Blackbeard/Akainu. Its a competition between Zoro/Mihawk, not a battle of right and wrong
Literally your personal opinion. There are prodigies around the world who train under others who are the best at their skill (games, sports, studies, etc) to surpass said trainer.
I gave you the reason for why Oda did it. Mihawk is not an "evil" antagonist with clashing ideologies. He didn't perform an evil act that which we know of unlike other villains, and he merely exists for someone to challenge him. Its not "weird" or wrong that Zoro asked him
Having Zoro train under him is not bad writing, in fact, it makes it 100% more realistic how a prodigy (Zoro) can surpass the teacher at such a young age.
Luffy literally studied under the 2nd hand to the Pirate King. Zoro training under anyone else would have not been nearly as convincing or effective. Nobody else has a goal that rivals theirs as a physical feat. It made sense that these were who they trained under during the timeskip.
I gave you the reason for why Oda did it. Mihawk is not an "evil" antagonist with clashing ideologies. He didn't perform an evil act that which we know of unlike other villains, and he merely exists for someone to challenge him. Its not "weird" or wrong that Zoro asked him
Having Zoro train under him is not bad writing, in fact, it makes it 100% more realistic how a prodigy (Zoro) can surpass the teacher at such a young age.
Luffy literally studied under the 2nd hand to the Pirate King. Zoro training under anyone else would have not been nearly as convincing or effective. Nobody else has a goal that rivals theirs as a physical feat. It made sense that these were who they trained under during the timeskip.
@Chrono , you need to go back and read the scene where Zoro bows to Mihawk.
Even Mihawk himself was almost disgusted by Zoro's request. Even Oda acknowledged here that it seems extremely out of cusp for Zoro to beg for training by Mihawk.
Mihawk ONLY accepted him because he states that he wants to get stronger for Luffy, as well as surpassing Mihawk. The point of the scene was to show that this is the driving point home where Zoro's dream became secondary to Luffy's in Zoro's eyes, if it wasn't clear enough when he nearly sacrificed his life for Luffy at Thriller Bark.
This is not bad writing. This was entirely intentional by Oda.
Even Mihawk himself was almost disgusted by Zoro's request. Even Oda acknowledged here that it seems extremely out of cusp for Zoro to beg for training by Mihawk.
Mihawk ONLY accepted him because he states that he wants to get stronger for Luffy, as well as surpassing Mihawk. The point of the scene was to show that this is the driving point home where Zoro's dream became secondary to Luffy's in Zoro's eyes, if it wasn't clear enough when he nearly sacrificed his life for Luffy at Thriller Bark.
This is not bad writing. This was entirely intentional by Oda.
Not seeing what the problem here is. The series’ theme is inherited will, has been since the very first chapter where Shanks gave Luffy his hat. Old and middle gen (Garp, Rayleigh, Dragon, Mihawk) cultivate the new generation (Luffy, Coby, Sabo, Zoro).
Japanese culture places a special emphasis on master/student/senpai/kohai relationships. Asking your rival for advice or assistance isn’t meant to be a strike against Zoro, but rather highlights his devotion to his captain. Surpassing the master or senpai is an extremely common theme in Japanese literature; examining this issue from an individualistic Western perspective is unhelpful and myopic.
Japanese culture places a special emphasis on master/student/senpai/kohai relationships. Asking your rival for advice or assistance isn’t meant to be a strike against Zoro, but rather highlights his devotion to his captain. Surpassing the master or senpai is an extremely common theme in Japanese literature; examining this issue from an individualistic Western perspective is unhelpful and myopic.
C
Every place the strawhats were sent to during the Timeskip has a revolutionary army connection
(1) Robin to the bridge that was eventually saved by revos
(2) Franky to Vegapunk island (he might be so secret a revo that even the top commanders don’t even know about it, for fear of betrayal from within Dragon keeps it a secret only to himself (see Lindbergh being the traitor)
(3) Sanji to Okama kingdom (headquarters soon to be)
(4) Nami to weatheria where we can rightly infer the revos get hold of science to be able to create and maintain various weather phenomenon to keep hostiles away from ever locating their headquarter (until Burgess) + to make better weapons
(5) Usopp to the island where Heracles reigns supreme, with fast growing carnivorous plants (that together with weather science seems like a good combo for warfare, ie Nami and Usopp beating Tobi Roppi)
(6) Luffy to the Amazon Lily, a safe haven for revos, where the old lady likely having had a illustrious past in the Rocks, who knows...
(7) Chopper to study medicine at the “isle of treasure” (maybe given the name there is a deeper allusion with the plateaued island being governed by birds, who knows?). They had a whole library of pristine knowledge when it comes to medicine, the books here likely containing various records of hidden knowledge passed down for the ancient kingdom, kept safe by the Revolutionary Army and entrusted to the tribe
(8) Brook was sent to the « island of poverty » where a tribe of Satan worshippers reside. They’re preyed on by human traffickers, the longarm tribe. The island is a barren wasteland with small rundown houses. This place probably used to be a flourishing place where Revos used to dock when sailing through Paradise. Now the people are so desolate they literally have tried to summoning demons. That’s how desperate the situation has become. In common with Chopper, he is tasked with helping people from evil and/or forces of nature beyond the control of the people
(9) Zoro being sent to the island where Mihawk resides only confirms Mihawk is allied to the revo cause. Bottom line. That’s the only reason why I see Oda having Zoro placed there. It’d be much more appropriate to have Zoro train under someone that’s just as good (Vista lol) if a showdown between Zoro and Mihawk is even going to be a thing. So I have Mihawk being a revolutionary, the only swordsman (and fittingly the revos have got the strongest swordsman on their team (unless you count Vista)).
All the strawhats are getting somehow more connected with the revolutionary army: it’s history, it’s ideals and ambitions, their connections, their various ways of making use of knowledge and science for combat purposes (weatheria, Vegapunk island).
The way I see it the revolutionary army will likely fall, and at some point the strawhats will take up the mantle and struggle of the revos. The whole timeskip was Kuna’s way of introducing them to what the revolutionary army is all about. For Zoro’s part that was just basic training with their strongest warrior (outside of Dragon). One day Mihawk will fall, and Zoro will not only avenge him but come to replace him as the swordsman of the new revolutionary movement.
(1) Robin to the bridge that was eventually saved by revos
(2) Franky to Vegapunk island (he might be so secret a revo that even the top commanders don’t even know about it, for fear of betrayal from within Dragon keeps it a secret only to himself (see Lindbergh being the traitor)
(3) Sanji to Okama kingdom (headquarters soon to be)
(4) Nami to weatheria where we can rightly infer the revos get hold of science to be able to create and maintain various weather phenomenon to keep hostiles away from ever locating their headquarter (until Burgess) + to make better weapons
(5) Usopp to the island where Heracles reigns supreme, with fast growing carnivorous plants (that together with weather science seems like a good combo for warfare, ie Nami and Usopp beating Tobi Roppi)
(6) Luffy to the Amazon Lily, a safe haven for revos, where the old lady likely having had a illustrious past in the Rocks, who knows...
(7) Chopper to study medicine at the “isle of treasure” (maybe given the name there is a deeper allusion with the plateaued island being governed by birds, who knows?). They had a whole library of pristine knowledge when it comes to medicine, the books here likely containing various records of hidden knowledge passed down for the ancient kingdom, kept safe by the Revolutionary Army and entrusted to the tribe
(8) Brook was sent to the « island of poverty » where a tribe of Satan worshippers reside. They’re preyed on by human traffickers, the longarm tribe. The island is a barren wasteland with small rundown houses. This place probably used to be a flourishing place where Revos used to dock when sailing through Paradise. Now the people are so desolate they literally have tried to summoning demons. That’s how desperate the situation has become. In common with Chopper, he is tasked with helping people from evil and/or forces of nature beyond the control of the people
(9) Zoro being sent to the island where Mihawk resides only confirms Mihawk is allied to the revo cause. Bottom line. That’s the only reason why I see Oda having Zoro placed there. It’d be much more appropriate to have Zoro train under someone that’s just as good (Vista lol) if a showdown between Zoro and Mihawk is even going to be a thing. So I have Mihawk being a revolutionary, the only swordsman (and fittingly the revos have got the strongest swordsman on their team (unless you count Vista)).
All the strawhats are getting somehow more connected with the revolutionary army: it’s history, it’s ideals and ambitions, their connections, their various ways of making use of knowledge and science for combat purposes (weatheria, Vegapunk island).
The way I see it the revolutionary army will likely fall, and at some point the strawhats will take up the mantle and struggle of the revos. The whole timeskip was Kuna’s way of introducing them to what the revolutionary army is all about. For Zoro’s part that was just basic training with their strongest warrior (outside of Dragon). One day Mihawk will fall, and Zoro will not only avenge him but come to replace him as the swordsman of the new revolutionary movement.
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