Current Events The growth of the Straw Hats is honestly ridiculous.

[Kurozumi Wiwi]

I don't think the problem is because of SHs age, most shonen are like this.
What feels wrong to me is that it feels like Oda skipped a step when it comes to straw hats growth.
Paradoxically Luffy is the straw hat which the growth feels the most right, him reaching top tier level so young might feel strange, but since the timeskip he had a lot of hard fights where he almost died and was forced to either show a new ability (the three forms of G4) Or/and improve his haki while most straw hats last real fight they won was against hody men in fishman island. Going from that to beating emperor top dogs feel jarring. What's the message ? Mid trio was top new world veteran fighter all along because off-screen training?
If Wano is the "enies lobby" of New World (straw hats showing they can compete at the top of this sea like they showed they were at the top of paradise) we should have gotten an "Alabasta" beforehand where every straw hat was pushed hard and grew from it. Straw hats getting tnear the top because they trained 2 years off-screen is very boring imo. Oda focused too much on Luffy growth and not the others.

 

[chacharealsmooth]

If he went with the most realistic route, Sanji would have to deal with Daifuku at most this arc and would need significant amount of help against him. That was why Sanji was powered up so much in the first place because he turned out to be the weakest SH alongside Usopp.

 

[nik87]

I already see people cant wrap their heads around how Sanji can beat Queen while he cant beat Doflamingo who they consider below Queen.
Firstly and most importantly, there is this thing called match-ups and they determine almost everything. Queen is a far better match-up for Sanji than Doflamingo is. Secondly, as bad as Doffy's offense is, he is not below Queen. Nothing wrong with SHs' growth.

 

[Arrow]

In Oda's head, the SHs are already close to a Yonko crew coming out the TS with only Luffy needing PUs until he's Top tier level and giving Enma to Zoro and RS to Sanji to fight YCs.

The problem is the readers don't see that because there hasn't been much examples where we would think these guys are close to a Yonko level crew. A lot of people didn't see the Mid trio beating the TP but Oda already had them that strong in his head.

I think the biggest mistake in the PostTS was Dressrosa. You had a Warlord crew in the New World facilitating the entire Underworld, that establishes how strong they were. If the SHs were to have their 1v1s here before Wano, no one would question (after the PUs) they couldn't handle a Yonko crew. Doffys crew even had great match ups for the SHs.

Law/Luffy vs Doffy/Trebol - Law fight Doffy first and Luffy fights Trebol but they both lose (luffy doesn't know how Trebol body works) then they switch. Law mid diff, Luffy high diff.
Zoro vs Diamante - Top dog in coliseum and taught Law how to fight with sword, perfect opponent for Zoro but still mid diff.
Sanji vs Vergo rematch - it was a mistake killing him. Both infiltrates the opponent, similar fighting styles, fullbody CoA vs HM. Sanji high diffs.
Usopp/Chopper vs Pica - Usopp CoO literally is pinpointing where someone is, Chopper MP cleans up or King Punch finishes it.

If we had these fights instead, everyone would have a better idea of what Oda is thinking but he fucked up cause no one saw it that way. Now instead of thinking the mid trio are strong, everyone thinks the TP are weak and disappointing.

 

[Formerly Seth]

What fucking growth.

Aside from Luffy, Zoro, Jinbe, Sanji, and Franky everyone else dies without plot armor if they encounter formidable opponents.

 

[Hurley Pirates]

A few things.

Using Hody as a basis in the first place is wrong. Luffy was SEVERAL TIMES Stronger then Hody when they fought. He was already capable of pushing High Tiers like doffy when he entered the New World.

I also believe Doffy > Queen so im biased but I dont see a problem with Sanji not getting to Doffy pre gama knife with Zero knowledge.

Like this post isnt accouting for matchups

Also Generally characters elevate based on being pushed, training and motivational factors. Luffy has been gettin constantly pushed, trained and put in high leverage situations since Dressrosa. Zoro and Sanji have fought a bunch (maybe not 1 v 1's but they have been fighting and in high leverage situations) and last chapter they literally said they can see Luffy becoming PK if they win here. That level of motivation gonna make them bloom in the moment/battle.

A lot goes into the OP powerscale/growth, a lot of the time it is more narrative then it is logical but its not ridiculous to me

 

[Germa66]

Most of them would not.

Like how most of them don’t follow Batman, Superman, Thor, Ironman, Flash, and the entire multiverse of grown ass superheroes right?

Lmao. Your point makes no sense

 

[Garp the Fist]

Like how most of them don’t follow Batman, Superman, Thor, Ironman, Flash, and the entire multiverse of grown ass superheroes right?

Lmao. Your point makes no sense

Considering we’re talking about Japanese school kids, no, they don’t.

 

[Germa66]

Consdiering we’re talking about Japanese school kids, no, they don’t.

Yep so pretend manga and anime isn’t a global phenomenon while seeming even dumber to pretend that superheroes aren’t aswell lmao.

Even funnier is that “school kids” isn’t even the target demographic. Get real. There are plenty of older characters like Naruto who still retain their popularity

 

[Garp the Fist]

Yep so pretend manga and anime isn’t a global phenomenon while seeming even dumber to pretend that superheroes aren’t aswell lmao.

Even funnier is that “school kids” isn’t even the target demographic. Get real. There are plenty of older characters like Naruto who still retain their popularity

It might be a global phenomenon, but first and foremost shonen is always aimed at Japanese teenagers, who prefer a younger cast.

 

[Germa66]

It might be a global phenomenon, but first and foremost shonen is always aimed at Japanese teenagers, who prefer a younger cast.

Do they though? What’s the source behind that? It’s more of a trope that MC’s are teenagers/young adults, not because it sails more.

Just look at Dragon Ball, it was more popular when it was Dragon Ball Z featuring adult Goku rather than just Dragon Ball with him as a kid or GT.

 

[Banchi]

The target demographic is to blame and those that decided to use this as an excuse to shit on Sanji only manage to prove that.

 

[Sir Tuna Sandwich II]

This what you get for supporting a hack

Post automatically merged: Aug 22, 2021

post ts is trash anyways

Yonko saga is trash anyways*

 

[duckman]

If he went with the most realistic route, Sanji would have to deal with Daifuku at most this arc and would need significant amount of help against him. That was why Sanji was powered up so much in the first place because he turned out to be the weakest SH alongside Usopp.

Let's not pretend that Sanji wasn't YC level, but you guys worked so hard to downplay him, Say everythign abiut him beign strong was a "gag" or a "joke". Ignore him effortlessly swatting away Oven, and so on. When it urns out the "wankers" were correct, you all act shocked. Be socked at your own stupidity. "PageOne rematch with help at most lol"

 

[Rukusho]

Do they though? What’s the source behind that? It’s more of a trope that MC’s are teenagers/young adults, not because it sails more.

Just look at Dragon Ball, it was more popular when it was Dragon Ball Z featuring adult Goku rather than just Dragon Ball with him as a kid or GT.

Well we have to keep in mind in Japan the manga wasn’t separated into DB/DBZ it was all one unit back in the day just simply DB as a whole continuation from kid Goku to adult Goku.

But 100% @Garp the Fist is correct the demographic is meant for teenagers that’s what literally Shonen means in Japanese age 12 - 18.

You’re argument also holds weight though since Odas work has been running since 1996-7 so we’re all going to age the people who were reading one piece back then now have families and careers so I’d think Oda would adapt as well

 

[Warchief Sanji D Goat]

"OMG, why is Luffy went from fighting Hody Jones to fighting Kaido, this is plot armor PIS at its finest."

"OMG, why is Sanji went from getting his leg broken by Vergo and getting negged by Doffy to fighting Queen!!!! This is bad, Sanji is not supposed to be strong."

Also them: "Oh, Zoro went from fighting Pica and fainted against Kamazou to fighting Kaido and Big Mom, I'm totally fine with that. Grandmaster hype!!!!!"

Me:

 

[Sir Tuna Sandwich II]

P

"OMG, why is Luffy went from fighting Hody Jones to fighting Kaido, this is plot armor PIS at its finest."

"OMG, why is Sanji went from getting his leg broken by Vergo and getting negged by Doffy to fighting Queen!!!! This is bad, Sanji is not supposed to be strong."

Also them: "Oh, Zoro went from fighting Pica and fainted against Kamazou to fighting Kaido and Big Mom, I'm totally fine with that. Grandmaster hype!!!!!"

Me:

Pica and Kamazou would've kill Sanjino

 

[ankama]

Fishman island, punk hazard, dressrosa, happened in 3 days.

Wait? Really?
Are you absolutely sure about this?

 

[garciajulieen]

I agree that it would be better if the shs was older and make the timeskip longer.

I remember when I was a kid (I'm 32 now), I saw goku and vegeta from dbz as amazing. And they were obviously adult having kids when they fought Bhu.

 

[Paperchampion23]

Not even gonna pretend like I wrote this, found it on reddit ( https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/p7xaxc/_/h9nnm65 ) and it's something I agree with completely.

"I’ll be straight up, the twenty-year prophecy plot device is not a great idea.

It has forced Oda to write Fishman Island - Wano which has been about ten years for us, in a month.

No matter what excuse you make, going from fighting Hordy Jones to Kaido in a matter of weeks makes absolutely no sense.

The Straw Hats have been a pirate crew for a couple of years, and everyone else has been a pirate for a majority of their lives, yet here we are, beating up an emperors crew, when half of the SHs can’t even use Haki.

Oda should’ve aged the crew at least a little bit, because I’m having a hard time dealing with Sanji who couldn’t even hurt Doflamingo a couple of weeks ago fighting and defeating Queen.

For us, it’s been a long time, so it feels like he should be ready, but in reality, it’s been a couple of weeks. Give me a break."

Luffy went from struggling against Arlong to beating Crocodile, Enel, Lucci and Moria in a few months. Crocodile has been around as long as Doflamingo. Moria has been around just as long. Both taken out by a 17 year old.

Suspend your disbelief. All shonen manga do this. Ichigo is not that old yet can surpass shinigami who have been training for a 1000 years. Naruto is 16 and saved the world over Kage's.

Post automatically merged: Aug 22, 2021

Yeah but it is shonen nekketsu. I mean the main cast growth rate is always absurd in this kind of story.

Remember that the demographic those stories are aimed for are 13 years old. When you where 13 years old did you want to follow the story of a guy who were a 50 years old veteran or the story of a kid who becomes the strongest, while making a ton of friends and having a bunch of girls falling for him, because he is very talented?

This, maybe I should have read through this thread before posting lol. You describe it way better than I could