The Legend Of Zelda Discussion Thread

Well, tbh, I like a certain linearity when it comes to dungeons.
For example:

The "3 starter dungeons" in which you have a goal to collect something in order to continue with the plot.
The first dungeon should be finished first, afterwards the 2 other dungeons can be visited at choice.

After that, after the plot has advanced quite a bit, the following 3-5 dungeons can be freely visited at choice.

Don't get me wrong: I totally like the overworld freedom of BotW but if you want to see a very good story and plot, I think there has to be a certain kind of linearity. When I directly went at Calamity Ganon to beat his ass - without going to Impa or doing the Divine Beasts at all - I felt like this made all subplots obsolete.



Vaati, Agahnim and Ghirahim.
I wouldn't miss Demise since Ganondorf is basically Demise. The latter was just important to tell the origin of the master sword and the cause of Ganondorf's power, hatred and the eternal circle of reincarnation.
I talk about A Link between World´s,not BotW

While BotW has the freedom with the 4 Titans as well,ALbW has it with around 6 Dungeons.Go to Ravio,pick the Item you need for in whatever Dungeon is needed.Titans are also out of Place and Calamity Ganon are...i dont know,he dont feels like a big threat at all.

Majora,Ganondorf(OoT/TP) or Yuga are doing a far better Job in that case.BotW is a great and awesome game but its not the best Zelda
 
I talk about A Link between World´s,not BotW
I know.
I just wanted to describe how I liked the ALBW concept and how they handled the dungeons.

Imo BotW did a terrible job at the dungeons.

While BotW has the freedom with the 4 Titans as well,ALbW has it with around 6 Dungeons.Go to Ravio,pick the Item you need for in whatever Dungeon is needed.Titans are also out of Place
(This is also interesting for you people, @Fleet Admiral Lee Hung, @Buusatan94, @Cross_Marian, @Zoro D Goat, @playa4321, @EtenBoby and @Garp the Fist)

Well, the dungeons in BotW have more freedom but ALBW's dungeons are still far better imo.

I'll elaborate why: The dungeons do not only have the issues of not having interesting individual designs, lacklusting performance of enemies and the most pitiful dungeons of the entire series, the dev team apparently thought it would be a good idea to remove any linearity to move forward in a dungeon since they thought the overworld mechanics should be performed in the dungeons as well.
This destroyed the narrative of interesting puzzles as you can simply skip through them (I did it a lot), with no obstacles like keys or closed doors to prevent those steps - that's a heavy issue, especially for sth like BotW.
There are not many enemies - only a few mini weak guardians and some skull enemies - to prevent your way either which makes it even worse.

So what would be better? Removing BotW overworld mechanics and including more themed-based dungeons - it would have even worked with the Divine Beasts which was a good dungeon idea tbh. Also, as you can see the concept arts, they really planned to bring 10 huge (!) Divine Beasts with their own individual design.

You can see it here:




I mean look at the early designs of the 4 Divine Beasts. Look at Vah Medoh for example; the design is completely different BUT it seems Vah Medoh was supposed to have far more rooms than the current version as the windows and doors (?) speak for it.

Vah Naboris looks similar to the current version (and weirdly, it's also the best Divine Beast in terms of puzzles and overall performance imo).
Vah Rudania is larger than the current version as well; steam comes outta the Divine Beast which includes lots of puzzles of said theme.
Vah Ruta has different layers as you can see at the windows and doors, it also looks way larger than the current version.

I think the dev team were forced to CUT LOTS OF IDEAS AND STUFF because of the deadline.
They already had massive problems at developing the physics engine which cost them a few years (you guys can look this up at their interviews), so it's reasonable why they couldn't properly do the dungeons.

I mean, we do not talk about cutting one or two dungeons - like in Wind Waker - we are talking about cutting six dungeons from the story. That's a lot of cutted content.

In conclusion, it's not like they intent to change the whole dungeon concept this dramatically - in negative terms - I think, they had no other choice to abandon lots of interesting ideas. Don't forget, game development is ALSO BUSINESS. So if the deadline is too near, they have no choice to cut some things off.
I'm sure as fuck they didn't like it either - that's why they intent to do classic dungeons in the sequel again. Perhaps they'll implement many ideas from the cut Divine Beasts into the new dungeons.

and Calamity Ganon are...i dont know,he dont feels like a big threat at all.
Although you are right, I think this ain't bad since we know that Calamity Ganon is basically "just" another Phantom Ganon and the true antagonist lies beneath Hyrule.

Majora,Ganondorf(OoT/TP) or Yuga are doing a far better Job in that case.
I agree.

BotW is a great and awesome game but its not the best Zelda
It's the best Zelda in terms of exploration and overworld but the weakest when it comes to dungeons (also a crucial part of the Zelda series).
 
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@Fleet Admiral Lee Hung, @Buusatan94, @Cross_Marian, @Zoro D Goat, @playa4321, @EtenBoby @Garp the Fist

Yo, that's freaking insane.
The Art Director explained the very design of said 10 Divine Beasts:

https://doutzen-kroes.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F185794151151
"Despite their strong resemblance to animals in silhouette, they also contain elements of palaces, factories, and bridges. They were designed to look like living machines and possess traits that make them both cute and unsettling."

Guys, I can already SEE THEIR LOVE AND PASSION DRAWING THE DESIGN OF THESE DIVINE BEASTS! Man, it's such a shame that they had to cut lots of this interesting stuff.
Post automatically merged:

Yeah, I already knew lots of information of the book. Very interesting indeed.
 
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Lee Ba Shou

Conqueror of the Stars
So what would be better? Removing BotW overworld mechanics and including more themed-based dungeons
I don’t think you need to choose between one or the other. I really think Nintendo could’ve made the Divine Beasts themed dungeons if they wanted to and not have sacrificed any of the exploration aspects of the game.

But if I had to choose, I’ll take atmosphere over exploration 10/10 times, especially in games like Breath of the Wild where you can physically see the entire map almost right at the start of the game. BotW to me definitely suffers from the “Big Empty Field” syndrome. It doesn’t feel so much like I’m exploring a world when I can see the entire thing right from the outset.

It may just be me but if I see a giant open field...I’m done lol. I don’t need to physically set foot on every inch of that field to feel like I’ve explored it. It’s a big field, I get it.

I think this is why Dark Souls & Dark Souls 3 captivated me so hard recently. Just look at Anor Londo:


You only explore 2-3 buildings in this city, but the entire city itself goes to create the atmosphere of a ruined city constructed by gods that has been lost to the flow of time. If anything, not being able to explore the entire thing just makes me that much more intrigued about the world of Lordran and its history. Lost Izalith is another great example:



By the time you trek through the Demon Ruins and all of the monstrous foes therein, Lost Izalith feels like you are literally entering the pits of hell, and you’ve descended far lower in the world than you were ever meant to.

The Divine Beasts were supposed to be a huge aspect of BotW’s plot but they feel like afterthoughts without much identity. Hyrule City/Castle in the end was incredible for me because of its atmosphere, it perfectly captured the feeling of a once great castle that was ruined by the Calamity.

This is why Majora is my favorite Zelda game, it commits harder to its abstract atmosphere than any other Zelda game commits to its relatively simple atmosphere imo. I could go on but this post is lingering lol.
 
I don’t think you need to choose between one or the other. I really think Nintendo could’ve made the Divine Beasts themed dungeons if they wanted to and not have sacrificed any of the exploration aspects of the game.
I think you misunderstood me or rather I phrased it wrongly.
What I meant with "removing BotW overworld mechanics", it was about the fact that said overworld mechanics - the whole physics engine and the freedom aspect - was ALSO used on the dungeons. Thus, said mechanics was used on a concept which wouldn't work at all.

Therefore, of course both can function as long as the dungeons follow its traditional terms.

But if I had to choose, I’ll take atmosphere over exploration 10/10 times, especially in games like Breath of the Wild where you can physically see the entire map almost right at the start of the game. BotW to me definitely suffers from the “Big Empty Field” syndrome. It doesn’t feel so much like I’m exploring a world when I can see the entire thing right from the outset.
I 100% agree.

Don't get me wrong, I love BotW overworld BUT I'm afraid there is no really significant remarkable and memorable places outside of the Faron region and Central Hyrule. Especially the beach suffers from it, you can also read a valid explanation - ie, the one link which @playa4321 posted - why it's empty like that.

It may just be me but if I see a giant open field...I’m done lol. I don’t need to physically set foot on every inch of that field to feel like I’ve explored it. It’s a big field, I get it.
I'm sure the dev team will add lots of new stuff into the BotW 2 map, it will almost look like it's a new map.

You only explore 2-3 buildings in this city, but the entire city itself goes to create the atmosphere of a ruined city constructed by gods that has been lost to the flow of time. If anything, not being able to explore the entire thing just makes me that much more intrigued about the world of Lordran and its history. Lost Izalith is another great example:
Absolutely.
Levels in DS/DS3 are magnicient in general due to its phenomenal designs and how each level is connected to the whole world.

You do not even really need openworld to create such a feeling of freedom. Therefore I hope, the Zelda team recognizes it too and starts mixing up freedom and linearity at once.

I do not need to beat the final boss in the first minutes or hours. I do not need to directly visit powerful areas to feel freedom. As long as the game captures the pure atmosphere of beautiful and connected level designs along with exploration, I'm absolutely fine with it, even if - for example - you are restricted exploring a single area in the sequel.
After all, I believe the sole focus will be on the story and dungeons this time - that's why the dev team was looking for competent level designers for dungeons.

By the time you trek through the Demon Ruins and all of the monstrous foes therein, Lost Izalith feels like you are literally entering the pits of hell, and you’ve descended far lower in the world than you were ever meant to.
That's why atmosphere is also heavily important in video games.
Look at Termina for example, all areas captured a very impressive feeling of abstract atmosphere and in lore stuff. Or Wind Waker with the Great Sea.

Btw, soundtracks are part of said atmosphere; I agree that soft music isn't bad if you explore stuff in Central Hyrule but I feel like they still made it TOO easy. There are 10 regions, yet almost all regions share the same boring soundtracks.
I'd have liked to have a more themed-based soundtrack in the Faron region or Lanayru region - on the other hand, the Death Mountain has its own soundtrack as well as snow regions. Yet again, they are not that atmospheric compared to other Zelda titles.

The Divine Beasts were supposed to be a huge aspect of BotW’s plot but they feel like afterthoughts without much identity.
As I said, BotW was supposed to have 10 dungeons, thus 10 Divine Beasts.

Did you see the images?

https://doutzen-kroes.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F185794151151
"Despite their strong resemblance to animals in silhouette, they also contain elements of palaces, factories, and bridges. They were designed to look like living machines and possess traits that make them both cute and unsettling."

It's actually insane how many thoughts they had how to make each individual Divine Beast interesting with bridges, palaces or factories. Therefore, it's highly likely they tried to mix traditional themed-dungeons with new ideas, for example mobile dungeons. That would have been a great idea.

I mean, Vah Ruta would have 4 - 6 large layers with many small and large rooms, like a solid 3D Zelda dungeon.
And all other 3 Divine Beasts do not look that small either, especially Vah Medoh.

Compared to the previous Vah Medoh, this one is rather a joke:



The whole wing area is actually the boss room meanwhile OG Vah Medoh had several large palaces- or factories-like rooms in which one of them could easily be a boss room as well.

Hyrule Castle was great because it's large, had an epic soundtrack and its atmosphere was phenomenal - although it also quite suffered from BotW's overworld mechanics...
Anyway, the Divine Beasts were meant to be hardly less than Hyrule Castle as you can see what the Art Director described.

This is why Majora is my favorite Zelda game, it commits harder to its abstract atmosphere than any other Zelda game commits to its relatively simple atmosphere imo.
IMO all Zelda games - especially the 3D ones - are very close in comparison. However, if I have to choose a game, it'd be OOT, followed by MM, WW and TP.
But in terms of atmosphere, it's definitely MM.
 
I don’t think you need to choose between one or the other. I really think Nintendo could’ve made the Divine Beasts themed dungeons if they wanted to and not have sacrificed any of the exploration aspects of the game.

But if I had to choose, I’ll take atmosphere over exploration 10/10 times, especially in games like Breath of the Wild where you can physically see the entire map almost right at the start of the game. BotW to me definitely suffers from the “Big Empty Field” syndrome. It doesn’t feel so much like I’m exploring a world when I can see the entire thing right from the outset.

It may just be me but if I see a giant open field...I’m done lol. I don’t need to physically set foot on every inch of that field to feel like I’ve explored it. It’s a big field, I get it.

I think this is why Dark Souls & Dark Souls 3 captivated me so hard recently. Just look at Anor Londo:


You only explore 2-3 buildings in this city, but the entire city itself goes to create the atmosphere of a ruined city constructed by gods that has been lost to the flow of time. If anything, not being able to explore the entire thing just makes me that much more intrigued about the world of Lordran and its history. Lost Izalith is another great example:



By the time you trek through the Demon Ruins and all of the monstrous foes therein, Lost Izalith feels like you are literally entering the pits of hell, and you’ve descended far lower in the world than you were ever meant to.

The Divine Beasts were supposed to be a huge aspect of BotW’s plot but they feel like afterthoughts without much identity. Hyrule City/Castle in the end was incredible for me because of its atmosphere, it perfectly captured the feeling of a once great castle that was ruined by the Calamity.

This is why Majora is my favorite Zelda game, it commits harder to its abstract atmosphere than any other Zelda game commits to its relatively simple atmosphere imo. I could go on but this post is lingering lol.
Majora´s Mask?I have a replica of that Mask
 
Question is now what will BotW 2 have.Back to dungeons or new Titans?

Also is Ganon again the Mainvillain or someone else
I think the " titan plot" is over. There will be dungeons but you can chose which one you want to do first. It will be a combination of traditional dungeons with shrines. I think that shrines are perfect for collecting hearts and stamina.
I hope we get a well written Ganon as an antagonist. I want more story and depth into his character.
 
I think the " titan plot" is over. There will be dungeons but you can chose which one you want to do first. It will be a combination of traditional dungeons with shrines. I think that shrines are perfect for collecting hearts and stamina.
I hope we get a well written Ganon as an antagonist. I want more story and depth into his character.
Since when was Ganon(Not Ganondorf) ever good?

He gets most of the time summoned as the final boss>you defeat him>Game is over
 
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