General & Others The myth of One Piece being a "masterpiece"/"peak fiction"
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HxH and Berserk are both series with better writing than OP in the majority (!) of their arcs.
A lot of that might have to do with the breaks those authors take, but analyzing the arcs in itself they are just more round (start - finish), thought through, better paced and include way less plot-conveniences/PIS moments (although one could argue that Oda just doesn't care much about the last point).
You also have to get away from the "but where is the plot going" question. One Piece has one major goal we are working towards (becoming PK and liberating the world) since the beginning.
Berserk and HxH don't work in that classic way. You have multiple characters with different problems and each arc has its own goals that oftentimes just form themselves at the start and then even change due to circumstances changing. In HxH Killua at one point even talks about this, that his goal is to find a goal/purpose he can work towards. Both Berserk and HxH are way more episodic by design/choice.
That doesn't mean that Oda doesn't have his own great arcs btw. Interestingly enough he always shines, when he has some kind of lore/buildup arc and doesn't try to write his usual "fight arc".
Jaya, Water 7 or Sabaody can compete with any shonen arc in terms of writing.
The problem are Oda's longer arcs like Alabasta, Fishman Island, Dressrosa, WCI and now Wano. They usually start nicely, but around the middle of the arc it seems like Oda always reaches the point where his pre-planned story stops and he has to freelance a lot. Then the second halfs of those arcs really drag and have questionable decisions and conclusions.
A lot of that might have to do with the breaks those authors take, but analyzing the arcs in itself they are just more round (start - finish), thought through, better paced and include way less plot-conveniences/PIS moments (although one could argue that Oda just doesn't care much about the last point).
You also have to get away from the "but where is the plot going" question. One Piece has one major goal we are working towards (becoming PK and liberating the world) since the beginning.
Berserk and HxH don't work in that classic way. You have multiple characters with different problems and each arc has its own goals that oftentimes just form themselves at the start and then even change due to circumstances changing. In HxH Killua at one point even talks about this, that his goal is to find a goal/purpose he can work towards. Both Berserk and HxH are way more episodic by design/choice.
That doesn't mean that Oda doesn't have his own great arcs btw. Interestingly enough he always shines, when he has some kind of lore/buildup arc and doesn't try to write his usual "fight arc".
Jaya, Water 7 or Sabaody can compete with any shonen arc in terms of writing.
The problem are Oda's longer arcs like Alabasta, Fishman Island, Dressrosa, WCI and now Wano. They usually start nicely, but around the middle of the arc it seems like Oda always reaches the point where his pre-planned story stops and he has to freelance a lot. Then the second halfs of those arcs really drag and have questionable decisions and conclusions.
Just to let you notice, you answered just to part of my message again, ignoring all the other points I was making. Should I just assume you don't know what to reply?
This said, Berserk is the story of Guts, Caska and Griffith.
Just like One Piece can be said it's just the story of Luffy becoming PK, Berserk is the story of Guts trying to keep Caska and gets his revenge. Since this reduction works for one piece, ignoring the themes outside of the protagonist and the many many parties involved, it works for Berserk as well.
If an author takes breaks to write better arcs, it's better for the opera, undeniable. But Berserk and HxH are both cases of laziness and general "i don't know what to do with the setup I made", which btw is a risk I foresee for One Piece as well. Same as Game of Thrones.
Berserk is three mangas. The first is a coming of age story (golden age), second is monster of the week, now it's some sort fantasy thing that I cannot even qualify.
Wano drags, arc 2 is downright abismal. But I liked onigashima, also read through it not on a weekly break.
This said, Berserk is the story of Guts, Caska and Griffith.
Just like One Piece can be said it's just the story of Luffy becoming PK, Berserk is the story of Guts trying to keep Caska and gets his revenge. Since this reduction works for one piece, ignoring the themes outside of the protagonist and the many many parties involved, it works for Berserk as well.
If an author takes breaks to write better arcs, it's better for the opera, undeniable. But Berserk and HxH are both cases of laziness and general "i don't know what to do with the setup I made", which btw is a risk I foresee for One Piece as well. Same as Game of Thrones.
Berserk is three mangas. The first is a coming of age story (golden age), second is monster of the week, now it's some sort fantasy thing that I cannot even qualify.
Wano drags, arc 2 is downright abismal. But I liked onigashima, also read through it not on a weekly break.
I like HxH more than OP but there's a reason why Togashi can only put out 10 chapters every 3 years. He's clearly in over his head and an intricate story like that isn't fit for the weekly shonen jump cycle. He'd be much better off putting HxH out in a monthly seinen magazine. Again, the fact that Oda has been consistently putting out like 3 chapters a month for over 20 years while maintaining a somewhat consistent quality albeit formulaic is simply incredible. Let's not kid ourselves; Hunter x Hunter will never finish.
As for Berserk: It was amazing and a masterpiece until after the eclipse and then Miura completely lost the plot. Everything after the eclipse up until recently before he died was basically a 20 year long side tangent with the story going nowhere. The art got better though so at least it was nice to look at. The consistent theme with the manga people hail as "the greatest" has been that the authors seem to be unable to finish them. Vagabond, Real, Hunter x Hunter, Berserk etc. I feel it's an inherent problem with the grinding aspect of the manga industry. They all just burn out completely and then either have to rush the ending turning the story into a complete dumpster fire or they just take indefinite hiatuses essentially never finishing it.
Very well thought through response, which I can dig.
Like I said: Looking at the arcs we got from all those series, I value the ones you also mentioned the most.
But you also have a point in saying that all those "masterpieces" (according to the more critical fans) have clear problems as well, but just in a different way. It's not about the arc quality itself, which is still great, it's about how to finish the entirety of the work in a satisfying way.
That is the plus-point of One Piece. I still stand by my point that it simply isn't nowhere near a masterpiece in storywriting (in my eyes), but it's decent enough and has a good chance to finish with an at least solid/satisfying ending. I just hope Oda steps up his game one last time, bc post-skip really hasn't been it for me so far.
Like I said: Looking at the arcs we got from all those series, I value the ones you also mentioned the most.
But you also have a point in saying that all those "masterpieces" (according to the more critical fans) have clear problems as well, but just in a different way. It's not about the arc quality itself, which is still great, it's about how to finish the entirety of the work in a satisfying way.
That is the plus-point of One Piece. I still stand by my point that it simply isn't nowhere near a masterpiece in storywriting (in my eyes), but it's decent enough and has a good chance to finish with an at least solid/satisfying ending. I just hope Oda steps up his game one last time, bc post-skip really hasn't been it for me so far.
I mean I would never claim that One Piece is a masterpiece in storytelling but I judge it by taking the immense restrictions and deadlines Oda works under into consideration. There are other aspects than the formulaic nature in One Piece that I dislike much more. Mainly
his unwillingness to kill characters and the constant fake out deaths (those have been particularly bad in Wano) and the lack of depth in characterization the main villains have. Personally though I thought Wano was one of the best OP arcs. The big moments in this arc can hold their own compared to the best in the series. I really liked Whole Cake and Zou as well. Dress Rosa was okayish (Doflamingo carried that arc tbh) and Punk Hazard+Fishman Island were rather bad. You had bad and mediocre arcs like that pre time skip as well though.
We need some stakes though. You simply can't build tension when the reader loses their ability to fear for important characters. You can only build up a villain so much when at the end we all know that nothing too bad will ever happen to any of the important characters on our side.
his unwillingness to kill characters and the constant fake out deaths (those have been particularly bad in Wano) and the lack of depth in characterization the main villains have. Personally though I thought Wano was one of the best OP arcs. The big moments in this arc can hold their own compared to the best in the series. I really liked Whole Cake and Zou as well. Dress Rosa was okayish (Doflamingo carried that arc tbh) and Punk Hazard+Fishman Island were rather bad. You had bad and mediocre arcs like that pre time skip as well though.
We need some stakes though. You simply can't build tension when the reader loses their ability to fear for important characters. You can only build up a villain so much when at the end we all know that nothing too bad will ever happen to any of the important characters on our side.
stop right there please
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OP may be generic and super repetitive right now but it lasted 20+ years like Conan for a reason
These manga have things which keep the industry running and the fans interested
OP has world building while Conan has suspense and thriller
OP has "world building" ? , all I can see is "fake hype". The plot is very inconsistent, only logical in the beginning and fail to expand beyond. The DF is only interesting at first but the logia fucked everything up and now we have a generic boring haki system. A lot of thing just being there to look hype and do nothing for over 1000 chapters.
And plz don't try to defend Conan, it's just a bunch of murder case Gosho read somewhere and draw a manga about it. Oh and there is a little BO plot, now suck dick harder.
It's not peak fiction, but I disagree it's generic. The overall storytelling is average, but the scope of the story is rare and resembles ancient epics. Not in quality, just pure structure. This means every arc plot can be generic, but there can be underlying qualities which still make the story very good across multiple arcs.
One Piece excels in three of those qualities: worldbuilding, character moments, and the sense of great collisions of power or the change of eras. The story's overall plot is carried by its worldbuilding. The Enies Lobby saga was carried by the character moments. And Blackbeard's ascent to power starting from Drum Island and ending at Marineford is the best stretch of the series because of the crazy dynamic shift in the world, also leading to innovative arcs such as Sabaody and Impel Down. None of these things are too common, especially combining epic narratives with great simple character moments is an unique and very rare trait.
The problem is when Oda tries to make conventional storylines and everything starts grinding to a halt. This steadily destroys every hidden advantage that the story has.
One Piece excels in three of those qualities: worldbuilding, character moments, and the sense of great collisions of power or the change of eras. The story's overall plot is carried by its worldbuilding. The Enies Lobby saga was carried by the character moments. And Blackbeard's ascent to power starting from Drum Island and ending at Marineford is the best stretch of the series because of the crazy dynamic shift in the world, also leading to innovative arcs such as Sabaody and Impel Down. None of these things are too common, especially combining epic narratives with great simple character moments is an unique and very rare trait.
The problem is when Oda tries to make conventional storylines and everything starts grinding to a halt. This steadily destroys every hidden advantage that the story has.
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Anyone can tell anything about one piece...for me it is best because I can relate and enjoy the story...I don't know how many times I have reread or rewatch anime or manga....to be frank, I have rewatched most of the series like Naruto, Gintama, Detective Conan, Shokugeki but One piece tops the list of my rewatch animes...recent animes or even so called other fiction not giving me the same feel and even urge to rewatch....I almost remember or recall everything in one piece...
That is all I need for me to call something an epic....
Modern shonen though good but not to the point of urge to rewatch I get like I have with one piece.....
That is all I need for me to call something an epic....
Modern shonen though good but not to the point of urge to rewatch I get like I have with one piece.....
lol you watched the anime not only once but several times? I feel bad for you lmao. The anime adaptation of One Piece if probably one of the worst anime of all time. I completely stopped giving a shit about it by the time of Dressrosa which probably was the most dragged out, worst animated piece of garbage I have ever had to watch. I felt insulted by the complete trash quality in that arc.
I don't know the exact reason why some people ignore Shit Piece's horrible flaws and pretend that it's better than any other fiction,but i know that madness is a part of human nature,so i assume that these people's madness leads to it.
But i'm not one of those people. I've had enough of Shit Piece's sloppy writing at the end of 2021,so i'ven taken a long break from the forum. Now that i'm back,i participated in a thread about manga recommendations among users,and they introduced me to three manga series that caught my interest. I've programmed to read them on a binge in a certain order,with Hunter X Hunter being the first i'm reading currently. My real-life responsibilities are slowing down the reading,but that's how life works.
Hunter X Hunter gets everything right that Shit Piece does wrong,like they said me. I'm rooting for Togashi to succeed at change the manga's publication format so that the series can go on.
These people obsessed with Shit Piece are living horribly inside a box. They criminally spread the idea that Shit Piece is the only good thing the manga industry has to offer. We should fight against this.
The reason Shit Piece should end as soon as possible isn't because we've been waiting for it for a long time,but because everyone will finally be free to engage in other fictions that are more worthwhile.
Futhermore,there are even western franchises that are more satisfying than Shit Piece. One example is Planet of the Apes's 2011 reboot.
@dirtyLarry @Warchief Sanji D Goat @Sir Yasheen @gz89 @ZenZu @Nidai_Kitetsu @Konstantis
@Peroroncino @ConquistadoR @Shiroyru @ShadyOjiro @Roo @SDfear @Guymieux @Cream filled donut7
@matt245 @SakazOuki @uyuu @zzShinichi @mly90 @lee33 @roronoa_fan @DarkWitch
@Vanlax @OGshine @Boiroy @Apollo @Necrohol
But i'm not one of those people. I've had enough of Shit Piece's sloppy writing at the end of 2021,so i'ven taken a long break from the forum. Now that i'm back,i participated in a thread about manga recommendations among users,and they introduced me to three manga series that caught my interest. I've programmed to read them on a binge in a certain order,with Hunter X Hunter being the first i'm reading currently. My real-life responsibilities are slowing down the reading,but that's how life works.
Hunter X Hunter gets everything right that Shit Piece does wrong,like they said me. I'm rooting for Togashi to succeed at change the manga's publication format so that the series can go on.
These people obsessed with Shit Piece are living horribly inside a box. They criminally spread the idea that Shit Piece is the only good thing the manga industry has to offer. We should fight against this.
The reason Shit Piece should end as soon as possible isn't because we've been waiting for it for a long time,but because everyone will finally be free to engage in other fictions that are more worthwhile.
Futhermore,there are even western franchises that are more satisfying than Shit Piece. One example is Planet of the Apes's 2011 reboot.
@dirtyLarry @Warchief Sanji D Goat @Sir Yasheen @gz89 @ZenZu @Nidai_Kitetsu @Konstantis
@Peroroncino @ConquistadoR @Shiroyru @ShadyOjiro @Roo @SDfear @Guymieux @Cream filled donut7
@matt245 @SakazOuki @uyuu @zzShinichi @mly90 @lee33 @roronoa_fan @DarkWitch
@Vanlax @OGshine @Boiroy @Apollo @Necrohol