Spoiler Unfiltered Kingdom Talks - Historical info & all that jazz (Beware)

[SakazOuki]

Man I really do not want to see another vs Zhao campaign.

Life works in mysterious ways, this was my opinion for the last 2 years, and now it’s the complete opposite
Fuck Han I want Tou to neg diff Rakukan and his mountain monkey yoko yoko, just so we get the destined rematch between Ousen and Riboku asap
Ousen back in full force in 3 years time ready to bring Zhao to its knees

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

Man I really do want to see another vs Zhao campaign.

Couldn’t agree more baby!!

Zhao is goated. When we’re in the middle of the Chu war I will still be longing for the days of the majestic and proud Zhao.

The state that Qin could never fall through honest battle. Lol

 

[MarineHQ]

Life works in mysterious ways, this was my opinion for the last 2 years, and now it’s the complete opposite
Fuck Han I want Tou to neg diff Rakukan and his mountain monkey yoko yoko, just so we get the destined rematch between Ousen and Riboku asap
Ousen back in full force in 3 years time ready to bring Zhao to its knees

Blud you posted the result yourself. Zhao successfully defended against another invasion yet again and that was I believe after Zhao was struck by an earthquake. The lord gave Lousen an assist and he still failed....another battle will definitely not help his portrayal I tell ya.
:risitavirus:

Also I don't buy the Raku'a Kan hype. I expect a legend like Tou to walk through him.

Couldn’t agree more baby!!

Zhao is goated. When we’re in the middle of the Chu war I will still be longing for the days of the majestic and proud Zhao.

The state that Qin could never fall through honest battle. Lol

I love Zhao but 500 chapters of only fighting one state ? Lmao. If that isn't an accurate display of what Zhao's resistance meant in the unification wars. I think it's safe to say at this point that Riboku’s portrayal as THE general is unbeatable, even Kouen has a lot to prove before he can sit next to the Goat. I also update my list and put Riboku in a tier of his own, seriously, no Ouki or Renpa or Hakuki.

What I do like about Hango is that we now know what happens when a martial monster dives head first into a Top Tier strategist with no martial beast at his side, they get utterly stomped and I expect Riboku to only perform better in the same scenario but lose nonetheless (Ryuudou formation etc)

This helps to not make strategists too OP.

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

I love Zhao but 500 chapters of only fighting one state ? Lmao. If that isn't an accurate display of what Zhao's resistance meant in the unification wars. I think it's safe to say at this point that Riboku’s portrayal as THE general is unbeatable, even Kouen has a lot to prove before he can sit next to the Goat. I also update my list and put Riboku in a tier of his own, seriously, no Ouki or Renpa or Hakuki.

Zhao really are the heroes. I am realizing that Riboku is something of a subverted final villain trope. He killed Shin’s idol, and is very much portrayed as an antagonist who Shin really wants revenge against,

But the past four years of Kingdom have subverted Riboku as a villain and instead solidified him as the tragic hero of Zhao.

Anyone who used to think Kingdom is Chinese propaganda has no argument after the Gian arc. Qin really are the bad guys, they are the aggressors. Kanki slaughtered 100k men of Zhao and would’ve slaughtered more if he would have survived. And Ei Sei didn’t even punish him.

Meanwhile the mighty heroes of Zhao were of such a level that Qin couldn’t defeat them in battle, instead corrupting the Zhao court to have Riboku tragically killed by the very state he spent his life protecting.

Zhao really are the heroes, Qin’s actions against them were wrong and villainous. I suspect that this is the beginning of Hara’s ultimate subversion where EOS Shin will be left questioning if he really fought for the right side and did the right things in the end. Especially when Sei goes batshit, Hara will really put Shin’s idealism to the test and the fall of Zhao is just the start of that test. Imagine how Shin will feel, wanting to surpass Riboku for close to two decades only for Riboku to be tragically killed by the state he only wanted to defend.

The fall of Zhao will truly be tragic.

What I do like about Hango is that we now know what happens when a martial monster dives head first into a Top Tier strategist with no martial beast at his side, they get utterly stomped and I expect Riboku to only perform better in the same scenario but lose nonetheless (Ryuudou formation etc)

As I said lol. Kingdom would’ve been dead to me if Ousen defeated Shibashou in this circumstance. Hara did the exact correct thing imo, even I didn’t predict Ousen suffering the defeat of a lifetime and losing his entire army. I heavily respect Hara for doing what needs to be done. This is so much more interesting to me than Qin winning this battle.

 

[Pirao]

I hope we have a short fictional campaign like Kokuyou before Han invasion. According to Shiji, Wei and Han gave land to Qin in 231AC, but this wouldn't make much sense in manga now that Qin just got their ass whooped by Zhao, so my guess is that Qin will get the land through battle.

Send the new gen to take it without any senior generals directing them, they need to start getting experience leading their own campaigns.

 

[SakazOuki]

Blud you posted the result yourself. Zhao successfully defended against another invasion yet again and that was I believe after Zhao was struck by an earthquake. The lord gave Lousen an assist and he still failed....another battle will definitely not help his portrayal I tell ya.
:risitavirus:

You don’t believe that, the next war will be a strategic masterclass on the level of Gyou
Qin will still push Zhao hard enough in this prolonged stalemate that Riboku will happily accept a truce
Kakukai being the valiant warrior that he is will see that as a sign of weakness

 

[Monet]

I only care now about tou .
it can't be he retired and we don't see much of him.

I hope we have a short fictional campaign like Kokuyou before Han invasion. According to Shiji, Wei and Han gave land to Qin in 231AC, but this wouldn't make much sense in manga now that Qin just got their ass whooped by Zhao, so my guess is that Qin will get the land through battle.

Send the new gen to take it without any senior generals directing them, they need to start getting experience leading their own campaigns.

so yeah it would be ok if we got 2 arcs fillers before tou take han but both of them tou is the leader.

 

[SakazOuki]

When you think about it, if the Qin armies under the leadership of Wang Jian didn’t end up unifying the land, and say were obliterated halfway through their progress, then Li Mu wouldn’t have been as famous and legendary as he was

 

[Monet]

When you think about it, if the Qin armies under the leadership of Wang Jian didn’t end up unifying the land, and say were obliterated halfway through their progress, then Li Mu wouldn’t have been as famous and legendary as he was

Also if qin didn't unify China ,
then this period would've not stand out among other periods as well.
[automerge]1718747996[/automerge]
anyone know the 3 things shk about to introduce.
or they are not mentioned in history
[automerge]1720588487[/automerge]
......

we are now in year 231 with chapter 803

so it seems no battle or small skirmish gonna happen now 🤔
it will be the next year when qin conquer han ?!


or will hara make it better and give us 2 arcs in han the first is filler and the second is 230

Current
Year 16, 231BC
– September, Qin sent soldiers and Tou to accept Nan An(南安) from Han.
– Wei offered land to Qin. Qin set up Li county(丽邑).
Future
Year 17, 230BC
– Tou attacked Han, capturing King An of Han and annexed all the lands of Han.

 

[TheKnightOfTheSea]

@God Buggy @Rumble how would you feel/do you think there's any chance that

Spoiler: Chu spoilers

Kouyoku, Hakurei and maybe Karin actually outlast Kouen?

And they end up being SHK's "main" subordinates for the final war.

 

[Rumble]

@God Buggy @Rumble how would you feel/do you think there's any chance that

Spoiler: Chu spoilers

Kouyoku, Hakurei and maybe Karin actually outlast Kouen?

And they end up being SHK's "main" subordinates for the final war.

That's more or less been my assumption for a minute.

 

[TheKnightOfTheSea]

That's more or less been my assumption for a minute.

in what order do you think the big players of Chu are being defeated/killed? Obviously we haven't met all of them

Spoiler: this is what I've thought for a few years

At some point, possibly during Ouhon's Chu campaign, Man'U and the Juuko guys would be killed. They might also die against Shin and Kyoukai during the initial stages of Shin's failed invasion.

I thought at some point, Hara will have a fictional campaign that involves Kouyoku and Hakurei dying. That way, Kouen will have personal beef with Shin and Qin. It would also show that Chu isn't in the best spot, losing it's two most talented young men.

Then i think we'd have Shin's loss against SHK and Kouen

Then the battle of Chu's capital. Chu loses, and Karin and Renpa(if Karin survives the change in monarchs and Renpa lives this long die)

and then in the final war Shouheikun and Kouen die.

how do you see things going?

 

[Pirao]

in what order do you think the big players of Chu are being defeated/killed? Obviously we haven't met all of them

Spoiler: this is what I've thought for a few years

At some point, possibly during Ouhon's Chu campaign, Man'U and the Juuko guys would be killed. They might also die against Shin and Kyoukai during the initial stages of Shin's failed invasion.

I thought at some point, Hara will have a fictional campaign that involves Kouyoku and Hakurei dying. That way, Kouen will have personal beef with Shin and Qin. It would also show that Chu isn't in the best spot, losing it's two most talented young men.

Then i think we'd have Shin's loss against SHK and Kouen

Then the battle of Chu's capital. Chu loses, and Karin and Renpa(if Karin survives the change in monarchs and Renpa lives this long die)

and then in the final war Shouheikun and Kouen die.

how do you see things going?

Karin will be the first to die (not counting Juuko guys).

 

[God Buggy]

in what order do you think the big players of Chu are being defeated/killed? Obviously we haven't met all of them

Spoiler: this is what I've thought for a few years

At some point, possibly during Ouhon's Chu campaign, Man'U and the Juuko guys would be killed. They might also die against Shin and Kyoukai during the initial stages of Shin's failed invasion.

I thought at some point, Hara will have a fictional campaign that involves Kouyoku and Hakurei dying. That way, Kouen will have personal beef with Shin and Qin. It would also show that Chu isn't in the best spot, losing it's two most talented young men.

Then i think we'd have Shin's loss against SHK and Kouen

Then the battle of Chu's capital. Chu loses, and Karin and Renpa(if Karin survives the change in monarchs and Renpa lives this long die)

and then in the final war Shouheikun and Kouen die.

how do you see things going?

Spoiler

Renpa is not dying as part of the "last" group. Shin will kill him and surpass him but Shin's main enemy in Chu is Kouen.

I could see Karin being defeated at the same time of Kouen and Shouheikun.

 

[Rumble]

in what order do you think the big players of Chu are being defeated/killed? Obviously we haven't met all of them

Spoiler: this is what I've thought for a few years

At some point, possibly during Ouhon's Chu campaign, Man'U and the Juuko guys would be killed. They might also die against Shin and Kyoukai during the initial stages of Shin's failed invasion.

I thought at some point, Hara will have a fictional campaign that involves Kouyoku and Hakurei dying. That way, Kouen will have personal beef with Shin and Qin. It would also show that Chu isn't in the best spot, losing it's two most talented young men.

Then i think we'd have Shin's loss against SHK and Kouen

Then the battle of Chu's capital. Chu loses, and Karin and Renpa(if Karin survives the change in monarchs and Renpa lives this long die)

and then in the final war Shouheikun and Kouen die.

how do you see things going?

I haven't really given it much thought.

Spoiler

I've always just assumed defeating and killing Kou En in one battle would be Ou Sen's in-verse crowning achievement as a general.

As of now I half suspect Hara will smush several of Chu's final battles into one final showdown, but in terms of order of death, I've long gone by the assumption Kou En would die first, and then it would be Ka Rin, SHK, Kou Yoku and Haku Rei, and whoever remained of the Juuko Generals and Kou En's retinue versus Ou Sen (VS Ka Rin - perhaps where Ou Hon slays Kou Yoku), Mou Bu (VS SHK - may include Mou Ten), Shin on the rebound for vengeance (for his dead lieutenants) and redemption, and whoever else may be available/alive between Tou, YTW, etc.

I could see Ka Rin dying, fleeing, surrending and even joining Ou Sen's service - anything, but I suspect Kou Yoku will buy it in one of Chu's final battles whether Ka Rin dies or not. I dunno about everybody else, and I don't expect much regarding Ren Pa, but I could see Man'U/the Juuko Generals dying when Ou Sen and Mou Bu initiate their invasion that will end with Kou En and some or all of his retinue dead, followed by the potential death of both Kou Yoku and Haku Rei and the finally SHK.

I dunno, like I said, I haven't put much thought into it.

 

[PlasmaSnake]

I hope there's some surrenders and side switchings with Zhao and Chu's Generals and it isn't just "kill every commander until there's none left"

 

[TheKnightOfTheSea]

Karin will be the first to die (not counting Juuko guys).

it's possible that her primary role is to be the first Chu baddy. Then after her death, Kouen will take over. Seems like Kouen and Karin have a prestablished relationship so her dying could be a motivator for him.

Spoiler

Renpa is not dying as part of the "last" group. Shin will kill him and surpass him but Shin's main enemy in Chu is Kouen.

I could see Karin being defeated at the same time of Kouen and Shouheikun.

Spoiler

yeah I agree

I see Renpa dying during the conquest of the Chu capital, which I believe is the second to last major Chu battle. He also died in the Chu capital historically

then I think Kouen and Shouheikun die in the next war.

I haven't really given it much thought.

Spoiler

I've always just assumed defeating and killing Kou En in one battle would be Ou Sen's in-verse crowning achievement as a general.

As of now I half suspect Hara will smush several of Chu's final battles into one final showdown, but in terms of order of death, I've long gone by the assumption Kou En would die first, and then it would be Ka Rin, SHK, Kou Yoku and Haku Rei, and whoever remained of the Juuko Generals and Kou En's retinue versus Ou Sen (VS Ka Rin - perhaps where Ou Hon slays Kou Yoku), Mou Bu (VS SHK - may include Mou Ten), Shin on the rebound for vengeance (for his dead lieutenants) and redemption, and whoever else may be available/alive between Tou, YTW, etc.

I could see Ka Rin dying, fleeing, surrending and even joining Ou Sen's service - anything, but I suspect Kou Yoku will buy it in one of Chu's final battles whether Ka Rin dies or not. I dunno about everybody else, and I don't expect much regarding Ren Pa, but I could see Man'U/the Juuko Generals dying when Ou Sen and Mou Bu initiate their invasion that will end with Kou En and some or all of his retinue dead, followed by the potential death of both Kou Yoku and Haku Rei and the finally SHK.

I dunno, like I said, I haven't put much thought into it.

Spoiler

I was always of the opinion that killing Kouen would be Shin's greatest achievement, and ultimately the one that marks him as one of the greatest of the era.

It depends on how Shin's defeat goes. If the main blame is attributed to SHK instead of Kouen, we might not get a Shin getting vengeance storyline like many people think.

Even if he is surpassed, Chu's current number one general should at least outlast Karin imo.

If Rinbukun's death is supposed to parallel Ouki/Duke Hyou's death for Yoku and Hakurei, maybe Karin's death could parallel Kanki's death for Shin?

 

[Bullet]

I think it makes more sense for Karin to die first but how could the prime minister go to battle first before the actual military commanders?
Karin should be sending generals to battle while staying in the capital and managing the court realistically.

 

[MarineHQ]

I think it makes more sense for Karin to die first but how could the prime minister go to battle first before the actual military commanders?
Karin should be sending generals to battle while staying in the capital and managing the court realistically.

Doesn't Qin take the capital and then the remains of Chu move to the east and establish the new kingdom there ?

First campaign: Shin and Mouten take several cities, kill Yoku and the archer kid, get wrecked by Kouen

Second campaign: Karin still in charge. Loses to Ousen and dies. Kouen and SHK move to the east. SHK becomes King.

Third campaign: Ousen beats Kouen and and Moubu beats SHK.

The HSU main oponnent in the 2nd or 3rd campaign will be the Renpa army

 

[God Buggy]

@TheKnightOfTheSea

Spoiler

I think Kouen might be sort of a "co-shared" enemy for Ousen and Shin.

Historically speaking, Ousen was that guy in Chu. Manga wise I can see Ousen and Shin getting even equal credit for Chu's fall. Or Ousen still edges him out and then Shin becomes the GOAT in Qi.

In any case I think they will be the two most impressive.

Doesn't Qin take the capital and then the remains of Chu move to the east and establish the new kingdom there ?

First campaign: Shin and Mouten take several cities, kill Yoku and the archer kid, get wrecked by Kouen

Second campaign: Karin still in charge. Loses to Ousen and dies. Kouen and SHK move to the east. SHK becomes King.

Third campaign: Ousen beats Kouen and and Moubu beats SHK.

The HSU main oponnent in the 2nd or 3rd campaign will be the Renpa army

Karin is the FV shut up