General & Others We have to stop saying that Kid and Law are Luffy's Shiki and Whitebeard
- Thread starter Mugiwara56
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Garp and Sengoku can individually give Roger a challenging fight by Roger's own admission, and the fact that these two felt the need to team up restrain Shiki and still had to half destory MF to put him down proves he's not that far off Roger. Roger and WB were undoubtedly stronger than their peers but they're not so far above that the others can't compete.
Lemme make one thing clear and I have said time and time again
There is only one character I care about in One Piece and that's Zoro and I only care about anything associated with Zoro. Nothing else in One Piece means dog shit to me.
Just don't downplay Zoro and say retarded mortally corrupt autistic dog shit like "Law = Zoro" "Kidd > Zoro" "Yamato > Zoro" "Zoro needs a power up to beat King" "Chapter 1000 Luffy > Zoro" and you won't hear shit from me.
There is only one character I care about in One Piece and that's Zoro and I only care about anything associated with Zoro. Nothing else in One Piece means dog shit to me.
Just don't downplay Zoro and say retarded mortally corrupt autistic dog shit like "Law = Zoro" "Kidd > Zoro" "Yamato > Zoro" "Zoro needs a power up to beat King" "Chapter 1000 Luffy > Zoro" and you won't hear shit from me.
even if merely fighting her is all they do, that's better than anything doffy has done in his entire career.
The perfect parallel is shiki. He was a great pirate, probably an emperor in his time, he was a rival of Roger's. Yet he was ultimately a minor rival in comparison to Whitebeard and Xebec. Furthermore, its very likely he was significantly weaker than roger due to the major possibility that Rayleigh or Scopper beat him in God valley.
The perfect parallel is shiki. He was a great pirate, probably an emperor in his time, he was a rival of Roger's. Yet he was ultimately a minor rival in comparison to Whitebeard and Xebec. Furthermore, its very likely he was significantly weaker than roger due to the major possibility that Rayleigh or Scopper beat him in God valley.
That doesn't mean much. Shiki's powers in of themselves are strong enough to destroy marienford, which is why Garp and Sengoku have no reason not to 2v1 him, even if they can individually win in 1v1s.
Anyways, relatively speaking, Kid isn't portrayed as that far off from Luffy as well. Obviously Luffy stomps in a 1v1, but he is much closer to Luffy than every supernova bar Law and Zoro.
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Anyways, relatively speaking, Kid isn't portrayed as that far off from Luffy as well. Obviously Luffy stomps in a 1v1, but he is much closer to Luffy than every supernova bar Law and Zoro.
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What do you mean by it doesn't mean much? Shiki's literally the only guy in the series who had a full-fledged 2-on-one with two top-tiers in their prime. I am not saying Garp and Sengoku can't handle him individually. It's about how difficult it was for two top-tiers to put him down. Even Roger and WB are getting ragdolled if they're to face this team. So once again, Shiki's weaker than Roger but he's not so far below him that he can't compete with him or WB.
Sure, Kid is way close to Luffy than non-rooftop Supernova but he is still leagues below Luffy period. He's more comparable to WCI Luffy than he is to current Luffy.
What do you mean by it doesn't mean much? Shiki's literally the only guy in the series who had a full-fledged 2-on-one with two top-tiers in their prime. I am not saying Garp and Sengoku can't handle him individually. It's about how difficult it was for two top-tiers to put him down. Even Roger and WB are getting ragdolled if they're to face this team. So once again, Shiki's weaker than Roger but he's not so far below him that he can't compete with him or WB.
Sure, Kid is way close to Luffy than non-rooftop Supernova but he is still leagues below Luffy period. He's more comparable to WCI Luffy than he is to current Luffy.
How does younger shiki losing at God Valley means Roger was much stronger?
You do realise Only Xebec, Ray, Garp and Roger were at Prime 38 years ago right?
Roger couldn't beat Shiki, in fact he was the one losing that battle until a miraculous Storm saved him.
"Much stronger" Roger with Ray and scopper couldn't beat bunch of fodder fleets + Shiki
You do realise Only Xebec, Ray, Garp and Roger were at Prime 38 years ago right?
Roger couldn't beat Shiki, in fact he was the one losing that battle until a miraculous Storm saved him.
"Much stronger" Roger with Ray and scopper couldn't beat bunch of fodder fleets + Shiki
Do you honestly believe that the character who was so insignificant that Oda had him defeated in a film by pre-skip Luffy, was actually on par with roger?
The man didn't even show haki. And I get the film was non-canon but still. Shiki's biggest achievement is losing in a 2v1 against garp and sengoku. Jack did the same thing lmao. Shiki has no legacy, literally nothing to his name bar the fact that he escaped impel down, rivaled roger, and was a member of the rocks pirates.
Even in the rocks pirates, Oda still isn't highlighting shiki.
The man didn't even show haki. And I get the film was non-canon but still. Shiki's biggest achievement is losing in a 2v1 against garp and sengoku. Jack did the same thing lmao. Shiki has no legacy, literally nothing to his name bar the fact that he escaped impel down, rivaled roger, and was a member of the rocks pirates.
Even in the rocks pirates, Oda still isn't highlighting shiki.
The Yonko were barely mentioned before MF. That doesn't mean they were irrelevant back then. Shiki may not be an important character but that's no reason to make him weak or to consider him irrelevant. The dude is only properly featured in one canon chapter and he's got like 3 major hype movements in it.
This guy deserves to be Roger's rival more than anyone else in the series.
- One, he almost wiped out Roger's crew.
- Two, Attacked freaking MF all by himself and slaughtered half of their men, and then went on to fight Garp and Sengoku, the two men who led the marines from frontlines in Roger's era, and only lost after brining half of MF to ruines.
- Three, the first ever escape from ID.
it doesn't portray superior strength either, is what I am trying to say.
Oh roger is pk? How did he become pk? Oh right stealing and begging...
And roger himself admitted garp cornered him multiple times and they almost nearly killed each other, where was the demon there? Garp = roger is not too far fetched either.
Ofc shiki hyped it as wb's era because roger surpassed them in piracy and was the biggest name, not because roger > wb in strength. Wb also achieved his dream as well, just like roger.
You are free to assume roger is stronger, but "clearly" is not the word I'd use when there is no evidence. Whilst wb being stronger is possible because he was the wsm and world's strongest pirate during roger's era.
Oh roger is pk? How did he become pk? Oh right stealing and begging...
And roger himself admitted garp cornered him multiple times and they almost nearly killed each other, where was the demon there? Garp = roger is not too far fetched either.
Ofc shiki hyped it as wb's era because roger surpassed them in piracy and was the biggest name, not because roger > wb in strength. Wb also achieved his dream as well, just like roger.
You are free to assume roger is stronger, but "clearly" is not the word I'd use when there is no evidence. Whilst wb being stronger is possible because he was the wsm and world's strongest pirate during roger's era.
Kid never challenged Luffy. That's the problem. Neither Law. Kid is a bitch since Sabaody when he was terrified about Luffy then he changed his mind about people who keep saying that will be Pirate King.
BM and Kaido are literally opposing Luffy's dream. All navy + WG too. Like it has been said since beginning almost all world is against Luffy.
Roger kind of conquered the World and made his family for selfish reasons.
But you are right they didn't shared the same dreams.
Well I also wouldn't consider Shiki as a rival since he didn't impressed me with his portrayal and feats. Although I have high hopes for him if he comes back(which should have happened before timeskip).
BM and Kaido are literally opposing Luffy's dream. All navy + WG too. Like it has been said since beginning almost all world is against Luffy.
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Roger kind of conquered the World and made his family for selfish reasons.
But you are right they didn't shared the same dreams.
Well I also wouldn't consider Shiki as a rival since he didn't impressed me with his portrayal and feats. Although I have high hopes for him if he comes back(which should have happened before timeskip).
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