WG Support Thread
- Thread starter SmokedOut
- Start date
You sure that's not just -your- therapist? The entire profession is not a monolith. I would say, however, that the entire profession does care about money though. Something I didn't appreciate when I was incredibly mentally ill is that dealing with people like us can be taxing, stressful, and not very enjoyable, especially when we have episodes. The complex needs of the mentally ill wear many people down, and very few people would engage in what is effectively years-long treatment without the prospect of reward. Ergo, it is no surprise they 'want money'. Yet that does not mean they do not care about their patients either.
However, that is not to say your personal psychiatrist/therapist is doing the right thing. I cannot possibly know that, I am both not a mental health professional, nor you. However, your entire post is making a whole lot of assumptions about the intent of therapists. As someone who interacted with a few mental health professionals, I cannot say I share the same experience.
Though I would say always be wary of individuals whose vested interest lies in you being deficient in some way. For example, a charity only exists and receives funding so long as an issue continues to exist, which is why I doubt the higher-ups would be happy if the issues disappeared. But at the same time, don't treat every such institution or individual as if they follow the mould.
Good luck to you.
However, that is not to say your personal psychiatrist/therapist is doing the right thing. I cannot possibly know that, I am both not a mental health professional, nor you. However, your entire post is making a whole lot of assumptions about the intent of therapists. As someone who interacted with a few mental health professionals, I cannot say I share the same experience.
Though I would say always be wary of individuals whose vested interest lies in you being deficient in some way. For example, a charity only exists and receives funding so long as an issue continues to exist, which is why I doubt the higher-ups would be happy if the issues disappeared. But at the same time, don't treat every such institution or individual as if they follow the mould.
Good luck to you.
I am not an expert in this, so I cannot judge. Would just warn you to not believe everything you read.
Bro, my levels of violence are off the chart.
Talk therapy is mostly bogus. You're effectively just paying for someone to listen to you. Ironically, proper community and friends can do a better job at that.
Bro, my levels of violence are off the chart.
Talk therapy is mostly bogus. You're effectively just paying for someone to listen to you. Ironically, proper community and friends can do a better job at that.
They deliberately go out of their way not to treat people because they see it as too risky, their goal is to do containment strategies, and hope I heal over years, or that I don't commit suicide
Like Logiko said, it's about making you function, NOT healing
The science does show how you heal, they just see it as risky and don't want responsability for it
Personally, I am not mentally traumatised
The problem is that my nervous system is in freeze, and to get it out of that, you need to prove to it that I'm safe
It's basically playing dead
What therapists want is to do grounding and focus on small incremental improvements over years
What the science shows to do is to make a life where my nervous system receives signals all day every day that I'm safe, and it will heal quickly, especially because freeze is EXTREMELY expensive for it to maintain
It does not want to be in freeze, it just thinks I'll die if it doesn't stay in freeze
The reason therapists don't want to focus on telling me to make that life, and want to focus on incredibly small improvements ( 5 minutes of grounding, a few seconds of feeling safe, etc ), is because theoretically if my nervous system gets overwhelmed, it can crash and get into an even deeper freeze, and they do not want responsability
However, in the past, I was doing:
Extreme overtraining
Building up massive communities
Succeeding in academic things
Finding God
Living in an enviroment where my body and mind were under extreme stress by default of just existing, because I had been abused there before and the body recognises that
__________
All at the same time, every day, for years
So I know for a fact my nervous system can handle whatever I throw at it, especially since what I'm going to do is 1000 times less stressful on the body than what I was doing before ( moved out, stopped overtraining and having a normal training schedule, etc )
In fact, I was unknowingly doing the things that heal my nervous system, the only reason it didn't get healed is because the enviroment massively reinforced the freeze, and as proof of that, I didn't even get into a freeze state until I stopped doing those things, then the freeze started
The problem is that my nervous system is in freeze, and to get it out of that, you need to prove to it that I'm safe
It's basically playing dead
What therapists want is to do grounding and focus on small incremental improvements over years
What the science shows to do is to make a life where my nervous system receives signals all day every day that I'm safe, and it will heal quickly, especially because freeze is EXTREMELY expensive for it to maintain
It does not want to be in freeze, it just thinks I'll die if it doesn't stay in freeze
The reason therapists don't want to focus on telling me to make that life, and want to focus on incredibly small improvements ( 5 minutes of grounding, a few seconds of feeling safe, etc ), is because theoretically if my nervous system gets overwhelmed, it can crash and get into an even deeper freeze, and they do not want responsability
However, in the past, I was doing:
Extreme overtraining
Building up massive communities
Succeeding in academic things
Finding God
Living in an enviroment where my body and mind were under extreme stress by default of just existing, because I had been abused there before and the body recognises that
__________
All at the same time, every day, for years
So I know for a fact my nervous system can handle whatever I throw at it, especially since what I'm going to do is 1000 times less stressful on the body than what I was doing before ( moved out, stopped overtraining and having a normal training schedule, etc )
In fact, I was unknowingly doing the things that heal my nervous system, the only reason it didn't get healed is because the enviroment massively reinforced the freeze, and as proof of that, I didn't even get into a freeze state until I stopped doing those things, then the freeze started
I mean, how do you call people going after my mental health?
Sadly the issue is systemic.
I agree with Okama, not all people in a oppressive institution. In fact I too had a good experience with my psychiatrist.
YET
It doesn't meant that they didn't put me in danger. They were caring about me BUT their formation was the one of an institution that wanted me back on the production line even tho I was not able to move. So they pressed medication on me as any psychiatrist did.
The problem is the individualization of mental health and the concept of "mental health" itself. I was poor at the time (in a more difficult situation than than now)(I know I'm again telling my story, but it is important to understand).. What I needed was not pills, it was time, and money to be able to recenter, work on myself, make the steps I needed etc. This was not possible with what I had. So I quit my psychiatrist who were actually starting to put me in danger with medication and I tried to plee my case as an disabled man.
This gave me the opportunity to have more financial help. Which is now helping me to get better, do the step I need with the time I need to get myself out of my condition.
This is what I'm trying to explain : Mental health is a status within the domination systems of sanism and ableism.
People do have some mental difficulties, it's real, BUT the way society reply to that is by individualizing the problem (making it a you problem) instead of trying to understand the systemic causes. We all have issues with our "mental health" but these issue are most often the result of trauma, poverty, disability. Things that are systemic, things that comes from the exterior, rarily problem coming from the inside or the genetic (even if it can happen), even things like Skyzophrenia or dissociations are result of these kind of trauma. Psychiatry and psychology are basically an institution that repeats the capitalist affirmation ("you are responsible of your own mindset"). This political base creates a situation where this "doctors" are actually INTERPRETING mental health problem based on problematic conclusions that doesn't take any systems into account (don't get me started on the DSM-5). This individualization will push psychiatrists to justify the violences through the medication or the internalization of people based on their material interests (as health professional within capitalism) to put everyone back on the production line even when they will not understand fully the symtoms.
For example, I stayed years with my psychiatrist. A the end and the moment where I decided that it was too much a risk for my health to be medicated like they were planning to, they STILL HADN'T understood fully what I had and how to treat it. They tried everything, they put me on slipping pills everyday, I had pill that made me feel numb, completely deconnected from reality, I had antipsychotics, I had various kind of antidepressant, pills that made me vomit, pills that made me lose all pleasure, pills that made me tremble everyday. To a point where the next treatment I would have to take was shots of giga antipsychotics with syringe every week. (just so you know, antipsychotics can destroy your brain as a side effects).
Yes, they were nice, very thoughtfull, but they were the gardian of hell. Simply because they only had one interest : HEAL ME for me to be able to work again.
But how do you heal something that is created by the stresses of Traumas and precarity?
Well, when you are a liberal in a capitalist society, you can't. Because you can't see this things, they do not register in the balance. I had to myself find a solution to get better. It's not perfect, but it's getting there.
What activists want:
0 - Destroy this institution
1 - Strip away the power of this institution to give it back to the activists.
2 - Destroy the pathologizing language created by psychology and psychiatry (we do not have "psychosis", or "ptsd" ot "skyzophrenia" or what else, our bodies are simply responding exactly how they should to things that are happening or happened to them and if we want to fight these problems, we need to fight the systems (of domination) that create them. The term "Mental health" (observe that I'm always using the quotes) must disappear from our language.
3 - Organize the collectivization of medication so that we can uses them collectively in function of our collective needs.
4 - Take down the systems of domination that are creating the conditions for our madness (this is the recuperated word used by activist)
5 - And make people realize that being "mad" is a STATUS within a class system of sanism. Not something we are, but something that psychiatry puts on us (hance why we use that word to take it back).
If you look around, you might see this flag popping up in the next few years:
This is the "mad pride" flag. The one used by all people who have "mental condition" and therefore those who our civilization consider as "crazy"
Like I told you, we are "mad", not stupid. And this flag is the one used by antipsychiatry.
For the moment, it is mostly a western and french movement, but it will grow.
----------
Psychiatry is an oppressive institution, BUT that doesn't mean that we can't use it at our advantage. In fact, some of their medications are still usefull and some of their prescription too (I was saved partly by antidepressors for ex) but they need to be used with a SYSTEMIC approach, with the knowledge that what we feel (Okama, Blax, me & others here) are the result of systems of dominations. (big systems that will hurt people)
Society will dehumanize MAD people, pressure them into thinking that we are our own problems, make us believe that we can simply "work it up harder", individualize our sufferings and if we do not take part in the capitalist framework.... We will be considered as parasites
BUT
We can fight back and be smarter.
"What I needed was not pills, it was time, and money to be able to recenter, work on myself, make the steps I needed etc."
"even things like Skyzophrenia or dissociations are result of these kind of trauma. "
"Yes, they were nice, very thoughtfull, but they were the gardian of hell. "
Exactly bro, these bums would rather have me never heal, put on drugs, or commit suicide, than risk "overtaxing my nervous system" by telling me that building a life ( with my own efforts btw, not asking for money, money can not make that life anyway ) that's nice and gives me safety signals in all areas of life, cures my freeze
"we do not have "psychosis", or "ptsd" ot "skyzophrenia" or what else, our bodies are simply responding exactly how they should to things that are happening or happened to them"
I literally did not have cptsd after a decade and a half of abuse, WHILE I was living a life that signaled to my nervous system agency, safety, capability, and social connection
My cptsd started YEARS after the abuse stopped, and there is a perfect explanation for it:
The subconcious remembers the enviroment where you were abused as a threat, I was living there, so my body was receiving constant danger signals, and when I stopped feeding it safety signals through my actions, the danger signals flooded it and it went into freeze to protect itself
I literally did not have cptsd after a decade and a half of abuse, WHILE I was living a life that signaled to my nervous system agency, safety, capability, and social connection
My cptsd started YEARS after the abuse stopped, and there is a perfect explanation for it:
The subconcious remembers the enviroment where you were abused as a threat, I was living there, so my body was receiving constant danger signals, and when I stopped feeding it safety signals through my actions, the danger signals flooded it and it went into freeze to protect itself
I apologise for the bluntness, but this is patently false. Psychosis and schizophrenia have significant genetic components that underpin the condition. PTSD, not so much.
Conditions are just groupings to explain clusters of symptoms that you are experiencing. In essence, they're technically not 'real', but an individual who is experiencing said grouping does have what psychosis or schizophrenia is designed to explain. In addition, regardless if you are simply responding to extraneous conditions, your actions/reactions denote a set of behaviour that is considered harmful or dangerous to yourself, society, or both.
An alternate hypothesis is that you only had the mental bandwidth to recognise your patterns of behaviour once you were comfortably outside of your dangerous environment. I know many people who have suffered from mental illness, myself included, who believed their symptoms started way later than they did. Just food for thought.
Conditions are just groupings to explain clusters of symptoms that you are experiencing. In essence, they're technically not 'real', but an individual who is experiencing said grouping does have what psychosis or schizophrenia is designed to explain. In addition, regardless if you are simply responding to extraneous conditions, your actions/reactions denote a set of behaviour that is considered harmful or dangerous to yourself, society, or both.
An alternate hypothesis is that you only had the mental bandwidth to recognise your patterns of behaviour once you were comfortably outside of your dangerous environment. I know many people who have suffered from mental illness, myself included, who believed their symptoms started way later than they did. Just food for thought.
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I mean, how do you call people going after my mental health?
Sadly the issue is systemic.
I agree with Okama, not all people in a oppressive institution. In fact I too had a good experience with my psychiatrist.
YET
It doesn't meant that they didn't put me in danger. They were caring about me BUT their formation was the one of an institution that wanted me back on the production line even tho I was not able to move. So they pressed medication on me as any psychiatrist did.
The problem is the individualization of mental health and the concept of "mental health" itself. I was poor at the time (in a more difficult situation than than now)(I know I'm again telling my story, but it is important to understand).. What I needed was not pills, it was time, and money to be able to recenter, work on myself, make the steps I needed etc. This was not possible with what I had. So I quit my psychiatrist who were actually starting to put me in danger with medication and I tried to plee my case as an disabled man.
This gave me the opportunity to have more financial help. Which is now helping me to get better, do the step I need with the time I need to get myself out of my condition.
This is what I'm trying to explain : Mental health is a status within the domination systems of sanism and ableism.
People do have some mental difficulties, it's real, BUT the way society reply to that is by individualizing the problem (making it a you problem) instead of trying to understand the systemic causes. We all have issues with our "mental health" but these issue are most often the result of trauma, poverty, disability. Things that are systemic, things that comes from the exterior, rarily problem coming from the inside or the genetic (even if it can happen), even things like Skyzophrenia or dissociations are result of these kind of trauma. Psychiatry and psychology are basically an institution that repeats the capitalist affirmation ("you are responsible of your own mindset"). This political base creates a situation where this "doctors" are actually INTERPRETING mental health problem based on problematic conclusions that doesn't take any systems into account (don't get me started on the DSM-5). This individualization will push psychiatrists to justify the violences through the medication or the internalization of people based on their material interests (as health professional within capitalism) to put everyone back on the production line even when they will not understand fully the symtoms.
For example, I stayed years with my psychiatrist. A the end and the moment where I decided that it was too much a risk for my health to be medicated like they were planning to, they STILL HADN'T understood fully what I had and how to treat it. They tried everything, they put me on slipping pills everyday, I had pill that made me feel numb, completely deconnected from reality, I had antipsychotics, I had various kind of antidepressant, pills that made me vomit, pills that made me lose all pleasure, pills that made me tremble everyday. To a point where the next treatment I would have to take was shots of giga antipsychotics with syringe every week. (just so you know, antipsychotics can destroy your brain as a side effects).
Yes, they were nice, very thoughtfull, but they were the gardian of hell. Simply because they only had one interest : HEAL ME for me to be able to work again.
But how do you heal something that is created by the stresses of Traumas and precarity?
Well, when you are a liberal in a capitalist society, you can't. Because you can't see this things, they do not register in the balance. I had to myself find a solution to get better. It's not perfect, but it's getting there.
What activists want:
0 - Destroy this institution
1 - Strip away the power of this institution to give it back to the activists.
2 - Destroy the pathologizing language created by psychology and psychiatry (we do not have "psychosis", or "ptsd" ot "skyzophrenia" or what else, our bodies are simply responding exactly how they should to things that are happening or happened to them and if we want to fight these problems, we need to fight the systems (of domination) that create them. The term "Mental health" (observe that I'm always using the quotes) must disappear from our language.
3 - Organize the collectivization of medication so that we can uses them collectively in function of our collective needs.
4 - Take down the systems of domination that are creating the conditions for our madness (this is the recuperated word used by activist)
5 - And make people realize that being "mad" is a STATUS within a class system of sanism. Not something we are, but something that psychiatry puts on us (hance why we use that word to take it back).
If you look around, you might see this flag popping up in the next few years:
This is the "mad pride" flag. The one used by all people who have "mental condition" and therefore those who our civilization consider as "crazy"
Like I told you, we are "mad", not stupid. And this flag is the one used by antipsychiatry.
For the moment, it is mostly a western and french movement, but it will grow.
----------
Psychiatry is an oppressive institution, BUT that doesn't mean that we can't use it at our advantage. In fact, some of their medications are still usefull and some of their prescription too (I was saved partly by antidepressors for ex) but they need to be used with a SYSTEMIC approach, with the knowledge that what we feel (Okama, Blax, me & others here) are the result of systems of dominations. (big systems that will hurt people)
Society will dehumanize MAD people, pressure them into thinking that we are our own problems, make us believe that we can simply "work it up harder", individualize our sufferings and if we do not take part in the capitalist framework.... We will be considered as parasites
BUT
We can fight back and be smarter.
Would you let a child raise themselves? No. Then why should we have the same approach for folks who have a looser grasp on reality than many children?
Nah man all I had before was some hypervigilance
When the crash happened, I got:
Dissociation
No energy ( again, I was doing a lot of overtraining before )
No mood
Many emotional flashbacks
Derealization
Walking around feeling like I'm dead
_________
I get your hypothesis but please just take my word for it for what happened in my situation, I've been looking into it for a year and a half
When the crash happened, I got:
Dissociation
No energy ( again, I was doing a lot of overtraining before )
No mood
Many emotional flashbacks
Derealization
Walking around feeling like I'm dead
_________
I get your hypothesis but please just take my word for it for what happened in my situation, I've been looking into it for a year and a half
Also, the crash happened WHILE I was in that dangerous enviroment
In fact, it happened SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE I was in that enviroment that my nervous system was trained for 15 years to perceive as dangerous
When I stopped my activities that generated many safety signals, all my nervous system was receiving was hundreds of daily danger signals from my enviroment
So it went into freeze to stay safe
In fact, it happened SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE I was in that enviroment that my nervous system was trained for 15 years to perceive as dangerous
When I stopped my activities that generated many safety signals, all my nervous system was receiving was hundreds of daily danger signals from my enviroment
So it went into freeze to stay safe
Try Voo-au chanting. I had panic attack disorder (multiple panic attacks a day) back in 2021. Learned about Voo au chanting (similar to OM chanting), meditation, and the difference between panic attacks, heart attacks, and what can cause chest pain. I thought I had heart problems lol Turns out it was just rib pain from costochondritis. Panic attacks cause chest pain too.
Treating any kind of PTSD boils down to making your nervous system feel safe again.
Treating any kind of PTSD boils down to making your nervous system feel safe again.