Questions & Mysteries What exactly is the difference between Advanced Coa and Advanced Coc
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It's pretty simple:
Advanced CoA just describes applications/techs, where a "spiritual" substance called armament haki gets used in different/more advanced ways, all based on the concept of flow.
What confuses most is that they think of it as if the term "advanced x haki" would describe an actual superior form of the same substance, but that's not the case.
What's more advanced is the usage, the techniques of it, ultimately leading into different/more useful applications:
- Weapon/Airslash/projectile enhancement
- shooting it out in haki blasts (Barrier-lvl1)
- shooting it out in a little space shifted haki blast (internal destruction-lvl2)
And just like with CoA, you can seemingly either do a) all that stuff with CoC aswell or b) further empower your different CoA applications with additional CoC.
Seems like the CoC haki tank is much larger though, so when CoC users make their conquerors haki flow, they can have access too much larger quantities of haki at once, therefore multiplying the power of each respective application.
Still need to see more of those CoC attacks though, cause right now BM either used internal destro CoC aswell or that CoC Shockwave both her and Luffy used, was just the "barrier haki" CoC equivalent and its internal destro version still has to come (which wouldn't fit the dialogue tho).
Hopefully that gets clarified.
Advanced CoA just describes applications/techs, where a "spiritual" substance called armament haki gets used in different/more advanced ways, all based on the concept of flow.
What confuses most is that they think of it as if the term "advanced x haki" would describe an actual superior form of the same substance, but that's not the case.
What's more advanced is the usage, the techniques of it, ultimately leading into different/more useful applications:
- Weapon/Airslash/projectile enhancement
- shooting it out in haki blasts (Barrier-lvl1)
- shooting it out in a little space shifted haki blast (internal destruction-lvl2)
And just like with CoA, you can seemingly either do a) all that stuff with CoC aswell or b) further empower your different CoA applications with additional CoC.
Seems like the CoC haki tank is much larger though, so when CoC users make their conquerors haki flow, they can have access too much larger quantities of haki at once, therefore multiplying the power of each respective application.
Still need to see more of those CoC attacks though, cause right now BM either used internal destro CoC aswell or that CoC Shockwave both her and Luffy used, was just the "barrier haki" CoC equivalent and its internal destro version still has to come (which wouldn't fit the dialogue tho).
Hopefully that gets clarified.
- Coa is skin hardening that allows bypassing of devil fruit defences ( like Luffy's rubber ) and logia intangibility
- Adv Coa is invisible haki armour extending from one body that can be shot from far away ( Sentomaru and Luffy at Udon ) or be channeled to attack things from the inside ( Red Roc and Breaking the chains ). Hence why Zoro commented about that being the haki the old man at Wano taught him
- Advanced Coc is just another haki coating that can be used with advanced Coa coating at the same time and can defend against another Coc attacks creating the gap effect ( Luffy and Kaido not touching ) or if advanced Coa is not used at the same time then advanced Coc it just coats the users attacks like normal Coa but much stronger ( Zoro cutting Kaido )
I think this is the only explanation that makes sense
- Adv Coa is invisible haki armour extending from one body that can be shot from far away ( Sentomaru and Luffy at Udon ) or be channeled to attack things from the inside ( Red Roc and Breaking the chains ). Hence why Zoro commented about that being the haki the old man at Wano taught him
- Advanced Coc is just another haki coating that can be used with advanced Coa coating at the same time and can defend against another Coc attacks creating the gap effect ( Luffy and Kaido not touching ) or if advanced Coa is not used at the same time then advanced Coc it just coats the users attacks like normal Coa but much stronger ( Zoro cutting Kaido )
I think this is the only explanation that makes sense
The only especially relevant person there is Zoro, Kid and Killer don’t have a clue what is going on and Law doesn’t comment either way.
All Zoro says is this
Which really only tells us one thing- that off-screen Luffy told Zoro he learned a form of Haki from an old man that he planned to use on Kaido. We don‘t know how much Luffy actually told him about it, whether he gave the full story (which doesn’t seem very Luffy-like to me, he‘s not one for long drawn out stories and explanations) or just said “I’ve learned some Haki from old man Hyo that will defintely let me beat Kaido!”
I don‘t think Zoro seems especially shocked or anything, no jaggy speech bubble, no exclamation marks, doesn’t seem to be shouting. Not compared to Kid anyway. He’s got the little lines at the side to denote it’s caught his attention, but he’s taking it pretty calmly all things considered.
So “was that the Haki he learned from the old man in Wano?” could really mean… anything
-Zoro’s a bit surprised it actually worked
-Zoro didn’t realise it was the same thing as the breath technique he uses
-Zoro is wondering if he can do the same thing and hasn’t realised it’s the same technique he uses
-Zoro is wondering if Luffy did use the new Haki he learned or something else
-Oda is just using Zoro talking out loud to remind the readers that Luffy trained for this in Udon, since at that point it had been about a year and a half since the training had happened in real life.
I think it’s more likely to be the last option mixed in with Zoro realising that Luffy can use the breath technique
All Zoro says is this
Which really only tells us one thing- that off-screen Luffy told Zoro he learned a form of Haki from an old man that he planned to use on Kaido. We don‘t know how much Luffy actually told him about it, whether he gave the full story (which doesn’t seem very Luffy-like to me, he‘s not one for long drawn out stories and explanations) or just said “I’ve learned some Haki from old man Hyo that will defintely let me beat Kaido!”
I don‘t think Zoro seems especially shocked or anything, no jaggy speech bubble, no exclamation marks, doesn’t seem to be shouting. Not compared to Kid anyway. He’s got the little lines at the side to denote it’s caught his attention, but he’s taking it pretty calmly all things considered.
So “was that the Haki he learned from the old man in Wano?” could really mean… anything
-Zoro’s a bit surprised it actually worked
-Zoro didn’t realise it was the same thing as the breath technique he uses
-Zoro is wondering if he can do the same thing and hasn’t realised it’s the same technique he uses
-Zoro is wondering if Luffy did use the new Haki he learned or something else
-Oda is just using Zoro talking out loud to remind the readers that Luffy trained for this in Udon, since at that point it had been about a year and a half since the training had happened in real life.
I think it’s more likely to be the last option mixed in with Zoro realising that Luffy can use the breath technique
The scene when Luffy breaks Yamato's cuffs is even more straightforward: Luffy knows what he's doing, which is exactly the same he has been consciously training for by breaking trees from inside (hence why the surface isn't damaged).
So we have:
1) Luffy unconsciously destroys their bomb collars, Hyogoro notices it and then explains about the next level that destroys from inside.
2) Luffy is explicitly shown training this level, hence why he can destroy trees without even touching their surface.
3) In Onigashima, Luffy consciously destroys Yamato's cuffs, and then uses "the haki he learned" to infuse Red Roc and give Kaido PSTD.
4) And only later he realizes CoC can be used to attack and defense in a way that you won't even touch your enemy.
Your explanation doesn't make sense, there's something clearly missing there. What was Luffy doing with Yamato's cuffs so confidently (if he failed, Yamato would die)? What was he training while destroying trees from inside?
As with most things CoA related, it’s not been well developed or explained.
I think what the problem is that our first explanation came from Hyo. And Hyo, being from Wano, doesn’t actually know what Haki is, he calls both CoA and CoC Ryou.
So here
He’s actually describing both CoA and CoC. He says “All I can teach you… is that which covers the outside.”
So Hyo, despite being a mighty blade in the past, and knowing how to use Ryou, can’t teach the second step, because it’s actually CoC, not CoA. Hyo doesn’t have CoC, he can’t use it. But because he’s from Wano, and doesn’t actually know what CoC is, or Haki, it’s just called Ryou.
But we can see that Luffy can do the second step, but only unconsciously, because it’s CoC, which Luffy has and can use.
Then it’s not until here that Luffy actually pieces together what Hyo was trying to teach him
And that the second step is actually CoC, not CoA as he’s been assuming.
That’s the only thing that makes sense to me anyway.
So how it goes is
Step Zero- bog standard CoA
Step One- CoA Ryou. The thing that Hyogoro can teach, Armament Haki that has the sort of forcefield look. Also used by Sentomaru
Step Two- CoC Ryou. Hyogoro couldn’t teach it, because it was CoC, Luffy was using it accidentally, not really knowing what he was doing until the fight on the roof. Zoro also seems to have used it, again accidentally, when he scarred Kaido.
That’s what I think, anyway, it’s still pretty messy
I think what the problem is that our first explanation came from Hyo. And Hyo, being from Wano, doesn’t actually know what Haki is, he calls both CoA and CoC Ryou.
So here
He’s actually describing both CoA and CoC. He says “All I can teach you… is that which covers the outside.”
So Hyo, despite being a mighty blade in the past, and knowing how to use Ryou, can’t teach the second step, because it’s actually CoC, not CoA. Hyo doesn’t have CoC, he can’t use it. But because he’s from Wano, and doesn’t actually know what CoC is, or Haki, it’s just called Ryou.
But we can see that Luffy can do the second step, but only unconsciously, because it’s CoC, which Luffy has and can use.
Then it’s not until here that Luffy actually pieces together what Hyo was trying to teach him
And that the second step is actually CoC, not CoA as he’s been assuming.
That’s the only thing that makes sense to me anyway.
So how it goes is
Step Zero- bog standard CoA
Step One- CoA Ryou. The thing that Hyogoro can teach, Armament Haki that has the sort of forcefield look. Also used by Sentomaru
Step Two- CoC Ryou. Hyogoro couldn’t teach it, because it was CoC, Luffy was using it accidentally, not really knowing what he was doing until the fight on the roof. Zoro also seems to have used it, again accidentally, when he scarred Kaido.
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That’s what I think, anyway, it’s still pretty messy
AdvCoA lvl2 or internal destruction CoA, whatever you want to call it, is not an inherently surperior form of haki (->CoC) that's used, which has like the special quirk of doing internal damage, it's just a more advanced usage.
Luffy basically is just able to release a haki blast some centimeters away from his hand/fist, the place where it normally would be released, and therefore equip it with that "Durability ignoring" - quirk.
That's what Hyo is not able to do, so he cannot teach it to him. Nothing more.
It's evident by his ability to consciously make use of that internal destruction CoA application all the while before he even knew that you can let CoC haki flow.
Upon knowing that this is a possibility, he instantly switched to those actual CoC enhanced attacks.
So he's obviously able to recognize each respective haki type and distinguish each from each other, therefore making that "accidentally using CoC" - argument moot.
AdvCoA lvl2 is a tech/application that exists independent of CoC haki.
Exactly. For that theory to be true it would need to explain:
1) What was Luffy training when he was destroying trees without affecting the surface oriented to his punch.
2) Why would he so confidently destroy Yamato's cuffs with the very same haki Hyo couldn't teach him if he hadn't realized yet about CoC.
3) What was Red Roc infused with, exactly, that made the difference in comparison to any other hit that had hurt Kaido and made him scream since he started fighting the Scabbards.
We can all cherry-pick what "makes sense" and draw targets around our shots; the problem comes with these details that don't fit.
1) What was Luffy training when he was destroying trees without affecting the surface oriented to his punch.
2) Why would he so confidently destroy Yamato's cuffs with the very same haki Hyo couldn't teach him if he hadn't realized yet about CoC.
3) What was Red Roc infused with, exactly, that made the difference in comparison to any other hit that had hurt Kaido and made him scream since he started fighting the Scabbards.
We can all cherry-pick what "makes sense" and draw targets around our shots; the problem comes with these details that don't fit.
Yep, exactly. He obviously could use it consciously the whole time, since the end of his Pre Onigashima training. He wasn't accidentally or coincidentally using it, when he was destroying Yamato's cuffs or pounding Dragon Kaido, he obviously was using it at will.
That notion makes no sense.
Yes. He told him that he couldn't teach him the internal destruction CoA application, right after Luffy destroyed those exploding necklaces with that technique.
That notion makes no sense.
Yes. He told him that he couldn't teach him the internal destruction CoA application, right after Luffy destroyed those exploding necklaces with that technique.
But to figure out the COC was in Kaido's attack, the only thing would be to sense the COC. Because there would be no other way for Luffy to know that it was COC.
It is the logical link between "Luffy getting hit by Ragnarok" and " Luffy realizing that it was coated with COC. Not only that , right after it Luffy was able to apply COC. In addition, he never referenced that he'd used it before or that it was familiar.
Luffy gets hit with Ragnarok > Luffy senses COC > Luffy realizing COC can be coated
It is the logical link between "Luffy getting hit by Ragnarok" and " Luffy realizing that it was coated with COC. Not only that , right after it Luffy was able to apply COC. In addition, he never referenced that he'd used it before or that it was familiar.
Luffy gets hit with Ragnarok > Luffy senses COC > Luffy realizing COC can be coated
As with most things CoA related, it’s not been well developed or explained.
I think what the problem is that our first explanation came from Hyo. And Hyo, being from Wano, doesn’t actually know what Haki is, he calls both CoA and CoC Ryou.
So here
He’s actually describing both CoA and CoC. He says “All I can teach you… is that which covers the outside.”
So Hyo, despite being a mighty blade in the past, and knowing how to use Ryou, can’t teach the second step, because it’s actually CoC, not CoA. Hyo doesn’t have CoC, he can’t use it. But because he’s from Wano, and doesn’t actually know what CoC is, or Haki, it’s just called Ryou.
But we can see that Luffy can do the second step, but only unconsciously, because it’s CoC, which Luffy has and can use.
Then it’s not until here that Luffy actually pieces together what Hyo was trying to teach him
And that the second step is actually CoC, not CoA as he’s been assuming.
That’s the only thing that makes sense to me anyway.
So how it goes is
Step Zero- bog standard CoA
Step One- CoA Ryou. The thing that Hyogoro can teach, Armament Haki that has the sort of forcefield look. Also used by Sentomaru
Step Two- CoC Ryou. Hyogoro couldn’t teach it, because it was CoC, Luffy was using it accidentally, not really knowing what he was doing until the fight on the roof. Zoro also seems to have used it, again accidentally, when he scarred Kaido.
That’s what I think, anyway, it’s still pretty messy
I think what the problem is that our first explanation came from Hyo. And Hyo, being from Wano, doesn’t actually know what Haki is, he calls both CoA and CoC Ryou.
So here
He’s actually describing both CoA and CoC. He says “All I can teach you… is that which covers the outside.”
So Hyo, despite being a mighty blade in the past, and knowing how to use Ryou, can’t teach the second step, because it’s actually CoC, not CoA. Hyo doesn’t have CoC, he can’t use it. But because he’s from Wano, and doesn’t actually know what CoC is, or Haki, it’s just called Ryou.
But we can see that Luffy can do the second step, but only unconsciously, because it’s CoC, which Luffy has and can use.
Then it’s not until here that Luffy actually pieces together what Hyo was trying to teach him
And that the second step is actually CoC, not CoA as he’s been assuming.
That’s the only thing that makes sense to me anyway.
So how it goes is
Step Zero- bog standard CoA
Step One- CoA Ryou. The thing that Hyogoro can teach, Armament Haki that has the sort of forcefield look. Also used by Sentomaru
Step Two- CoC Ryou. Hyogoro couldn’t teach it, because it was CoC, Luffy was using it accidentally, not really knowing what he was doing until the fight on the roof. Zoro also seems to have used it, again accidentally, when he scarred Kaido.
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That’s what I think, anyway, it’s still pretty messy
Hyogoro was specifically talking the “cuff destruction” Haki when he said Luffy could do something he couldn’t. Then we saw with Yamato Luffy learned the cuff destruction Haki. Luffy only thought of CoC coating when Kaido smacked him.
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For now coc is superior version of coa
The prob is we do not know what luffy is using currently; whether it is combination of adv coc + adv coa or only adv coc.............
When luffy and BM uses them there is a barrier where as when kaido uses it for most part there is no barrier except when he clashed with luffy........so either just like coa there is base level coc coating where there is no contact and second level barrier coc OR there is only coc coating and the barrier is combo of adv coc + adv coa
The prob is we do not know what luffy is using currently; whether it is combination of adv coc + adv coa or only adv coc.............
When luffy and BM uses them there is a barrier where as when kaido uses it for most part there is no barrier except when he clashed with luffy........so either just like coa there is base level coc coating where there is no contact and second level barrier coc OR there is only coc coating and the barrier is combo of adv coc + adv coa
Adv CoA are Ryou.
Adv CoC doesn't internally destroys you but more of a better AP attack. Black lightnings are good demonstration of that.
Adv CoC doesn't internally destroys you but more of a better AP attack. Black lightnings are good demonstration of that.