Questions & Mysteries What exactly is the difference between Advanced Coa and Advanced Coc

L

Lightbolt

‎
#1
#1
When Luffy was training in Udon on Ryo‚ It was never stated to be something only some people have but everyone ( which Coc isn't ).

- Being able to attack the inners
- Being able to attack without touching

Is one of those mentioned above Coa advanced and the other Coc ? Cause Ryo in Udon which was said to be advanced armament haki showed both qualities‚ but then Luffy shows advanced Coc and all it did was attack with no touching. I am not sure does Ryo mean both advanced Coc ( attack without touching ) and Coa ( attack from inside ) for a person who has both and just advanced armament nor non Coc users ? Still what is the difference between both advanced forms
 
L

Lightbolt

‎
#6
#6
vikas said:
just odas shit to hype things, he trained in Ad CoA just to ditch it.
Click to expand...
Could it be that the no touch thing and attack from inside are both advanced Coa‚ but when Coc is used along with it‚ it makes the attack more stronger ? As in the no touch thing or attack from inside are no features of advanced Coc and it was just coincidence that Luffy used both at the same time ?
Post automatically merged:

comrade said:
CoC probably powers up/multiplies. Maybe there's also something like overpowering the opponents will.
Click to expand...
The only explanation that makes sense‚ but the manga made it seem as if the no touch thing is Coc‚ when it was shown in Udon as Coa. So confusing
 
Garp the Fist

Garp the Fist

Bwahahahaha
‎
#7
#7
As with most things CoA related, it’s not been well developed or explained.

I think what the problem is that our first explanation came from Hyo. And Hyo, being from Wano, doesn’t actually know what Haki is, he calls both CoA and CoC Ryou.

So here



He’s actually describing both CoA and CoC. He says “All I can teach you… is that which covers the outside.”

So Hyo, despite being a mighty blade in the past, and knowing how to use Ryou, can’t teach the second step, because it’s actually CoC, not CoA. Hyo doesn’t have CoC, he can’t use it. But because he’s from Wano, and doesn’t actually know what CoC is, or Haki, it’s just called Ryou.

But we can see that Luffy can do the second step, but only unconsciously, because it’s CoC, which Luffy has and can use.

Then it’s not until here that Luffy actually pieces together what Hyo was trying to teach him



And that the second step is actually CoC, not CoA as he’s been assuming.

That’s the only thing that makes sense to me anyway.

So how it goes is

Step Zero- bog standard CoA


Step One- CoA Ryou. The thing that Hyogoro can teach, Armament Haki that has the sort of forcefield look. Also used by Sentomaru



Step Two- CoC Ryou. Hyogoro couldn’t teach it, because it was CoC, Luffy was using it accidentally, not really knowing what he was doing until the fight on the roof. Zoro also seems to have used it, again accidentally, when he scarred Kaido.

Post automatically merged:

That’s what I think, anyway, it’s still pretty messy
 
Finalbeta

Finalbeta

Zoro Worshipper
‎
#8
#8
Visually they looked very close pattern wise.

I think ACoC itself is probably based off penetration rather than shockwave prominently, since it would make little sense that there was no touch conversely, in order to generate a bigger AP output through shockwaves. This doesn't necessarily mean they are not existent.
 
HA001

HA001

World's Strongest Swordsman
‎
#9
#9
Garp the Fist said:
As with most things CoA related, it’s not been well developed or explained.

I think what the problem is that our first explanation came from Hyo. And Hyo, being from Wano, doesn’t actually know what Haki is, he calls both CoA and CoC Ryou.

So here



He’s actually describing both CoA and CoC. He says “All I can teach you… is that which covers the outside.”

So Hyo, despite being a mighty blade in the past, and knowing how to use Ryou, can’t teach the second step, because it’s actually CoC, not CoA. Hyo doesn’t have CoC, he can’t use it. But because he’s from Wano, and doesn’t actually know what CoC is, or Haki, it’s just called Ryou.

But we can see that Luffy can do the second step, but only unconsciously, because it’s CoC, which Luffy has and can use.

Then it’s not until here that Luffy actually pieces together what Hyo was trying to teach him



And that the second step is actually CoC, not CoA as he’s been assuming.

That’s the only thing that makes sense to me anyway.

So how it goes is

Step Zero- bog standard CoA


Step One- CoA Ryou. The thing that Hyogoro can teach, Armament Haki that has the sort of forcefield look. Also used by Sentomaru



Step Two- CoC Ryou. Hyogoro couldn’t teach it, because it was CoC, Luffy was using it accidentally, not really knowing what he was doing until the fight on the roof. Zoro also seems to have used it, again accidentally, when he scarred Kaido.

Post automatically merged:

That’s what I think, anyway, it’s still pretty messy
Click to expand...
This Is what I thought too. Luffys flashback to hyou before he used acoc sold it for me.
 
mly90

mly90

‎
#10
#10
Garp the Fist said:
As with most things CoA related, it’s not been well developed or explained.

I think what the problem is that our first explanation came from Hyo. And Hyo, being from Wano, doesn’t actually know what Haki is, he calls both CoA and CoC Ryou.

So here



He’s actually describing both CoA and CoC. He says “All I can teach you… is that which covers the outside.”

So Hyo, despite being a mighty blade in the past, and knowing how to use Ryou, can’t teach the second step, because it’s actually CoC, not CoA. Hyo doesn’t have CoC, he can’t use it. But because he’s from Wano, and doesn’t actually know what CoC is, or Haki, it’s just called Ryou.

But we can see that Luffy can do the second step, but only unconsciously, because it’s CoC, which Luffy has and can use.

Then it’s not until here that Luffy actually pieces together what Hyo was trying to teach him



And that the second step is actually CoC, not CoA as he’s been assuming.

That’s the only thing that makes sense to me anyway.

So how it goes is

Step Zero- bog standard CoA


Step One- CoA Ryou. The thing that Hyogoro can teach, Armament Haki that has the sort of forcefield look. Also used by Sentomaru



Step Two- CoC Ryou. Hyogoro couldn’t teach it, because it was CoC, Luffy was using it accidentally, not really knowing what he was doing until the fight on the roof. Zoro also seems to have used it, again accidentally, when he scarred Kaido.

Post automatically merged:

That’s what I think, anyway, it’s still pretty messy
Click to expand...
amazing explanation it makes a lot of sense
 
ShinmenTakezo

ShinmenTakezo

‎
#11
#11
Garp the Fist said:
As with most things CoA related, it’s not been well developed or explained.

I think what the problem is that our first explanation came from Hyo. And Hyo, being from Wano, doesn’t actually know what Haki is, he calls both CoA and CoC Ryou.

So here



He’s actually describing both CoA and CoC. He says “All I can teach you… is that which covers the outside.”

So Hyo, despite being a mighty blade in the past, and knowing how to use Ryou, can’t teach the second step, because it’s actually CoC, not CoA. Hyo doesn’t have CoC, he can’t use it. But because he’s from Wano, and doesn’t actually know what CoC is, or Haki, it’s just called Ryou.

But we can see that Luffy can do the second step, but only unconsciously, because it’s CoC, which Luffy has and can use.

Then it’s not until here that Luffy actually pieces together what Hyo was trying to teach him



And that the second step is actually CoC, not CoA as he’s been assuming.

That’s the only thing that makes sense to me anyway.

So how it goes is

Step Zero- bog standard CoA


Step One- CoA Ryou. The thing that Hyogoro can teach, Armament Haki that has the sort of forcefield look. Also used by Sentomaru



Step Two- CoC Ryou. Hyogoro couldn’t teach it, because it was CoC, Luffy was using it accidentally, not really knowing what he was doing until the fight on the roof. Zoro also seems to have used it, again accidentally, when he scarred Kaido.

Post automatically merged:

That’s what I think, anyway, it’s still pretty messy
Click to expand...
Good explanation, havent thought that far yet.

Having said that, why did Luffy use second level without knowing its coc and why does it look differently visually?
 
Fn Lucci

Fn Lucci

‎
#13
#13
First of all, abandon Ryuo or the fanmade term "Ryo." You cannot attempt to understand when you are actively confusing yourself.

There are two abilities discussed in Udon. One is the barrier style of CoA we saw several characters use pre timeskip. The other is the internal destruction type that was exclusive to Ray (in demonstration) before Luffy also learned it. Because of this, people rightly or wrongly tied this advanced armament to also having CoC.

The advanced CoC used by Kaido, however, doesn't destroy from within. It's like the barrier style armament, except it's a different and superior source.

It's too early for someone to try explaining Zoro's abilities though. Any headcanon you come up with in that regard, it won't be Oda's fault when it's contradicted. But of course it will be his fault if he contradicts himself.
 
L

Lightbolt

‎
#15
#15
I thought I was the only one confused about haki. Oda really needs to explain the advanced haki forms much more
Post automatically merged:

Garp the Fist said:
As with most things CoA related, it’s not been well developed or explained.

I think what the problem is that our first explanation came from Hyo. And Hyo, being from Wano, doesn’t actually know what Haki is, he calls both CoA and CoC Ryou.

So here



He’s actually describing both CoA and CoC. He says “All I can teach you… is that which covers the outside.”

So Hyo, despite being a mighty blade in the past, and knowing how to use Ryou, can’t teach the second step, because it’s actually CoC, not CoA. Hyo doesn’t have CoC, he can’t use it. But because he’s from Wano, and doesn’t actually know what CoC is, or Haki, it’s just called Ryou.

But we can see that Luffy can do the second step, but only unconsciously, because it’s CoC, which Luffy has and can use.

Then it’s not until here that Luffy actually pieces together what Hyo was trying to teach him



And that the second step is actually CoC, not CoA as he’s been assuming.

That’s the only thing that makes sense to me anyway.

So how it goes is

Step Zero- bog standard CoA


Step One- CoA Ryou. The thing that Hyogoro can teach, Armament Haki that has the sort of forcefield look. Also used by Sentomaru



Step Two- CoC Ryou. Hyogoro couldn’t teach it, because it was CoC, Luffy was using it accidentally, not really knowing what he was doing until the fight on the roof. Zoro also seems to have used it, again accidentally, when he scarred Kaido.

Post automatically merged:

That’s what I think, anyway, it’s still pretty messy
Click to expand...
I like the explanation but just to be sure I understand. I am just confused...Hyogoro doesn't have Coc‚ but he mentioned haki can be done without touching and also attack from the inside. How if he has no Coc
 
D

Desolate Smaug

‎
#16
#16
Lightbolt said:
When Luffy was training in Udon on Ryo‚ It was never stated to be something only some people have but everyone ( which Coc isn't ).

- Being able to attack the inners
- Being able to attack without touching

Is one of those mentioned above Coa advanced and the other Coc ? Cause Ryo in Udon which was said to be advanced armament haki showed both qualities‚ but then Luffy shows advanced Coc and all it did was attack with no touching. I am not sure does Ryo mean both advanced Coc ( attack without touching ) and Coa ( attack from inside ) for a person who has both and just advanced armament nor non Coc users ? Still what is the difference between both advanced forms
Click to expand...
Actually Old Man hyuo was surprised Luffy could do internal destruction. It's not something he actively taught him. He was teaching him barrier type haki.

Personally I think only people with CoC can channel CoA in a way that it destroys an object from within.
Adv CoC seems to supplement the usual usage of CoA.
 
L

Lightbolt

‎
#17
#17
Desolate Smaug said:
Actually Old Man hyuo was surprised Luffy could do internal destruction. It's not something he actively taught him. He was teaching him barrier type haki.

Personally I think only people with CoC can channel CoA in a way that it destroys an object from within.
Adv CoC seems to supplement the usual usage of CoA.
Click to expand...
So attack from far away is Armament
Attack from inside is Coc ?
 
Z

zeedsz

‎
#18
#18
We haven't been told about what ACoC really does. From observation, we can pin point that It's not the same thing ACoA (penetration), because of Luffy's three blasting scene, handcuffs removal, etc.
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Fn Lucci

Fn Lucci

‎
#20
#20
Lightbolt said:
I thought I was the only one confused about haki. Oda really needs to explain the advanced haki forms much more
Post automatically merged:


I like the explanation but just to be sure I understand. I am just confused...Hyogoro doesn't have Coc‚ but he mentioned haki can be done without touching and also attack from the inside. How if he has no Coc
Click to expand...
He's obviously witnessed it if he's able to tell when he sees it. Was it another conqueror some years ago? Maybe, but we don't know.
Lightbolt said:
So attack from far away is Armament
Attack from inside is Coc ?
Click to expand...
You don't have to understand it this way because it hasn't been confirmed. To compartmentalize this way only will make you more confused if it turns out to not be true. Oda is vague but you don't need to know more than he's actually explained. So far we've seen people who aren't conquerors attack from far away, we've seen two (conquerors) attack from within, and we've seen two conquerors exclusively use a stronger version of the barrier.
 
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