Current Events What's up With Zoro vs Lucci?

[HellBlazer04]

@Thread
Lucci has to be strong enough to stall Zoro in the first place. Pica excuse doesn't work since Lucci is directly engaged with Zoro in CQC. He's not just playing hide and seek. And Zoro has already tapped into green aura and even CoC last we've seen him, so obviously Oda intends it to be serious, we didn't see that against the Seraphim, which was the real stall segment of this arc.

Heavy disagree on this.

Even in the Pica fight zoro was actually pulling out strong moves like Shishi Sonson and 1080 canon from the beginning yet the fight was stalled unnecessarily till the doffy confrontation. Zoro as well as lucci have yet to use even a named attack.

I won't discuss on the power up discourse here, but ill only highlight the fact that Zoro went back to 2 swords in this chapter when he was "supposedly" using 3 swords with his wano powerup last chapter. Tell me why would zoro downgrade if he was struggling in his stronger state.

As for what you said about the stalling part, i'd say that everything until now was stall piece. Oda purposefully stalled the events in a way that now the most expected confrontation b/w Saturn and VP is finally happening, along with the overarching plot point of Kuma and Bonney who have heavy connections to the 2 most imp chars of this arc is also getting addressed.

Lucci vs Zoro is just a side event with no overall relevance. 3 chapters of offscreen fight with neither side using an attack yet? Yeah this ain't zoro's arc fight.
Im betting on the seraphims coming in play again soon with Saturn taking control.

 

[ZenZu]

Hes using no power up. He's not even using 3 swords any more. You been exposed. This is nothing more than an apoo 2.0

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Post automatically merged: Oct 5, 2023

Lucci vs Zoro is just a side event with no overall relevance. 3 chapters of offscreen fight with neither side using an attack yet? Yeah this ain't zoro's arc fight.
Im betting on the seraphims coming in play again soon with Saturn taking control.

I don't necessarily disagree with that, my point was this is no Pica. The Pica fight was concluded, and it was only prolonged due to hide and seek. Those excuses don't work here.

This fight has a chance of being inconclusive, but it's already past the point of being an Apoo or Pica situation.

 

[zenox]

The fact this has taken more than one chapter for Zoro to beat Lucci is already a worse showing than Luffy.

scaling the diff of the fight with number of chapters lmao

 

[HellBlazer04]

😭

Post automatically merged: Oct 5, 2023

I don't necessarily disagree with that, my point was this is no Pica. The Pica fight was concluded, and it was only prolonged due to hide and seek. Those excuses don't work here.

This fight has a chance of being inconclusive, but it's already past the point of being an Apoo or Pica situation.

Right i know the Pica and Apoo fights were different situations. Lucci is a much better fighter and is actually in a head to head fight unlike those 2 clowns.
But my point is that this fight is still being used as stalling(same case as apoo/pica) till saturn turns around the situation completely.

 

[ZenZu]

Right i know the Pica and Apoo fights were different situations. Lucci is a much better fighter and is actually in a head to head fight unlike those 2 clowns.
But my point is that this fight is still being used as stalling till saturn turns around the situation completely.

Yea I said that in my initial post. Lucci needed to meet the strength criteria to even be the reason for stalling. He doesn't have any gimmicks this is a straight up CQC fight.

Zoro busting out green aura and haki streaks is proof he's not sandbagging without a good explanation. It's time to just accept this is who Lucci is, we ran out of excuses already.

 

[HellBlazer04]

Zoro busting out green aura and haki streaks is proof he's not sandbagging without a good explanation. It's time to just accept this is who Lucci is, we ran out of excuses already.

Why does zoro only have 2 swords this chapter then? Last we saw he had 3 swords out with "flames aura" as you said.

 

[ZenZu]

Why does zoro only have 2 swords this chapter then? Last we saw he had 3 swords out with "flames aura" as you said.

Because Oda felt like drawing his reaction with his entire face intact. That little panel ain't that deep, it doesn't take precedence over a much more meaningful panel from when we got to peak at their fight.

This chapter was about Saturn, not Zoro vs Lucci. The Zoro vs Lucci chapter was when they were shit talking each other.

 

[Gauntlet]

Well the comparison fails the instant you realize Zoro is using his wano powerup.

Typically when it comes to irrelevant stall pieces Zoro is not busting out big modes. It's already past the stage of anything mentioned in this thread.

That's not just some side note, it's the meat and bones of the argument.

Even if the fight remains inconclusive, we already know Zoro has been engaged with Lucci in his Wano PU state.

The thing is that Zoro isn't really trying his hardest unless he's utilizing named attack, which so far as we know he hasn't used a single one. Countless nameless slashes are nigh-infinitely less powerful than any of the titled attacks, regardless of form/style being used. I can't consider this an actual fight until Zoro starts bringing out his named attacks.

I remember eerily similar debates around the Apoo v Zoro discussion debates. Guess who the ending favored there.

 

[HellBlazer04]

Because Oda felt like drawing his reaction with his entire face intact. That little panel ain't that deep, it doesn't take precedence over a much more meaningful panel from when we got to peak at their fight.

This chapter was about Saturn, not Zoro vs Lucci. The Zoro vs Lucci chapter was when they were shit talking each other.

You do realise this same explanation can be applied to haki streaks bullshit from last chapter. I can just as easily say that the panel from last chapter was irrelevant.
Last chapter the focus was Luffy and Kizaru not zoro vs lucci.

 

[CbShadow]

Hes using no power up. He's not even using 3 swords any more. You been exposed. This is nothing more than an apoo 2.0

Good catch noticing Zoro was no longer holding Wado in his mouth.

Chapter 1093 - sword

Chapter 1094 - no sword

That is another example that proves this battle is Pica 2.0. That makes it clear Zoro doesn't even need to use 3 swords against awakening Lucci. 2 swords are enough.

If Zoro was struggling against awakening Lucci or need to used KoH just to hold his own against awakening Lucci he wouldn't have switched from 3 swords to 2 swords. It would be different if he switched to 2 swords to perform a 2 sword style technique and then went back to 3 swords. That's not what the manga is showing us. So far Zoro hasn't used a single name attack.

All of these scenes are designed to make it clear Lucci, even in awakening, is no match for Zoro. The battle started with base Lucci vs 2 swords Zoro. Then went to awakening Lucci to hakiless 3 swords Zoro. Typically there's an adjustment period where a character has to get used to their opponent new power or mode. Zoro has adjusted to Lucci's greater strength and speed in awakening so now can fight him with just 2 swords.

Now we are waiting for Oda to advance the plot to the point Zoro can show his true power and quickly defeat Lucci. We must remember, Kaido, King and Law are the only characters in the manga that currently knows Zoro is a conqueror. That's assuming Law heard Kaido say Zoro is a conqueror. He might not have heard it. There's a reason why that power is still being kept a secret. It's rare to have more than one conqueror on a crew. I believe the next time Zoro uses ACoC his crewmates, the marines, and the world government will learn he's a conqueror. That's another reason Zoro hasn't used ACoC.

 

[AmiralTensei]

People just need to admit that Lucci is way stronger than what they used to think. Putting Lucci below King is hilarious.

 

[Don DaSlayer]

Filler fight

 

[ConquistadoR]

Right i know the Pica and Apoo fights were different situations. Lucci is a much better fighter and is actually in a head to head fight unlike those 2 clowns.
But my point is that this fight is still being used as stalling(same case as apoo/pica) till saturn turns around the situation completely.

I wonder if Oda's doing the same garbage he did from around 995 - 1000 where he made everything slow down just to match the beginning of the Rooftop Battle with chapter 1000.

Slowing everything down to match the start of the Egghead Incident with 1100 or something...

 

[ZenZu]

The thing is that Zoro isn't really trying his hardest unless he's utilizing named attack, which so far as we know he hasn't used a single one. Countless nameless slashes are nigh-infinitely less powerful than any of the titled attacks, regardless of form/style being used. I can't consider this an actual fight until Zoro starts bringing out his named attacks.

I remember eerily similar debates around the Apoo v Zoro discussion debates. Guess who the ending favored there.

1.Where is he gonna use named attacks when we didn't even get to see this fight? We have like 2 panels at most of actual fighting.

2.Can say the exact same thing for Lucci.

Why does seeing a named attack in an offpanel fight matter more than seeing the two characters using their power ups? As far as offpanel skirmishes are concerned we got them trying more than necessary already. We have yet to even see this fight. All we know is power ups are used.

 

[TheRealSJ]

 

[ConquistadoR]

1.Where is he gonna use named attacks when we didn't even get to see this fight? We have like 2 panels at most of actual fighting.

The whole point right there.
If they aren't actually fighting on panel - why do we need to use that to powerscale?
When it's clearly just them stalling each other...

 

[ZenZu]

The whole point right there.
If they aren't actually fighting on panel - why do we need to use that to powerscale?
When it's clearly just them stalling each other...

Brings me back to the original point. Lucci would have to be strong enough to stall in the first place, because this isn't a matter of gimmicks. We know green aura was used, we know they are in CQC so it does have relevance power scale wise.

We just don't know to what extent yet. We know Lucci needs to be strong enough to fill this role against Egghead Zoro with his wano PU, we just don't know how big exactly the gap is between them yet.

Replace Lucci let's say with one of those VAs that are gonna go down to some fodder SH and the scene just wouldn't work. There needed to be a threshold to pass to even initiate an offpanel deadlock, much more in that state.

Post automatically merged: Oct 5, 2023

You do realise this same explanation can be applied to haki streaks bullshit from last chapter. I can just as easily say that the panel from last chapter was irrelevant.
Last chapter the focus was Luffy and Kizaru not zoro vs lucci.

No that chapter gave us a peak at the fight. There was no fighting this chapter. It was just a reaction to Saturn. It doesn't take precedence over an established panel of them actually fighting, and Zoro getting his lines in. And even kicking into his PU from a previous arc. That is significant.

 

[Weeman]

You're all looking too deep into this, it's just a small fight that will end when the SHs have to escape.

The pacifistas won't turn anymore, a bunch of VAs are there, Saturn is probably fairly strong himself and Luffy has run out of G5 for the moment with Kizaru almost certainly not defeated yet. Things will only continue to get worse until something like Kuma's arrival gives them a chance to escape.

The dialogue should be enough to tell us Zoro is above Lucci but not enough to make it trivial.

 

[ConquistadoR]

Brings me back to the original point. Lucci would have to be strong enough to stall in the first place, because this isn't a matter of gimmicks. We know green aura was used, we know they are in CQC so it does have relevance power scale wise.

We just don't know to what extent yet. We know Lucci needs to be strong enough to fill this role against Egghead Zoro with his wano PU, we just don't know how big exactly the gap is between them yet.

Replace Lucci let's say with one of those VAs that are gonna go down to some fodder SH and the scene just wouldn't work. There needed to be a threshold to pass to even initiate an offpanel deadlock, much more in that state.

Aye, so you can say he's at some general level w/o needing to fight itself.
That i agree with, it doesnt make sense anymore to keep saying he isn't atleast comparable to Top Commanders.

 

[Afroking]

My god...So so many posts saying the same shit.

How do you fucking compare this to fucking pica and Apoo.
It doesn't fucking matter . Zoro was actually casual against Pica and Pica was running away from him .
Apoo sure he wasn't as serious as he was needed to be and he didn't using anything grand.

Here Zoro went all out with the Ryou with smoke coming out of all his swords. Don't care if you think his CoC is separate,he actually went all out with his hardening. Enma puts him on fucking time limit,but no he is casual just because Oda decides to offscreen it and waste Zoro's time and Lucci isn't worth his time at all..