Break Week When/If Zoro gets Nidai Kitetsu ?
- Thread starter Mezo
- Start date
Exactly, i expect some setup for gandhi having Shodai Kitetsu, maybe Ryuma protected Wano from him during the void century.
oda has his system based on a real thing
there were 12 supreme grade swords
later they became 15
so if zoro gets ndai
and makes all 3 black it will make them 15 supreme grade swords
there were 12 supreme grade swords
later they became 15
so if zoro gets ndai
and makes all 3 black it will make them 15 supreme grade swords
yes kokuto Enma will increase rank, it will not change its grade!
How hard is this to understand?
That is a good theory but as of now the manga clearly says a kokuto increases the blades rank, making your blade kokuto wont change its grade as per manga facts, anything else is just wishful thinking
How hard is this to understand?
Post automatically merged:
oda has his system based on a real thing
there were 12 supreme grade swords
later they became 15
so if zoro gets ndai
and makes all 3 black it will make them 15 supreme grade swords
there were 12 supreme grade swords
later they became 15
so if zoro gets ndai
and makes all 3 black it will make them 15 supreme grade swords
Kenjaku (懐宝剣尺) published in 1797 and the reprinted edition published in 1805, and the major revised edition of Kokon Kajibiko (古今鍛冶備考) published in 1830. Add up the number of sword smiths in each edition: Saijo Ō Wazamono 15, 'Ō Wazamono 21, Yoki Wazamono 58, Wazamono 93, lower 3 grade mixed 65.[1]
Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wazamono
So in actual history 3 more blades were added to the supreme grade category. So maybe Oda will have Zoro make 3 supreme grade blades.
I however personally believe Zoro will make Wado and Enma black blades and they'll be known as twin black blades after, but he won't make Shodai black as that's already a supreme grade blade.
Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wazamono
So in actual history 3 more blades were added to the supreme grade category. So maybe Oda will have Zoro make 3 supreme grade blades.
I however personally believe Zoro will make Wado and Enma black blades and they'll be known as twin black blades after, but he won't make Shodai black as that's already a supreme grade blade.
That's not how that works. It's highly unfeasible for someone to have gone around and ranked all 83 different Swords on an individual level, within their respective grades, and then they keep tabs on those Swords and continuously update this ranking system, that we have never once even been told about. Mihawk referred to his Sword as "The Strongest Black Blade in the World." Although its most likely the case that a Black Supreme Grade Sword, is the actual Strongest Sword in the World, Mihawk wasn't implying that there was a ranking system within the Grades, and his was number 1.
In order for that to even be remotely possible, they'd all have to be tested extensively against each other on an individual basis, just to see how every single one performs in comparison to each other.
Even in the real World system that Oda bases this off of, there is no such individual rankings.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wazamono
In order for that to even be remotely possible, they'd all have to be tested extensively against each other on an individual basis, just to see how every single one performs in comparison to each other.
Even in the real World system that Oda bases this off of, there is no such individual rankings.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wazamono
Applying real world logic to One Piece is the biggest mistake you'll ever make.
So did someone go around grading all the blades even those in Wano where no one can enter and even make books about it?
Again applying real world logic to this is your downfall, and also even in real life the blades were ranked by fame from most famous to least famous in their own grade and also by taking into account the swordsmith's ability and fame who made those katana.
the original ranking of the blades the fame of each sword and its cutting and longevity were taken into account were there were only 12 supreme blades but later generational listing change this to 15 supreme blades because of the fame of the swords smiths who made those blade, if you seriously want to apply real world logic into this then only when One Piece has far ended and the reputation of the people who made the blades is famous enough only then can Enma and Wado be classified as supreme grade.
Anyway, I don't even know why I'm putting so much effort into this since Hetetsu clearly stated that Enma will increase its rank and never said anything about the blade improving its grade, so unless you have information that clearly says what Tenguyama was saying as BS then all you are saying right now are baseless delusions of someone in denial.
So did someone go around grading all the blades even those in Wano where no one can enter and even make books about it?
Again applying real world logic to this is your downfall, and also even in real life the blades were ranked by fame from most famous to least famous in their own grade and also by taking into account the swordsmith's ability and fame who made those katana.
the original ranking of the blades the fame of each sword and its cutting and longevity were taken into account were there were only 12 supreme blades but later generational listing change this to 15 supreme blades because of the fame of the swords smiths who made those blade, if you seriously want to apply real world logic into this then only when One Piece has far ended and the reputation of the people who made the blades is famous enough only then can Enma and Wado be classified as supreme grade.
Anyway, I don't even know why I'm putting so much effort into this since Hetetsu clearly stated that Enma will increase its rank and never said anything about the blade improving its grade, so unless you have information that clearly says what Tenguyama was saying as BS then all you are saying right now are baseless delusions of someone in denial.
Grading blade pertains to the Quality of the blade. Completely different than "Ranking" all of them amongst each other.
If you take 10 people, and want to rank them to see who is the fastest to slowest, then you have to put them all in a race together.
The same principle applies to "ranking" Swords. If you want to apply a rank from 1-21 out of all the Great Grade blades, then you would need to perform equal testing amongst all of them. We're talking about equally testing 21 Swords scattered all throughout the massive World of One Piece. Not feasible.
Like I said, there is literally zero evidence to suggest that each Sword holds an individual number in terms of where it stands in it's classification. A Swords Grade is it's rank and Vice Verse. Grade is a synonym for the word Rank and vice versa.
If you take 10 people, and want to rank them to see who is the fastest to slowest, then you have to put them all in a race together.
The same principle applies to "ranking" Swords. If you want to apply a rank from 1-21 out of all the Great Grade blades, then you would need to perform equal testing amongst all of them. We're talking about equally testing 21 Swords scattered all throughout the massive World of One Piece. Not feasible.
Like I said, there is literally zero evidence to suggest that each Sword holds an individual number in terms of where it stands in it's classification. A Swords Grade is it's rank and Vice Verse. Grade is a synonym for the word Rank and vice versa.
We don't possess enough evidence at disposal to make classifications of swords aside from the grade of Meito and non Meito.
One thing though: Zoro seems to highlight he needed to use more of Enma's power, so this could mean that Enma was at least a bit better than his other swords, or if not he simply had to still finish mastering it which is also feasible.
One thing though: Zoro seems to highlight he needed to use more of Enma's power, so this could mean that Enma was at least a bit better than his other swords, or if not he simply had to still finish mastering it which is also feasible.
Zoro means that he needs to get used to Enma to unleash his full power, much like Shusui gave him problems when he first started using it too. It wouldn't make sense for Enma to be better than Shusui, a black blade, especially when Shusui was the sword of the greatest Samurai ever while Enma was the sword of "just" a great Samurai.
I believe all 21 grade swords are equal, otherwise the grading system is entirely useless and has no meaning.
I believe all 21 grade swords are equal, otherwise the grading system is entirely useless and has no meaning.
I agree with the general feeling, one thing however: Shusui is likely not massively stronger than Wado or else we would have noticed a bigger difference with Zoro's PL during pre skip. Just like once Zoro turns Enma black it will change grade according to Hitetsu and that will make him stronger but I don't necessarily expect some mastodontic
change despite it will even change grade apparently and not stand on the same one.
change despite it will even change grade apparently and not stand on the same one.
We have yet to see whether the process of Blackening a sword raises its overall grade or just the grade of hardness.
Shusui's hardness was way above Wado and Enma, yet it is of the same grade.
It doesnt make much sense to me that O Wazamonos become Saijo O Wazamonos after becoming Kokutos.
That's why I said wait and see if Zoro's first Kokuto will change its overall rank or it will just change the grade of its hardness.
If the hardness of O Wazamono sword, after blackening, becomes equal to non-Kokuto Saijo O Wazamono, then an original Saijo O Wazamono after blackening should still be significantly superior otherwise the blackening process did nothing for it.
Shusui's hardness was way above Wado and Enma, yet it is of the same grade.
It doesnt make much sense to me that O Wazamonos become Saijo O Wazamonos after becoming Kokutos.
That's why I said wait and see if Zoro's first Kokuto will change its overall rank or it will just change the grade of its hardness.
If the hardness of O Wazamono sword, after blackening, becomes equal to non-Kokuto Saijo O Wazamono, then an original Saijo O Wazamono after blackening should still be significantly superior otherwise the blackening process did nothing for it.
I however personally believe Zoro will make Wado and Enma black blades and they'll be known as twin black blades after, but he won't make Shodai black as that's already a supreme grade blade .
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Agreed with you
I think zoro will get shodai kitetsu from gandhi gorosei
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Agreed with you
I think zoro will get shodai kitetsu from gandhi gorosei
So after making a blade black you .. raise it's hardness ? I mean Wado didn't even break against Mihawk's attack, what's more hardness gonna add to it ?
After making a blade black it should become a better, stronger blade so it can be worth the trouble (hype).
The problem is that Ghandi was showing cleaning it and it was a normal blade, but that can always be easily retconned.
After making a blade black it should become a better, stronger blade so it can be worth the trouble (hype).
The problem is that Ghandi was showing cleaning it and it was a normal blade, but that can always be easily retconned.
Isnt that exactly what Zoro said is a characteristic of a black blade?
Of that is all Blackening does, raising hardness it doesnt necessarily mean that its overall grade is increased and we also dont know what is exactly that makes one blade a saijo compared to o wazamono and so on.
Thats why I said, wait it out and see. All we are doing right now is speculation based on something that doesnt make much sense unless the sword ranking is determined by hardness which would mean all saijos are harder than shusui...
Also, hardness is worth the hype, if the blade is tougher than kaidos scales... And we also have to see whether there are other benefits aside from hardness.
Of that is all Blackening does, raising hardness it doesnt necessarily mean that its overall grade is increased and we also dont know what is exactly that makes one blade a saijo compared to o wazamono and so on.
Thats why I said, wait it out and see. All we are doing right now is speculation based on something that doesnt make much sense unless the sword ranking is determined by hardness which would mean all saijos are harder than shusui...
Also, hardness is worth the hype, if the blade is tougher than kaidos scales... And we also have to see whether there are other benefits aside from hardness.