Questions & Mysteries Why are some people considering Oden to be levels below Mihawk ?

#62
Ryuma was known to one-shot opponents. Ryuma one-shotted the second strongest swordsman in the world who was a first-rate swordsman.

If we scale Mihawk around Ryuma lvl(Which Zoro will be>Ryuma) Then Mihawk one-shots Oden.
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Ryuma was known to one-shot opponents. Ryuma one-shotted the second strongest swordsman in the world who was a first-rate swordsman.

If we scale Mihawk around Ryuma lvl(Which Zoro will be>Ryuma) Then Mihawk one-shots Oden.
I agree with Mihawk potentially one-shotting Oden because Roger essentially did the same.
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Ryuma was known to one-shot opponents. Ryuma one-shotted the second strongest swordsman in the world who was a first-rate swordsman.

If we scale Mihawk around Ryuma lvl(Which Zoro will be>Ryuma) Then Mihawk one-shots Oden.
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I agree with Mihawk potentially one-shotting Oden because Roger essentially did the same.
This doesn't mean I think Oden isn't top tier, Oden definitely is admiral lvl(top tier)
 
#65
oden has a 21 great grade sword while mihawk has a 12 supreme grade sword

oden couldn't turn enma black while mihawk could turn yoru black

zoro got enma because he's the one who's going to surpass oden by turning enma black, which will make enma finally equally to yoru

all the signs point to mihawk > oden > zoro
I don't necessarily believe that Oden is stronger than Mihawk but I hate this argument whenever it is used. I don't think turning your blade black or having a higher grade necessarily makes you stronger than someone who couldn't or doesn't.

I mean, we don't know what grade Roger's sword was and he couldn't turn it black. Even Whitebeard, with a supreme grade blade, couldn't turn it black. I really don't think these 2 were weaker than Mihawk. It's more probable that the black blade is related to some haki/soul/ashura type shit than purely strength. I mean, if Zoro is able to turn his sword black this arc, it won't really translate to him surpassing Roger, Whitebeard or even Oden.

:specialmeh:
 

Zolo

Turning water into beer
#66
I don't necessarily believe that Oden is stronger than Mihawk but I hate this argument whenever it is used. I don't think turning your blade black or having a higher grade necessarily makes you stronger than someone who couldn't or doesn't.

I mean, we don't know what grade Roger's sword was and he couldn't turn it black. Even Whitebeard, with a supreme grade blade, couldn't turn it black. I really don't think these 2 were weaker than Mihawk. It's more probable that the black blade is related to some haki/soul/ashura type shit than purely strength. I mean, if Zoro is able to turn his sword black this arc, it won't really translate to him surpassing Roger, Whitebeard or even Oden.

:specialmeh:
Since mihawk could turn hes blade black. You should know for sure hes stronger than whitbeard and roger.... its loughable when evedence is right in front of you
 
#67
uh 41 yrs of age prets
13 yrs ago he was in his late twenties
Great you know one piece dates, good for u. That tells us literally nothing about if mihawk had a black blade or not.

Now maybe this time you’ll address the actual facts.
-Shanks is mihawk greatest rival.
-mihawk/shanks combat abilities during said time were already considered legendary.

Now give a reasonable explanation why he developed his black blade clashing against lesser competitors. An not against his actual greatest foe this time around...
yet to see anyone claim mihawk was already at his peak of power .
quote the person who stated he had all these things 13 yrs ago
backtracking by who?
.
Open virtually any mihawk vs shank thread predating the Reveal he wasn’t a Yonko. Why ur acting like u never heard it Comical. But irrelevant anyway I gave an actual answer. U gave me dates
:suresure:
would be delusional to think victory went the other way and mihawk still retained the wss title lmao.
if both were equal at the time
Not if shank isn’t predominately a swordsman. In that situation it’d fit perfectly. but u of course pretend it’s not a possibility. despite the character in question never having an extend fight on panel lmao..
judging shanks trajectory and considering the fact he also he isnt mentioned in any other battle aside from mihawk
I would say their growth rate remained quite similar with the other having to compensate for his lost arm in other ways .
but here what I find funny .
Yea this makes no sense, as Usual with you clowns.

First off shanks hasn’t had an Extensive backstory reveal. Claiming something as idiotic as, hes only ever fought mihawk. Is as random an fault as u can get. Shanks post arm lose ambitions directly put him in the path of the Yonko/Admirals/ WG. Mihawk path includes fighting a bunch of guys weaker then his greatest rival shanks. Shanks paths clearly rises his chances of clashing with the strongest. Hence a equal rise not make much of any real sense.
 
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#68
Since mihawk could turn hes blade black. You should know for sure hes stronger than whitbeard and roger.... its loughable when evedence is right in front of you
That Black Blade shit does not matter Whitebeard and Roger are obviously skilled in more than one style of Combat..... Even if you cant beat Mihawk with a blade you can still whoop his ass with other factors like Devil fruits, Haki, Martial arts ext.....There are multiple ways to bypass the sword in One Piece. Especially for top tiers....
 

Zolo

Turning water into beer
#69
That Black Blade shit does not matter Whitebeard and Roger are obviously skilled in more than one style of Combat..... Even if you cant beat Mihawk with a blade you can still whoop his ass with other factors like Devil fruits, Haki, Martial arts ext.....There are multiple ways to bypass the sword in One Piece. Especially for top tiers....
Mihawk still hasnt turned hes pocket knife into black pocket knife so he might only be equal to prime Roger , but hes still stronger than WB IMO
 
#72
Mihawk still hasnt turned hes pocket knife into black pocket knife so he might only be equal to prime Roger , but hes still stronger than WB IMO
He's not stronger than Whitebeard either, Whitebeard has the strongest paramecia devilfruit, plus his blade skills +hand to hand combat skills and his haki abilities. He's titled the strongest man for a reason bruh. Mihawks not beating any form of Whitebeard Or Gol D Roger. That Pocket Knife isnt working against anybody competent. All Mihawk has is his sword to use in combat. Whitebeard and Roger specialize in multiple areas. Mihawk isnt near them at all.
 
#73
Great you know one piece dates, good for u. That tells us literally nothing about if mihawk had a black blade or not.

Now maybe this time you’ll address the actual facts.
-Shanks is mihawk greatest rival.
-mihawk/shanks combat abilities during said time were already considered legendary.

Now give a reasonable explanation why he developed his black blade clashing against lesser competitors. Then his actual greatest foe this time around... Open virtually any mihawk vs shank thread predating the Reveal he wasn’t a Yonko. Why ur acting like u never heard it Comical. But irrelevant anyway I gave an actual answer. U gave me dates
:suresure:
Not if shank isn’t predominately a swordsman. In that situation it’d fit perfectly, but u of course pretend it’s not a possibility imao...
Yea this makes no sense, as Usual with you clowns.

First off shanks hasn’t had an Extensive backstory reveal. Claiming something as idiotic as, hes only ever fought mihawk. Is as random an fault as u can get. Shanks post arm lose ambitions directly put him in the path of the Yonko/Admirals/ WG. Mihawk path includes fighting a bunch of guys weaker then his greatest rival shanks. Shanks paths clearly rises his chances of clashing with the strongest. Hence a equal rise not make much of any real sense.
how a black blade is forged is still yet to be known
you might not need to be going off against another person in order to achieve this feat. prior to reveal of when shanks was a yonko , i didnt see an argument that stated mihawk was at his peak when he faced shanks. wankers would actually want to argue he's much greater now but I digress.

2. crux of why mihawk > oden isnt because of a black blade, but why oden > mihawk is cause he cut kaido . something we saw many people do to a smaller extent and will continue to see as the arc goes on...
its a slippery slope.

Claiming something as idiotic as, hes only ever fought mihawk.
saying mihawk is the most famous rival shanks ever took on
is different from saying he's only ever fought mihawk...
I would leave it up to you to see the difference between both. if folks believe shanks has fought someone greater yet all folks talk about on and on is the duels with mihawk, then surely the duels with mihawk eclipse the others.


First off shanks hasn’t had an Extensive backstory reveal.
funny enough shanks has a lot more coverage on his backstory than mihawk ..

Yea this makes no sense, as Usual with you clowns.
um yeah
not going to start trading this back and forth
tag me when you want to communicate like an adult.

Not if shank isn’t predominately a swordsman.
well saying shanks isnt predominately a swordsman is different from shanks has other things apart from swordsmanship.
pre·dom·i·nant·ly
/prəˈdämənəntlē/
Learn to pronounce

adverb

  1. mainly; for the most part

    his sword seems involved in pretty much every clash we have seen . his rival is mihawk a swordsman ...
    arguing he isnt just a swordsman is one thing
    arguing his swordmanship is a throw away and he is predominantly something else is delving into headcanon territory and speculation that would be impossible for anyone to prove. hope this helps .


    in any case the excuse with shanks having something else isnt the same with oden ,a pure swordsman as you folks like to call it by that argument the black blades point is valid. lmao
 
#74
What does CoC got to do with anything. Oden still a swordsman
it means everything. It means that actually you are not obligated to have a swordman style to be at the top of your might - raylegh with 1 or 2 Sword and doesn't Caring about it or shanks losing an arm and still becoming stronger than mihawk by reaching yonko tier says it all.
You are not worthy to be a top tier among top tier if you don't have it.
And thus Oda invented Wss title to help them Cope. and mf was prime example : mihawk did nothing nor was he considered as incredible despite beeing muh Wss.

Oh and it Also means you don't have to Cope with a mere différence in color in your Sword.
 
#75
how a black blade is forged is still yet to be known
you might not need to be going off against another person in order to achieve this feat.
True I’ve mentioned that in the thread. It’s unknown what exactly it is, or how it’s done. No point using that as an argument for why he’s superior to oden yet. Tho if we used everything we currently known about haki. It blooms in extreme diff fights. So overall it still more logical it happened against shanks, not inferior foes.
prior to reveal of when shanks was a yonko , i didnt see an argument that stated mihawk was at his peak when he faced shanks. wankers would actually want to argue he's much greater now but I digress.
Nope, back in those days there was no Fuji. An mihawk had no real top tier portrayal other then matching supposedly “the Yonko shanks”. That only would be relevant if both were at peak. His iceberg feat an the vista clash, weren’t enough to convince people back then.
2. crux of why mihawk > oden isnt because of a black blade, but why oden > mihawk is cause he cut kaido . something we saw many people do to a smaller extent and will continue to see as the arc goes on...
its a slippery slope.
Sure I saw it, tho the difference there is oden receiving a superior feat to anything mihawk done. People toke that an ran with it. The black blade shit, we know to little about. to be pushing it as a definitive sign of superiority.
Claiming something as idiotic as, hes only ever fought mihawk.
saying mihawk is the most famous rival shanks ever took on
is different from saying he's only ever fought mihawk...
I would leave it up to you to see the difference between both. if folks believe shanks has fought someone greater yet all folks talk about on and on is the duels with mihawk, then surely the duels with mihawk eclipse the others.
Fighting someone doesn’t make them ur rival. Mihawk is shanks greatest rival for more reasons then them simply having fought. That does not however take away from the fact. fighting someone stronger was very likely during his rise to a Yonko. An even if it wasn’t the Competition itself still higher for shanks. So either way u look at it, there little reason to be claiming they increased in power similarly.
First off shanks hasn’t had an Extensive backstory reveal.
funny enough shanks has a lot more coverage on his backstory than mihawk ..
Which isn’t much of an rebuttal. Mihawk VC makes it clear shanks is the strongest mihawk ever fought. No such restrictions have been placed on shanks. Hence claiming he’s never fought anybody above mihawk headcanon. We dnt have the info to claim that. An as a by product of shanks ambitious he’s likely to have fought stronger foes.
Yea this makes no sense, as Usual with you clowns.
um yeah
not going to start trading this back and forth
tag me when you want to communicate like an adult.
what was the point of this? Ur already replying above an continue below... seems like u just wanted to duck the fact shanks likely faced stronger foes post arm lost. Tho if ur feelings really got hurt my bad.

Not if shank isn’t predominately a swordsman.
well saying shanks isnt predominately a swordsman is different from shanks has other things apart from swordsmanship.
pre·dom·i·nant·ly
/prəˈdämənəntlē/
Learn to pronounce

adverb

  1. mainly; for the most part

    his sword seems involved in pretty much every clash we have seen . his rival is mihawk a swordsman ...
    arguing he isnt just a swordsman is one thing
    arguing his swordmanship is a throw away and he is predominantly something else is delving into headcanon territory and speculation that would be impossible for anyone to prove. hope this helps .
  1. A small exchanges not exactly conclusive info on how someone fight tho is it??? I’ve never claimed his sword was a throwaway, only that his strongest source of power isn’t swordsmanship. The fact however remains the possibility there, as the characters yet to showcase he’s full capabilities.
  1. in any case the excuse with shanks having something else isnt the same with oden ,a pure swordsman as you folks like to call it by that argument the black blades point is valid. lmao
  1. How can the point be valid without any confirmation. Theres no conclusive evidence that a black blade. Makes u a superior swordsman to another in a fight.
 
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#76
oden never managed to get black blade while mihawk did
the bit about roger and whitebeard didn't mean anything power wise. We all know it's just oda wanking oden as some kind of charismatic character
it actually the opposite this passage was to hype Roger and everything leads to that.

as i Said once you have COC - and even more a good df - you don't need to Cope with a Sword color, or you have to Say that both Wb and Roger are weaker than black knife no Haki dude.
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Wasn’t mihawk equal to non black blade 2 armed shanks??
+ to rookie non worthy of Beeing yonko *
and he managed to surpass the black knife man no haki with one arm left and without a black knife.
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  • Young Shanks and mihawk were the same level without shanks having a black blade
  • Ray mihawk same level rayleigh no black blade
  • Roger and mihawk "same level" roger no black blade
But somehow the gap between mihawk and oden is humongous because he didn't have a black blade??
:kaidowhat:
they have to admit that a non Coc knife holder, non yonko, non feat shower, Is stronger than WB + ROGER BC THEY DON T HAVE BLACK KNIFE
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LOL, nobody considers Oden "levels" below Mihawk. In fact most people think he's a top tier.
Ask shishi, adl, ha, fetaker
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This ahould answe OP guestion... Mihawk is supperior
good troll
 
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#78
A bias narrative of Hawkeye being the WSS therefore getting the benefit of the doubt. However seeing how Oda didn't bother nor show any interest in bringing a young Hawkeye into the Oden/Roger flashback to shows a skirmish or duel between them.Hawkeye more than likely didn't face Oden. Soo it pretty much expectations of how strong people rate Hawkeye imho.
 
#79
True I’ve mentioned that in the thread. It’s unknown what exactly it is or how it’s done. No point using that as an argument for why he’s superior to oden yet. Tho if we used everything we clearly known about haki. It blooms it extreme diff fights. So overall it still more logical it happened against shanks, not inferior foes.

Nope, back in those days there was no Fuji. An mihawk had no real top tier portrayal other then matching supposedly “the Yonko shanks”. That only would be relevant if both were at peak. His iceberg feat an the vista clash, weren’t enough to convince people back then.
Sure I saw it, tho the difference there is oden receiving a superior to anything mihawk done. People toke that an ran with it. The black blade shit we know to little about to be pushing it as a definitive sign of superiority.
Fighting someone doesn’t make them ur rival. Mihawk is shanks greatest rival for more reasons then them simply having fought. That does not however take away from the fight fighting someone stronger doesn’t constitute rivalry.

Which isn’t much of an rebuttal. Mihawk VC makes it clear shanks is the strongest mihawk ever fought. No such restrictions have been placed on shanks. Hence claiming he’s never fought anybody above mihawk headcanon. We dnt have the info to claim that. An as a by product of shanks ambitious he’s likely to have fought stronger foes.
what was the point of this? Ur already replying above an continue below... seems like u just wanted to duck the fact shanks likely faced stronger foes post arm lost. Tho if ur feelings really got hurt my bad.


  1. A small exchanges not exactly conclusive info on how someone fight tho is it??? I’ve never claimed his sword was a prop, only that his main source of power isn’t swordsmanship. The fact however remains the possibility there, as the characters yet to showcase he’s full capabilities.
    How can the point be valid without any confirmation. Theres no conclusive evidence that a black blade. Makes u a superior swordsman to another in a fight.
no feelings hurt here
I just would respond back to sharp comments and dont want this to delve into a thread of insults. am not @HA001 :milaugh: . point of it was to have an argument without a personal back and forth

I’ve never claimed his sword was a prop, only that his main source of power isn’t swordsmanship. The fact however remains the possibility there, as the characters yet to showcase he’s full capabilities.
How can the point be valid without any confirmation. Theres no conclusive evidence that a black blade. Makes u a superior swordsman to another in a fight.


hmmm
holding a black blade no.
but forging one yourself I believe it does make you a stronger/superior swordsman note didnt say stronger overall to the other person. as to what shanks major power is I cant agrue for and againt but can only speculate based on the fact that I dont think he would have a rivalry with someone who isnt considered a swordsman .

for someone like oden with absolutely nothing else bar skills in swordsmanship
and for mihawk which folks believe is much of the same
mihawk is the better swordsman
testament to this is that he matched a feat, forged a black blade , that a legend from oden's home country managed to do.
the difference here is folks consider oden cutting kaido a better feat than
- having legendary duels with shanks
- forging a black blade
both of which so far only one or two people have done in the entire series.
how many people have managed to wound.cut kaido?
awfully plenty now and plenty more to come.

Mihawk VC makes it clear shanks is the strongest mihawk ever fought. No such restrictions have been placed on shanks. Hence claiming he’s never fought anybody above mihawk headcanon. We dnt have the info to claim that. An as a by product of shanks ambitious he’s likely to have fought stronger foes.

true
so then list the stronger foes he fought and make a solid explanation as to why the ace novels implies his fame came from those duels
why wb mentions those duels
and not any of his other battles against seemingly stronger foes.
easier to say from the information we have right now
mihawk was also the most notable person he had a duel with. he had a clash with wb which we saw but nothing serious enough to consider a full scale battle and in clashes at the very least most folks would expect him to hold his own so nothing suprising there.



Nope, back in those days there was no Fuji.
I believe fujitora is older than both so there was fuji..
author introduced fuji as a swordsman
but still holds mihawk as the wss . I dont see any swordsman surpassing him till zoro does and I dont think fuji was introduced to tip the scales with that.

So overall it still more logical it happened against shanks, not inferior foes
its also iffy to constrict when the black blades are formed to this timeline when we dont know how its form . I would argue mihawk would only share a rivalry with shanks because he is a swordsman. Not one with wb or big mom, he isnt interested in just strong people but swordsmen and swordsmasters yet here we are. ..
but to the point on oden since there is a mutual agreement that oden is not like shanks at all
looks every bit of a swordsman as zoro and mihawk
and didnt achieve feats in swordsmanship that seem exclusive to the likes of mihawk and ryuuma.
I would say he's a weaker and a less skilled swordsman.
and if mihawk's disciple ends up cutting kaido while still being < mihawk
I will be here to inform everyone why oden's on screen feats might be better than a lot of characters that are stronger than him because it simply was the time to allow him to all out.

most of these other characters
we havent even seen a named attack or their full arsenal
we are yet to see them fight knowing all the changes that have been made to haki post time skip.

if we were to rank strictly on on screen feats
kinemon has displayed feats better 90% of the supernovas.
 
#80
no feelings hurt here
I just would respond back to sharp comments and dont want this to delve into a thread of insults. am not @HA001 :milaugh: . point of it was to have an argument without a personal back and forth
Ard cool, @HA001 cave dweller like tendencies admittedly push me into overreaction mode. I’ll restrain from here
:suresure:
hmmm
holding a black blade no.
but forging one yourself I believe it does make you a stronger/superior swordsman note didnt say stronger overall to the other person. as to what shanks major power is I cant agrue for and againt but can only speculate based on the fact that I dont think he would have a rivalry with someone who isnt considered a swordsman .
Honestly I do to, my only issue with it’s current Usage. Is It shouldn’t be use as a plus in mihawk favor, until we actually know how it’s a plus an to what extent.

His rivalry predates his arm lost tho. Before it was fine to claim he was a swordsman 100%. It becomes wonky once people start claiming. He went from arguably the strongest swordsman, to second strongest. Despite losing his dominant sword hand. All Without picking up any additional abilities along the way.
for someone like oden with absolutely nothing else bar skills in swordsmanship
and for mihawk which folks believe is much of the same
mihawk is the better swordsman
testament to this is that he matched a feat, forged a black blade , that a legend from oden's home country managed to do.
the difference here is folks consider oden cutting kaido a better feat than
- having legendary duels with shanks
- forging a black blade
both of which so far only one or two people have done in the entire series.
how many people have managed to wound.cut kaido?
awfully plenty now and plenty more to come.
Oden feat wasn’t just injuring Kaido, he nearly killed him. Something nobody currently seemly can do. An by all intents and purposes Oda has Kaido > shanks. Which leaves the black blade. Something we need further knowledge on to actually give mihawk whatever advantage hes afforded.
true
so then list the stronger foes he fought and make a solid explanation as to why the ace novels implies his fame came from those duels
why wb mentions those duels
and not any of his other battles against seemingly stronger foes.
easier to say from the information we have right now
mihawk was also the most notable person he had a duel with. he had a clash with wb which we saw but nothing serious enough to consider a full scale battle and in clashes at the very least most folks would expect him to hold his own so nothing suprising there.
During shanks raise to Yonko status theres a likelihood he faced some variety of admirals/Yonkos/ WG dogs. Higher then the chance mihawk does. There all directly opposing forces shanks needs to compete against to reach the top.

Here’s where the lack of an actual back story comes in. We can’t say exactly who he fought, it’s inconclusive. But we can conclude the possibility he’s fought someone stronger clearly there. As it’s directly in line with his ambitious. Whereas mihawk ceilings are already confirmed.

As for why mihawk constantly being bought up imo it’s simple, they have an actual rivalry.... Shank potentially fighting with meme/admiral once doesn’t constitute as a rivalry imo.
Nope, back in those days there was no Fuji.
I believe fujitora is older than both so there was fuji..
author introduced fuji as a swordsman
but still holds mihawk as the wss . I dont see any swordsman surpassing him till zoro does and I dont think fuji was introduced to tip the scales with that.
U reading that wrong. Fuji wasn’t even a character back then. Was what I might, u couldn’t say oh Fuji a top tier. an mihawk > Fuji, that didn’t exist. There was the the iceberg feat, fighting vista, an clashing with “ supposedly Yonko shanks”. The only one of those 3 u can possibly make him look top tier lvl is with shanks. Hence both being at peak.
So overall it still more logical it happened against shanks, not inferior foes
its also iffy to constrict when the black blades are formed to this timeline when we dont know how its form . I would argue mihawk would only share a rivalry with shanks because he is a swordsman. Not one with wb or big mom, he isnt interested in just strong people but swordsmen and swordsmasters yet here we are. ..
but to the point on oden since there is a mutual agreement that oden is not like shanks at all
looks every bit of a swordsman as zoro and mihawk
and didnt achieve feats in swordsmanship that seem exclusive to the likes of mihawk and ryuuma.
I would say he's a weaker and a less skilled swordsman.
and if mihawk's disciple ends up cutting kaido while still being < mihawk
I will be here to inform everyone why oden's on screem feats ight be better than a lot of characters that are stronge than him because it simply was the time to allow him to all out.
While iffy we are working with unknowns. An to be frank it just seems way more likely it’d happen against shank then not. Anymore would be headcanon so technically u ain’t wrong. Do u actually have a Alternative circumstance??

In odens case, we need to see how a black blade even affects the fight. Before we can assess what advantage it’d give. Also Zoro would need to nearly kill fresh Kaido in a single blow. For that argument to actually have some Legitimate imo. A simple cuts not what oden achieved.
most of these other characters
we havent even seen a named attack or their full arsenal
we are yet to see them fight knowing all the changes that have been made to haki post time skip.

if we were to rank strictly on on screen feats
kinemon has displayed feats better 90% of the supernovas.
true, which is why I dnt support oden cutting Kaido as A definitive reason he wins.
 
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