Current Events Why do People Expect Sanji to Solo a Calamity?

[Tyki_Mikk]

@playa4321 zoro is not fighting king and u even added izo and kawa
Xoro wont tag team in a 1v1 against a swordsnan and zoro is to much for king

To be honest I was thinking like you before Oda decide to bring Zoro to the live floor.
So I wouldn't bet anymore against it, because that I said if im wrong.

About Izo and Kawa, they fight first 2vs1 and getting defeated by King. Then Zoro adter getting healed come into the game and defeating King.

I know you expect him to fight Kaido and it still can happen(since Kaido speech with "their will not be a samurai like Oden anymore" wasn't proved wrong by Zoro so I expect near future this can still happen where Zoro prove Kaido wrong) but I open up now the possibilty that Zoro also could fight King.

King vs Zoro would only happen if Marco really get defeated soon. If not I don't expect Zoro vs King.

 

[Cinera]

Zoro+Izo+Kawa vs King

Zoro is not going to fight a swordsman with assistance from another swordsman, let alone from two. Especially not a swordsman that is by all indications significantly weaker than him.

King getting his hype via beating Marco together with Queen and Pero.

Defeating Marco together with Queen and Peros does not hype King, instead, it greatly dehypes him. It shows that King is so far below Marco that he required assistance from someone else as strong as him along with another high tier to defeat Marco.

Then both King and Queen face four strong enemies. Drake and Apoo(theory from the past where Apoo betrayal Queen based on a old history) vs Queen where both damage Queen but lose in the end. Same with King who beat Izo and Kawa. Lead to Sanji vs Queen and Zoro vs King.

I don't think Zoro's combat presentation has that much bearing on Sanji's.

If it did, Zoro wouldn't have been fighting two Yonkou on the Rooftop while Sanji was getting stalled by Black Maria.

 

[Luffy is the mc]

I expect him to defeat one and I think it's important for his character and for the crew that he does.

 

[Zowo]

To be honest I was thinking like you before Oda decide to bring Zoro to the live floor.
So I wouldn't bet anymore against it, because that I said if im wrong.

About Izo and Kawa, they fight first 2vs1 and getting defeated by King. Then Zoro adter getting healed come into the game and defeating King.

I know you expect him to fight Kaido and it still can happen(since Kaido speech with "their will not be a samurai like Oden anymore" wasn't proved wrong by Zoro so I expect near future this can still happen where Zoro prove Kaido wrong) but I open up now the possibilty that Zoro also could fight King.

King vs Zoro would only happen if Marco really get defeated soon. If not I don't expect Zoro vs King.

Zoro coming up and beating a worn out king is lame so no he wont fight king

 

[nik87]

Zoro coming up and beating a worn out king is lame so no he wont fight king

King hater.

 

[Cinera]

Scarabs will face Numbers

There's no hint towards that:

• Nekomamushi is facing Perospero
• Inuarashi is facing Jack
• Kinemon is going to be protecting Momonosuke
• Kiku is going to defeat Kanjuro
• Raizo if facing Orochi's head ninja
• Denjiro may have gone to meet up with Hiyori
• Shutenmaru was taking out by Kanjuro's bombs.

None of the other Scabbards are facing Numbers, so I don't think Izo or Kawamatsu will either.

Cause we have expectation for this series to give proper shine for main cast...

Sure, but what about Nami and Usopp? They are not soloing their respective opponents.

Not because of powerscalling but because the character has to grow strengthwise and show the limit of RS.

Doesn't this argument also apply to Nami and Usopp?

For now, it seems that only a calamity can do that. Furthermore, Oda has established a link between Queen and Sanji would may lead for them to fight each other.

Nami had far more buildup with Ulti as her opponent:

• Ulti defeated her already
• While Ulti was threatening her she declared that Luffy will not stop until he becomes Pirate King
• Ulti spent a while chasing her
• She struck down Ulti with her lightning (twice)
• Ulti hurt Tama
• She vowed that she will defeat Ulti
• She resolved her self to stop running and challenged Ulti head on

And yet Nami doesn't get to defeat Ulti solo. Linlin took out Ulti. If Ulti recovers, she would likely be weakened.

If Oda is willing to prevent Nami from taking down Ulti by herself despite the extensive build-up for Nami vs Ulti, then I don't think the superficial setup for Sanji vs Queen/King is sufficient to grant Sanji a solo victory.

 

[PurpleSwordsman]

Are you one to complain about shitposts?

Hella funny! xDDDDD

King and Queen are not at Katakuri lvl, so Sanji soloing a calamity at this point won't be a problem in terms of powerlvls.
We saw already the huge increase in power of Franky by oneshoting a Number with his own beam (not General Franky which is stronger) when in PH he couldn't do it with Baby 5 and Buffalo with his General Franky.
We know that each arc SHs are stronger by default.
And Sanji got RS.
And he almost unscatched after King's attack intended to kill him.
And he clashed with King on equal grounds.
And all SN on this island are on par with the ones from rooftop and Sanji plays in that league as well.

So, it's not a problem at all.

 

[Adam 🍎]

There's no hint towards that:

• Nekomamushi is facing Perospero
• Inuarashi is facing Jack
• Kinemon is going to be protecting Momonosuke
• Kiku is going to defeat Kanjuro
• Raizo if facing Orochi's head ninja
• Denjiro may have gone to meet up with Hiyori
• Shutenmaru was taking out by Kanjuro's bombs.

None of the other Scabbards are facing Numbers, so I don't think Izo or Kawamatsu will either.

Non of the scarabs are facing Numbers bcs all Numbers are at Live Floor and non of the Scarabs are going there besides Izo and Kawamtsu

 

[stealthblack]

yes, he can easily solo 2 at the same time, why have it a neg diff

 

[Cinera]

I expect him to defeat one

I think he will defeat a Calamity, the question is whether he does it solo.

I think it's important for his character and for the crew that he does.

I think Nami vs Ulti had a stronger argument in this regard:

Nami had far more buildup with Ulti as her opponent:

• Ulti defeated her already
• While Ulti was threatening her she declared that Luffy will not stop until he becomes Pirate King
• Ulti spent a while chasing her
• She struck down Ulti with her lightning (twice)
• Ulti hurt Tama
• She vowed that she will defeat Ulti
• She resolved her self to stop running and challenged Ulti head on

And yet Nami doesn't get to defeat Ulti solo. Linlin took out Ulti. If Ulti recovers, she would likely be weakened.

If Oda is willing to prevent Nami from taking down Ulti by herself despite the extensive build-up for Nami vs Ulti, then I don't think the superficial setup for Sanji vs Queen/King is sufficient to grant Sanji a solo victory.

Non of the scarabs are facing Numbers bcs all Numbers are at Live Floor and non of the Scarabs are going there besides Izo and Kawamtsu

There are 5 Numbers left, and they weren't at the Live Floor. All the Numbers at the Live Floor have already been defeated.

 

[Luffy is the mc]

I think he will defeat a Calamity, the question is whether he does it solo.

I think he will. For the most part I supposed.

Post automatically merged: May 18, 2021

I think Nami vs Ulti had a stronger argument in this regard

I also think Nami vs Ulti has to happen. But Sanji needs a real fight as one of the strongest character of the crew.

 

[SHIHI]

Because he is one of the main fighters in the crew, if Franky is soling Sasaki then Sanji has no business with anyone less than a calamity.
I think he will solo Queen.

 

[The White Crane]

Who expects this?

A not-so-inconsiderable portion of Sanji FC, I think.

Let alone two?

Are the Sanji vs King and Queen people serious? Is this some elaborate shitpost I'm missing out on? Is this coping because Sanji hasn't defeated a significant combatant solo in the New World?

I'm pretty flabbergasted. Luffy defeating Linlin in WCI seemed to have more going for it than Sanji taking down both Calamities.


Disclaimer
I don't actually hate Sanji and I'm annoyed at Sanji bashing. This is me being (perhaps brutally) honest.

As usual, I tag a lot of people for my posts. If you want to be removed from my tag lists, let me know. Likewise, if you want to be added.


Introduction
Leaving aside Sanji taking down both Calamities, I'm not confident that Sanji will defeat any Calamity solo. I have been expecting Sanji to do this for a while, but I think it's time I reevaluate. There are three broad reasons I'm losing confidence in Sanji soloing a calamity:

1. Increased scepticism of the meta-narrative
2. Powerscaling might actually matter?
3. Viability of a solo matchup given the events of the Live Floor

Increased Scepticism of the Meta Narrative

Spoiler

There's the traditional argument that Sanji will solo a Calamity (presumably Queen) because Queen feels the template of Sanji's traditional opponent:

• He's a bit goofy.
• Both love women (particularly Komurasaki)
• He has a rivalry with Zoro's presumptive opponent (King).
• He knows Sanji's father and addressed Sanji as "Judge's Son".
• He mentioned the need to take down the Strawhats' strongest combatants.
• He's the one that sent the Tobi Roppo after Sanji.

I agree that Queen is Sanji's presumptive opponent. However, recent events have undermined my confidence in Sanji defeating Queen solo.

Particularly:

• Oda had Linlin defeat Usopp's presumptive opponent (Pay Pay).
• Oda had Linlin defeat Nami's presumptive opponent (Ulti).
• Oda had Carrot lose to her presumptive opponent (Perospero) and seems to have entirely discarded the opportunity for her to get vindicated in a rematch, instead of setting up someone else (Nekomamushi) to defeat them.

Meta/pattern-based arguments are looking less credible to me seeing as Oda appears to have consistently defied such patterns.

Nami vs Ulti in particular is very stark:

Nami had far more buildup with Ulti as her opponent than Sanji does with either of the Calamities:

• Ulti defeated her already.
• While Ulti was threatening her she declared that Luffy will not stop until he becomes Pirate King.
• Ulti spent a while chasing her.
• She struck down Ulti with her lightning (twice).
• Ulti hurt Tama
• She vowed that she will defeat Ulti.
• She resolved herself to stop running and challenged Ulti head on.

And yet Nami doesn't get to defeat Ulti solo. Linlin took out Ulti. If Ulti recovers, she would likely be significantly weakened.

If Oda is willing to prevent Nami from taking down Ulti by herself despite the extensive build-up for Nami vs Ulti, then I don't think the superficial setup for Sanji vs Queen/King is sufficient to grant Sanji a solo victory.


The same argument that predicts Sanji soloing Queen also predicted:

• Usopp soloing Page One
• Nami soloing Ulti
• Carrot defeating Perospero
• Zoro never fighting Kaido
• Zoro soloing King
  • In fairness, this might still happen.

This argument has a horrendous track record, so I'm pretty dubious of Sanji soloing Queen based on this argument alone.

Powerscaling Might Actually Matter?

Spoiler

Here I take my L. I've long been an advocate that narrative trumps powerscaling, and characters will become as strong as Oda needs them to be for the narrative. Well, I took a big fat L here:

• Carrot was not strong enough to defeat Perospero and so she lost.
  • Someone that's actually strong enough (Nekomamushi) is facing Perospero instead.
• Usopp was not strong enough to defeat Pay Pay and so Linlin defeated (or at least significantly nerfed) him.
• Nami was not strong enough to defeat Ulti and so Linlin defeated (or at least significantly nerfed) her.

By his current showings, Sanji is not strong enough to defeat Queen even when wearing the Raid Suit.

Sanji's best showings with the Raid Suit is failing to even damage a Tobi Roppo:

Spoiler

And being able to withstand an attack from one:

Spoiler

Sanji has nothing suggesting he's actually strong enough to defeat Queen. Before I didn't think that matters because I thought the narrative trumps powerscaling, but now I think powerscaling matters.

As far as powerscaling goes, Sanji has an absolutely horrendous track record in the New World:

• He teamed up with Jimbe to take down Wadatsumi
• He was treated by fodder like Law at Punk Hazard
• He was on the back foot against a Vergo that was massively holding back
  • He wasn't using his Bamboo (his main weapon)
  • He wasn't using hardening
  • He didn't appear to be using Rokushiki techniques (bar possibly Tekkai)
• He was fodderised by Doflamingo
• He defeats Sheepshead together with Brook
  • Even then, Sheepshead is a fodder headliner
• He failed to defeat Judge
  • Or even be depicted as stronger than him
• He was never demonstrated to be above all his siblings
  • At the end of WCI, Niji still had to save him and mocked him for being way too slow.
• He did not defeat any of the Charlotte siblings in WCI
• He failed to defeat Page One even with his Raid Suit power-up
  • Page One has been portrayed as the weakest of the Tobi Roppo

Sanji's last solo victory against a significant opponent of note was pretimeskip. His combat ability presentation today has not been good. If powerscaling actually matters — if the narrative does not trump it — then I have no reason to believe that Sanji is strong enough to defeat Queen.

Viability of a Solo Matchup

Spoiler

Leaving aside the narrative and powerscaling counterarguments, I'm not sure the story actually allows Sanji to have a solo battle against any of the Calamities.

On the Alliance's side, we'll have:

• Zoro
• Marco
• Sanji
• Nekomamushi
• Drake
• Hyougoro
• Kawamatsu
• Izo
• Chopper
• The Yakuza Bosses

On the Beast Pirates side, we'll have:

• King
• Queen
• Perospero
• Apoo
  • He might defect or even go solo

I'll try and present the best-case scenario for Sanji:

• Hyougoro and the Yakuza bosses deal with fodder or recover.
  • They don't fight anyone of note.
• Nekomamushi fights Perospero
• Chopper treats Zoro
• Drake fights Apoo
• Marco (or Zoro + Izo) deal with King

This still leaves at least Sanji and Kawamatsu to take on Queen.

And honestly speaking, I don't expect this to be how it shakes out. For entirely separate reasons, I doubt Zoro — even a brutally injured Zoro — would tag-team a swordsman with another one. FIghting despite injuries that would cripple anyone else is his entire shtick.

Exhibit A:

Spoiler

Exhibit B:

Exhibit C:

There may be others, but this isn't supposed to be a Zoro thread, so I'll stop here for now.

I also don't think Drake will fight Apoo. Queen backstabbing and discarding Apoo was really highlighted, and I got the impression that Apoo was reconsidering his entire allegiance to the Beast Pirates:

Spoiler

So I'm actually expecting Sanji to face Queen alongside some combination of (Drake, Kawamatsu and Izo).

Perhaps I'm wrong on Zoro and he'll face King with backup from Izo, and I'm wrong on Apoo and he'll face Drake, but that still leaves Kawamatsu unaccounted for. Ultimately, I don't think there's a viable configuration of matchups on the Live Floor that permits Sanji to defeat Queen solo.

I expect Sanji to land the last hit, and maybe his support would be defeated along the way and the match would end in a 1 vs 1. I can see a Doflamingo vs Luffy and Law situation being plausible. That still isn't a solo match though.

Conclusions
At this point, I do not foresee the story following developments that would permit Sanji to defeat Queen solo.


Summary
To summarise what I've said above:

• The sort of narrative arguments that predict Sanji soloing a Calamity have a terrible track record
• Oda seems to actually give a damn about powerscaling
• Sanji's powerscaling portrayal does not suggest that he can handle a Calamity
• I don't think there's a viable configuration of matchups on the Live Floor that would permit Sanji a solo battle vs a Calamity.

I noticed that the campaign for Sanji to solo both King and Queen grew exponentially after Zoro scarred Kaido. Naturally, I believe this to be an immediate reaction to the Grandmaster's feat, because, it seems to me at least, that they believe it would take one of these three feats for the "Sanji and Zoro are equals/rivals" notion (long dead in real life) to stay afloat after 1010:

1. Sanji outright killing Kaido.
2. Sanji giving Kaido a larger scar than Zoro did.
3. Sanji soloing both King and Queen.

No. 1 & 2 are naturally impossible, so they settle for no. 3 (in my opinion, anyway).

In actuality, regardless of whom Sanji defeats, I have no reason to believe he is going to solo a YC this arc. My best guess remains Sanji tag teaming Queen with Chopper.

 

[Garp the Fist]

What do people mean by solo?

It’s like Luffy and Kaido, Sanji will 1 vs 1 Queen, but Queen has also taken damage from a load of people beforehand. So far only Jinbei and Franky can really be said to be 100% soloing an opponent, we’ll see whether any Scabbards help those two out

 

[Adam 🍎]

There are 5 Numbers left, and they weren't at the Live Floor. All the Numbers at the Live Floor have already been defeated.

And OBV more will come. You just dont want Sanji to fight someone solo

 

[Finalbeta]

Who expects this?

Unfortunately a few individuals.

There's 0 logic basis for it.

 

[Zowo]

King hater.

stfu

 

[Finalbeta]

Sanji v Queen is very well occurring and their fandom should thank Oda for that if it does, after what we witnessed with his meh performance against Page One. At least from a logistic standpoint Sanji is heading there and from a plot related standpoint that can make sense.

 

[Human D Luffy]

Because they still believe that Sanji can rival with Zoro in strength.
The moment you realize that is not true, Sanji beating King is literally a joke.

 

[Midnight Delight]

A not-so-inconsiderable portion of Sanji FC, I think.



I noticed that the campaign for Sanji to solo both King and Queen grew exponentially after Zoro scarred Kaido. Naturally, I believe this to be an immediate reaction to the Grandmaster's feat, because, it seems to me at least, that they believe it would take one of these three feats for the "Sanji and Zoro are equals/rivals" notion (long dead in real life) to stay afloat after 1010:

1. Sanji outright killing Kaido.
2. Sanji giving Kaido a larger scar than Zoro did.
3. Sanji soloing both King and Queen.

No. 1 & 2 are naturally impossible, so they settle for no. 3 (in my opinion, anyway).

In actuality, regardless of whom Sanji defeats, I have no reason to believe he is going to solo a YC this arc. My best guess remains Sanji tag teaming Queen with Chopper.

It's ridiculous tbh. How the fuck will Sanji surpass Marco this early. Because Marco can't even defeat them in their base forms while he's in Hybrid. An hour of G4 tier attacks from Marco and they seem fine

Even Franky's Power Boost is reasonable compared to the shit that people are suggesting Sanji is gonna do. And even he might need Denjiiro's Help since Sasaki is a skilled Swordman with