Powers & Abilities Why do people have trouble calling characters swordsman ?

[HA001]

this where you very adamantly disagree usually
@HA001

With kuzan ive never said he was as he used his "sword" against what was for him fodder and was blocked and disarmed pretty easy by sanji and zoro iirc.

Kizaru is different the most weve seen him pushed he used his light sword and kept up with a legendary swordsman.
And meme has used prometheus when she was at her strongest and even has named attacks.

 

[Fn Lucci]

I already mentioned to exclude those who pick up a sword for the lulz - Luffy.
He isnt at his best when using a sword. The only person he can cut with it is himself.

And in turn I was joking.

Whitebeard doesnt use a sword, it has been explained thousands of time and the manga has been clear that WB isnt a swordsman.
Roger is at his best with a sword, WB is at his best with his weapon which isnt a sword, nothing wrong there.

It's a naginata, a samurai blade. Murakumogiri is a Meito explicitly listed as being on par with Yoru. That's like saying Garp is a different kind of vice admiral because he doesn't have a DF. The distinction of the difference has no relevance in the manga and if Mihawk used that excuse he'd be a coward. "Oh dude your handle is way too long I ain't fighting that thing."

There is no need to challenge everyone, the titles put you above everyone else. Whitebeard didnt challenge every single man the same how Kaido didnt challenge every single creature. The 3 WSx titles are there to explain who the top dogs are. Kaido>WB>Mihawk>rest.

Whitebeard challenged the king of pirates as clearly stated in canon and once on panel. He took on the whole Marine HQ and managed to fuck up the strongest Marine. He clashed with Shanks and clearly had the respect of his fellow Yonko. Anyone who wanted it could gladly get it. He was legit.

Kaido has also taken on fellow Yonko. He sits on an island where the Marines won't even go. We have no evidence of him taking an L that he didn't avenge and Oda made it clear that the MF is so bad that he can't even kill himself.
"In a one on one fight, always bet on Kaido."
"Kaido? You'll never beat that thing."
Another legit guy. This is the problem with Mihawk. His best feat is equivalent to the draw between Big Mom and Kaido, with nothing else so far, and he was one of the earliest characters in the series.

 

[yorosenpai]

Basically One Piece equal to a Pirate world right?

So mostly every single character should be classified as swordsman.

Pirate are know to use mostly sword right?

There it is!!! If Oda choose this world. He likes to draw people using swords.

Why cant people accept that?

Basic Logic = One Piece (story of Pirate) = almost 100% character knows how to use swords

 

[nik87]

Another legit guy. This is the problem with Mihawk. His best feat is equivalent to the draw between Big Mom and Kaido, with nothing else so far, and he was one of the earliest characters in the series.

You are choosing to ignore facts which manga has provided. The author himself, also known as Oda, has given the WSS title to Mihawk and not to Whitebeard. That fact is unavoidable, the manga doesnt consider the Naginata as a sword and nobody in their right mind would either. All swords are blades, all blades are not swords. Mihawk cannot have the WSS title if WB is a swordsman. Put 2 and 2 together.

It's a naginata, a samurai blade. Murakumogiri is a Meito explicitly listed as being on par with Yoru.

Being a meito =/= being a sword. While it is of the same rank as Yoru, it is not on par with it since Yoru is a black blade, the strongest one. Once again, the manga and its author dont consider Naginata as a sword nor Whitebeard as a swordsman, those are manga facts.

 

[Fn Lucci]

You are choosing to ignore facts which manga has provided. The author himself, also known as Oda, has given the WSS title to Mihawk and not to Whitebeard. That fact is unavoidable, the manga doesnt consider the Naginata as a sword and nobody in their right mind would either. All swords are blades, all blades are not swords. Mihawk cannot have the WSS title if WB is a swordsman. Put 2 and 2 together.

Where did I ignore that Oda has given him that title? I haven't. I'm saying that the title is poorly defined as we have no evidence of how he got it or how he maintains it. You made a joke about it yourself, didn't you? Strongest man is put to the test, strongest creature is put to the test. WSS so far is drawing against a YC and not having an indicated advantage. What reasoning do you believe would make a difference for Mihawk to not take on the blade that is able to split clouds and contend with the sword of the pirate king?

Being a meito =/= being a sword. While it is of the same rank as Yoru, it is not on par with it since Yoru is a black blade, the strongest one. Once again, the manga and its author dont consider Naginata as a sword nor Whitebeard as a swordsman, those are manga facts.

So what about Rayleigh or Shanks? We have no evidence that Mihawk can beat them. Should they be disqualified as swordsman, and for what reason?

 

[Yukihime]

Where did I ignore that Oda has given him that title? I haven't. I'm saying that the title is poorly defined as we have no evidence of how he got it or how he maintains it. You made a joke about it yourself, didn't you? Strongest man is put to the test, strongest creature is put to the test. WSS so far is drawing against a YC and not having an indicated advantage. What reasoning do you believe would make a difference for Mihawk to not take on the blade that is able to split clouds and contend with the sword of the pirate king?



So what about Rayleigh or Shanks? We have no evidence that Mihawk can beat them. Should they be disqualified as swordsman, and for what reason?

Oof, Rayleigh is difficult to categorise. I think he is considered a swordsman, but it is simply that he isn't interested in the title or is retired. Shanks is also a swordsman, or atleast was, but may also not be interested in the title. I think one piece categorises swordsmen by people fighting using kenjutsu. It's a difficult category because we also have df users who use swords.

 

[nik87]

Where did I ignore that Oda has given him that title? I haven't. I'm saying that the title is poorly defined as we have no evidence of how he got it or how he maintains it. You made a joke about it yourself, didn't you? Strongest man is put to the test, strongest creature is put to the test. WSS so far is drawing against a YC and not having an indicated advantage. What reasoning do you believe would make a difference for Mihawk to not take on the blade that is able to split clouds and contend with the sword of the pirate king?
So what about Rayleigh or Shanks? We have no evidence that Mihawk can beat them. Should they be disqualified as swordsman, and for what reason?

We have not seen how WSM and WSC got their title either.
WSS is put to the test too, the best swordsman of WBP has not managed to take the title away from him.
Has anyone else managed to take away the title from Mihawk? Nope. Where is the problem?

There is no issue with WB and Roger, WB isnt a swordsman, Roger is dead, the WSS belongs to Mihawk, there is no swordsman above Mihawk from the moment of his introduction and Roger wasnt alive then so even if he was stronger than Mihawk, the conflict with the title doesnt exist. What about Shanks and Rayleigh? They are naturally below Mihawk, the title makes it clear. We have no evidence that they can beat Mihawk either, in fact the only evidence, the title, speaks that they cant beat him.

Common sense, no need for mental gymnastics or to disqualify someone as a swordsman, the only thing that needs to be acknowledged is that it isnt fitting your own power scaling while manga doesnt depend on our individual tier lists. Everyone who is at their best with a sword is a swordsman and by default below Mihawk, pretty simple if you can process it.

 

[Fn Lucci]

Oof, Rayleigh is difficult to categorise. I think he is considered a swordsman, but it is simply that he isn't interested in the title or is retired. Shanks is also a swordsman, or atleast was, but may also not be interested in the title. I think one piece categorises swordsmen by people fighting using kenjutsu. It's a difficult category because we also have df users who use swords.

Yeah, Rayleigh is completely ambiguous and that's all we can suggest, that he doesn't want to deal with all that. Shanks is ambiguous, but he's right there so it's worse.

We have not seen how WSM and WSC got their title either.
WSS is put to the test too, the best swordsman of WBP has not managed to take the title away from him.
Has anyone else managed to take away the title from Mihawk? Nope. Where is the problem?

There's a direct line. Roger was the Luffy of his time and took down the guy no one else could topple. Whitebeard was the guy who fought evenly with Roger, so Roger dying gives him his credibility. What's the best victory you can name for Mihawk? Remember that the duels with the Shanks don't list a winner, and only someone smoking bath salts would suggest that Shanks was stronger before he lost his arm.

We have no evidence that they can beat Mihawk either, in fact the only evidence, the title, speaks that they cant beat him.

We saw Shanks offer to fight and get declined early in the series, and he went unchallenged when he showed up at Marineford. The same place where Mihawk fought evenly with an underling. Young Teach said that kid Shanks wasn't strong at a point where Vista was a young fighter. Shanks became a four billion berry Yonko while Vista stayed in place. So how does tying Vista give him credibility?

No gymnastics here, only questions for which I'd like an answer.

 

[uyuu]

Yeah, Rayleigh is completely ambiguous and that's all we can suggest, that he doesn't want to deal with all that. Shanks is ambiguous, but he's right there so it's worse.

There's a direct line. Roger was the Luffy of his time and took down the guy no one else could topple. Whitebeard was the guy who fought evenly with Roger, so Roger dying gives him his credibility. What's the best victory you can name for Mihawk? Remember that the duels with the Shanks don't list a winner, and only someone smoking bath salts would suggest that Shanks was stronger before he lost his arm.



We saw Shanks offer to fight and get declined early in the series, and he went unchallenged when he showed up at Marineford. The same place where Mihawk fought evenly with an underlying. Young Teach said that kid Shanks wasn't strong at a point where Vista was a young fighter. Shanks became a four billion berry Yonko while Vista stayed in place. So how does tying Vista give him credibility?

No gymnastics here, only questions for which I'd like an answer.

Mihawk gains the credibility mainly via portrayal, i think. The portrayal which is the title itself. If Vista is strong, Shanks is strong, Rayleigh is strong, the WSS title is exactly why Mihawk is still stronger than those strong fighters, because he has the title WSS and they all fight with a sword.

 

[nik87]

There's a direct line. Roger was the Luffy of his time and took down the guy no one else could topple. Whitebeard was the guy who fought evenly with Roger, so Roger dying gives him his credibility. What's the best victory you can name for Mihawk? Remember that the duels with the Shanks don't list a winner, and only someone smoking bath salts would suggest that Shanks was stronger before he lost his arm.

Roger has no 1vs1 victory either... Whitebeard had WSM title before the great age of pirates aka while Roger was alive.
What's Shanks' 1vs1 victory? What's Rayleigh's 1vs1 victory?
Oda is telling a story here, he is not satisfying the tier lists of the fandom. Oda said Mihawk is WSS. Do you accept that fact?

We saw Shanks offer to fight and get declined early in the series, and he went unchallenged when he showed up at Marineford. The same place where Mihawk fought evenly with an underlying. Young Teach said that kid Shanks wasn't strong at a point where Vista was a young fighter. Shanks became a four billion berry Yonko while Vista stayed in place. So how does tying Vista give him credibility?
No gymnastics here, only questions for which I'd like an answer.

What we saw is Mihawk calling Shanks a one-armed HAS-BEEN. Do you know what that means?
Mihawk clashed with Vista, they never fought until the end, you are coming up with wild conclusions based on a clash.
It is mental gymnastics, you cant accept the facts from the manga, that Mihawk is the WSS, no one else. I dont have such a problem.

 

[Dark Admiral]

Because much stronger character than the proclaimed WSS holds the Sword, that’s why..!!:cheers:

 

[nik87]

Because much stronger character than the proclaimed WSS holds the Sword, that’s why..!!:cheers:

Another one who reads two-piece and disagrees with Oda's own words.

 

[Dark Admiral]

Another one who reads two-piece and disagrees with Oda's own words.

I’m just talking about Physical strength bro. No need to get all defensive. I mean you don’t believe on WB or Big Mom being physically weaker than Hawk Eye do you..

 

[nik87]

I’m just talking about Physical strength bro. No need to get all defensive. I mean you don’t believe on WB or Big Mom being physically weaker than Hawk Eye do you..

WB has nothing to do with Hawkeye since he isnt a swordsman, manga made that clear even for dummies.
BM, even with greater physical strength, cant beat Mihawk but who says she is physically stronger than him in the first place?
The title is, after all, world's STRONGEST swordsman, not skillest or whatever is used in two-piece.

 

[Dark Admiral]

WB has nothing to do with Hawkeye since he isnt a swordsman, manga made that clear even for dummies.
BM, even with greater physical strength, cant beat Mihawk but who says she is physically stronger than him in the first place?
The title is, after all, world's STRONGEST swordsman, not skillest or whatever is used in two-piece.

WB’s bisento is a classified Meito by Oda himself. And doesn’t that make him a swordsman too..?? BM can walk through the earth itself so who says she isn’t physically stronger than him..??
The problem is Oda himself. He gave a title to one person about WSS yet he passes around swords to every possible Top Tier he can find. We’ve already been through this bro, so no point on dragging this long.

 

[trav]

And meme has used prometheus when she was at her strongest and even has named attacks.

thats a typo or your stance took a 180 on BM

 

[Fn Lucci]

Roger has no 1vs1 victory either... Whitebeard had WSM title before the great age of pirates aka while Roger was alive.
What's Shanks' 1vs1 victory? What's Rayleigh's 1vs1 victory?
Oda is telling a story here, he is not satisfying the tier lists of the fandom. Oda said Mihawk is WSS. Do you accept that fact?

Broooo. I was born in 87 and I love Zoro. I'd like to give you ground to stand on but you're struggling too hard.

Oden was the strongest samurai from Wano and already a WB commander. Roger knocked him out of the way. Roger had over a five billion dollar bounty and his only rival was called the strongest man in the world after he died.

What we saw is Mihawk calling Shanks a one-armed HAS-BEEN. Do you know what that means?

Mihawk said that at a point where Oda was obscuring Shanks' true level. He's not actually a has been as around that time he had a skirmish with Kaido and came out fine, and matched blades with Whitebeard. The gorosei who shit in Akainu give him the respect of a direct meeting. He's not a has been in any way... you think Vista has similar clout? Meanwhile, Mihawk was willing to oblige scrub Zoro with a duel lol.

Holy shit I'm getting embarrassed for you. Or you're trolling. Not worth my time.

 

[nik87]

WB’s bisento is a classified Meito by Oda himself. And doesn’t that make him a swordsman too..?? BM can walk through the earth itself so who says she isn’t physically stronger than him..??
The problem is Oda himself. He gave a title to one person about WSS yet he passes around swords to every possible Top Tier he can find. We’ve already been through this bro, so no point on dragging this long.

Bisento being a meito makes WB a swordsman? You have answered your own question and the facts are there, the only question is if you can process them or you prefer to stick to your own power scaling which goes against the manga?
Is walking through the earth helping her defeat anybody credible?
Yeah, we have been through this, Oda gave WSS title to the guy he created as strongest among all swordsmen. Do you accept that fact?

Broooo. I was born in 87 and I love Zoro. I'd like to give you ground to stand on but you're struggling too hard.
Oden was the strongest samurai from Wano and already a WB commander. Roger knocked him out of the way. Roger had over a five billion dollar bounty and his only rival was called the strongest man in the world after he died.

Roger sent Oden flying who instantly came back sprinting. Roger has no 1vs1 victory, I would like to give you ground to stand on but...
No, his rival was called WSM before Roger died, dont twist things to fit your arguments. Flashy things without 1vs1 victory...

Mihawk said that at a point where Oda was obscuring Shanks' true level. He's not actually a has been as around that time he had a skirmish with Kaido and came out fine, and matched blades with Whitebeard. The gorosei who shit in Akainu give him the respect of a direct meeting. He's not a has been in any way... you think Vista has similar clout? Meanwhile, Mihawk was willing to oblige scrub Zoro with a duel lol.
Holy shit I'm getting embarrassed for you. Or you're trolling. Not worth my time.

None of that changes the fact that at that moment Mihawk no longer considers him a worthy challenge, which is what has-been means.
You only show lack of understanding and bias towards Zoro and Mihawk, no wonder you ignore Oda's own words for years...
The mental gymnastics have been exposed a long time ago and as time goes by, it won't get easier, only harder because both Mihawk and Zoro have higher and higher standards to meet. You have been fighting a losing battle from the start.

 

[Warchief Sanji D Goat]

We just need Oda to create Black Sperm in OP and nobody gonna wank swordsman anymore

 

[Jackteo]

Mihawk's title (and other people's ones) just doesn't make any sense, unless it means he was the one who defeated in a duel the previous WSS who was himself the one who defeated in a 1 vs 1 the WSS before him and so on. And in this case defining Big Mom or Kizaru as swordsman wouldn't mean Mihawk is stronger than them. Accept the uselessness of his (and Zoro's in the future) title and move on :cheers: