Powers & Abilities Why do people have trouble calling characters swordsman ?

[Ravagerblade]

so more ap, to which you still didnt explain how it would help against the tricky nature of picas df.

OMG dude Open you're eyes! More strikes = More area's that are attacked. Why the fuck should I have to explain it when it's obvious.
It's hardly tricky once you figure it out.

 

[Finalbeta]

What is the thread about exactly?

We had tons about what is a swordsman

 

[Dark Hound]

Not this againIt's simple reallyAnybody that uses sword 100% of all time and once they lost their sword, they're fodderFor example, if Mihawk doesn't have Yoru then he's fodder. People like Big Mom and Kizaru are not swordsman because they can fight without using a swordHope this clear for you guys

So Zoro isn't a swordsman ?

Law ?

Post automatically merged: Jun 4, 2020

Don't take the titles too seriously:
Is Kaido a human male? If so he's weaker than Whitebeard because Whitebeard is the strongest man.
Is whitebeard a living organism? If so he's weaker than Kaido because Kaido is the strongest organism.
Is Whitebeard a swordsman because he uses a meito?
Was Garp stronger than Whitebeard without his fruit considering he was on par with Roger, and he did not have a crippling sickness.
When WB died who did the strongest man title go to?
Was Gol a swordsman?
How did Mihawk stake claim to the title, who was the previous WSSM and when did Mihawk beat him?
Who is the second strongest swordsman, third, fourth, fifth, 10th?

Most relevantly:
Are brawlers who utilize weapons considered primarily weapon users or brawlers?
Why is hypotheical advanced kings haki, which not everyone would be able to have, considered part of pure swordsmanship, but devil fruits are not?

Who's talking about titles ?

I'm talking about what makes a swordsman. People have this mental block of what makes a swordsman in One Piece just because of WSS, Mihawk and Zoro

Post automatically merged: Jun 4, 2020

OMG dude Open you're eyes! More strikes = More area's that are attacked. Why the fuck should I have to explain it when it's obvious.
It's hardly tricky once you figure it out.

My dude

AP does not make everything. AoE was needed, therefore ISDS. Period.

 

[Zenos7]

OMG dude Open you're eyes! More strikes = More area's that are attacked. Why the fuck should I have to explain it when it's obvious.
It's hardly tricky once you figure it out.

how do more strikes help in cornering pica so he cant escape in any stone? If it would be that easy, zoro would have let elizabello use king punch on the golem?!

 

[Ravagerblade]

how do more strikes help in cornering pica so he cant escape in any stone? If it would be that easy, zoro would have let elizabello use king punch on the golem?!

Why wouldn't it? And no, Kings punch hits a wide area but takes way to long to use it effectively. Meanwhile Ashura could be used in a multiple times for alot more attacks.

 

[Albino 👑]

Theres 2 main reasons i can think about

1. The automatic placing of mihawk against all of them when they have never fought
   • Like linlin, fuji, ect
2. The fact that like 80% of the one piece world was trained and knows how to use a sword and to some they count
   • Like all the marines and many pirates like marco have been seen carrying swords
   • Kizaru himself is controversial too

 

[Zenos7]

Why wouldn't it? And no, Kings punch hits a wide area but takes way to long to use it effectively. Meanwhile Ashura could be used in a multiple times for alot more attacks.

elilzabello had king punch ready though?

 

[ShadyOjiro]

Theres 2 main reasons i can think about

1. The automatic placing of mihawk against all of them when they have never fought
   • Like linlin, fuji, ect
2. The fact that like 80% of the one piece world was trained and knows how to use a sword and to some they count
   • Like all the marines and many pirates like marco have been seen carrying swords
   • Kizaru himself is controversial too

The first point is applicable to Kaido as well but against all the characters in the verse.
But he gets a free pass....

At least Mihawk is only swordmans....

 

[Albino 👑]

The first point is applicable to Kaido as well but against all the characters in the verse.
But he gets a free pass....

At least Mihawk is only swordmans....

Imo its a bit different

Comparing what we know of all the titles and how they all attained them the situations are pretty different from what we know

1. Newgate got his title got his title because of 2 main reasons
   • Roger dying and lots of his hype came from being closest in strength to him. Moreso than any other character
   • The crazy amount of dc/aoe his fruit has to be felt across the world
2. Mihawk likely got his because of the legendary duels he had with shanks and him losing his arm
   • Something that happened 2 decades ago
   • He technically could have fought other top tier like the admirals, yonko, oden, ect but we don't have anything hinting to that yet
   • Maybe he got the title cause of his black blade tho
3. Kaido got his from the fact none of the yonko or even the marines no matter how many times they captured him or apparently lost couldn't take him down
   • We know he lost at least 7 times in his life
   • I don't consider it canon but in the ace novel he was compared to newgate to the point people where arging their titles

Tho thats only what we know know but in general i don't think titles even wb and kaidos are 100% concrete tho its possible

 

[Yukihime]

Ok wait. The swordsmen categories is complicated.

I think what counts as a swordsman is normally anyone who uses a sword. But in one piece, I think.its classified by people who specialise in only sword techniques. But then law won't be a swordsman cause he uses his devil fruit. Kizaru also uses a sword but he isn't a conventional swordsman. So maybe it's categorised as someone who uses a proper sword.

 

[Uncle Van]

There is absolutely complicated or confusing about how swordsmen work in OP. You are swordsman if you consider yourself one...simple as that. Zoro didnt think Cabaji was a swordsman cause of the circus nonsense; Cabaji had to tell Zoro he was in fact a swordsman and they had a duel. This fight proves that it doesnt matter if you use fire, foot knives, spinning tops or unicycles....it still makes you a swordsman.

The opposite happened with Daz Bones. Zoro thought Bones was a swordsman and Bones corrected him. This proves that it doesnt matter if you use a sword...if you don't consider yourself a swordsman then you're not. This brings attention to people like BM, Kizaru and Aokiji. If they dont consider themselves swordsmen then they have nothing to do with the WSS title.

Law and Fujitora were called swordsmen by Oda himself. Shanks was never called a swordsman but evidence says he is one, considering he had DUELS with Mihawk let alone the latter having interest in the former in the first place. Mihawk only has interest in swordsmen when it comes to strength and duels.

Mihawk is STRONGER than Shanks and Fujitora. Some believe that Mihawk is the weaker fighter overall cause DF powers and other abilities and whatnot but as proven by Cabaji, Kaku and Zoro himself, none of that matters.

 

[HA001]

There is absolutely complicated or confusing about how swordsmen work in OP. You are swordsman if you consider yourself one...simple as that. Zoro didnt think Cabaji was a swordsman cause of the circus nonsense; Cabaji had to tell Zoro he was in fact a swordsman and they had a duel. This fight proves that it doesnt matter if you use fire, foot knives, spinning tops or unicycles....it still makes you a swordsman.

The opposite happened with Daz Bones. Zoro thought Bones was a swordsman and Bones corrected him. This proves that it doesnt matter if you use a sword...if you don't consider yourself a swordsman then you're not. This brings attention to people like BM, Kizaru and Aokiji. If they dont consider themselves swordsmen then they have nothing to do with the WSS title.

Law and Fujitora were called swordsmen by Oda himself. Shanks was never called a swordsman but evidence says he is one, considering he had DUELS with Mihawk let alone the latter having interest in the former in the first place. Mihawk only has interest in swordsmen when it comes to strength and duels.

Mihawk is STRONGER than Shanks and Fujitora. Some believe that Mihawk is the weaker fighter overall cause DF powers and other abilities and whatnot but as proven by Cabaji, Kaku and Zoro himself, none of that matters.

Pure fax

 

[trav]

Pure fax

it disagrees with 90% of what you usually claim, mate.

 

[HA001]

it disagrees with 90% of what you usually claim, mate.

erm no it doesnt.

 

[nik87]

It comes down to one question - Are they at their best with a sword or without a sword?
Now pick one who among all those swordsmen isn't at his best with a sword. I'll wait.

 

[uyuu]

There is absolutely complicated or confusing about how swordsmen work in OP. You are swordsman if you consider yourself one...simple as that. Zoro didnt think Cabaji was a swordsman cause of the circus nonsense; Cabaji had to tell Zoro he was in fact a swordsman and they had a duel. This fight proves that it doesnt matter if you use fire, foot knives, spinning tops or unicycles....it still makes you a swordsman.

The opposite happened with Daz Bones. Zoro thought Bones was a swordsman and Bones corrected him. This proves that it doesnt matter if you use a sword...if you don't consider yourself a swordsman then you're not. This brings attention to people like BM, Kizaru and Aokiji. If they dont consider themselves swordsmen then they have nothing to do with the WSS title.

Law and Fujitora were called swordsmen by Oda himself. Shanks was never called a swordsman but evidence says he is one, considering he had DUELS with Mihawk let alone the latter having interest in the former in the first place. Mihawk only has interest in swordsmen when it comes to strength and duels.

Mihawk is STRONGER than Shanks and Fujitora. Some believe that Mihawk is the weaker fighter overall cause DF powers and other abilities and whatnot but as proven by Cabaji, Kaku and Zoro himself, none of that matters.

To consider anyone a swordsman if they call themselves as that, is too loose of a definition imo. If they dont consider themselves a swordsman but they are quite good with sword? How about Roger whom none even mention as a swordsman?

And btw how do you think about my views on swordsman and WSS?

I for one, don't find a problem with BM or even Roger classified as a swordsman.

I find the problem in defining the WSS. Imo defining:

A. One swordsman (Roger) who is unbeatable even by WB or Garp in a fight, wouldn't necessarily be the same as defining

B. the WSS.

This is partly because:

1. there is no mention of Roger as WSS, even if in the verse Roger is like number 1 in powerlevel.

2. the logic comparison between OP world and real world.

2a. In real world, anyone who is able to use a sword in combat can be called a swordsman. Mastering other skills (for example, shooting with a gun) doesn't stop that person from being a swordsman. The logic in OP is just like this, that's why i have no problem with it.

2b. But here comes the WSS title. In the real world, what is WSS? Is it a person who can use a sword and unbeatable in any fight? No. Since a weaker swordsman, can beat the WSS, if he is more skilled or stronger than that WSS in other powers. For example, the weaker swordsman can beat the WSS by shooting the WSS with a gun. It does not make the shooter into the WSS. It just makes the shooter, the victory of the fight. This is real life logic, so i assume unless it was contradicted by Oda, the logic of WSS in OP should follow real life logic of WSS.

Poiny 2b doesn't make the WSS title meaningless. This just places that title in the proper place instead of "WSS = can beat anyone" kind of wishful thinking.

---

I hope this can provide some new perspective of being a swordsman and WSS

 

[Patryipe]

One Piece is the only manga where people who fights with swords are doubted to be swordsman

Literally any other manga character who fights with swords... the fandom call them swordsman

This dude is considered a fuckin swordsman :

Now I’m not tryibg to say BM is or that the fandom is not ridiculous with all their conclusions based on nothing but still... there’s ppl who argued Fujitora was not a swordsman.

I’ve only seen this shit in One Piece fandom

I can only see two reasons : Mihawk and Zoro

1) it implies Mihawk is stronger than so-called character

2) it hypes Zoro’s dream

So they either want Mihawk to be weaker than character or to downplay Zoro’s dream and EoS strength

Literally there’s no other reason

IF Mihawk and Zoro didn’t exist people would have no problem calling any character a swordsman even Big Mom

Post automatically merged: Jun 3, 2020

@nik87 @gojo @Jo_Ndule @Light D Lamperouge @Admiral Lee Hung @Ice devil slayer @Sentinel @Zowo @Cinera @style @Gensui Sazid @ShishioIsBack @Bogard @TheAncientCenturion

It's the "ZDS".

Zoro derangement syndrome.

People are triggered by greatness of the Grandmaster so they create their headcanon safe paces.

If Shanks had the WSS title the same people would argue that everybody and their moma is swordsman and they're below Shanks by default.

 

[Fn Lucci]

Shanks challenged Mihawk on sight. He is the kinda guy who shows up to a battlefield and offers to take on any challenger. He'll show up on a Yonko ship and draw his sword. So if he was called the WSS we would see why.

Fandom: Odachi, please tell us who are swordsmen in One Piece.
Odachi:

I know I know, it's just a cover Oda did because Luffy held Nidai in one of the chapters. That's the end of it.

Spoiler

It comes down to one question - Are they at their best with a sword or without a sword?
Now pick one who among all those swordsmen isn't at his best with a sword. I'll wait.

The thing is, how would it be that without swords Linlin or Newgate are at their best? Roger's sword attack swatted away the strongest Wano samurai, and then Whitebeard engaged him evenly not by quake punching but using a Meito. Big Mom defaults to using Napoleon in actual combat as well, when she could just sit back and spam.

If we exclude DF users just because they have an advantage, what about not challenging Shanks? Oda can still say that at some point Mihawk beat Rayleigh, but so far it hasn't been suggested in any way.

 

[trav]

This brings attention to people like BM, Kizaru and Aokiji. If they dont consider themselves swordsmen then they have nothing to do with the WSS title.

this where you very adamantly disagree usually
@HA001

 

[nik87]

I know I know, it's just a cover Oda did because Luffy held Nidai in one of the chapters. That's the end of it.

I already mentioned to exclude those who pick up a sword for the lulz - Luffy.
He isnt at his best when using a sword. The only person he can cut with it is himself.

The thing is, how would it be that without swords Linlin or Newgate are at their best? Roger's sword attack swatted away the strongest Wano samurai, and then Whitebeard engaged him evenly not by quake punching but using a Meito. Big Mom defaults to using Napoleon in actual combat as well, when she could just sit back and spam.
If we exclude DF users just because they have an advantage, what about not challenging Shanks? Oda can still say that at some point Mihawk beat Rayleigh, but so far it hasn't been suggested in any way.

LinLin is at her best with a sword, she can fight barehanded the fodders and it's a necessity to not use a weapon when going against the MC since the MC cant handle swords but when she actually fights those equal to her, she sticks to a sword.
Whitebeard doesnt use a sword, it has been explained thousands of time and the manga has been clear that WB isnt a swordsman.
Roger is at his best with a sword, WB is at his best with his weapon which isnt a sword, nothing wrong there.

There is no need to challenge everyone, the titles put you above everyone else. Whitebeard didnt challenge every single man the same how Kaido didnt challenge every single creature. The 3 WSx titles are there to explain who the top dogs are. Kaido>WB>Mihawk>rest.