Powers & Abilities Why do people ignore power counters/matchups?
- Thread starter sanjikun
- Start date
I've clearly explained, Tankman/Snakeman are specialized forms. Oda only brings them out when there's a matchup problem. Luffy has used Boundman like 8 times, and T/S once.
When Luffy uses Snakeman, not only does he sacrifice power, he also sacrifices DEFENCE. All for the sake of speed. It's clear he only uses it when his main form is not compatible.
When Luffy uses Snakeman, not only does he sacrifice power, he also sacrifices DEFENCE. All for the sake of speed. It's clear he only uses it when his main form is not compatible.
Katakuri said to Luffy that he doesn't view him as inferior "anymore", which referred to him being able to see the future now (since he wasn't aware of snakeman earlier). So while in snakeman and enhanced with FS, he was going toe to toe with Katakuri for like an hour, exchanging numerous blows. With Katakuri being able to dodge various attacks from snakaman and even blitz Luffy. In the end Luffy won by a small margin with snakeman running out in the last moment. When Katakuri asked whether Luffy will come back to beat Big Mom, he said yes, for he will become the PK. Katakuri pointed out that Luffy can see pretty far into the future (which was of course only a idiom but goes to show that he acknowledged Luffy's ability to see the future, which he later demonstrated in Udon by looking 3 steps ahead into the future).
So if Snakeman post FS barely won, I doubt that pre FS Snakeman could've. Remember how Katakuri in the first round did not even allow Luffy to enter G4. With Luffy entering G4 the second time only because Katakuri's FS was off.
Luffy in DR was in Doffy's tier, and Doffy's attempt to break Law's skull made Luffy interfere in his base in a Haki clash. And Aokiji is a tier above Doffy, having the means to immobilize him without killing him. The ice spreading was just AoE at this point, since Aokiji had no physical contact with Doffy, but instead just spreading his ice.
How did Doffy get free from the ice? So either
1) he was frozen to the core (Buffalo disagrees), but in this case he cannot physically break out of a frozen state
2) Doffy guarded himself with Haki to prevent the ice from reaching the core (which Jozu could've done as well, hence Aokiji pointed out "you got distracted")
3) Aokiji himself decided to not freeze him to the core.
So if Snakeman post FS barely won, I doubt that pre FS Snakeman could've. Remember how Katakuri in the first round did not even allow Luffy to enter G4. With Luffy entering G4 the second time only because Katakuri's FS was off.
When someone is about to murder my best friend in front of my eyes, I know I only "superficially" stop that person.
Look at that superficial attack covering that entire side of the island and spilling way out into the ocean
What's funny is that Aokiji's attack on Doffy seemed 10x more powerful than the one on Jozu, because Doflamingo was actually attacking and not just standing still.
Look at that superficial attack covering that entire side of the island and spilling way out into the ocean
What's funny is that Aokiji's attack on Doffy seemed 10x more powerful than the one on Jozu, because Doflamingo was actually attacking and not just standing still.
How did Doffy get free from the ice? So either
1) he was frozen to the core (Buffalo disagrees), but in this case he cannot physically break out of a frozen state
2) Doffy guarded himself with Haki to prevent the ice from reaching the core (which Jozu could've done as well, hence Aokiji pointed out "you got distracted")
3) Aokiji himself decided to not freeze him to the core.
Wrong. We can't consider "unlimited Gear 4" as "Luffy" because unlimited Snakeman would have beaten Katakuri from the get go, and Luffy would be stronger than him.
That battle was won by Law and Luffy. You needed Top 2/3 Supernovas to take him down. Even after Gear 4 was over, he was still holding his stomach and repairing organs from Gamma Knife
That battle was won by Law and Luffy. You needed Top 2/3 Supernovas to take him down. Even after Gear 4 was over, he was still holding his stomach and repairing organs from Gamma Knife
Do you realize how bullshit your reasoning is? You're pretty much saying Aokiji has a "special Ice Time" just for Doflamingo.
Mate, Ice Time is Ice Time. Parasite is Parasite. There are no special Ice Times for Doffy or special parasites for Luffy to break out of. On both occasions, Oda showed Doffy >>> Jozu.
It was this moment too, where Oda showed Boundman >>> Yonko Commanders
Mate, Ice Time is Ice Time. Parasite is Parasite. There are no special Ice Times for Doffy or special parasites for Luffy to break out of. On both occasions, Oda showed Doffy >>> Jozu.
It was this moment too, where Oda showed Boundman >>> Yonko Commanders
Do you realize how bullshit your reasoning is? You're pretty much saying Aokiji has a "special Ice Time" just for Doflamingo.
Mate, Ice Time is Ice Time. Parasite is Parasite. There are no special Ice Times for Doffy or special parasites for Luffy to break out of. On both occasions, Oda showed Doffy >>> Jozu.
It was this moment too, where Oda showed Boundman >>> Yonko Commanders
Mate, Ice Time is Ice Time. Parasite is Parasite. There are no special Ice Times for Doffy or special parasites for Luffy to break out of. On both occasions, Oda showed Doffy >>> Jozu.
It was this moment too, where Oda showed Boundman >>> Yonko Commanders
Technically, ice time is Aokiji touching his opponent to freeze him to the core.
Another technique for long range is "ice time capsule", which Aokiji used to immobilize Saul's leg, to then proceed to freeze him to the core with Ice time through physical contact.
What did he do against Doffy? Standing behind him with his hands in the pockets and spreading ice across a wide area Doffy happened to be a part of.
And then again, if it's the same ice time, how did Doffy survive it? We have Buffalo with tears in the eyes being glad Doffy was not frozen to the core. So if it was "the same ice time", it just means Doffy could shield himself with Haki.
We agree that Aokiji is a tier above Doffy, right? Or at least that he is stronger. Yet, Aokiji needed distraction to apply ice time to Jozu. If the distraction wasn't needed, Aokiji would not have pointed it out by saying "you just looked away".
So if Aokiji (stronger than Doffy) explicitly points out he froze Jozu due to distraction, how comes parasite to an off guard Jozu is a proof of Doffy being on another level? Imagine Sugar touched Jozu in that process like she touched Kyros.
Another technique for long range is "ice time capsule", which Aokiji used to immobilize Saul's leg, to then proceed to freeze him to the core with Ice time through physical contact.
What did he do against Doffy? Standing behind him with his hands in the pockets and spreading ice across a wide area Doffy happened to be a part of.
And then again, if it's the same ice time, how did Doffy survive it? We have Buffalo with tears in the eyes being glad Doffy was not frozen to the core. So if it was "the same ice time", it just means Doffy could shield himself with Haki.
We agree that Aokiji is a tier above Doffy, right? Or at least that he is stronger. Yet, Aokiji needed distraction to apply ice time to Jozu. If the distraction wasn't needed, Aokiji would not have pointed it out by saying "you just looked away".
So if Aokiji (stronger than Doffy) explicitly points out he froze Jozu due to distraction, how comes parasite to an off guard Jozu is a proof of Doffy being on another level? Imagine Sugar touched Jozu in that process like she touched Kyros.
Dude, have you heard the expression, "head and shoulders above" someone?
That wasn't an expression. That LITERALLY happened.
That entire scene was written to show Crocodile's arrogance. Croc was struggling with Jozu, and Doffy effortlessly stopped him. Yet, Croc still kept running his mouth off to a guy who was clearly stronger than him, asking him to be his subordinate.
Mate, there is no "core" Ice Time and "non-core" Ice Time. Ice Time is the same shit. Those who aren't strong enough will succumb to it. Those are strong enough won't. That's it.
Aokiji is not hiding a special version of Ice Time in his pocket, just in case.
That wasn't an expression. That LITERALLY happened.
That entire scene was written to show Crocodile's arrogance. Croc was struggling with Jozu, and Doffy effortlessly stopped him. Yet, Croc still kept running his mouth off to a guy who was clearly stronger than him, asking him to be his subordinate.
Mate, there is no "core" Ice Time and "non-core" Ice Time. Ice Time is the same shit. Those who aren't strong enough will succumb to it. Those are strong enough won't. That's it.
Aokiji is not hiding a special version of Ice Time in his pocket, just in case.
Already did, there was no portrayal of Doflamingo > Kuma.
Okay, Kuma is Dragon's right hand man BUT he is apparently still weaker than Doflamingo because of him apparently having "better portrayal", lmao.
But let's look at your reasons:
It's exactly that, frozen bounties.
We neither know the circumstances why Kuma got this much bounty nor do we know how would this change if he was not a Shichibukai.
Once again, whilst Doflamingo had his own arc worth of 100 chapters + flashback of his childhood, the rising of his crew and his criminal activities, we got nothing from Kuma.
Doflamingo's superior bounty can be explained with his activity and how much the WG views him as a danger - and for obvious reasons, Doflamingo can obviously be considered very dangerous.
Kuma is that kind of character who was one of the few easily soloing the Pre-TS straw hats without efforts and while restricted. He is that kind of character who had to be taken out mentally since he is that powerful whilst we saw everything from Doflamingo; his skillset, his haki and his freaking awakening - and that's still not convincing enough to put him above Kuma, lmfao.
Yeah, and now are you going to claim "Doflamingo > Prime Moria" as well because of this ridiculous reason?
We don't even know the original version of Tank Man since it was its stuffed version - and if Cracker kept fighting with his usual tactic, Tank Man wouldn't counter him that hard either. Hence it was Cracker's own stupidity which cost him the fight, not the match-up itself.
He could simply wait till Tank Man runs out.
Snake Man is faster than the other forms but we know that Katakuri recognized its unpredictable moves quite fast and dodged them just fine, that was FS Snake Man btw.
Luffy simply needed FS to match Katakuri, regardless of Snake Man.
Snake Man would have worked against Doflamingo simply the same way; even more effective since Snake Man would absolutely prevent Doflamingo by using Awakening.
Luffy's G4th is situational, that's true - and that was also his weakness. He wasn't able to change his forms mid-battle, perhaps this will be different this time and we will see Luffy using Tank Man/Snake Man/Bound Man against Kaido on several occasions although Kaido is simply a brawler as well.
There is no real matchup problem if both characters are brawlers, you can argue for DD or Cracker but definitely not Katakuri. Heck, their powers literally mirrors with each other, that's why they fought at the mirror world. Their entire match-up was perfect, Luffy simply used two different G4th forms to fight Katakuri back.
Okay, Kuma is Dragon's right hand man BUT he is apparently still weaker than Doflamingo because of him apparently having "better portrayal", lmao.
But let's look at your reasons:
It's exactly that, frozen bounties.
We neither know the circumstances why Kuma got this much bounty nor do we know how would this change if he was not a Shichibukai.
Once again, whilst Doflamingo had his own arc worth of 100 chapters + flashback of his childhood, the rising of his crew and his criminal activities, we got nothing from Kuma.
Doflamingo's superior bounty can be explained with his activity and how much the WG views him as a danger - and for obvious reasons, Doflamingo can obviously be considered very dangerous.
Kuma is that kind of character who was one of the few easily soloing the Pre-TS straw hats without efforts and while restricted. He is that kind of character who had to be taken out mentally since he is that powerful whilst we saw everything from Doflamingo; his skillset, his haki and his freaking awakening - and that's still not convincing enough to put him above Kuma, lmfao.
Yeah, and now are you going to claim "Doflamingo > Prime Moria" as well because of this ridiculous reason?
We don't even know the original version of Tank Man since it was its stuffed version - and if Cracker kept fighting with his usual tactic, Tank Man wouldn't counter him that hard either. Hence it was Cracker's own stupidity which cost him the fight, not the match-up itself.
He could simply wait till Tank Man runs out.
Snake Man is faster than the other forms but we know that Katakuri recognized its unpredictable moves quite fast and dodged them just fine, that was FS Snake Man btw.
Luffy simply needed FS to match Katakuri, regardless of Snake Man.
Snake Man would have worked against Doflamingo simply the same way; even more effective since Snake Man would absolutely prevent Doflamingo by using Awakening.
Luffy's G4th is situational, that's true - and that was also his weakness. He wasn't able to change his forms mid-battle, perhaps this will be different this time and we will see Luffy using Tank Man/Snake Man/Bound Man against Kaido on several occasions although Kaido is simply a brawler as well.
There is no real matchup problem if both characters are brawlers, you can argue for DD or Cracker but definitely not Katakuri. Heck, their powers literally mirrors with each other, that's why they fought at the mirror world. Their entire match-up was perfect, Luffy simply used two different G4th forms to fight Katakuri back.
Ice Time ignores durability. If Kaido gives Aokiji a free shot, Aokiji will freeze him to the core and shatter him. On the other hand, if you are on guard and know of his abilities, you can shield yourself by covering your body with Haki.
It's not a matter of "if you are strong enough it won't work".
It's not a matter of "if you are strong enough it won't work".
In my opinion he has several options, with Zangiri being the most obvious, but I believe Kuri could simply use Power Mochi in order to hit the spots not protected by the shields without Cracker even noticing too, as he did against Boundman.
The biscuit soldiers are hard, but without Cracker applying haki to them and the shields, they aren't as hard to break, since Cracker even used his shields in combination with haki against G3 and a Hawk gatling.
I give every Yc1 the benefit of the doub't due to portrayal and since they all seem to be a lot more versatile than other Yc.
Kuri is undoubtedly one of the most versatile characters in the enitre manga
King hasn't even fought yet and we already know he's capable of flying, likely sword slashes, hence Aoe and fire related abilitys.
and so on...
Queen maybe, he is a what 60t dinosaur after all? And he does seem to be closer to King than Jack.
Jack definitely not, he might be able to outlast it, or get up quickly due to Awakening, but based on his showings he would get molly whooped. In comparision to Ashura, Neko, Inu, Jack looked like a turtle in comparision to all of them...
Cracker's infinite soldiers work only as good as against Luffy, against a specific group of people-> hence a counter
Meanwhile Kuri's fs works against everyone except top tiers and other fs user...
We know that nothing suggets Cracker's peers as Jozu, Jack or Queen are weaker by any means, they might not get past Cracker's soldiers, hence eventually lose to Cracker, but might win against other Yc, who in exchange could win against Cracker....
A Quote that should be more valued.
Based on your logic, nothing is a counter, Enel simply should've had better haki or physical stats to beat Luffy, since Luffy only countered one thing, his devil fruit.
I mentioned other examples, who have better means to deal with Cracker's soldiers and none of them is objectively stronger than G4 Boumdman.
Also I never said it's a Enel/Luffy scenario, since yes technically it's possible for Luffy to bypass the soldiers, if he's strong enough, unlike Enel vs Luffy's rubber, but that only works for Luffy if he's a top tier, or has a top tier abilitys as future sight..
The biscuit soldiers are hard, but without Cracker applying haki to them and the shields, they aren't as hard to break, since Cracker even used his shields in combination with haki against G3 and a Hawk gatling.
I give every Yc1 the benefit of the doub't due to portrayal and since they all seem to be a lot more versatile than other Yc.
Kuri is undoubtedly one of the most versatile characters in the enitre manga
King hasn't even fought yet and we already know he's capable of flying, likely sword slashes, hence Aoe and fire related abilitys.
and so on...
Queen maybe, he is a what 60t dinosaur after all? And he does seem to be closer to King than Jack.
Jack definitely not, he might be able to outlast it, or get up quickly due to Awakening, but based on his showings he would get molly whooped. In comparision to Ashura, Neko, Inu, Jack looked like a turtle in comparision to all of them...
Cracker's infinite soldiers work only as good as against Luffy, against a specific group of people-> hence a counter
Meanwhile Kuri's fs works against everyone except top tiers and other fs user...
We know that nothing suggets Cracker's peers as Jozu, Jack or Queen are weaker by any means, they might not get past Cracker's soldiers, hence eventually lose to Cracker, but might win against other Yc, who in exchange could win against Cracker....
Based on your logic, nothing is a counter, Enel simply should've had better haki or physical stats to beat Luffy, since Luffy only countered one thing, his devil fruit.
I mentioned other examples, who have better means to deal with Cracker's soldiers and none of them is objectively stronger than G4 Boumdman.
Also I never said it's a Enel/Luffy scenario, since yes technically it's possible for Luffy to bypass the soldiers, if he's strong enough, unlike Enel vs Luffy's rubber, but that only works for Luffy if he's a top tier, or has a top tier abilitys as future sight..
Last edited:
There actually is plot circumstance that can be used to discredit using Aokiji as a metric to up play Doffy. We have legitimate reason to assume Aokiji intended to finish off Jozu but none to assume he wanted to finish Doffy.
Aokiji still seems to possess at least an understanding and empathy for how his actions effect the Government. It’s highly unlikely that he would’ve taken an opportunity to finish a Warlord off the way he did to Jozu. He should know how much trouble that would cause for the a Government and likely restrained himself just to avoid that possibility. He didn’t even want the WG to know that he showed up to Punk Hazard, after all.
Against Jozu though? Literally zero reason to assume he was showing any mercy.
Aokiji still seems to possess at least an understanding and empathy for how his actions effect the Government. It’s highly unlikely that he would’ve taken an opportunity to finish a Warlord off the way he did to Jozu. He should know how much trouble that would cause for the a Government and likely restrained himself just to avoid that possibility. He didn’t even want the WG to know that he showed up to Punk Hazard, after all.
Against Jozu though? Literally zero reason to assume he was showing any mercy.
In my opinion he has several options, with Zangiri being the most obvious, but I believe Kuri could simply use Power Mochi in order to hit the spots not protected by the shields without Cracker even noticing too, as he did against Boundman.
The biscuit soldiers are hard, but without Cracker applying haki to them and the shields, they aren't as hard to break, since Cracker even used his shields in combination with haki against G3 and a Hawk gatling.
I give every Yc1 the benefit of the doub't due to portrayal and since they all seem to be a lot more versatile than other Yc.
Kuri is undoubtedly one of the most versatile characters in the enitre manga
King hasn't even fought yet and we already know he's capable of flying, likely sword slashes, hence Aoe and fire related abilitys.
and so on...
Queen maybe, he is a what 60t dinosaur after all? And he does seem to be closer to King than Jack.
Jack definitely not, he might be able to outlast it, or get up quickly due to Awakening, but based on his showings he would get molly whooped. In comparision to Ashura, Neko, Inu, Jack looked like a turtle in comparision to all of them...
Cracker's infinite soldiers work only as good as against Luffy, against a specific group of people-> hence a counter
Meanwhile Kuri's fs works against everyone except top tiers and other fs user...
We know that nothing suggets Cracker's peers as Jozu, Jack or Queen are weaker by any means, they might not get past Cracker's soldiers, hence eventually lose to Cracker, but might win against other Yc, who in exchange could win against Cracker....
A Quote that is should be more valued.
Based on your logic, nothing is a counter, Enel simply should've had better haki or physical stats to beat Luffy, since Luffy only countered one thing, his devil fruit.
I mentioned other examples, who have better means to deal with Cracker's soldiers and none of them is objectively stronger than G4 Boumdman.
Also I never said it's a Enel/Luffy scenario, since yes technically it's possible for Luffy to bypass the soldiers, if he's strong enough, unlike Enel vs Luffy's rubber, but that only works for Luffy if he's a top tier, or has a top tier abilitys as future sight..
The biscuit soldiers are hard, but without Cracker applying haki to them and the shields, they aren't as hard to break, since Cracker even used his shields in combination with haki against G3 and a Hawk gatling.
I give every Yc1 the benefit of the doub't due to portrayal and since they all seem to be a lot more versatile than other Yc.
Kuri is undoubtedly one of the most versatile characters in the enitre manga
King hasn't even fought yet and we already know he's capable of flying, likely sword slashes, hence Aoe and fire related abilitys.
and so on...
Queen maybe, he is a what 60t dinosaur after all? And he does seem to be closer to King than Jack.
Jack definitely not, he might be able to outlast it, or get up quickly due to Awakening, but based on his showings he would get molly whooped. In comparision to Ashura, Neko, Inu, Jack looked like a turtle in comparision to all of them...
Cracker's infinite soldiers work only as good as against Luffy, against a specific group of people-> hence a counter
Meanwhile Kuri's fs works against everyone except top tiers and other fs user...
We know that nothing suggets Cracker's peers as Jozu, Jack or Queen are weaker by any means, they might not get past Cracker's soldiers, hence eventually lose to Cracker, but might win against other Yc, who in exchange could win against Cracker....
Based on your logic, nothing is a counter, Enel simply should've had better haki or physical stats to beat Luffy, since Luffy only countered one thing, his devil fruit.
I mentioned other examples, who have better means to deal with Cracker's soldiers and none of them is objectively stronger than G4 Boumdman.
Also I never said it's a Enel/Luffy scenario, since yes technically it's possible for Luffy to bypass the soldiers, if he's strong enough, unlike Enel vs Luffy's rubber, but that only works for Luffy if he's a top tier, or has a top tier abilitys as future sight..
Besides that, yep pretty good summary.
What. Lol. Luffy was breaking Cracker's soldiers by the droves (the same as breaking through his original armor), but it was a battle between G4 punching stamina (including CoA) vs. Cracker's advanced DF stamina, basically the stamina in using his DF to create more soldiers and repair them. One can say these are very different reserves of stamina, and in any case the statement "luffy never had enough attack power to break the biscuits" is nonsense.
Edit: I think some are confused by a pic of him not breaking through a single or several soldiers all at once (though there may actually be another pic like that): that is because Cracker's shield actually takes a punch on its own, so it's roughly two punches per soldier. (Though a shield might actually take more than the body in some scenes.)
Edit: I think some are confused by a pic of him not breaking through a single or several soldiers all at once (though there may actually be another pic like that): that is because Cracker's shield actually takes a punch on its own, so it's roughly two punches per soldier. (Though a shield might actually take more than the body in some scenes.)
Last edited:
J
Sanjikun doesn't realise his own demise
Doffy and Luffy CoC actually matched 2/3x yet he says Doffy was above Luffy lol Doffy was 2 tier above LOL
Unlike WB & BM,
doffy CoC has never proven that he was another level , his only time he matched someone CoC was vs Luffy ( weake than WCI luffy.
Doffy and Luffy CoC actually matched 2/3x yet he says Doffy was above Luffy lol Doffy was 2 tier above LOL
Unlike WB & BM,
doffy CoC has never proven that he was another level , his only time he matched someone CoC was vs Luffy ( weake than WCI luffy.
Last edited by a moderator:
J
Do you realize how bullshit your reasoning is? You're pretty much saying Aokiji has a "special Ice Time" just for Doflamingo.
Mate, Ice Time is Ice Time. Parasite is Parasite. There are no special Ice Times for Doffy or special parasites for Luffy to break out of. On both occasions, Oda showed Doffy >>> Jozu.
It was this moment too, where Oda showed Boundman >>> Yonko Commanders
Mate, Ice Time is Ice Time. Parasite is Parasite. There are no special Ice Times for Doffy or special parasites for Luffy to break out of. On both occasions, Oda showed Doffy >>> Jozu.
It was this moment too, where Oda showed Boundman >>> Yonko Commanders
You think having AP meajs everything in battle
Boundman was never above Cracker, that's why it was stalemated
And lost to Katakuri.
Unlimited boundman cant beat Katakuri, it lacks FS and speed
Unlimited snakeman still needs FS to connect properly.
It took Tankman full version + Rain + cracker own biscuits to beat Cracker
Cracker : Strong CoA, Good CoO, Lethal, high defence and great combat & reaction speed, low endurance.
Luffy : Strong AP, good CoO and CoA, high endurance, high offence.
It was a even battle with each having their weaknesses.
It was actually Luffy who had advantage in that battle, stop twisting the manga fact
Luffy had 11 hrs of Advantage due to Rain and eating food (biscuits)
Cracker had none! His skills are just too quick and good to counter Brawlers who lack enough power and speed to reach his main body
Unless the gap between two opponents is >= 2-3 Tiers in difference (i.e. Big Mom and Brook), power counter and matchups matter and MATTER A LOT. No, Enel and Luffy isn't the only case of this. It happens ALL the time.
For Luffy vs. Kaido, I still see people saying Luffy can't solo Kaido because of Kaido's level, while ignoring that Luffy specifically trained to GET A DIRECT COUNTER to Kaido. If Luffy is calm enough to use Future Sight properly (and avoids being one shot) and has advanced CoA, he is around Fujitora's level. And he has a DIRECT counter to Kaido, so what's stopping him from beating Kaido 1 v. 1? Luffy half the time isn't at the "level" of the guys he beats.
It was the same shit with Cracker. Katakuri states he = Luffy and their CoC clash = equal. Yet, people still kept saying he was <= Cracker, and a few FS flashes made him Katakuri level. Hoooooleeeeee. Cracker had a matchup advantage against Luffy. That's it. If Cracker was really = Gear 4, he wouldn't be hiding like a bitch behind his soldiers.
Enel isn't the only example. Luffy was doing Yonko Commander level shit in Alabasta because of "water" vs. "sand"
He clearly wasn't Yonko Commander level pre-TS, because even in MF he stated Ace was above him. But he used a DIRECT COUNTER (water/blood) to beat a guy stronger than him.
For Luffy vs. Kaido, I still see people saying Luffy can't solo Kaido because of Kaido's level, while ignoring that Luffy specifically trained to GET A DIRECT COUNTER to Kaido. If Luffy is calm enough to use Future Sight properly (and avoids being one shot) and has advanced CoA, he is around Fujitora's level. And he has a DIRECT counter to Kaido, so what's stopping him from beating Kaido 1 v. 1? Luffy half the time isn't at the "level" of the guys he beats.
It was the same shit with Cracker. Katakuri states he = Luffy and their CoC clash = equal. Yet, people still kept saying he was <= Cracker, and a few FS flashes made him Katakuri level. Hoooooleeeeee. Cracker had a matchup advantage against Luffy. That's it. If Cracker was really = Gear 4, he wouldn't be hiding like a bitch behind his soldiers.
Enel isn't the only example. Luffy was doing Yonko Commander level shit in Alabasta because of "water" vs. "sand"
He clearly wasn't Yonko Commander level pre-TS, because even in MF he stated Ace was above him. But he used a DIRECT COUNTER (water/blood) to beat a guy stronger than him.