Yes the Sweet commanders are all on the same general level (they are all solid high tiers) with Katakuri being the cream of the crop. It’s easy to forget that Luffy also struggled with Cracker & defeated him together with Nami & the homies, with Nami’s clima tact heavily countering his biscuit soldiers. That said, I do agree with you that Katakuri’s FS hax sets him apart from the other Sweet Commanders but what exactly has Who’s Who done to put him over the rest of the flying six?
I’m gonna assume you’re just being willfully ignorant with your ‘what feats do the dinos have’ statement coz I doubt you are that slow😅. Regardless, I’ll re-iterate again, the dinos have durability hax (they are literally mini Kaidos in a sense) and this particular characteristic has been emphasized time & time again since their very introduction in the arc & we got to see just how ridiculous it is through Ulti’s feats in particular with her tanking Linlin’s maser canon (the strongest attack she has ever shown in the series). This characteristic is something that neither Who’s Who or Maria possess.
Sorry I didn’t see whatever it is you think that you disproved but it doesn’t really matter as I’m not interested in going into a long winded debate on it.
Point I made with that post is simple. Because you think that Jinbe is stronger than the original Adult Trio doesn’t automatically make Who’s Who the strongest Tobi Roppo simply because he fought Jinbe. On Enies Lobby most people would agree that Franky was stronger than Chopper prior to the climax of the arc yet Chopper faced a stronger opponent than Franky’s 🤷🏾♂️. It isn’t a matter of opinion this is manga fact.
So the Luffy that fought Franky on W7 was the same Luffy that fought Lucci on Enies Lobby
. He didn’t, I don’t know, require a power up to beat him, he just solo’d Lucci in base?
and yh I’m sure I’m prolly remembering incorrectly but Luffy also mid-diffed Blueno in base didn’t he?
A fair point I think you make tho is the ting about a character’s last opponent not necessarily determining how strong they are. Though this how Oda typically does it in major arcs. That said however it is also important to note that a very strong character joining the crew doesn’t definitively put him over other members he appeared to be stronger than prior to joining abs we have precedent for this. Case in point, Franky & Chopper on Enies Lobby. (I.e. Robin’s case here in this arc is actually very similar to Chopper’s in that both got an overwhelming PU that completely decimated their opponent).
It is also important to note that the F6 are not linear with regards to the abilities they possess. Even though Jinbe beat Who’s Who comfortably, Who’s Who does not possess the characteristic trait of toughness the dinos have which make them incredibly harder to beat. For instance would a gargoyle punch put Ulti down? I think most will agree that it is very unlikely.
Just to put it out there, I do acknowledge that Jinbe is very strong what I disagree with is dismissing the original Adult Trio and definitely putting them beneath him because of it. Particularly since they fought an opponent of the same calibre as his. I think most will agree that the Adult Trio turned out to be a lot stronger than the lot of us gave them credit for coming into this arc 🙏🏿
The struggle of Luffy vs Cracker and vs Katakuri are fundamentally different. Against Cracker he was confronted with a significant match-up issue that prevented him from applying his strength, against Katakuri the latter was literally better in every regard but one, attack power, and thus pushed Luffy to grow within the fight. It´s like comparing Don Krieg to Arlong.
Katakuri was immensely superior to Cracker, both from general ballpark/level viewpoint, but especially in the direct confrontation.
And i don´t mean this in an asshole way, but you are using hax wrongly, at least from a RPG standpoint which comes pretty close to talking about powers of One Piece.
WW hadspeed, lethality, variety of attack patterns. Sasaki was a slow ass one trick pony that literally got hurt by Franky´s sword attacks that fishmen fodder in Fishman Island could dodge, Ulti also one trick pony but at least she had some speed and of course the durability was good but attack power meh, P1 was taken out too early to show something significant and i don´t want to use the portrayal of him being the youngest and the one getting bullied to determine something, if you wanted to push it, you could though, Black Maria physically weak, very slow but at least she had also a variety of attack patterns, from poison to fire to weapon, and her webs are dangerous for CQC fighters, as we could see with Sanji.
WW is the best in at least three categories, whereas the others have one in which they excel. And while the gap between them and WW is not as big as Cracker and Katakuri, it´s still significant enough to take note of.
To be also honest and transparent, part of WW´s feats, at least in my opinion how to judge them, should also be in context against who he is performing those feats against. Jinbe´s Haki, the one he used before his final move (which was like a next step almost), was hardly penetrated by Big Mom (which made the F6´s equals, Pero and Daifuku, not believe their eyes btw) and held up against Akainu to a certain extent, and WW managed to penetrate that (with Fang Pistol, which Jinbe consequently then dodged) until Jinbe got completely serious.
Yeah we also saw that with Sasaki. I am not applying Ulti´s feat, which i never argued against, to all dinosaurs. Sasaki was nearly taken out by Gaon Cannon. And once again, that´s literally the opposite of hax.
You argued with Franky, Chopper and Luffy, and that Franky was once equal to Luffy (in W7, which was baseless) to fighting a similar strength character like Chopper was, and that hence his past feat of fighting Luffy is not the decisive factor anymore, but the fact that they fought a similarly strong character.
Which was nonsense considering Franky went out of fighting Fukuro much better than Chopper did vs Kumadori, Chopper nearly died based on his own ability and Franky needed to save him. And here you are repeating it again, and it is still nonsense, not a fact.
I am not thinking Jinbe is stronger, he has proven it several times, and fighting a similar strength opponent has never lead to the assumption that the characters who have done so are of similar strength, and you have failed thus far to provide any reason why it is supposed to be the case except you want to believe it´s the case. And this is regardless of whether someone believes that WW is superior to BM and Sasaki (which he undeniably was btw but does not have to be for the point) because it is equally undeniable that Jinbe completely outclassed him (low to mid, just like Luffy vs Blueno after he used G2) and that Franky and Robin had to give their all and achieved a last second victory.
Regarding the Franky and Luffy stuff, i like that you gleefully fail to address different point that are inconvenient for you but let´s go once again:
1) Luffy and Franky never fought to a draw, they literally had two or three exchanges, then the Galley-La shipwrights intervened.
2) Luffy used G2 to low/mid diff Blueno, before he was evenly matched with him and admitted he can´t beat him without G2 (which can be interpreted in different ways, for example fast enough to reach Robin), he was even about to use G3 until Blueno fainted.
3) Luffy, Chopper and Franky fought and beat a similar strength guy (at least in douriki, one should also regard their individual abilities they excelled at but for the sake of the point, let´s say they were completely equal) with Blueno, Kumadori and Fukuro. If we apply your train of thought and logic, the difficulty with which they accomplished this should not matter, they beat a similar guy and that´s it.
Yet, after beating Blueno, Luffy literally proved that that train of thought is completely nonsense, because he went and matched a guy, and ultimately beat a guy, that both Franky and Chopper could not even dream to touch at that point, as both literally admit, hence the pages i posted above.
4) Whether Luffy had more in W7 or not is irrelevant to the point you are making since the crucial aspect happened in Enies Lobby, meaning Chopper, Franky and Luffy beating their respective opponents like Robin, Franky and Jinbe did in this arc. And yes, Luffy had those abilities already in W7, as he pointed out that he thought about it after the loss against Aokiji.
So, i know you were trying to be funny with the emojis, i would prefer you trying to stand on point though, the point you yourself tried to make and that was disproven.
And, to further clarify this, regardless of whether Luffy needed to prove it since he literally destroyed Blueno, a similar strength combatant as Kumadori and Fukuro, Luffy did prove his vast superiority over Franky and Chopper shortly after against Lucci, something Jinbe has not yet done so in this arc
considering his victory has happened 3 chapters ago. But Jinbe has proven his superiority before, something that for some reason, you fail to acknowledge.
Jinbe had his feats in Impel Down, Marineford, WCI and this arc. He did fight a commander level Ace (who was already a pirate for 3 years) 5 days to a draw, he did match Big Mom and made the F6´s contemporaries in strength not believe their eyes and got away with a slight bruise to his hand against Akainu and the list goes on. These things do not magically vanish, just like Luffy matching and beating Lucci did not vanish, otherwise you would need to argue, based on the people they fought before, Luffy = Franky = Chopper.
Chopper and Franky, that argument still does not work considering their respective condition after their fights.
And yes, while i do agree that someone should not be automatically be considered above until we have something substantial to compare, Franky and Robin unfortunately did not show something to deny that notion.
But just from Jinbe´s hype and portrayal, he could also be considered stronger than Zoro and Sanji, which for Zoro definitely is not the case anymore, and probably for Sanji neither, so the point you made here is at least viable in the context of these three.
Fighting a similar strength character is irrelevant, the manner and the feats you showcase in doing so is relevant and that´s what´s ultimately deciding superiority, not roundabout and far-fetched logic.
And i will also have you know that i was actually someone who saw them as capable of beating F6, as i have pointed out here in several threads, case in point the posts in two threads i made far before match-ups became obvious.
And my insistence on Jinbe´s superiority is by no means to undermine the mid trio, they are legitimate mid tiers and can match up to veterans, F6 or Vice Admirals respectively. Jinbe is just that much stronger though and in yonkou commander sphere, a level the mid trio might get at the end of the series.