Character Discussion Why Post-time skip Luffy is trash (Wano)
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Luffy has always been like that and so have his fights.
Crocodile was always an issue due to him not being able to hit him, he was comparable to Lucci.
Enel fight was bad tho, I agree. Way too much plot armor and plot convenience. Moriah too.
I guess you are kinda right, it was always cringy but it literally ruined Katakuri fight. Zoro can save Kaido fight.
It is though, just take Crocodile. He underestimated Luffy 3 rounds in a row. Left Luffy to die two times and Luffy miraculously survived both the times through sheer luck.
Hell, the way he even survived the second round was one of the biggest miracles in an OP fight lmao.
If you don't like Luffy or his fights now, you don't like them in general or are just burnt out from weekly reading. There's not much of a difference between them before or after the timeskip.
Hell, the way he even survived the second round was one of the biggest miracles in an OP fight lmao.
If you don't like Luffy or his fights now, you don't like them in general or are just burnt out from weekly reading. There's not much of a difference between them before or after the timeskip.
the DS anime was an incentive obviously.. people would buy more volumes due to the movie its like an advert to the primary source material which is the manga.. and its a logical fact that the fans grew in numbers as the anime premiered as well and WE ALL KNOW THE HYPE AROUND THE ANIME..
which gave it more exposure hence more sales precisely (check the link out) .. with more exposure different audiences from different mangas would be attracted to it hence the growth in sales, but the same doesn't apply to onepiece that is long running has a fairly loyal and consistent fanbase and is widely known throughout the planet and compare to that short running series (DS) new audience (especially of this gen) would rather prefer something short in addition to the current trends of seasonal anime.. this stereotypical mentality makes them avoid a long running series like OP which directly affects the rate at which people become a part of this community and the sales .. so onepiece is highly carried by its consistent and loyal fans and unlike DS who has experienced exponential growth suddenly and its certainly not like it will continue selling this high.. would gradually decrease to its neutral state or the line of best fit you may say ( a margin of approximation of something in this case volume sales per year)
and about the reasons.. they are pretty logical actually...they may even threaten weekly shonen jump due to manga being digitized
but the graphs kinda prove how consistent onepiece has been with its latest volumes.. with, plus its not like it had stagnated the newer audience gradually pours in..
Other long running mangas like Naruto and Bleach promote people's (their newer audiences) interests towards Onepiece which is a similar but a Bigger title in the market than them..
so its very interconnected and complex Machenism but what proven is that OP is goated and has loyal fanbase which keeps growing day by day.
which gave it more exposure hence more sales precisely (check the link out) .. with more exposure different audiences from different mangas would be attracted to it hence the growth in sales, but the same doesn't apply to onepiece that is long running has a fairly loyal and consistent fanbase and is widely known throughout the planet and compare to that short running series (DS) new audience (especially of this gen) would rather prefer something short in addition to the current trends of seasonal anime.. this stereotypical mentality makes them avoid a long running series like OP which directly affects the rate at which people become a part of this community and the sales .. so onepiece is highly carried by its consistent and loyal fans and unlike DS who has experienced exponential growth suddenly and its certainly not like it will continue selling this high.. would gradually decrease to its neutral state or the line of best fit you may say ( a margin of approximation of something in this case volume sales per year)
and about the reasons.. they are pretty logical actually...they may even threaten weekly shonen jump due to manga being digitized
but the graphs kinda prove how consistent onepiece has been with its latest volumes.. with, plus its not like it had stagnated the newer audience gradually pours in..
Other long running mangas like Naruto and Bleach promote people's (their newer audiences) interests towards Onepiece which is a similar but a Bigger title in the market than them..
so its very interconnected and complex Machenism but what proven is that OP is goated and has loyal fanbase which keeps growing day by day.
S
1. Forget about Zoro's history with Wano, Hiyori, Kuina, Ryuma, Tama, and Yasuie? Zoro was and is hell bent on destroying Kaido on behalf of everyone in Wano. Zoro has more reason to defeat Kaido. Also, Zoro is a character based on strength, why shouldn't he want to defeat a so called "strongest".
2. You can't even accept how shitty the process was. Luffy got hit HEAD-ON by an attack meant to put him out of commission. Oda made it clear early in the fight, that Luffy should avoid these. Yet, when it does happen, instead of being put out of the fight, he gains an ability to allow him to clash evenly with Kaido in base. Not to mention the haki strength and speed inconsistency used to achieve this.
3. Yes, they were unsure of their reason to fight. Go read it friend.
4. Luffy not owning up to his mistake essentially. Trash character.
5. Zoro bullied them. Zoro was the catalyst for every shocker moment that wowed us and the Yonko. He had answers for all of their attacks without resorting to guts or natural df causes. He was the reason for Kaido to go hybrid. He was the reason Big Mom stopped underestimating them. He was the only one who put fear in both Kaido and Big Mom simultaneously. He embarrassed them while carrying Luffy and the other supernova. He solely dealt with the deadly force of Two emperors simultaneously. He was the reason for Kaido to start huffing and puffing. He almost killed Big Mom despite having broken bones. He bullied Kaido despite having broken bones.
2. You can't even accept how shitty the process was. Luffy got hit HEAD-ON by an attack meant to put him out of commission. Oda made it clear early in the fight, that Luffy should avoid these. Yet, when it does happen, instead of being put out of the fight, he gains an ability to allow him to clash evenly with Kaido in base. Not to mention the haki strength and speed inconsistency used to achieve this.
3. Yes, they were unsure of their reason to fight. Go read it friend.
4. Luffy not owning up to his mistake essentially. Trash character.
5. Zoro bullied them. Zoro was the catalyst for every shocker moment that wowed us and the Yonko. He had answers for all of their attacks without resorting to guts or natural df causes. He was the reason for Kaido to go hybrid. He was the reason Big Mom stopped underestimating them. He was the only one who put fear in both Kaido and Big Mom simultaneously. He embarrassed them while carrying Luffy and the other supernova. He solely dealt with the deadly force of Two emperors simultaneously. He was the reason for Kaido to start huffing and puffing. He almost killed Big Mom despite having broken bones. He bullied Kaido despite having broken bones.
1.) Although yes your point about Hiyori is fair, Kawamatsu raised Hiyori so why shouldn't Kawamatsu be the one to defeat Kaido, going by this logic? As for Kuina, she until proven otherwise has no connection to Wano, nor does Zolo himself. Why would Ryuma give Zolo motivation to defeat Kaido? As for Yasui, Zolo was angry at Orochi for Yasui's death, not Kaido. As for O-Tama, Luffy is far closer to her then Zolo is so if anything, O-Tama is just another reason why Luffy should defeat Kaido and not Zolo.
And it's not like Zolo would defeat Kaido on behalf on them, anyways. Zolo's priority, just like in every other major fight he has gotten in since the very beginning, is chiefly for his own progression as a fighter and to fulfill his own blood lust for combat. This is why when telling Queen he would defeat Kaido, Zolo immediately mentioned Kaido's strength rather then his cruelty towards the people of Wano. Kaido is just another challenge for Zolo, nothing more nothing less.
2.) It really isn't that shitty though, Luffy was dealing damage and tanking hits from Kaido even before he got his CoC bloom. In Base Form, at the very start of the fight, he literally ate a Thunder Bagua and took barely any damage, so him getting up from a Ragnarok after getting knocked unconscious temporarily shouldn't be that much of a stretch. As for him fighting Hybrid Kaido evenly, I mean, all I have to say to that was that it was inevitable that a CoC specialist like Luffy would be much stronger once he learned advanced CoC. It's the rarest and seemingly most powerful varient of haki, so the advanced version of that should warrant a massive boost in power also.
3.) "they were unsure"
1 single Shigan and Zolo was coughing up blood and face-to-the-floor
Same with Luffy, one panel later and they all the way across town. It was a neg-diff through and through, they took a shigan + unnamed kick and they were thrown across town like trash. Seriously man go watch the anime or something it was the most neg of diffs ever LOL, their attacks did 0 damage and they couldn't do a thing, yet later that day they beat them anyways. You want to talk about Luffy's ridiculous progression? He always progressed like crazy.
4.) "Luffy not owning up to his mistake = trash character" Would Luffy have been a trash character if he sat by and ignored Big Mom's threats toward Fishman Island? It's within his character to threaten those above him in power, him threatening Big Mom is no different. She will get defeated when the time is right, as of late Big Mom has been easy to deal with, don't forget even Robin was capable of displacing her from combat.
5.) "He had answers for all of their attacks without resorting to guts or natural df causes." Doesn't matter who uses df, Law isn't any less impressive then Zolo because he has a devil-fruit, you targetting Luffy and other df users just shows your bias once again. Zolo has been useful on the rooftop but besides carrying Luffy, he has mainly just been a damage dealer just like Killer and the Scabbards. Any damage he has done in this fight pales compared to Luffy anyways, I mean the guy in his strongest form couldn't even make Kaido fall, something even Luffy could do even before he got his haki-bloom, Luffy in his Kong-Gun Gatling had Kaido knocked Kaido out for a short period of time.
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Thanks just proved my point. 2021 talking about Marineford not Wano.
People still talking shit about "plot armor" in pre timeskp. I'm not saying it didn't have it. But plot armor is when things doesn't make sense. Water was always the key to defeat Crocodile. Of course it make sense Luffy surviving after losing 2 times because of that. Crocodile didn't killed him is bullshit for sure, at that time we never had that but it was the start of what OP would be till today, villains defeating but not killing him and when they finally decide to kill he already got strong enough to beat them.
Enel fight was bullshit? Luffy is literally his counter, the only one (besides Zoro but Oda messed up with haki) who could defeat him at Skypea.
Lucci was the perfect example of how Luffy x Katakuri fight should be, specially the ending. Luffy x Lucci is the hardest fight Luffy ever had in timeskip that he won, and it really meant that because he couldn't move after Lucci was defeated. But Katakuri suppose to be even harder and Luffy get out walking good enough (and didn't defeated Katakuri but bragged about that to Sanji).
How does Luffy x Moria is plot armor? He using Moria power against himself is plot armor? Maybe Moria could have took his shadows earlier but maybe Moria was testing Oars power limit. And his final form is pretty clear that Moria himself is weak enough to handle so much power. Imagine how OP would be if Moria could collect millions of shadows from random and instantly become Yonko level by that. Luffy's G2 and G3 had drawbacks why such ability like that wouldn't have?
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People still talking shit about "plot armor" in pre timeskp. I'm not saying it didn't have it. But plot armor is when things doesn't make sense. Water was always the key to defeat Crocodile. Of course it make sense Luffy surviving after losing 2 times because of that. Crocodile didn't killed him is bullshit for sure, at that time we never had that but it was the start of what OP would be till today, villains defeating but not killing him and when they finally decide to kill he already got strong enough to beat them.
Enel fight was bullshit? Luffy is literally his counter, the only one (besides Zoro but Oda messed up with haki) who could defeat him at Skypea.
Lucci was the perfect example of how Luffy x Katakuri fight should be, specially the ending. Luffy x Lucci is the hardest fight Luffy ever had in timeskip that he won, and it really meant that because he couldn't move after Lucci was defeated. But Katakuri suppose to be even harder and Luffy get out walking good enough (and didn't defeated Katakuri but bragged about that to Sanji).
How does Luffy x Moria is plot armor? He using Moria power against himself is plot armor? Maybe Moria could have took his shadows earlier but maybe Moria was testing Oars power limit. And his final form is pretty clear that Moria himself is weak enough to handle so much power. Imagine how OP would be if Moria could collect millions of shadows from random and instantly become Yonko level by that. Luffy's G2 and G3 had drawbacks why such ability like that wouldn't have?
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The sales for WCI was going up well without half of the crew then we switched to Wano which is the Japanese theme arc for One Piece and supposedly got hyped by Oda and we got the whole crew this time and yet the sales got beat by Demon Slayer. Really make you think.
Great post bro. And people come up with the excuses "But but, Luffy and Zoro got nerfed mentally so that's why they loses to Lucci and Kaku."
The same people that said Killer didn't get nerfed or Sanji "loses" to Judge even though Sanji is mentally unstable.
1.) Although yes your point about Hiyori is fair, Kawamatsu raised Hiyori so why shouldn't Kawamatsu be the one to defeat Kaido, going by this logic? As for Kuina, she until proven otherwise has no connection to Wano, nor does Zolo himself. Why would Ryuma give Zolo motivation to defeat Kaido? As for Yasui, Zolo was angry at Orochi for Yasui's death, not Kaido. As for O-Tama, Luffy is far closer to her then Zolo is so if anything, O-Tama is just another reason why Luffy should defeat Kaido and not Zolo.
And it's not like Zolo would defeat Kaido on behalf on them, anyways. Zolo's priority, just like in every other major fight he has gotten in since the very beginning, is chiefly for his own progression as a fighter and to fulfill his own blood lust for combat. This is why when telling Queen he would defeat Kaido, Zolo immediately mentioned Kaido's strength rather then his cruelty towards the people of Wano. Kaido is just another challenge for Zolo, nothing more nothing less.
2.) It really isn't that shitty though, Luffy was dealing damage and tanking hits from Kaido even before he got his CoC bloom. In Base Form, at the very start of the fight, he literally ate a Thunder Bagua and took barely any damage, so him getting up from a Ragnarok after getting knocked unconscious temporarily shouldn't be that much of a stretch. As for him fighting Hybrid Kaido evenly, I mean, all I have to say to that was that it was inevitable that a CoC specialist like Luffy would be much stronger once he learned advanced CoC. It's the rarest and seemingly most powerful varient of haki, so the advanced version of that should warrant a massive boost in power also.
3.) "they were unsure"
1 single Shigan and Zolo was coughing up blood and face-to-the-floor
Same with Luffy, one panel later and they all the way across town. It was a neg-diff through and through, they took a shigan + unnamed kick and they were thrown across town like trash. Seriously man go watch the anime or something it was the most neg of diffs ever LOL, their attacks did 0 damage and they couldn't do a thing, yet later that day they beat them anyways. You want to talk about Luffy's ridiculous progression? He always progressed like crazy.
4.) "Luffy not owning up to his mistake = trash character" Would Luffy have been a trash character if he sat by and ignored Big Mom's threats toward Fishman Island? It's within his character to threaten those above him in power, him threatening Big Mom is no different. She will get defeated when the time is right, as of late Big Mom has been easy to deal with, don't forget even Robin was capable of displacing her from combat.
5.) "He had answers for all of their attacks without resorting to guts or natural df causes." Doesn't matter who uses df, Law isn't any less impressive then Zolo because he has a devil-fruit, you targetting Luffy and other df users just shows your bias once again. Zolo has been useful on the rooftop but besides carrying Luffy, he has mainly just been a damage dealer just like Killer and the Scabbards. Any damage he has done in this fight pales compared to Luffy anyways, I mean the guy in his strongest form couldn't even make Kaido fall, something even Luffy could do even before he got his haki-bloom, Luffy in his Kong-Gun Gatling had Kaido knocked Kaido out for a short period of time.
And it's not like Zolo would defeat Kaido on behalf on them, anyways. Zolo's priority, just like in every other major fight he has gotten in since the very beginning, is chiefly for his own progression as a fighter and to fulfill his own blood lust for combat. This is why when telling Queen he would defeat Kaido, Zolo immediately mentioned Kaido's strength rather then his cruelty towards the people of Wano. Kaido is just another challenge for Zolo, nothing more nothing less.
2.) It really isn't that shitty though, Luffy was dealing damage and tanking hits from Kaido even before he got his CoC bloom. In Base Form, at the very start of the fight, he literally ate a Thunder Bagua and took barely any damage, so him getting up from a Ragnarok after getting knocked unconscious temporarily shouldn't be that much of a stretch. As for him fighting Hybrid Kaido evenly, I mean, all I have to say to that was that it was inevitable that a CoC specialist like Luffy would be much stronger once he learned advanced CoC. It's the rarest and seemingly most powerful varient of haki, so the advanced version of that should warrant a massive boost in power also.
3.) "they were unsure"
1 single Shigan and Zolo was coughing up blood and face-to-the-floor
Same with Luffy, one panel later and they all the way across town. It was a neg-diff through and through, they took a shigan + unnamed kick and they were thrown across town like trash. Seriously man go watch the anime or something it was the most neg of diffs ever LOL, their attacks did 0 damage and they couldn't do a thing, yet later that day they beat them anyways. You want to talk about Luffy's ridiculous progression? He always progressed like crazy.
4.) "Luffy not owning up to his mistake = trash character" Would Luffy have been a trash character if he sat by and ignored Big Mom's threats toward Fishman Island? It's within his character to threaten those above him in power, him threatening Big Mom is no different. She will get defeated when the time is right, as of late Big Mom has been easy to deal with, don't forget even Robin was capable of displacing her from combat.
5.) "He had answers for all of their attacks without resorting to guts or natural df causes." Doesn't matter who uses df, Law isn't any less impressive then Zolo because he has a devil-fruit, you targetting Luffy and other df users just shows your bias once again. Zolo has been useful on the rooftop but besides carrying Luffy, he has mainly just been a damage dealer just like Killer and the Scabbards. Any damage he has done in this fight pales compared to Luffy anyways, I mean the guy in his strongest form couldn't even make Kaido fall, something even Luffy could do even before he got his haki-bloom, Luffy in his Kong-Gun Gatling had Kaido knocked Kaido out for a short period of time.
The same people that said Killer didn't get nerfed or Sanji "loses" to Judge even though Sanji is mentally unstable.
The sales for WCI was going up well without half of the crew then we switched to Wano which is the Japanese theme arc for One Piece and supposedly got hyped by Oda and we got the whole crew this time and yet the sales got beat by Demon Slayer. Really make you think.
Great post bro. And people come up with the excuses "But but, Luffy and Zoro got nerfed mentally so that's why they loses to Lucci and Kaku."
The same people that said Killer didn't get nerfed or Sanji "loses" to Judge even though Sanji is mentally unstable.
Great post bro. And people come up with the excuses "But but, Luffy and Zoro got nerfed mentally so that's why they loses to Lucci and Kaku."
The same people that said Killer didn't get nerfed or Sanji "loses" to Judge even though Sanji is mentally unstable.
