Questions & Mysteries Why there are so many Admiral Haters here?
- Thread starter BaboonMihawk
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I never placed admirals as litteral fodder.
You are probably including me in the whole group but to me, admirals have always been between yonko and YC1.
It has always been yonko > admirals > YC1.
You can call it Yonko >~ Admiral if you want, that's just mere details, as long as you acknowledge that the yonko are superior.
What is true is that:
You have the 4 strongest pirates among the yonko (except Buggy whose force is technically Mihawk).
You have the 3 strongest marines among the admirals.
Admirals are already by definition weaker than the yonko (world's strongest man, world's strongest creature, world's strongest swordsman & his closest rival, Sun God Nika).
Greenbull and Fujitora are swordsmen so weaker than world's strongest swordsman, all admirals are "humans" and weaker than world's strongest man and creature.
Problem is you get angry the moment someone states this fact.
It's fine to put them under the yonko, at the end of the day they are simply humans and they are already doing much more than most humans.
What are admirals compared to someone who awakened a God fruit that has been awaited for 800 years? Compared to the world's strongest creature?
Also, the One Piece story is more complex than "yonko", "admirals".
What about Zoro who is supposed to surpass Mihawk, who is stronger than Emperor Shanks? Why shouldn't he surpass an admiral too?
What about Luffy who awakened a legendary devil fruit that defeated the world's strongest creature?
Opinions are conditioned by feelings, by beliefs, not only by evidence and facts.
It's fine to respect people's opinions and just call it a day but that doesn't mean that their opinion is objectively right.
We see this in all fields. Heliocentrism vs geocentrism was a very good example, of course One Piece debates are more futile than heliocentrism vs geocentrism but you get the point.
In my eyes, the same people who push Luffy vs Kizaru round 2 are sharing this opinion based on their beliefs and feelings. They love the admirals so they expect from Oda to do this and they will gaslight anything that goes into that direction.
However, that's not what the narrative suggests at all.
In the scientific field, we don't go sharing random opinions and call it a day because "we feel like loving this".
We analyse, we bring evidences and we conclude based on these.
There are 2 facts in One Piece that also apply to Egghead arc:
- One Piece is a shonen manga, the story revolves around a main character (Luffy)
- One Piece follows the "damsel in distress narrative device"
In Egghead:
- Luffy is the main character
- Bonney is the damsel in distress that is awaiting Luffy (Nika) to save her
The recent chapter has confirmed that Bonney was the damsel in distress and that Nika was her savior.
Who is the oppressor?
Thinking that Kizaru is the person that Nika is going to free Bonney from is objectively wrong.
Kizaru is a conflicted admiral, his justice is unclear, he is only a corporate slave and he danced with Bonney, Kuma and Vegapunk to the rhythm of the drums of liberation.
Saturn is the oppressor, it's the same oppressor than in previous arcs, he is the main villain like Kaido was, like Doflamingo was, like Arlong was.
Saturn killed Ginny, made Bonney contract an incurable disease, turned Kuma into a soulless cyborg, has Kizaru as a corporate slave, tried to kill Vegapunk (if not killed him).
Yet, people will still argue that the main villain this arc is Kizaru, and that he's the one who Luffy will mainly focus on.
Of course, no matter how I say it, this will be opposed by someone's opinion that is only conditioned by their own beliefs, how seemingly Kizaru is stronger than Saturn, when the whole narrative is putting Saturn above Kizaru, the corporate slave.
Then, I'll be the one called an "agenda pusher" for explaining this reasoning to people and my arguments opposed with stupid nonsense like the one above.
You are probably including me in the whole group but to me, admirals have always been between yonko and YC1.
It has always been yonko > admirals > YC1.
You can call it Yonko >~ Admiral if you want, that's just mere details, as long as you acknowledge that the yonko are superior.
What is true is that:
You have the 4 strongest pirates among the yonko (except Buggy whose force is technically Mihawk).
You have the 3 strongest marines among the admirals.
Admirals are already by definition weaker than the yonko (world's strongest man, world's strongest creature, world's strongest swordsman & his closest rival, Sun God Nika).
Greenbull and Fujitora are swordsmen so weaker than world's strongest swordsman, all admirals are "humans" and weaker than world's strongest man and creature.
Problem is you get angry the moment someone states this fact.
It's fine to put them under the yonko, at the end of the day they are simply humans and they are already doing much more than most humans.
What are admirals compared to someone who awakened a God fruit that has been awaited for 800 years? Compared to the world's strongest creature?
Also, the One Piece story is more complex than "yonko", "admirals".
What about Zoro who is supposed to surpass Mihawk, who is stronger than Emperor Shanks? Why shouldn't he surpass an admiral too?
What about Luffy who awakened a legendary devil fruit that defeated the world's strongest creature?
Opinions are conditioned by feelings, by beliefs, not only by evidence and facts.
It's fine to respect people's opinions and just call it a day but that doesn't mean that their opinion is objectively right.
We see this in all fields. Heliocentrism vs geocentrism was a very good example, of course One Piece debates are more futile than heliocentrism vs geocentrism but you get the point.
In my eyes, the same people who push Luffy vs Kizaru round 2 are sharing this opinion based on their beliefs and feelings. They love the admirals so they expect from Oda to do this and they will gaslight anything that goes into that direction.
However, that's not what the narrative suggests at all.
In the scientific field, we don't go sharing random opinions and call it a day because "we feel like loving this".
We analyse, we bring evidences and we conclude based on these.
There are 2 facts in One Piece that also apply to Egghead arc:
- One Piece is a shonen manga, the story revolves around a main character (Luffy)
- One Piece follows the "damsel in distress narrative device"
In Egghead:
- Luffy is the main character
- Bonney is the damsel in distress that is awaiting Luffy (Nika) to save her
The recent chapter has confirmed that Bonney was the damsel in distress and that Nika was her savior.
Who is the oppressor?
Thinking that Kizaru is the person that Nika is going to free Bonney from is objectively wrong.
Kizaru is a conflicted admiral, his justice is unclear, he is only a corporate slave and he danced with Bonney, Kuma and Vegapunk to the rhythm of the drums of liberation.
Saturn is the oppressor, it's the same oppressor than in previous arcs, he is the main villain like Kaido was, like Doflamingo was, like Arlong was.
Saturn killed Ginny, made Bonney contract an incurable disease, turned Kuma into a soulless cyborg, has Kizaru as a corporate slave, tried to kill Vegapunk (if not killed him).
Yet, people will still argue that the main villain this arc is Kizaru, and that he's the one who Luffy will mainly focus on.
Of course, no matter how I say it, this will be opposed by someone's opinion that is only conditioned by their own beliefs, how seemingly Kizaru is stronger than Saturn, when the whole narrative is putting Saturn above Kizaru, the corporate slave.
Then, I'll be the one called an "agenda pusher" for explaining this reasoning to people and my arguments opposed with stupid nonsense like the one above.
My favorite is still 2 yonko each diarrhea shitting their pants against a lone admiral within 10 chapters (1081 and 1090)
Yonkobros have never been the same since then
Yonkobros have never been the same since then
BB readily ties to ambush people at any given turn. He tired it with Sickbeard, Magellan, Hancock and Law, but jumping Kuzan didn't even cross his mind and was out of the question. He immediately tried to talk Kuzan down and join forces. As for Kuzan himself, so much blatant attention to given to why did he say yes. Ever since PH, Kuzan was questioned on his intentions with even Burgess saying he doesn't trust him.
But nah. Kuzan is BB's loyal subordinate because Oda wanted to show Yonko>Admiral because I said so.
Im just going to say this plainly: powerscaling is a sickness, and rarely, if ever, is justified in this particular story the way the fanbase thinks.
The biggest knock against all of this was calling Kaido the Worlds Strongest Creature, having Luffy mostly defeat him alone, and not remotely making him the final antagonist. At this rate, there could be upwards of 4-6 more antagonists beyond him, including Kizaru/Saturn.
Kaido is a threshold, and now that he is surpassed, it is not "about" who the next strongest villain is. Its that we've hit that threshold and now Luffy has to deal with villains differently, like he did once he surpassed Crocodile. Enel was fucking broken, but was his natural enemy. Lucci was not a logia, and had to be handled VERY differently. Moria himself was a weakling, but not his power to ressurect Oars. It is called horizonal progression for a reason. Yonko and Admirals are all just "relative" and have been at a very basic level, and there is a reason why Oda has had to awkwardly scale up ex-shichibukai to seem superior to Yonko commanders: to justify their endgame relevancy (with the exception of Mihawk)
Ive gone into detail about the prospects of Kizaru/Saturn, Akainu, Blackbeard, Shanks and Imu already and how they relate to a post-Kaido story. At the end of the day, grouping yourself to a particular faction is just so horribly narrowminded. We should all be hoping Oda delivers good progression of the remaining fights in the series. We should want Zoro to face Admirals, the strongest Yonko commanders and a Gorosei, on top of Mihawk. We should want Luffy to fight his first Admiral and possibly a Gorosei, the remaining Yonko, Fleet Admiral and the World's Secret King
We should want these things out of this story.
The biggest knock against all of this was calling Kaido the Worlds Strongest Creature, having Luffy mostly defeat him alone, and not remotely making him the final antagonist. At this rate, there could be upwards of 4-6 more antagonists beyond him, including Kizaru/Saturn.
Kaido is a threshold, and now that he is surpassed, it is not "about" who the next strongest villain is. Its that we've hit that threshold and now Luffy has to deal with villains differently, like he did once he surpassed Crocodile. Enel was fucking broken, but was his natural enemy. Lucci was not a logia, and had to be handled VERY differently. Moria himself was a weakling, but not his power to ressurect Oars. It is called horizonal progression for a reason. Yonko and Admirals are all just "relative" and have been at a very basic level, and there is a reason why Oda has had to awkwardly scale up ex-shichibukai to seem superior to Yonko commanders: to justify their endgame relevancy (with the exception of Mihawk)
Ive gone into detail about the prospects of Kizaru/Saturn, Akainu, Blackbeard, Shanks and Imu already and how they relate to a post-Kaido story. At the end of the day, grouping yourself to a particular faction is just so horribly narrowminded. We should all be hoping Oda delivers good progression of the remaining fights in the series. We should want Zoro to face Admirals, the strongest Yonko commanders and a Gorosei, on top of Mihawk. We should want Luffy to fight his first Admiral and possibly a Gorosei, the remaining Yonko, Fleet Admiral and the World's Secret King
We should want these things out of this story.
Yeah, there is too much agenda to change.
Because when a character so much as even thinks to not do something remotely impeccable, it becomes a war. And so, when it happens to another character that was hyped by the fanbase that "attacked" the first time, starts a revenge war because of the first war. And so on, endlessly.
Because when a character so much as even thinks to not do something remotely impeccable, it becomes a war. And so, when it happens to another character that was hyped by the fanbase that "attacked" the first time, starts a revenge war because of the first war. And so on, endlessly.
I don't hate admirals, just that most of their showings have been poor, whether they are nerfed due to location (marijoa) or something else, GB got wifi diffed, Kizaru was about to kill Bonney and Kuma which shows he isn't mentally nerfed and that he is a cog in the machine like he said it himself + a single ACoC had him unable to mpve for sometime yet admiral stands were trying to delude themselves into that being a win. This is the best chance to show good showing from admirals, so far nothing from them that'll make me put them = to Kaido or Shanks.
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No Pringle. That is blatantly false. People use facts to tell lies. People come to false conclusions due to the facts present. For example:
Kaido took a ton of ACOC attacks=fact
Kizaru was TKO after a single attack=fact
Conclusion: Kaido low diffs Kizaru
If you disagree with the conclusion, person will claim you disagree with the aforementioned facts.
Who says it's objectively right? All that matters is if their conclusion is logically sound. Based on the facts peesenr in the manga and other sources, I've come to the conclusion that Yonko>Admiral and Yonko~Admiral are both logically sound opinions and can back them up with reason free of contradiction.
Kaido took a ton of ACOC attacks=fact
Kizaru was TKO after a single attack=fact
Conclusion: Kaido low diffs Kizaru
If you disagree with the conclusion, person will claim you disagree with the aforementioned facts.
Who says it's objectively right? All that matters is if their conclusion is logically sound. Based on the facts peesenr in the manga and other sources, I've come to the conclusion that Yonko>Admiral and Yonko~Admiral are both logically sound opinions and can back them up with reason free of contradiction.
I wish it was like this, but most people on here have the mental age of a 6 year old, and only care about:
1. Portrayal of their favourite
2. Downplay of the enemies
I don't want to single out any agenda despite one being the most vocal offender in this regard, as they all fuel each other.
The problem is that for each powerscaling-agenda drive thread that reaches 13 pages in an hour there are countless threads about plot and more interesting thing that have 0 replies. Because most people on here are to discuss how X is stronger than Y because in that panel Y had 3 lines drawn and was sweating while X was puffing and [..].
It's tiresome.
1. Portrayal of their favourite
2. Downplay of the enemies
I don't want to single out any agenda despite one being the most vocal offender in this regard, as they all fuel each other.
The problem is that for each powerscaling-agenda drive thread that reaches 13 pages in an hour there are countless threads about plot and more interesting thing that have 0 replies. Because most people on here are to discuss how X is stronger than Y because in that panel Y had 3 lines drawn and was sweating while X was puffing and [..].
It's tiresome.
The victim mentality pioneered by Sanji fans and now rampant throughout the community is hugely unattractive.
On topic, the Admirals- to me, in general a fan of the Marines- have been a massive disappointment in a post Wano world. But only fighting wise.
Character wise, great stuff, although people really need to start accepting that Kizaru has so far shown next to no redeeming features as a person.
On topic, the Admirals- to me, in general a fan of the Marines- have been a massive disappointment in a post Wano world. But only fighting wise.
Character wise, great stuff, although people really need to start accepting that Kizaru has so far shown next to no redeeming features as a person.
I still dont understand how bias one can be to bring Kuzan being a BB pirate as am argument for Yonko being stronger...
100% this was strength-portrayal wise an L for Blackbeard! Kuzan casually threatened to kill Blackbeard and his entire crew as if thats nothing to him, and Blackbeard was sweating and panicing.
It was basically a business deal as of why Kuzan joined him, Blackbeard clearly had the inferior portrayal strength wise. The way he even put his hand out, like trying to calm and tame a wild animal you know can fuck you up.
100% this was strength-portrayal wise an L for Blackbeard! Kuzan casually threatened to kill Blackbeard and his entire crew as if thats nothing to him, and Blackbeard was sweating and panicing.
It was basically a business deal as of why Kuzan joined him, Blackbeard clearly had the inferior portrayal strength wise. The way he even put his hand out, like trying to calm and tame a wild animal you know can fuck you up.
I still dont understand how bias one can be to bring Kuzan being a BB pirate as am argument for Yonko being stronger...
100% this was strength-portrayal wise an L for Blackbeard! Kuzan casually threatened to kill Blackbeard and his entire crew as if thats nothing to him, and Blackbeard was sweating and panicing.
It was basically a business deal as of why Kuzan joined him, Blackbeard clearly had the inferior portrayal strength wise. The way he even put his hand out, like trying to calm and tame a wild animal you know can fuck you up.
100% this was strength-portrayal wise an L for Blackbeard! Kuzan casually threatened to kill Blackbeard and his entire crew as if thats nothing to him, and Blackbeard was sweating and panicing.
It was basically a business deal as of why Kuzan joined him, Blackbeard clearly had the inferior portrayal strength wise. The way he even put his hand out, like trying to calm and tame a wild animal you know can fuck you up.
Panels like this are like, simple. They show that BB, aYonko, is clearly "scared" of the idea of fighting Kuzan and the damage he is capable of dishing out.
Does this mean Yonko > Admiral or viceversa? No. It implies that they are both so strong that damage would be too much if they were to fight, and the admiral needs BB strength just as much the yonko needs Kuzan.
More of other way around. Character potential wise they are massively wasted by Oda and disappointing, but strength wise they surpassed every expectation post Wano (Kuzan being basically a light version of prime Garp without his fruit, Kizaru casually entering a Yonko crew territory confident to solo them - destroying Snakeman and fighting Gear 5 equally while being nerfed).