Powers & Abilities Why Zoro has two advanced Hakis and Sanji doesn't even have one?

[ImmaIvanoM]

No

I just think that dressrosa Zoro is sub YC3 level

So you are talking about Dressrosa Zoro vs Current Sanji? Not Current Sanji vs Current Zoro… Okay

So you’re saying Current Sanji has like Cracker biscuit level Durability… Hmm? problem is, Queen damaged Current Sanji by tossing him into a wooden wall… Do you think Dressrosa Zoro can’t do as much damage as Queen tossing Sanji into a wooden wall?

 

[Monkey D Theories]

It's funny that the same isn't applied to Law's puncture Willie when it destroyed rocks. Instead, it apparently one of the strongest attacks even though it failed to beat BM even with Kid's help apparently it's one of the strongest attacks. Some even claim it's a greater feat than scarring Kaido.

Okay cool, I’ve never hyped law for destroying rocks.

Your argument is still ass either way

Post automatically merged: Nov 30, 2022

So you are talking about Dressrosa Zoro vs Current Sanji? Not Current Sanji vs Current Zoro… Okay

So you’re saying Current Sanji has like Cracker biscuit level Durability… Hmm? problem is, Queen damaged Current Sanji by tossing him into a wooden wall… Do you think Dressrosa Zoro can’t do as much damage as Queen tossing Sanji into a wooden wall?

dressrosa Zoro doesn’t have Queen’s level of strength

We saw how King, an ancient zoan wielding commander with a comparable bounty to Queen, sent Zoro flying with a wing slap.

The raw strength of an ancient zoan is immense. Queen’s attack not only utilizes the strength of a brachiosaurus, it amplifies that with machinery.

 

[BillSlipton]

Sanji must be because all he can do is produce PTS level feats

Doesn't even have any visible haki either like PTS

You'd rather have haki powers and magic swords rather than strong kick, hot fire?

Man's been raw dogging post ts with straight physical strength? Now hes low diffing top yc?

If thats the narrative you want then sure.

but Queen has visible coa hardening...🤡

And took kings slashing attacks to the butt cheek lol

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

dressrosa Zoro doesn’t have Queen’s level of strength

Wait so what exactly damaged Sanji?

Winch Green is simply Queen grabbing sanji’s leg and spinning him through a bunch of wooden walls… Let me repeat, WOODEN WALLS

which part of the above attack is damaging Sanji? Is it the G-Force of the spin? Is it the Hand that’s holding him that’s crushing Sanji somehow? Is it the slam into THE WOODEN WALL?

I don’t understand how this attack is supposedly stronger than, Even Zoro’s 1080 pound canon that he used on pica…

Like I know it’s Very likely that Queen is physically stronger than Dressrosa Zoro but I should remind you that Zoro’s AP and DC has been proven to be SEVERAL times more powerful than Zoro’s actual physical strength

For example I do not count Zoro tossing Pica’s body into the air with his slash as a measure of Zoro’s physical strength… That makes no fucking sense… Pica’s a mountain and I do not believe Zoro can grab a mountain and throw it… Yet it’s very clear that His attacks are EXPONENTIALLY stronger than his actual physical strength

So yes, you can talk about Brachiosaurus strength of his clashes with King where he got over powered physically BUT, Zoro’s ATTACKS themselves are TIERS OF POWER above his actual physical strength…

I simply do not believe that Zoro can’t make an attack stronger than FUCKIN WINCH GREEN TOSSING SOMEONE INTO A WALL

 

[BillSlipton]

Because haki is related to willpower and Sanji is lacking in that department =>

At the end of the arc zeff told sanji he had the same spear of grit like luffy and zoro

 

[Surgeon of death]

Funny thing is Law might be able to surpass Zoro's roof top feats by End of Story.
His showings against Blackbeard were so fucking pathetic it pretty much validates everything I said about him in Wano.

Don't using situational garbage as puncture ville feat that skips surface durability, literally skin is only thing durable about Big Mom.
Ashura would just kill Big Mom as her skin isn't even half as durable as Kaido's.

But Blackbeard? With his pre time skip level durability?
Dressrosa 1080 pound canon is objectively a superior attack to shock ville

And Dressrosa Zoro can definitely block Law's Kroom as he already has barrier Haki.
I was being nice and putting him on roof top Zoro level, feats and portrayal wise he's nothing above Dressrosa Zoro.

Wats literally any of this headcanon have to do with my quote? Coping wont change how nonsensical this thread is!!!

Ztards are giving the clown, an award for being an ACoC master. Despite Him dickriding mihawk, an train 3x as long as an WG members or sanji. It’s embarrassing

 

[BillSlipton]

Wait so what exactly damaged Sanji?

Winch Green is simply Queen grabbing sanji’s leg and spinning him through a bunch of wooden walls… Let me repeat, WOODEN WALLS

which part of the above attack is damaging Sanji? Is it the G-Force of the spin? Is it the Hand that’s holding him that’s crushing Sanji somehow? Is it the slam into THE WOODEN WALL?

I don’t understand how this attack is supposedly stronger than, Even Zoro’s 1080 pound canon that he used on pica…

Like I know it’s Very likely that Queen is physically stronger than Dressrosa Zoro but I should remind you that Zoro’s AP and DC has been proven to be SEVERAL times more powerful than Zoro’s actual physical strength

For example I do not count Zoro tossing Pica’s body into the air with his slash as a measure of Zoro’s physical strength… That makes no fucking sense… Pica’s a mountain and I do not believe Zoro can grab a mountain and throw it… Yet it’s very clear that His attacks are EXPONENTIALLY stronger than his actual physical strength

So yes, you can talk about Brachiosaurus strength of his clashes with King where he got over powered physically BUT, Zoro’s ATTACKS themselves are TIERS OF POWER above his actual physical strength…

I simply do not believe that Zoro can’t make an attack stronger than FUCKIN WINCH GREEN TOSSING SOMEONE INTO A WALL

Zoro had a hard time dodging kings Tempura udon.

He said "it's like a laser beam"

He would die to one invisible queen brachio bomber with a laser spam and plagues

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

Zoro had a hard time dodging kings Tempura udon.

He said "it's like a laser beam"

He would die to one invisible queen brachio bomber with a laser spam and plagues

I’m not talking about any of that… I’m talking about Winch Green. That attack that damaged Sanji POST EXOSKELETON… That attack that is Queen spinning Sanji into a wooden wall… I do not believe that Zoro can’t match the AP of Queen tossing Sanji into a wooden wall

 

[Surgeon of death]

Enma wasn't a power up. Proven in the king fight when even king pointed it out.

Enma isn't responsible for anything. Zoro is the one releasing his own haki

Dumbo why Zoro releasing said Haki? To tame enma correct… no indication with any other blade he unlock CoC there.

 

[BillSlipton]

I’m not talking about any of that… I’m talking about Winch Green. That attack that damaged Sanji POST EXOSKELETON… That attack that is Queen spinning Sanji into a wooden wall… I do not believe that Zoro can’t match the AP of Queen tossing Sanji into a wooden wall

No doubt. Sanji was already overwhelming queen before the exo started kicking in. When he said he was distracted is when queen finally started landing hits

Sanji and zoro pre pu were just as likely to win as post pu. Zoro didn't get more mobile or faster with koh

 

[ConquistadoR]

Oh my god, he’s cutting rocks!!!!

Spoiler

I'm talking about the range and AoE of his slashes compared to the miniscule Sunny sized slash of a so called Yonko Commander who's stronger than him according to you.
Didn't you also just compare that shit to cutting a cake lmfao?

 

[Welkin]

This thread is major now wtf?

 

[Monkey D Theories]

I'm talking about the range and AoE of his slashes compared to the miniscule Sunny sized slash of a so called Yonko Commander who's stronger than him according to you.
Didn't you also just compare that shit to cutting a cake lmfao?

yeah, but smoothie is far more lethal due to her DF. I believe Oda said in an SBS that she can drain people by cutting them with her sword.

but smoothie is really a poor choice as she has the least feats of any YC, since Oda sidelined her so much. But Cracker’s feats shit on dressrosa Zoro, so we can say Smoothie’s probably stronger than him as well.

 

[CbShadow]

Haki aided. Sure. But what let him keep up was g5 toon power and the ISLAND sized punch. Did you miss that part?

Idk odas consistently shown us that he saves the best for last. In every main raid style battle the sh participate in. For every strawhat. Ennies lobby, and Alabasta come to mind first. And the reoccurring theme of both yonkos losing to 3 awakenings of df? Come on. That's a hard narrative right there.

You're a clown to dismiss the evidence I've presented. Haki aided. Haki was not the deciding factor.

The final factor was g5. This is a fact.

Just like zoros was koh

Just like sanjis was ifrit and not the exo kicking in.

Just like laws awakening.

Just like midds.

Quit going against one of the most reoccurring themes showed to us in the story. The best is saved for last. Fuck the dying antagonist ideas. He's not pk for a reason.

I can see you don't read the manga. Haki was the deciding factor.

Law, Kid, and Sanji growth are wasn't haki focus so their haki being weaker than their other power is irrelevant. Zoro and Luffy's growth was haki focus. KoH is Zoro releasing overwhelming CoA haki combined with CoC haki.

Law and Kid awakening wasn't enough to beat BM. That's why Oda had bombs take out BM for them.

They wouldn't have even knocked BM off the rooftop if she didn't accidentally grabbed a bomb reaching for the ledge.

Throughout Luffy's entire battle with Kaido haki was the reason Luffy was able to damage, keep up with, and individually beat him. Even after Luffy obtained awakening it still wasn't enough. Luffy fought Kaido in G5 mode for several chapters are still couldn't beat him.

During Luffy vs Kaido final moments of Kaido entered flame mode that stopped Luffy from being able to touch him. Luffy's response was to rely on his haki training from Udon and create the largest ACoC and ACoA haki barrier possible.

As you can see Luffy did save the best for last.

 

[Monkey D Theories]

Wait so what exactly damaged Sanji?

Winch Green is simply Queen grabbing sanji’s leg and spinning him through a bunch of wooden walls… Let me repeat, WOODEN WALLS

which part of the above attack is damaging Sanji? Is it the G-Force of the spin? Is it the Hand that’s holding him that’s crushing Sanji somehow? Is it the slam into THE WOODEN WALL?

You do realize, this attack only hurts sanji due to the force Queen exerts when he throws him.
The wall in of itself isn’t doing damage. It’s the force he’s being thrown into the wall.

Cutting the rocks isn’t something that’s scalable. It was even stated that Pica’s basic CoA was harder to cut than the rocks. We even saw how overrated these attacks are first hand when S Hawk could cut the amazon Lily mountain but not Teach’s haki.

Ultimately, cutting the rocks is simply something that looks cool, which is frankly a lot of Zoro scenes. But so what if it looks cool? He still loses to Cracker. He still loses to Jack and Perospero, who were beating Inu and Neko pre-su long. The same Inu and Neko that have ACoA and could cut kaido.

Post automatically merged: Dec 1, 2022

I can see you don't read the manga. Haki was the deciding factor.

Law, Kid, and Sanji growth are wasn't haki focus so their haki being weaker than their other power is irrelevant. Zoro and Luffy's growth was haki focus. KoH is Zoro releasing overwhelming CoA haki combined with CoC haki.

Law and Kid awakening wasn't enough to beat BM. That's why Oda had bombs take out BM for them.

They wouldn't have even knocked BM off the rooftop if she didn't accidentally grabbed a bomb reaching for the ledge.

Throughout Luffy's entire battle with Kaido haki was the reason Luffy was able to damage, keep up with, and individually beat him. Even after Luffy obtained awakening it still wasn't enough. Luffy fought Kaido in G5 mode for several chapters are still couldn't beat him.

During Luffy vs Kaido final moments of Kaido entered flame mode that stopped Luffy from being able to touch him. Luffy's response was to rely on his haki training from Udon and create the largest ACoC and ACoA haki barrier possible.

As you can see Luffy did save the best for last.

The thing about Kid and Law vs Luffy is that unlike Zoro vs Sanji, where each have different skill sets, Luffy can do everything Kid and Law can do and then some.

Like just like Kid and Law, Luffy has awakening. However, in addition to his awakening just being better than the latter two, he has highly advanced forms of all 3 haki types.

Zoro doesn’t have mutations that surpasses Sanji’s. He doesn’t have an equivalent to Sanji’s fire.

 

[ConquistadoR]

yeah, but smoothie is far more lethal due to her DF. I believe Oda said in an SBS that she can drain people by cutting them with her sword.

but smoothie is really a poor choice as she has the least feats of any YC, since Oda sidelined her so much. But Cracker’s feats shit on dressrosa Zoro, so we can say Smoothie’s probably stronger than him as well.

Cracker's paper cut on Boundman isn't really all that to hype.
Dressrosa Zoro is the exact same as Wano Zoro and with one powerup, he was making your beloved Meme squeal at the top of her lungs lmao. And that powerup is basically an attack booster only.
He'd more than comfortably beat Cracker lmao.

The same Inu and Neko that have ACoA and could cut kaido.

Every Wano Samurai including the Dukes/Ashura/Denjiro were by default weaker than Dressrosa Zoro, Sulong or not.
Why?
Because they blatantly admitted inferiority by giving him Oden's sword, which no one dared to wield for over 20 years after Oden's death.
A sword which chooses it's wielder based on their strength and rejects/kills them if they're not strong enough.

Reality is Zoro came out of the timeskip only blatantly weaker than First Commanders. Scrubs like Cracker or Smoothie get washed.

 

[BillSlipton]

I can see you don't read the manga. Haki was the deciding factor.

Law, Kid, and Sanji growth are wasn't haki focus so their haki being weaker than their other power is irrelevant. Zoro and Luffy's growth was haki focus. KoH is Zoro releasing overwhelming CoA haki combined with CoC haki.

Law and Kid awakening wasn't enough to beat BM. That's why Oda had bombs take out BM for them.

They wouldn't have even knocked BM off the rooftop if she didn't accidentally grabbed a bomb reaching for the ledge.

Throughout Luffy's entire battle with Kaido haki was the reason Luffy was able to damage, keep up with, and individually beat him. Even after Luffy obtained awakening it still wasn't enough. Luffy fought Kaido in G5 mode for several chapters are still couldn't beat him.

During Luffy vs Kaido final moments of Kaido entered flame mode that stopped Luffy from being able to touch him. Luffy's response was to rely on his haki training from Udon and create the largest ACoC and ACoA haki barrier possible.

As you can see Luffy did save the best for last.

I agree about zoro obviously. But luffys main factor for winning was g5. Oda saves the best for last. Hence why I said everything I said. Reread the post. I'm not gonna be redundant.

Post automatically merged: Dec 1, 2022

I can see you don't read the manga. Haki was the deciding factor.

Law, Kid, and Sanji growth are wasn't haki focus so their haki being weaker than their other power is irrelevant. Zoro and Luffy's growth was haki focus. KoH is Zoro releasing overwhelming CoA haki combined with CoC haki.

Law and Kid awakening wasn't enough to beat BM. That's why Oda had bombs take out BM for them.

They wouldn't have even knocked BM off the rooftop if she didn't accidentally grabbed a bomb reaching for the ledge.

Throughout Luffy's entire battle with Kaido haki was the reason Luffy was able to damage, keep up with, and individually beat him. Even after Luffy obtained awakening it still wasn't enough. Luffy fought Kaido in G5 mode for several chapters are still couldn't beat him.

During Luffy vs Kaido final moments of Kaido entered flame mode that stopped Luffy from being able to touch him. Luffy's response was to rely on his haki training from Udon and create the largest ACoC and ACoA haki barrier possible.

As you can see Luffy did save the best for last.

Lmao haki that he was using the entire time wasn't saved for past. Hence why I said it aided the final attack. 🤡 gain some reading comprehension

 

[CbShadow]

I agree about zoro obviously. But luffys main factor for winning was g5. Oda saves the best for last. Hence why I said everything I said. Reread the post. I'm not gonna be redundant.

Post automatically merged: Dec 1, 2022

Lmao haki that he was using the entire time wasn't saved for past. Hence why I said it aided the final attack. 🤡 gain some reading comprehension

You are still denying manga facts.

Luffy was using his DF power throughout the entire battle and it wasn't enough. He fought Kaido with his G5 (awakening) for several chapters and it wasn't enough. In the end, if Luffy didn't used haki He wouldn't ever even been able to touch Kaido.

That's why the final clash was between Luffy's haki and Kaido's flame mode.

Take away G5 and Luffy still has his power large ACoC and ACoA. Take away haki and he can't even clash with Kaido.

 

[HeroesNZ]

You can change the future if you are aware of it or if someone intervenes, thats the whole point of Luffy managing to overcome Katakuri and start getting the upper hand in the battle. Thats the point of Sanji leaving Katakuri's CoO in the mud.

In the context of Sanji/Luffy vs Katakuri, the only person changing the future is Katakuri.

When Kuri attacked Luffy for example, he would see where Luffy dodges to in his future and therefore aim his attack to where Luffy dodged. In changing the direction of his attack, Kuri has changed the future. Luffy still dodges due to his reactions/CoO, similar case with Sanji and the jellybean. @Bold never happened.

But even then, Katakuri's Future sight was still superior, thats where the Snakeman and its speed comes in



Even if that made some sense and had happened more times, how does it changes the fact that this is exactly how Katakuri gets countered?

How different is Luffy countering Katakuri compared to Sanji countering Katakuri after Kata himself specifically took his time to look into the future?

The only difference is that Luffy's dodging feats are a step above. Like I said, Kuri saw where Luffy dodged and would aim there. It's like Luffy has to dodge twice - Luffy himself said it makes him twice as tired [X]. However, with Sanji, he saw where Sanji dodged the priest's bullet but didn't aim there, because Sanji hadn't moved there yet. He just aimed exactly where Sanji was so Luffy has to dodge twice whereas Sanji dodged once, no different to dodging a normal gunshot. Luffy's dodging feats are objectively superior.

What everyone who quoted me in this thread has been saying is basically:

"Sanji didn't counter Katakuri, well he actually did, but... Nah i don't want to admit so let me pretend that was something else..."

Well counter itself is the wrong term because Sanji didn't attack Kuri at all, so nothing he did could be considered a counter. Sanji did dodge an attack from Katakuri. But he did not do so using FS, because he doesn't have it, nor would he need it to dodge a jellybean.

What im getting from these responses is that Katakuri simply became so dumb here that he:

- Couldn't see his own high speed jelly bean hitting the Priest.

Of course not - it was impossible for Katakuri to see his Jellybean hit the priest in the future. Why? Because the only reason the priest got hit by the bean is because Katakuri was acting on the future he already saw. A future in which the priest attempted to shoot Sanji and failed.

- Didn't realized Sanji was going to dodge the jelly bean

Same response as above - he could not see Sanji dodging in the future. This point and the point above are both occuring in the alternate future created as a result of Katakuri's influence. He's blind to this new alternate future because he just created it.

- Not only could not explain why did Sanji dodged the jelly bean, just like at any other moment someone (Luffy and Sanji) managed to counter the future that he saw, but on top of that Sanji acted like he expected all of it:

Spoiler

You're trying to make a big deal that the Priest is there, when in fact he was already going to dodge him. Thats the point!

And how do you explain his glare to Katakuri's face implying that he knew exactly what happened there, even when the Priest was supposed to be the first one to shoot?

Your evidence for Sanji awakening FS in this scene is that he glared at Katakuri? Need I say more?

Sanji didn't even bothered with the Priest being hit, and the Priest still pulled the trigger.

You are relying at trying to completely take out Sanji's merit and feat here, like it had no purpose in the scene, even when Katakuri himself pointed out Sanji doing something he should've not. He intentionally made Katakuri clown himself, and this wasn't going to be possible for Sanji if he didn't knew exactly what was going to happen:

Spoiler

I've got nothing more to add here, I've already explained the scene.

I wouldn't even be claiming that here if Sanji didn't had more feats to support he can already see into the future, even if its not frequent (something i mentioned several comments before)

- Luffy assuming he still has stuff to learn about CoO when Sanji hears something he wasn't able to.

Nothing to do with seeing the future and all to do with Sanji's CoO being supercharged when it comes to women.

- Sanji mysteriously arriving at the Live Floor knowing exactly what to do to save Chopper, parry Perospero's arrows and blow him away, all at once.

- Sanji seeing Queen invisible and finding out his intentions to hit O-Some in the middle of a speed blitz, something he couldn't do before, then aimed precisely at his neck even tho he was invisible

All of those precede the most obvious one in Tea Party. One simply stacks up to the others

Why would Sanji need to see the future to deal with Pero's attack? The arrows were slow as shit and many fodders were screaming their hearts out - you don't think it's possible Sanji just, y'kno, noticed the arrows were coming and used Queen to block them? Not everything needs to be FS.

Sensing the presence of people you can't see is Observation Haki 101. Literally the most basic use of the ability.

Sanji never used FS at the tea party. Because he doesn't have it.

 

[Buggy D Clown]

You can change the future if you are aware of it or if someone intervenes, thats the whole point of Luffy managing to overcome Katakuri and start getting the upper hand in the battle. Thats the point of Sanji leaving Katakuri's CoO in the mud.

But even then, Katakuri's Future sight was still superior, thats where the Snakeman and its speed comes in



Even if that made some sense and had happened more times, how does it changes the fact that this is exactly how Katakuri gets countered?

How different is Luffy countering Katakuri compared to Sanji countering Katakuri after Kata himself specifically took his time to look into the future?

What everyone who quoted me in this thread has been saying is basically:

"Sanji didn't counter Katakuri, well he actually did, but... Nah i don't want to admit so let me pretend that was something else..."



Dude, Sanji was going to dodge both things. You're trying to imply that Katakuri is shitting on his ability almost intentionally.

Can you point me one time that Katakuri saw something so simple on panel, and by trying to respond somehow without interference, he failed miserably?

What im getting from these responses is that Katakuri simply became so dumb here that he:

- Couldn't see his own high speed jelly bean hitting the Priest.

- Didn't realized Sanji was going to dodge the jelly bean

- Not only could not explain why did Sanji dodged the jelly bean, just like at any other moment someone (Luffy and Sanji) managed to counter the future that he saw, but on top of that Sanji acted like he expected all of it:

Spoiler

You're trying to make a big deal that the Priest is there, when in fact he was already going to dodge him. Thats the point!

And how do you explain his glare to Katakuri's face implying that he knew exactly what happened there, even when the Priest was supposed to be the first one to shoot?

Sanji didn't even bothered with the Priest being hit, and the Priest still pulled the trigger.

You are relying at trying to completely take out Sanji's merit and feat here, like it had no purpose in the scene, even when Katakuri himself pointed out Sanji doing something he should've not. He intentionally made Katakuri clown himself, and this wasn't going to be possible for Sanji if he didn't knew exactly what was going to happen:

Spoiler

I wouldn't even be claiming that here if Sanji didn't had more feats to support he can already see into the future, even if its not frequent (something i mentioned several comments before)

- Luffy assuming he still has stuff to learn about CoO when Sanji hears something he wasn't able to.

- Sanji mysteriously arriving at the Live Floor knowing exactly what to do to save Chopper, parry Perospero's arrows and blow him away, all at once.

- Sanji seeing Queen invisible and finding out his intentions to hit O-Some in the middle of a speed blitz, something he couldn't do before, then aimed precisely at his neck even tho he was invisible

All of those precede the most obvious one in Tea Party. One simply stacks up to the others

Since you continue to refuse to explain the events properly in one post without going all over the place just answer is the following correct?

1. Katakuri sees the priest future
2. Katakuri checks the future if he interfered with the priest future and sees the jelly bean hitting Sanji
3. Throws jelly bean
4. Sanji sees the priest future
5. Sanji checks to see the future again for whatever reason only to see it's changed into him getting hit by a jelly bean
6. Sanji dodges the jelly bean

is above what you think happened? If not just fix which ever parts are wrong