Character Discussion Would you mind if Zoro got CoC?

[Orojackson Refugee]

Trading a sword, for a inferior one, when you are about to face a yonko? Buddy, you simply don't deserve to win. But oh well. If people wanna think this is good writing, be my guest.
And Enma is a magical sword.
Sandai had to be tamed.
Shuusui had to be tamed.
Enma is the only one that sucks Haki from the user on its own.
That's a magical weapon.

What? Enma is a sword that can suck your haki, so how do you exclude that from 'being tamed'? Unless you want to get all your haki sucked, you need to tame it.

First, the trade to enma were between zoro and hiyori. Dunno why you threw hissy fit on the writing for 'Wano people'.
As the chapter explained, there was a hint that hiyori noticed the wado ichimonji and just believed that zoro would master the enma sword. Shushui is currently better than enma since it's already reached the black blade state. But well, oden still managed to give a scar to kaido so it's not like black blade is necessary to beat kaido

 

[Doggo]

I didn't exclude it. The "sucking the haki" is the "taming the sword" in Enma's case. Taming the sword is not a new thing. The Haki sucking part is.
The trade was between Zoro and Hyori, but the Tengu Masked guy was the one to deliver it, Kawamatsu was there, so were others scabbards when he received it.
Not a single soul said "yo, this guy is a powerful swordsman, who could cut a stone giant the size of a mountain. Can't we let him use Shuusui for the final battle and after that return it? It's an enemy that screwed our country and our lives for over 20 years, and was responsible for the death of the guy to whom we owed our lives. Just saying."
Why didn't Momonosuke offered Ame no Habakiri? It's not like he is gonna use it. Kaido has an X scar, so probably the AnH also injured him, right?
Only reason accepted the trade was because he was convinced Enma was stronger. Otherwise he was gonna keep telling them to go screw themselves. Shuusui was his. He won it fair and square.

 

[Fn Lucci]

I'll be pretty sad if he does not. Like if the four conquerors whip it out next chapter and he just watches. He's a big dog.

It sounds like those opposed to it see it as a gift, but no it's actually a trait. Even when a character like Ace doesn't seem to aim so high, they have extreme determination to account for their relevance. Zoro has a strong aim but more importantly he has the mindset to get to where he's going. Conqueror's Haki isn't a booster but an indication.

If a thousand people in the story of OP have CoC, that doesn’t sound needlessly exorbitant to you?? That’s what I’m saying, it feels like we’re just diluting the ability the more we tease it out in the numbers.

That's like watching an NBA game and coming away with the idea that there are so many people above 6'3" or who can perform ____ stat. You're seeing the top of the top so certain things will appear more common.

 

[Orojackson Refugee]

I didn't exclude it. The "sucking the haki" is the "taming the sword" in Enma's case. Taming the sword is not a new thing. The Haki sucking part is.
The trade was between Zoro and Hyori, but the Tengu Masked guy was the one to deliver it, Kawamatsu was there, so were others scabbards when he received it.
Not a single soul said "yo, this guy is a powerful swordsman, who could cut a stone giant the size of a mountain. Can't we let him use Shuusui for the final battle and after that return it? It's an enemy that screwed our country and our lives for over 20 years, and was responsible for the death of the guy to whom we owed our lives. Just saying."
Why didn't Momonosuke offered Ame no Habakiri? It's not like he is gonna use it. Kaido has an X scar, so probably the AnH also injured him, right?
Only reason accepted the trade was because he was convinced Enma was stronger. Otherwise he was gonna keep telling them to go screw themselves. Shuusui was his. He won it fair and square.

So, zoro still needed to tame it, regardless of what you intend to mean as "magical sword". Zoro earned it, then, since he even specifically trained to wield it.

The rest allies didn't have any say on enma. Hiyori was the one who inherited it. It's a deal only between hiyori and zoro. Hiyori just believed that zoro would be able to master Enma. Zoro was busy training with enma and you want him to get even busier with ame no habakiri? Not to mention that Kinemon and gyukimaru were sceptical when they saw zoro with shushui (they thought zoro was the one who robbed the grave). It would just cause uncomfortable situation when zoro wields shushui in front of other Wano samurais during the war. So it makes sense that zoro just took another sword.

 

[Jew D. Boy]

That's like watching an NBA game and coming away with the idea that there are so many people above 6'3" or who can perform ____ stat. You're seeing the top of the top so certain things will appear more common.

...And are therefore less unique due to oversaturation, I am stunned at how many of y’all are missing that point. Context absolutely dictates here; if we have a group of special people who can all do the same thing, it’s special to the rest of us who don’t own that skill but not really as noteworthy among those people we’re watching. To use your own analogy - LeBron is incredible on his own merit, but when you have him in the league with Giannis, Curry, Durant, Kawhi, Embiid, Lillard, and Harden (or his teammate Davis) among others, we start to view him in the context of the superstars around him, of which there is no shortage. What he’s doing is phenomenal to us, but then we have a dozen other guys who can do almost the same thing. Are they better ballers than you or I? Without question, yes, but the gap between them and us is monumental compared to the gaps between each other, where the difference is almost negligible because they’re all of a similar skill level. Switch James out for Luffy and the others with Supernovae/Yonko/whoever you please, the principle still applies.

Post automatically merged: Jan 6, 2021

Let me be clear, even though I already have been multiple times across this forum - if anyone SHOULD unlock CoC on the crew, it’s Zoro without a single doubt. I even said in an earlier post in this thread that it makes sense for his character, but plenty of things make sense that are still cheap and gimmicky. Please tell me y’all understand the difference there.

 

[Fn Lucci]

...And are therefore less unique due to oversaturation, I am stunned at how many of y’all are missing that point. Context absolutely dictates here; if we have a group of special people who can all do the same thing, it’s special to the rest of us who don’t own that skill but not really as noteworthy among those people we’re watching. To use your own analogy - LeBron is incredible on his own merit, but when you have him in the league with Giannis, Curry, Durant, Kawhi, Embiid, Lillard, and Harden (or his teammate Davis) among others, we start to view him in the context of the superstars around him, of which there is no shortage. What he’s doing is phenomenal to us, but then we have a dozen other guys who can do almost the same thing. Are they better ballers than you or I? Without question, yes, but the gap between them and us is monumental compared to the gaps between each other, where the difference is almost negligible because they’re all of a similar skill level. Switch James out for Luffy and the others with Supernovae/Yonko/whoever you please, the principle still applies.

Post automatically merged: Jan 6, 2021

Let me be clear, even though I already have been multiple times across this forum - if anyone SHOULD unlock CoC on the crew, it’s Zoro without a single doubt. I even said in an earlier post in this thread that it makes sense for his character, but plenty of things make sense that are still cheap and gimmicky. Please tell me y’all understand the difference there.

There's a difference, yes... between what I know you mean and again, what we see. Like statistically we're talking 2/4 emperors, 0/5 admirals, 2/11 supernovas, 2/7 categorical warlord, and no end game exclusive character to be hinted so far.

On top of aaaaaall of the remaining Straw Hat antagonists thus far.

 

[Jew D. Boy]

There's a difference, yes... between what I know you mean and again, what we see. Like statistically we're talking 2/4 emperors, 0/5 admirals, 2/11 supernovas, 2/7 categorical warlord, and no end game exclusive character to be hinted so far.

On top of aaaaaall of the remaining Straw Hat antagonists thus far.

15 confirmed users so far; even if we extend the search out to the top 100 characters in this series, we still have a significant chunk of CoC users already. By your own admission, pretty much any antagonists that come after Wano (of which there should be several) and maybe even a few allies/secondary protagonists are also gonna have it, which is just gonna dilute the waters even further. That doesn’t even take into account the possibility that Zoro, Usopp, or other currently known characters could become confirmed users at any time. We don’t have to agree on this, but you’re not gonna successfully convince me that we aren’t hurtling towards a tipping point with this shit.

 

[Garp the Fist]

Really CoC should just have been Luffy, the Yonko and Roger to keep it rare. And Rocks, i suppose. We went past the point of no return when Hancock was the fourth confirmed user. Even Rayleigh having it was a tad iffy.

Now we’re at the case where it’s completely useless in many respects, but characters seem lesser if they don‘t have it because it’s been made too common. There will never be a good reason for Chinjao to be a CoC user

 

[Fn Lucci]

15 confirmed users so far; even if we extend the search out to the top 100 characters in this series, we still have a significant chunk of CoC users already. By your own admission, pretty much any antagonists that come after Wano (of which there should be several) and maybe even a few allies/secondary protagonists are also gonna have it, which is just gonna dilute the waters even further. That doesn’t even take into account the possibility that Zoro, Usopp, or other currently known characters could become confirmed users at any time. We don’t have to agree on this, but you’re not gonna successfully convince me that we aren’t hurtling towards a tipping point with this shit.

Only because a tipping point is subjective. I'm sure there are people who think more than like, Luffy and two other final antagonists would be overkill. For me it keeps things ambiguous, like the point Chinjao made about standing atop the other conquerors. It's pretty rare (15 out of how many, 1000 chapters in?) but without some numbers it looks pretty dumb for them to not see the end game ahead. Like five people have it, hmmm I wonder who are gonna be the final PK candidates.

And tbh I hate the vivre card thing, because it's completely dumb that it throws Sengoku in when there's nothing for him in the plot. But whatever.

 

[Lunaria]

What are the odds of winning Powerball or Mega Millions jackpot ? How many people won it ?

 

[Jew D. Boy]

What are the odds of winning Powerball or Mega Millions jackpot ? How many people won it ?

Only a small portion of the millions of people who live in America, but fewer people play the lottery than you probably think. Therein lies the dichotomy - if we look at CoC from a global standpoint, it’s still special; when we distill it down to how many people can use it out of the characters we’re focused on in the story, it’s significantly less unique.

Only because a tipping point is subjective. I'm sure there are people who think more than like, Luffy and two other final antagonists would be overkill. For me it keeps things ambiguous, like the point Chinjao made about standing atop the other conquerors. It's pretty rare (15 out of how many, 1000 chapters in?) but without some numbers it looks pretty dumb for them to not see the end game ahead. Like five people have it, hmmm I wonder who are gonna be the final PK candidates.

And tbh I hate the vivre card thing, because it's completely dumb that it throws Sengoku in when there's nothing for him in the plot. But whatever.

Exactly my point; Sengoku has it out of nowhere? Kid was verbally confirmed in this arc despite never using it? Who else is gonna suddenly start knocking people out with nothing but their spirit? Sure, the tipping point is subjective, and it’s not like there’s any dramatic tension in regards to who will become Pirate King, but Chinjao even said there are plenty of motherfuckers out there who can do what they do with their CoC:

 

[Hiragaro]

has achieved everything through hard work and determination with no help from a devil fruit or a raid suit

So we ignoring magical swords again?

 

[Fn Lucci]

Only a small portion of the millions of people who live in America, but fewer people play the lottery than you probably think. Therein lies the dichotomy - if we look at CoC from a global standpoint, it’s still special; when we distill it down to how many people can use it out of the characters we’re focused on in the story, it’s significantly less unique.

Exactly my point; Sengoku has it out of nowhere? Kid was verbally confirmed in this arc despite never using it? Who else is gonna suddenly start knocking people out with nothing but their spirit? Sure, the tipping point is subjective, and it’s not like there’s any dramatic tension in regards to who will become Pirate King, but Chinjao even said there are plenty of motherfuckers out there who can do what they do with their CoC:

I love that speech because to me, the only thing more intimidating than a phenomenal gift is the fact that there are countless people out here with that phenomenal gift or a greater one. CoC is great to me in the respect of characters who want to exceed those others and have the ethic to match confidence.

So honestly I wouldn't care much if the number of characters we know were reduced... but then it went to Zoro anyway. All I ask really is that it serves a purpose, and so far in this case I'd argue for anyone but fucking Sengoku

 

[trav]

I would prefer if he did not have it.
Zoro is about willpower and dedication, not heritage and destiny.

stuff like that can really ruin the character for me.

 

[Patapujuro]

So we ignoring magical swords again?

A "magical sword" that only Oden has ever tamed since its creation by Kozaburo (so at least 50 years).
Rather than giving "magical abilities" to Zoro, it forced Zoro to constantly fight against Enma's CoA sucking ability while training to master the sword.
The more he fought against Enma's will, the more his haki bloomed ... thus constituting his own ways of extreme conditions (despite not having defeated any YC).

 

[Hiragaro]

A "magical sword" that only Oden has ever tamed since its creation by Kozaburo (so at least 50 years).
Rather than giving "magical abilities" to Zoro, it forced Zoro to constantly fight against Enma's CoA sucking ability while training to master the sword.
The more he fought against Enma's will, the more his haki bloomed ... thus constituting his own ways of extreme conditions (despite not having defeated any YC).

Yeah it looked sooooo hard to controll it. The next time we saw Zoro he was cutting bamboo, that was his whole training. And this is comparable to a fight like Katakuri? Lmao
Zoro was lucky he already had a sword that was made by the same guy as emna - which made it alot easier to get used too.
Training or not, the magical abilities of the swords are not his own power. He is not different from Luffy and his DF and Sanji and his RS, all need too practice to get used to it.

 

[Patapujuro]

Yeah it looked sooooo hard to controll it. The next time we saw Zoro he was cutting bamboo, that was his whole training. And this is comparable to a fight like Katakuri? Lmao
Zoro was lucky he already had a sword that was made by the same guy as emna - which made it alot easier to get used too.
Training or not, the magical abilities of the swords are not his own power. He is not different from Luffy and his DF and Sanji and his RS, all need too practice to get used to it.

And what are the "magical abilities" Zoro got with Enma then ? How can he use them ?
:zorothink:

 

[nik87]

And what are the "magical abilities" Zoro got with Enma then ? How can he use them ?
:zorothink:

You point Enma towards a fish that became a dragon and say: Die!
It drops dead.

 

[Luffy bin Dragon]

Yeah it looked sooooo hard to controll it. The next time we saw Zoro he was cutting bamboo, that was his whole training. And this is comparable to a fight like Katakuri? Lmao
Zoro was lucky he already had a sword that was made by the same guy as emna - which made it alot easier to get used too.
Training or not, the magical abilities of the swords are not his own power. He is not different from Luffy and his DF and Sanji and his RS, all need too practice to get used to it.

What magical abilities? Bringing out Haki yes that's comparable to the RS

 

[Hiragaro]

And what are the "magical abilities" Zoro got with Enma then ? How can he use them ?
:zorothink:

Emna is not the only magical sword. Zoro also got a cursed sword, which gave him demonic abilities and Emna is literaly alive. You think Emna won't boost him in a magical way? lmao