Chapter Discussion Zoro vs King and Zoro vs Enma needed separate revaluations

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Herrera95

#21
#21
Albino 👑 said:
Ok then his better mastery of enma allowed him to come to the realization he had it. The main point is he never unlocked conquerors in order to bypass lunarian defense or beat king
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I would say that his mastery didn't changed at all since he is not using Enma light as feather as he stated Oden probably used it. He just changed his strategy from holding back his power because of Enma to unleashing everything he got also because of Enma.

And like I said. It does seems he needed CoC coat to hurt Lunarians FLAMES ON. But talking about Flames Off lunarians you are right.
 
Albino 👑

Albino 👑

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#22
#22
ShadowStyle369 said:
What’s crazy is you can headcannon that king made a stupid decision and turned off his flame which lead to his defeat… and yet u can ignore zoro entire statement at the end of the fight that because of what he can do now ( adv coc) king is finally scared of him even with his flame on show me a panel at any point in the fight where king was afraid of zoro with his flame on? You can not find such a panel the only thing you will find is king tanking black rope dragon twister an attack that worked on kaido…. Zoro using shi shi son son and saying it didn’t work… zoro stabbing flame on king which resulted in king blowing up and not being fazed at all. I grasp and understand the importance of the flame needing to be off but again how do we get to that moment where the flame gets turned off ??? You have to scare them just like zoro did king with adv coc he’ll just look at the seraphim luffy can not get the flame to go out and he is not using adv coc 😂
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King was going in and out of flame mode throughout the whole fight so he really wasn’t doing anything different. Zoro taunted him so instead of staying on the defensive and just blocking with his flame he decided to try and win by going on the offensive and overpowering him
Character aren’t perfect robots that always make the perfect decisions. It’s ok for characters to have pride, quirks, or even flaws

I didn’t ignore it and addressed the statement multiple times. Zoro taunted king to stop blocking with his flame and actually fight him if his attacks truly aren’t doing much

??? Zoro only figured out how kings body worked after those attacks and after he got enma under control

King was never afraid of what zoro could do while his flame was on but while it was off.
  1. That’s the whole reason he hesitated to out of flame mode as zoro called him out
  2. The whole reason zoro multiple times throughout the fight before and after using conquerors needed to figure out how his body worked
  3. The whole reason zoro is still fighting the seraphim not mentioning conquerors while explaining how lunarians work. All the while wasting time, stamina, and getting frustrated that they won’t turn it off
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Herrera95 said:
I would say that his mastery didn't changed at all since he is not using Enma light as feather as he stated Oden probably used it. He just changed his strategy from holding back his power because of Enma to unleashing everything he got also because of Enma.

And like I said. It does seems he needed CoC coat to hurt Lunarians FLAMES ON. But talking about Flames Off lunarians you are right.
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Show me a panel of zoro hurting or even saying you can hurt lunarians with conquerors
 
ShadowStyle369

ShadowStyle369

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#23
#23
Albino 👑 said:
King was going in and out of flame mode throughout the whole fight so he really wasn’t doing anything different. Zoro taunted him so instead of staying on the defensive and just blocking with his flame he decided to try and win by going on the offensive and overpowering him
Character aren’t perfect robots that always make the perfect decisions. It’s ok for characters to have pride, quirks, or even flaws

I didn’t ignore it and addressed the statement multiple times. Zoro taunted king to stop blocking with his flame and actually fight him if his attacks truly aren’t doing much

??? Zoro only figured out how kings body worked after those attacks and after he got enma under control

King was never afraid of what zoro could do while his flame was on but while it was off.
  1. That’s the whole reason he hesitated to out of flame mode as zoro called him out
  2. The whole reason zoro multiple times throughout the fight before and after using conquerors needed to figure out how his body worked
  3. The whole reason zoro is still fighting the seraphim not mentioning conquerors while explaining how lunarians work. All the while wasting time, stamina, and getting frustrated that they won’t turn it off
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Show me a panel of zoro hurting or even saying you can hurt lunarians with conquerors
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Well by this logic the perfect little seraphim beings will just never turn off flame on mode and yonko luffy finna just lose all his stamina and take a major L here because he is not using adv coc same for zoro 😂 this is so dumb u have luffy yelling out to these kids the flame won’t go out… u have lucci saying his attacks are pointless… why aren’t the little kids turning off there flames and showing pride, quirks, or flaws and fighting straight up and losing to luffy and company ?
 
Albino 👑

Albino 👑

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#24
#24
ShadowStyle369 said:
Well by this logic the perfect little seraphim beings will just never turn off flame on mode and yonko luffy finna just lose all his stamina and take a major L here because he is not using adv coc same for zoro 😂 this is so dumb u have luffy yelling out to these kids the flame won’t go out… u have lucci saying his attacks are pointless… why aren’t the little kids turning off there flames and showing pride, quirks, or flaws and fighting straight up and losing to luffy and company ?
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The entire problem everyone is having (zoro included) is that they aren’t turning off their flame. Meaning they’re all going to figure out a way for them to turn it off

Believing only characters with conquerors can defeat a lunarian is honestly straight up dumb. Like imagine believing characters like sanji, lucci, kid, law, or hell even the admirals can’t beat them cause no conquerors… Hell we might even see the weaker strawhats figure it out and hurt them

Also you’re comparing different characters with different goals. The seraphim literally being cyborgs made to follow whatever orders given to them to a t
 
ShadowStyle369

ShadowStyle369

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#25
#25
Albino 👑 said:
The entire problem everyone is having (zoro included) is that they aren’t turning off their flame. Meaning they’re all going to figure out a way for them to turn it off

Believing only characters with conquerors can defeat a lunarian is honestly straight up dumb. Like imagine believing characters like sanji, lucci, kid, law, or hell even the admirals can’t beat them cause no conquerors… Hell we might even see the weaker strawhats figure it out and hurt them

Also you’re comparing different characters with different goals. The seraphim literally being cyborgs made to follow whatever orders given to them to a t
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And that way for luffy and zoro to make them turn off there flames is to scare them with adv coc haki that’s all I’m arguing here…. I have said in a post to you before that others can beat them like for instance if s shark turns his flame off I believe sanji is fast enough to defeat him in that moment…. Vegapunk talked about lasers so maybe that’s franky answer… to me at least the only people that can beat flame on lunarians are adv coc haki people because adult kings actions proved at the end of the fight he did not want to take hits from zoro with his flame on… if someone can catch them with there flame off then sure they can win but unless they are cutting it on/off they can simply keep the flame on like the seraphim are doing and tank everything
 
Albino 👑

Albino 👑

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#26
#26
ShadowStyle369 said:
And that way for luffy and zoro to make them turn off there flames is to scare them with adv coc haki that’s all I’m arguing here…. I have said in a post to you before that others can beat them like for instance if s shark turns his flame off I believe sanji is fast enough to defeat him in that moment…. Vegapunk talked about lasers so maybe that’s franky answer… to me at least the only people that can beat flame on lunarians are adv coc haki people because adult kings actions proved at the end of the fight he did not want to take hits from zoro with his flame on… if someone can catch them with there flame off then sure they can win but unless they are cutting it on/off they can simply keep the flame on like the seraphim are doing and tank everything
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  1. King was never scared of what zoro could do to him while his flame his on but what he could do when he turned it off. With him going on and off throughout the whole fight
  2. Zoro never showed or insinuated he can hurt a flame on lunarian. Not against king or the seraphim
  3. It was never hinted that conquerors is one of the ways or the only way to hurt a lunarian
 
ShadowStyle369

ShadowStyle369

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#27
#27
Albino 👑 said:
  1. King was never scared of what zoro could do to him while his flame his on but what he could do when he turned it off. With him going on and off throughout the whole fight
  2. Zoro never showed or insinuated he can hurt a flame on lunarian. Not against king or the seraphim
  3. It was never hinted that conquerors is one of the ways or the only way to hurt a lunarian
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1. So zoro lied king didn’t make a scared face after zoro called him out in his practically invincible mode ??? That’s not a manga panel ??

2. obviously I never said zoro did it or insinuated it… I’m saying look at king the lunarian with a practically invincible mode he was the one that insinuated he could be hurt by adv coc after he got called out by zoro…. Don’t u think if adv coc couldn’t do it king would have said something or let zoro cut him like he did all during the fight? After shi shi son son which did no damage king took it upon himself to get a easy attack in on zoro. King rushes in and let’s zoro stab him to get off jackpot. All this letting zoro attack him went out the window when adv coc got introduced king started behaving differently and zoro called him out on this

3.again what was established is that with adv coc u can scare a adult lunarian to fight differently…. From tanking everything to turning off the flame where he could get hurt, of course if a lunarian/seraphim is caught with flame off it’s gonna do damage that’s why I said others like sanji etc could win and even vegapunk was afraid of lasers touching the seraphim
 
Albino 👑

Albino 👑

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#28
#28
ShadowStyle369 said:
1. So zoro lied king didn’t make a scared face after zoro called him out in his practically invincible mode ??? That’s not a manga panel ??

2. obviously I never said zoro did it or insinuated it… I’m saying look at king the lunarian with a practically invincible mode he was the one that insinuated he could be hurt by adv coc after he got called out by zoro…. Don’t u think if adv coc couldn’t do it king would have said something or let zoro cut him like he did all during the fight? After shi shi son son which did no damage king took it upon himself to get a easy attack in on zoro. King rushes in and let’s zoro stab him to get off jackpot. All this letting zoro attack him went out the window when adv coc got introduced king started behaving differently and zoro called him out on this

3.again what was established is that with adv coc u can scare a adult lunarian to fight differently…. From tanking everything to turning off the flame where he could get hurt, of course if a lunarian/seraphim is caught with flame off it’s gonna do damage that’s why I said others like sanji etc could win and even vegapunk was afraid of lasers touching the seraphim
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  1. Again again again it was never about hurting king while his flame off. It was just him calling king too scared to go into his flame off mode and stop blocking with his flame
  2. Neither zoro or king insinuated that at all
    • ???Zoro figured out how his body worked so he had no need to waste energy trying to land attacks while his flame was on. Aka the whole point of the realization
    • Why would king let him be hit stunned or thrown around? Again it isn’t like he wasn’t blocking and dodging attacks pre conquerors. King started behaving differently because zoro figured out how to fight him lol the thing that kept being highlighted
  3. Nothing besides your imagination has established that as a fact. You do realize zoro was conserving power by not attacking him while his flame was on and waiting to attack when it was off right?
 
ShishioIsBack

ShishioIsBack

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#29
#29
Albino 👑 said:

While they obviously both happened during the same time they both required their own thing separate from the other.


Like zoro highlighted multiple times against king his main issue was that he didn’t understand how his body worked. With him obviously needing to understand how his lunarian body works to have a chance of winning


When it comes zoro struggling with enma the main reason was because the blade was testing him. Enma was pushing zoro to his limits by forcing out as much haki as possible. It was only till zoro fully excepted the challenge and not only that but emposed his will on it. He took its moniker along with unlocking conquerors in the process.


A lot of the confusion is while they’re separate revelations they both became fully realized pretty much at the same time. Him passing enma’s test and unlocking conquerors in the process + him figuring out how kings lunarian body works are still 2 separate things that aren’t a necessity for the other.
Even in king of hell mode all zoro and king were highlighting was zoro figuring out his body.
  1. Conquerors was never unlocked to counter and beat king
  2. It was never necessary to hurt him
  3. Zoro never needed it to hurt lunarian in general
  4. It really had nothing to do with him
  5. People without conquerors can hurt and even beat lunarian
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Yes so Zoro basically defeated strongest YC1 and sword that requires Yonko level+ Haki at the same time while being on a time limit from drugs and heavily Haki depleted
 
ShadowStyle369

ShadowStyle369

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#31
#31
Albino 👑 said:
  1. Again again again it was never about hurting king while his flame off. It was just him calling king too scared to go into his flame off mode and stop blocking with his flame
  2. Neither zoro or king insinuated that at all
    • ???Zoro figured out how his body worked so he had no need to waste energy trying to land attacks while his flame was on. Aka the whole point of the realization
    • Why would king let him be hit stunned or thrown around? Again it isn’t like he wasn’t blocking and dodging attacks pre conquerors. King started behaving differently because zoro figured out how to fight him lol the thing that kept being highlighted
  3. Nothing besides your imagination has established that as a fact. You do realize zoro was conserving power by not attacking him while his flame was on and waiting to attack when it was off right?
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1.no 😂😂😂 this was about zoro noticing that king was blocking his attacks in flame on mode are you blind to the panel where zoro says OHHH!!! That’s why zoro proceeds to question king WHY BOTHER BLOCK MY ATTACKS UNLESS YOU ARE SCARED OF WHAT I CAN DO TO YOU. all the while the practically invincible mode is on and king shows a scared reaction.

2.yes zoro figured out how to fight king 😂😂😂 but adv coc was what made king turn off the flame on mode how can you be so blind to this when luffy and zoro are struggling the same way like zoro vs king and the key factor here is they are not using adv coc

3.yes I realize this… zoro uses koh oni giri sees flame on says it’s pointless to attack, king keeps flame on and tries to steal blades and zoro stops him then he turns off flame to gain speed and kick him and zoro realizes flame off and uses bird dance to counter…. King turns flames back on right after this and admits that zoro has figured out the rules of his body to which zoro responds that’s right finally envisioning your defeat all the while ZORO IS STILL ATTACKING KING then zoro realizes something OHHH!!!!! King is shown blocking attacks with his flame on to which zoro responds why bother block my attacks I thought they did nothing to you unless you’re scared of what I can do! This isn’t zoro calling out king to cut his flame off 😂😂😂 this is zoro calling out king being afraid of him which his reaction proves this.
 
ImmaIvanoM

ImmaIvanoM

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#32
#32
ShishioIsBack said:
Yonko level+ Haki a
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@ShadowStyle369
Nope, the point of the thread is that king DOES NOT require Yonko level+ haki… King only requires that you wait for him to stupidly remove his defense

As it stands, Yonko level+ haki HAS NEVER damaged a lunarian in flame mode on panel, and Zoro fully believes EVEN Luffy cannot do it… this is Zoro btw, the man with all the faith in Luffy in the world… Zoro literally tells Luffy who he knows defeated kaido, that he too has to wait for the seraphim’s to stupidly make themselves beatable

The one and only demonstrated and stated way to beat lunarians remains… the lunarians stupidly making themselves beatable on purpose
 
ShadowStyle369

ShadowStyle369

‎
#33
#33
ImmaIvanoM said:
@ShadowStyle369
Nope, the point of the thread is that king DOES NOT require Yonko level+ haki… King only requires that you wait for him to stupidly remove his defense

As it stands, Yonko level+ haki HAS NEVER damaged a lunarian in flame mode on panel, and Zoro fully believes EVEN Luffy cannot do it… this is Zoro btw, the man with all the faith in Luffy in the world… Zoro literally tells Luffy who he knows defeated kaido, that he too has to wait for the seraphim’s to stupidly make themselves beatable

The one and only demonstrated and stated way to beat lunarians remains… the lunarians stupidly making themselves beatable on purpose
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Again this is dumb 😂😂😂 ur willing to say that king was dumb enough to just turn off his flame when the manga tells you that it was because he was scared of zoro and what he could do to him, the seraphim backs this logic as they are not stupidly turning off there flame… wait until luffy bust out adv coc then u will see
 
CbShadow

CbShadow

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#34
#34
ImmaIvanoM said:
@ShadowStyle369
Nope, the point of the thread is that king DOES NOT require Yonko level+ haki… King only requires that you wait for him to stupidly remove his defense

As it stands, Yonko level+ haki HAS NEVER damaged a lunarian in flame mode on panel, and Zoro fully believes EVEN Luffy cannot do it… this is Zoro btw, the man with all the faith in Luffy in the world… Zoro literally tells Luffy who he knows defeated kaido, that he too has to wait for the seraphim’s to stupidly make themselves beatable

The one and only demonstrated and stated way to beat lunarians remains… the lunarians stupidly making themselves beatable on purpose
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As I said earlier, why didn't Luffy try ACoC against the seraphims who he compared to Kaido. That was before Zoro explained to everyone how their body works.
 
ShishioIsBack

ShishioIsBack

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#35
#35
ImmaIvanoM said:
@ShadowStyle369
Nope, the point of the thread is that king DOES NOT require Yonko level+ haki… King only requires that you wait for him to stupidly remove his defense

As it stands, Yonko level+ haki HAS NEVER damaged a lunarian in flame mode on panel, and Zoro fully believes EVEN Luffy cannot do it… this is Zoro btw, the man with all the faith in Luffy in the world… Zoro literally tells Luffy who he knows defeated kaido, that he too has to wait for the seraphim’s to stupidly make themselves beatable

The one and only demonstrated and stated way to beat lunarians remains… the lunarians stupidly making themselves beatable on purpose
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Zoros Haki is far above Luffys imo
Offensively at least
Luffy has sky splitting useless Pokémon power tho but as we saw with Garp and Aokiji..totally irrelevant
 
Albino 👑

Albino 👑

‎
#36
#36
ShadowStyle369 said:
1.no 😂😂😂 this was about zoro noticing that king was blocking his attacks in flame on mode are you blind to the panel where zoro says OHHH!!! That’s why zoro proceeds to question king WHY BOTHER BLOCK MY ATTACKS UNLESS YOU ARE SCARED OF WHAT I CAN DO TO YOU. all the while the practically invincible mode is on and king shows a scared reaction.

2.yes zoro figured out how to fight king 😂😂😂 but adv coc was what made king turn off the flame on mode how can you be so blind to this when luffy and zoro are struggling the same way like zoro vs king and the key factor here is they are not using adv coc

3.yes I realize this… zoro uses koh oni giri sees flame on says it’s pointless to attack, king keeps flame on and tries to steal blades and zoro stops him then he turns off flame to gain speed and kick him and zoro realizes flame off and uses bird dance to counter…. King turns flames back on right after this and admits that zoro has figured out the rules of his body to which zoro responds that’s right finally envisioning your defeat all the while ZORO IS STILL ATTACKING KING then zoro realizes something OHHH!!!!! King is shown blocking attacks with his flame on to which zoro responds why bother block my attacks I thought they did nothing to you unless you’re scared of what I can do! This isn’t zoro calling out king to cut his flame off 😂😂😂 this is zoro calling out king being afraid of him which his reaction proves this.
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  1. Dude….again….he was blocking and dodging attacks even before conquerors came into the equation
    • What makes more sense to you right after king gave zoro props for figuring out how his body works?
      1. Zoro saying king is scared to take attack in flame on mode with king responding by not using his flame on mode to take attack. With zoro never using conquerors to counter lunarians since
      2. Zoro saying king is too scared get out of his flame mode to block attacks. With king proving him wrong by turning it off and trying to defeat him on the offensive
  2. ….I don’t know how you don’t remember or realize king was going in and out of flame mode even prior to conquerors so that’s just straight up wrong. Zoro is getting frustrated fighting the seraphim all the while wasting stamina, time, and complaining about them not turning their flame off. None of which hints to zoro being beyond retarded and not realizing he wouldn’t be putting everyone through this situation if he just knew conquerors worked the entire time so they could have been escaping
  3. Dude his flame blocks attacks. It not about him blocking while he has his flame on because he’s literally able to block attacks with his flame. You know how dumb it would be for zoro to find out how his body works just to realize it was pointless because it doesn’t matter wether or not it was even on. Just to not remember when fighting the seraphim on a time crunch
 
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