Future Events The Great Debate - Will Zoro kill Kaido this arc?

After reading 1002 chapters, what you think zoro will do against kaido?


  • Total voters
    184

Cinera

𝐀𝐬𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐌𝐚𝐬𝐜𝐡𝐞𝐧𝐧𝐲 𝐏𝐞𝐭
Massive chapter for ZKK.

It is now an active question in the series- what would happen if Zoro hit Kaido with Hiryu Kaen? We’re no longer in the realms of fan speculation here, it’s a real, in-series question. It’s not a question like “could Zoro cut a Poneglyph?” That’s something that has never been asked in series, it’s something we as fans may question, but it doesn’t exist as plotpoint in series. Zoro atatcking Kaido now does.

And Oda doesn’t just hype up the attack by having it take off the horn. That would be great enough in it’s own right. No, he has Big Mom hype it up as well. It’s always the most solid hype a character can get, when known qualities comment or compare. Big Mom knows Kaido, she herself is a top tier, she’s seen countless powerful figures fight, she just had an hours (days?) long fight against Kaido, she’s watched Kaido tank attacks from the Worst Gen... and she does not want Kaido to take that attack from Zoro. That’s huge. No, it does not automatically scream ZKK, but it does let us know that Big Mom thinks it will be bad for Kaido to take that attack.

Then there’s the symbolism of the attack itself. Only previous use by Zoro- beating Ryuma. The purpose of which, to get his sword (and Brooks shadow). And Ryuma himself is famous primarily for killing a dragon in defence of Wano, and as we’ve seen from Monsters, using an attack that is exactly like Hiryu.

The very last thing we saw of Zoro before Act 2 finished was Tengu telling him he could one day make Enma a black blade. It was also in Act 2 we discovered that Ryuma made his own black blade, and that black blades were in fact something that a swordsman had to do himself, and wasn’t just how they were forged. So, Zoro’s previous use of Hiryu Kaen was to win a black blade from the swordsman famous for killing a dragon, a black blade that Zoro then gave up for one he could potentially upgrade himself.

That means we’ve got two active questions around Zoro:
-what will happen when Zoro hits Kaido with Hiryu Kaen, using Enma?
-when will Zoro make Enma a black blade?

Quite easy to see Oda answering both those questions at the same time, isn’t it? Certainly, there was no need for us to know in Act 2 that Zoro could promote Enma. Oda could have saved that information for after the fight- have Tengu say “so you fought with Enma? You know, you might be abke to push it a step forward in your travels.” It isn’t information that was vital for us to know right now, which heavily suggests that Enma will be made a black blade in Wano itself. And that could easily be in a great Ryuma parallel- slaying a dragon in defence of Wano, using the exact same technique. There certainly won’t be another opponent as perfect as Kaido, who ties Zoro, Oden, Ryuma, Enma, Shusui and Wano all together.

And it’s important to mention Oden because again, we’ve got a heavy, heavy dose of inherited will going on here. Kaido can sense Oden in Enma, the same way he could see Oden in the Scabbards. There’s always been a heavy spirituality, an animism around swords in One Piece. Swords choose the wielder, we were told on Loguetown (the wand chooses the wizard, Mr Potter). Tashigi wants to stop the swords “from crying”- that gives them sentience, feelings. Zoro can sense swords somehow. Ryuma’s body feels that Shusui would have been satisfied with Zoro- not that Ryuma would be happy, but the sword itself. Zoro lays Yubashiri to just with Brook’s crew- it was his comrade, just as they were to him, just as the Merry was to Strawhats.

And then we got Kawamatsu in Ringo, just before Zoro got Enma. When a samurai dies, his comrades pick up his sword and fight on. The fight ain’t over with death. Kuina dies, Zoro takes her sword to live out both their dream, inheriting her will. Oden dies, now Zoro’s taken his sword into battle, to inherit his will. Does that will, like Ryuma’s mean, killing Kaido? It’s certainly what Oden said he wanted to do.

It certainly all adds up. Much in the same way, I would say, as the information all added up to Sanji making a cake on WCI, even prior to the Tea Party.
Big Mom has an eating disease? Well, that has to come into play. She wants a cake? Well, what happens if she doesn’t get it? The Vinsmokes think Sanji is garbage for being a chef? How could Sanji’s cooking prove them wrong? That all added up. What do we have here?
Kaido wants to die? How could that be fulfilled? Zoro will one day make a black blade of Enma? What’s the perfect time for that to happen? A dragon was famously killed above the skies of the flower capital? Could that happen again?

ZKK is something that needs to be treated as a serious, serious possibility in series.
@Garp the Fist is the new prophet of ZKK.

Well said, I don't really have anything constructive to add.

I guess one thing I can say was that the Ryuma symbolism was very gratuitous. Oda did not need to have Zoro:
  • Use the same attack he used to defeat Ryuma.
  • With an attack posture and stance that mirrored Ryuma's own Dragon Slaying feat.
Oda intentionally did this. He chose to draw a Dragon Slaying moment with heavy parallels to Ryuma's:




I can only imagine that it was too early (for the purpose of depicting an exciting fight and narrative purposes (the legend needs to be replicated over the Flower Capital)), but this does heavily foreshadow that the legend shall be replicated eventually.

Even if Zoro doesn't kill Kaido, I see him landing the final blow that fells him.

@Bogard.
 
Last edited:

HA001

World's Strongest Swordsman
Massive chapter for ZKK.

It is now an active question in the series- what would happen if Zoro hit Kaido with Hiryu Kaen? We’re no longer in the realms of fan speculation here, it’s a real, in-series question. It’s not a question like “could Zoro cut a Poneglyph?” That’s something that has never been asked in series, it’s something we as fans may question, but it doesn’t exist as plotpoint in series. Zoro atatcking Kaido now does.

And Oda doesn’t just hype up the attack by having it take off the horn. That would be great enough in it’s own right. No, he has Big Mom hype it up as well. It’s always the most solid hype a character can get, when known qualities comment or compare. Big Mom knows Kaido, she herself is a top tier, she’s seen countless powerful figures fight, she just had an hours (days?) long fight against Kaido, she’s watched Kaido tank attacks from the Worst Gen... and she does not want Kaido to take that attack from Zoro. That’s huge. No, it does not automatically scream ZKK, but it does let us know that Big Mom thinks it will be bad for Kaido to take that attack.

Then there’s the symbolism of the attack itself. Only previous use by Zoro- beating Ryuma. The purpose of which, to get his sword (and Brooks shadow). And Ryuma himself is famous primarily for killing a dragon in defence of Wano, and as we’ve seen from Monsters, using an attack that is exactly like Hiryu.

The very last thing we saw of Zoro before Act 2 finished was Tengu telling him he could one day make Enma a black blade. It was also in Act 2 we discovered that Ryuma made his own black blade, and that black blades were in fact something that a swordsman had to do himself, and wasn’t just how they were forged. So, Zoro’s previous use of Hiryu Kaen was to win a black blade from the swordsman famous for killing a dragon, a black blade that Zoro then gave up for one he could potentially upgrade himself.

That means we’ve got two active questions around Zoro:
-what will happen when Zoro hits Kaido with Hiryu Kaen, using Enma?
-when will Zoro make Enma a black blade?

Quite easy to see Oda answering both those questions at the same time, isn’t it? Certainly, there was no need for us to know in Act 2 that Zoro could promote Enma. Oda could have saved that information for after the fight- have Tengu say “so you fought with Enma? You know, you might be abke to push it a step forward in your travels.” It isn’t information that was vital for us to know right now, which heavily suggests that Enma will be made a black blade in Wano itself. And that could easily be in a great Ryuma parallel- slaying a dragon in defence of Wano, using the exact same technique. There certainly won’t be another opponent as perfect as Kaido, who ties Zoro, Oden, Ryuma, Enma, Shusui and Wano all together.

And it’s important to mention Oden because again, we’ve got a heavy, heavy dose of inherited will going on here. Kaido can sense Oden in Enma, the same way he could see Oden in the Scabbards. There’s always been a heavy spirituality, an animism around swords in One Piece. Swords choose the wielder, we were told on Loguetown (the wand chooses the wizard, Mr Potter). Tashigi wants to stop the swords “from crying”- that gives them sentience, feelings. Zoro can sense swords somehow. Ryuma’s body feels that Shusui would have been satisfied with Zoro- not that Ryuma would be happy, but the sword itself. Zoro lays Yubashiri to just with Brook’s crew- it was his comrade, just as they were to him, just as the Merry was to Strawhats.

And then we got Kawamatsu in Ringo, just before Zoro got Enma. When a samurai dies, his comrades pick up his sword and fight on. The fight ain’t over with death. Kuina dies, Zoro takes her sword to live out both their dream, inheriting her will. Oden dies, now Zoro’s taken his sword into battle, to inherit his will. Does that will, like Ryuma’s mean, killing Kaido? It’s certainly what Oden said he wanted to do.

It certainly all adds up. Much in the same way, I would say, as the information all added up to Sanji making a cake on WCI, even prior to the Tea Party.
Big Mom has an eating disease? Well, that has to come into play. She wants a cake? Well, what happens if she doesn’t get it? The Vinsmokes think Sanji is garbage for being a chef? How could Sanji’s cooking prove them wrong? That all added up. What do we have here?
Kaido wants to die? How could that be fulfilled? Zoro will one day make a black blade of Enma? What’s the perfect time for that to happen? A dragon was famously killed above the skies of the flower capital? Could that happen again?

ZKK is something that needs to be treated as a serious, serious possibility in series.
lmfao bro you almost on board
i remember our chat on it a while back you were still on the fence about it but i can see you edging closer toward it

@Garp the Fist is the new prophet of ZKK.

Well said, I don't really have anything constructive to add.

I guess one thing I can say was that the Ryuma symbolism was very gratuitous. Oda did not need to have Zoro:
  • Use the same attack he used to defeat Ryuma.
  • With an attack posture and stance that mirrored Ryuma's own Dragon Slaying feat.
Oda intentionally did this. He chose to draw a Dragon Slaying moment with heavy parallels to Ryuma's:




I can only imagine that it was too early (for the purpose of depicting an exciting fight and narrative purposes (the legend needs to be replicated over the Flower Capital)), but this does heavily foreshadow that the legend shall be replicated eventually.

Even if Zoro doesn't kill Kaido, I see him landing the final blow that fells him.

@Bogard.
this was huge its nigh identical and the image is in your head of zoro doing the same
 
This is the dumbest shit to say when reading a Shonen Manga, it's like saying Gohan is fucking useless because he didn't do shit at the start of the battle. :seriously:
Mate ok, when Zoro does something to Kaido come and talk. Like the max he'll ever do is him + Killer finishing the job of the Scabbards for making the wound reopen.

Even then, I doubt Oda would throw the Scabbards' effort way and will mention they weakened the scar, even if they failed to open it.
 
I have not been here for long, but I am seeing that here on Worstgen the ZKK theory is very well received and liked by many people. Many thinks it makes a lot of sense etc.

I have been on reddit for much longer and the vast majority of people see it as straight up delusional, moronic, or at least not very likely.

It's crazy how much perspective changes when you are in another place :myman:
 

Cinera

𝐀𝐬𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐌𝐚𝐬𝐜𝐡𝐞𝐧𝐧𝐲 𝐏𝐞𝐭
I have not been here for long, but I am seeing that here on Worstgen the ZKK theory is very well received and liked by many people. Many thinks it makes a lot of sense etc.

I have been on reddit for much longer and the vast majority of people see it as straight up delusional, moronic, or at least not very likely.

It's crazy how much perspective changes when you are in another place :myman:
I'll probably make a grand ZKK compilation next month. A "master theory" so to speak.
 
I have not been here for long, but I am seeing that here on Worstgen the ZKK theory is very well received and liked by many people. Many thinks it makes a lot of sense etc.

I have been on reddit for much longer and the vast majority of people see it as straight up delusional, moronic, or at least not very likely.

It's crazy how much perspective changes when you are in another place :myman:
reddit is a Luffy and Sanji heavy circlejerk.
pro Zoro posts receive downvotes.

even as a Zoro fan I did not believe in ZKK, but whoever denies even a possibility for it after 1002 has lost control of all their senses.
 
reddit is a Luffy and Sanji heavy circlejerk.
pro Zoro posts receive downvotes.

even as a Zoro fan I did not believe in ZKK, but whoever denies even a possibility for it after 1002 has lost control of all their senses.
No one saying it’s not possible there’s evidence of it but you think evidence= gonna happen. Think about the aftermath what if Yamato joins the crew would Oda seriously make her join with her fathers killer? Think about the banquet after for example
 

HA001

World's Strongest Swordsman
No one saying it’s not possible there’s evidence of it but you think evidence= gonna happen. Think about the aftermath what if Yamato joins the crew would Oda seriously make her join with her fathers killer? Think about the banquet after for example
Stupid example.
She cut ties with him after she saw he actually put cuffs that would kill her on. "He is no longer my father"
 
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