Anime & Manga King's Match-Up Bet Thread
- Thread starter Monkey D. Luffy
- Start date
50/50. I've been telling peeps to wait and see how the rooftop battle unfolds. Think Luffy fought Crocodile in 3 separate locations or Enel, Lucci, Moria and Doflamingo in 2.
We have to see how Kaido's hybrid is dealt with. Its very possible something just happens with the island or he just mollywops everyone temporarily. We pretty much don't know if that rooftop battle is the actual, final battle, or just an initial battle location to have Kaido defeat everyone who walks up to him.
At the moment, my theory involves the island crashing while Kaido is owning everyone. This separates all 5 supernova from the 2 Yonko. Zoro gets Sandai destroyed. Tengu gives him Nidai. I STILL think Kozaburo is in Wano or is showing up, potentially to explain his lineage as a Shimotsuki. After that, Zoro gets his 1v1 battle later on, defeats King, then comes back to pull his Ryuuma moment in Wano, tying the ENTIRE Shimtosuki plotline together
. This is why I also don't personally see any of the calamity battles starting right this second. Sanji is still stuck with Black Maria. Jack is MIA. Marco is fighting King and Queen at the moment and we have no grasp on that particular situation.
One thing thats been more clear to me than ever is the fact that these battles are purely strawhat centric. 1003 showed that, while the CP-0 leader was talking, they HAVE to take out the executives, all while only showing Luffy's crew plus Yamato (which there is an argument to be made there too).
To me it doesn't make sense to have 8-9 underdog fights against Kaido's strongest members....then have Marco vs. King.
We have to see how Kaido's hybrid is dealt with. Its very possible something just happens with the island or he just mollywops everyone temporarily. We pretty much don't know if that rooftop battle is the actual, final battle, or just an initial battle location to have Kaido defeat everyone who walks up to him.
At the moment, my theory involves the island crashing while Kaido is owning everyone. This separates all 5 supernova from the 2 Yonko. Zoro gets Sandai destroyed. Tengu gives him Nidai. I STILL think Kozaburo is in Wano or is showing up, potentially to explain his lineage as a Shimotsuki. After that, Zoro gets his 1v1 battle later on, defeats King, then comes back to pull his Ryuuma moment in Wano, tying the ENTIRE Shimtosuki plotline together
. This is why I also don't personally see any of the calamity battles starting right this second. Sanji is still stuck with Black Maria. Jack is MIA. Marco is fighting King and Queen at the moment and we have no grasp on that particular situation.
One thing thats been more clear to me than ever is the fact that these battles are purely strawhat centric. 1003 showed that, while the CP-0 leader was talking, they HAVE to take out the executives, all while only showing Luffy's crew plus Yamato (which there is an argument to be made there too).
To me it doesn't make sense to have 8-9 underdog fights against Kaido's strongest members....then have Marco vs. King.
Zoro is far from an underdog vs King though? Like he's currently an even bigger favourite than Marco:
After the last 3 chapters, most people who read Zoro vs King would go in assured of Zoro's quick victory. Like it's not even clear that King gives Santoryu Zoro a solid high difficulty fight, let alone after Zoro fully adapts to Enma or if he gains the Nidai Kitetsu.
Marco vs King is more up in the air than Zoro vs King. Giving Zoro the ability to cut fire already removed most of the tension for the fight. Giving him offensive prowess that can terrify the Yonkou solidified that he's on another level entirely. Zoro vs King is the furthest thing from an underdog fight.
How exactly do you expect King to challenge Zoro?
- Homurasaki completely neutralises King's Wildfire
- Zoro is clearly a decently more powerful swordsman
- His Hiryuu Kaen terrified the Yonkou and is the only attack Kaido dodged (and which Mama felt the need to warn Kaido about)
- His mid tier technique (Kokujo Ou Tatsumaki) completely overwhelmed Kaido's Tatsumaki and badly cut him up with Kaido coughing up blood for 3 pages
- He's still adapting to Enma so he'll become even stronger
- He still has Asura
After the last 3 chapters, most people who read Zoro vs King would go in assured of Zoro's quick victory. Like it's not even clear that King gives Santoryu Zoro a solid high difficulty fight, let alone after Zoro fully adapts to Enma or if he gains the Nidai Kitetsu.
Marco vs King is more up in the air than Zoro vs King. Giving Zoro the ability to cut fire already removed most of the tension for the fight. Giving him offensive prowess that can terrify the Yonkou solidified that he's on another level entirely. Zoro vs King is the furthest thing from an underdog fight.
How exactly do you expect King to challenge Zoro?
Zoro can learn to fight flying opponents. 
Currently, Zoro has no problems with flying opponents:
- Kokujo Ou Tatsumaki covers a radius of a few hundred metres and is several hundred metres tall
- Hiryuu Kaen travelled several kilometres
- Zoro as his Pound Cannon techniques
- Zoro's nameless hardened slashes could already travel a kilometre+ in Dressrosa
King flying wouldn't trouble Zoro, he'll just snipe him with a flying slash. I'm not eager to read another Zoro vs Pica. Zoro literally does not grow out all by stomping King.
Zoro is far from an underdog vs King though? Like he's currently an even bigger favourite than Marco:
After the last 3 chapters, most people who read Zoro vs King would go in assured of Zoro's quick victory. Like it's not even clear that King gives Santoryu Zoro a solid high difficulty fight, let alone after Zoro fully adapts to Enma or if he gains the Nidai Kitetsu.
Marco vs King is more up in the air than Zoro vs King. Giving Zoro the ability to cut fire already removed most of the tension for the fight. Giving him offensive prowess that can terrify the Yonkou solidified that he's on another level entirely. Zoro vs King is the furthest thing from an underdog fight.
How exactly do you expect King to challenge Zoro?
- Homurasaki completely neutralises King's Wildfire
- Zoro is clearly a decently more powerful swordsman
- His Hiryuu Kaen terrified the Yonkou and is the only attack Kaido dodged (and which Mama felt the need to warn Kaido about)
- His mid tier technique (Kokujo Ou Tatsumaki) completely overwhelmed Kaido's Tatsumaki and badly cut him up with Kaido coughing up blood for 3 pages
- He's still adapting to Enma so he'll become even stronger
- He still has Asura
After the last 3 chapters, most people who read Zoro vs King would go in assured of Zoro's quick victory. Like it's not even clear that King gives Santoryu Zoro a solid high difficulty fight, let alone after Zoro fully adapts to Enma or if he gains the Nidai Kitetsu.
Marco vs King is more up in the air than Zoro vs King. Giving Zoro the ability to cut fire already removed most of the tension for the fight. Giving him offensive prowess that can terrify the Yonkou solidified that he's on another level entirely. Zoro vs King is the furthest thing from an underdog fight.
How exactly do you expect King to challenge Zoro?
What I mean by that is, we saw Luffy progressively get stronger, fighting Shichibukai of different strengths, to a Yonko commander, now to a full fledged Yonko. At some point Luffy is warranted some form of a 1v1. Its bound to happen and has yet to ever been taken away from him. Even Thriller bark, which had the whole crew fight Oars and Moria, still ended with a a fight between Luffy and Moria.
I just want the same logic applied to Zoro. I know Zoro is much stronger than he's let on so far in the new world. That much is entirely clear, but its about gate keeping. I think its a good "metric" to at least give Zoro a 1v1 fight against another swordsman, a Yonko Commander at that. Its been 550 chapters since his last decent swordsman fight (Ryuuma). I just personally want to see him surpass King, a meito user. Even if its a disadvantage (Zoro losing a sword or heavily injured from Kaido, etc.), I still think its a good idea to have.
Not only this, if the pattern is to have the other Strawhats (Yamato included lets say) fight the Beasts Pirate executives exclusively, then to me it just makes sense for a Strawhat to fight King. And if thats not Sanji because he's fighting Queen or Jinbe because he's fighting Jack/WsW, then it really should just be Zoro. I personally can't see Marco taking over the fight permanently. Its not Oda's style to have 2 similar characters in terms of strength just up and fight each other and dedicate time to it. It really doesn't get us anywhere because Marco is a secondary character in the story with no plot motivation to take out King (as opposed to something like Kyros vs Diamante, which was entirely warranted)
Its more of thinking about it in a rudimentary way: The Strawhats are the main characters and thus far, deserve every single fight against the Beast Pirates as a result. Zoro vs. King is 100% not a knock on Zoro. In fact, its the opposite to me. I'd personally love a solo battle to finally happen again for him. I'd also love for him to get that "moment" that everybody wants for him against Kaido. But again, entirely dependent on how Oda does the roof fight. I just think its way to early to determine whats going to go down up there.
Tldr: I just want Zoro to finally have another good swordsman fight and "grow", even if its at a disadvantage or something.
Edit: Also really, we don't really know much about King or how strong he is lol. Oda has written the commanders in such a way that all 3 have barely been able to show what they are made of yet. I don't think Zoro cutting Kaido particularly means he can't struggle against King or have a competent swordsman fight. Kaido has taken a stupid amount of hits from Luffy so far, yet someone like Doflamingo or Katakuri have dodge far more hits and taken less damage overall with other skills on display. Its not l'm trying to say King then has to be a god to fight Zoro. It can just be a more competent fight that doesn't just involve Zoro wailing on Kaido and us finding out it doesn't work (which so far, it hasn't been enough yet). That is boring in my opinion.
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But Zoro wouldn't "surpass" King. The story is depicting Zoro as significantly (if not considerably) stronger than him and hard countering his fighting style.
For Zoro to surpass King, King must be depicted as a wall that Zoro has to overcome — Oda depicted the exact opposite.
The Strawhats fighting the Beast Pirate executives is superseded by the Worst Generation defeating the Yonkou:
There is much more narrative setup for the Worst Generation defeating the Yonkou than only Strawhats fighting Beast Pirates.
King can't give this to Zoro.
Zoro has been depicted as being above Commanders.
It's not that King is weak. Zoro's current feats and portrayal are simply above YC 1s.
For Zoro to surpass King, King must be depicted as a wall that Zoro has to overcome — Oda depicted the exact opposite.
The Strawhats fighting the Beast Pirate executives is superseded by the Worst Generation defeating the Yonkou:
There is much more narrative setup for the Worst Generation defeating the Yonkou than only Strawhats fighting Beast Pirates.
King can't give this to Zoro.
- Zoro has been depicted as significantly stronger.
- Zoro has nothing to learn from fighting King.
- He already knows how to cut fire.
- He already knows how to fight flying opponents.
- His growth as a swordsman will come from mastering Enma.
Zoro has been depicted as being above Commanders.
- He cut through Queen's weapon with an air slash Queen couldn't react to and shocked Queen.
- He had the Yonkou terrified at his offensive prowess.
- He overwhelmed the named technique of a Yonkou and badly cut them up.
- He can cut fire.
- Mr. 1
- Ohm
- Kaku
- Ryuma
It's not that King is weak. Zoro's current feats and portrayal are simply above YC 1s.
- Kokujo Ou Tatsumaki (a mid tier technique from Zoro) overwhelmed Kaido's Tatsumaki and badly cut him up with him coughing up blood for three pages.
- Hiryuu Kaen (a lower high tier technique) terrified both Yonkou and made Mama warn Kaido to dodge.
For everyone on this list, the poll has been remade to view the votes. If you want to change your vote—I know some of you have changed to Team Marco—now is your time.
Team Zoro: @ShishioIsBack, @Dragomir, @RayanOO, @Red Admiral, @Sentinel, @Balen, @bhacha2000, @bennbeckman
Team Sanji: @Chrono, @Calypso, @Tobi, @Zoro D Goat, @kurwa
Team Jimbei: @critical mindset
Team Marco: @Cinera @Ice devil slayer
Team Izo(?): @NeutralWatcher (this is an obvious joke, but just in case)
Team Zoro: @ShishioIsBack, @Dragomir, @RayanOO, @Red Admiral, @Sentinel, @Balen, @bhacha2000, @bennbeckman
Team Sanji: @Chrono, @Calypso, @Tobi, @Zoro D Goat, @kurwa
Team Jimbei: @critical mindset
Team Marco: @Cinera @Ice devil slayer
Team Izo(?): @NeutralWatcher (this is an obvious joke, but just in case)