Future Events Why I am not Convinced that Luffy Defeats Kaido
What if they are given equal regard (like Law and Luffy got for Doffy).
Zoro's character arc in Wano culminated in an earth shattering declaration that he would cut Kaido down:
I feel like you didn't answer my question. I wasn't asking whether you thought that would happen, but if you would consider it Luffy defeating Kaido.
If Luffy beats Hybrid Kaido and knocks him out, but then Kaido rises again and transforms into Dragon form with Zoro cutting him down, would you consider that a Luffy victory?
As I've argued elsewhere in this thread, Wano is not a traditional arc.
I don't expect that to happen. Two ways I can see this happening:
I don't think either of this dehypes Luffy.
If Zoro doesn't finish Kaido, none of the above plot points would have a suitable payoff:
I don't agree that Zoro failing to land the final blow is no big deal.
Luffy has the opportunity of beating Kaido in combat, but Kaido recovers and is finally cut down by Zoro. I don't really see how that dehypes Luffy in the slightest.
Regarding your first point about Luffy repeatedly stating his desire to defeat the Yonkou and Admirals:
I don't think those statements are as strong because they were directed at a group.
His statements about Kaido in particular are persuasive though.
Zoro's character arc in Wano culminated in an earth shattering declaration that he would cut Kaido down:
I feel like you didn't answer my question. I wasn't asking whether you thought that would happen, but if you would consider it Luffy defeating Kaido.
If Luffy beats Hybrid Kaido and knocks him out, but then Kaido rises again and transforms into Dragon form with Zoro cutting him down, would you consider that a Luffy victory?
As I've argued elsewhere in this thread, Wano is not a traditional arc.
Sure, that's the traditional argument, but Wano is not a traditional arc.
Wano is uncharted territory. Were it a traditional arc, Zoro would not have been on the Rooftop and would have instead been fighting King down below.
- Never once before has Zoro declared that he shall cut down the arc antagonist.
- Aside from Mihawk, Zoro hasn't previously sought out any of his arc opponents
- Never once before has Zoro and Luffy faced the arc antagonist together.
Wano is uncharted territory. Were it a traditional arc, Zoro would not have been on the Rooftop and would have instead been fighting King down below.
I don't expect that to happen. Two ways I can see this happening:
- Luffy and Zoro fight Kaido together a la the Punk Hazard Dragon.
- Zoro gets to land the final attack.
- Luffy faces Kaido in a 1 vs 1 confirmation and overcomes him knocking him out.
- Kaido recovers and Zoro cuts him down then.
I don't think either of this dehypes Luffy.
If Zoro doesn't finish Kaido, none of the above plot points would have a suitable payoff:
- Kaido's desire to die at the hands of the Samurai bearing Oden's mantle.
- Zoro surpassing Oden.
- Zoro becoming the Second Ryuma.
I don't agree that Zoro failing to land the final blow is no big deal.
Luffy has the opportunity of beating Kaido in combat, but Kaido recovers and is finally cut down by Zoro. I don't really see how that dehypes Luffy in the slightest.
Regarding your first point about Luffy repeatedly stating his desire to defeat the Yonkou and Admirals:
- Luffy may never fight Shanks, so he isn't necessarily fulfilling that proclamation.
- It seems unlikely that Luffy will defeat all 3 Admirals and then the Fleet Admiral.
I don't think those statements are as strong because they were directed at a group.
His statements about Kaido in particular are persuasive though.
What if they are given equal regard (like Law and Luffy got for Doffy).
Zoro's character arc in Wano culminated in an earth shattering declaration that he would cut Kaido down:
I feel like you didn't answer my question. I wasn't asking whether you thought that would happen, but if you would consider it Luffy defeating Kaido.
If Luffy beats Hybrid Kaido and knocks him out, but then Kaido rises again and transforms into Dragon form with Zoro cutting him down, would you consider that a Luffy victory?
As I've argued elsewhere in this thread, Wano is not a traditional arc.
I don't expect that to happen. Two ways I can see this happening:
I don't think either of this dehypes Luffy.
If Zoro doesn't finish Kaido, none of the above plot points would have a suitable payoff:
I don't agree that Zoro failing to land the final blow is no big deal.
Luffy has the opportunity of beating Kaido in combat, but Kaido recovers and is finally cut down by Zoro. I don't really see how that dehypes Luffy in the slightest.
Regarding your first point about Luffy repeatedly stating his desire to defeat the Yonkou and Admirals:
I don't think those statements are as strong because they were directed at a group.
His statements about Kaido in particular are persuasive though.
Zoro's character arc in Wano culminated in an earth shattering declaration that he would cut Kaido down:
I feel like you didn't answer my question. I wasn't asking whether you thought that would happen, but if you would consider it Luffy defeating Kaido.
If Luffy beats Hybrid Kaido and knocks him out, but then Kaido rises again and transforms into Dragon form with Zoro cutting him down, would you consider that a Luffy victory?
As I've argued elsewhere in this thread, Wano is not a traditional arc.
I don't expect that to happen. Two ways I can see this happening:
- Luffy and Zoro fight Kaido together a la the Punk Hazard Dragon.
- Zoro gets to land the final attack.
- Luffy faces Kaido in a 1 vs 1 confirmation and overcomes him knocking him out.
- Kaido recovers and Zoro cuts him down then.
I don't think either of this dehypes Luffy.
If Zoro doesn't finish Kaido, none of the above plot points would have a suitable payoff:
- Kaido's desire to die at the hands of the Samurai bearing Oden's mantle.
- Zoro surpassing Oden.
- Zoro becoming the Second Ryuma.
I don't agree that Zoro failing to land the final blow is no big deal.
Luffy has the opportunity of beating Kaido in combat, but Kaido recovers and is finally cut down by Zoro. I don't really see how that dehypes Luffy in the slightest.
Regarding your first point about Luffy repeatedly stating his desire to defeat the Yonkou and Admirals:
- Luffy may never fight Shanks, so he isn't necessarily fulfilling that proclamation.
- It seems unlikely that Luffy will defeat all 3 Admirals and then the Fleet Admiral.
I don't think those statements are as strong because they were directed at a group.
His statements about Kaido in particular are persuasive though.
If Kaido can still fight at full strength no, if he is just too injured, trying to run away and if Luffy can still fight but Zoro goes for it then I would say it's a kind of yes I guess. Win win for Luffy and Zoro.
If you give me the choice, I will always go for a Luffy win in a 1v1 and no recovery from Kaido because he is my favourite character even when he disappoints me. And so far in Wano it has been mostly disappointment for me with the way Oda is handling him.
If you give me the choice, I will always go for a Luffy win in a 1v1 and no recovery from Kaido because he is my favourite character even when he disappoints me. And so far in Wano it has been mostly disappointment for me with the way Oda is handling him.
These points in this thread and the others certainly put legitimate arguments for ZKK/ZDK but i still think Oda would still go Luffy having his 1v1 fight with Kaido .
The scenario presented by @Garp the Fist is also a plausible one which I find to be the most reasonable outcome which neither dehypes Zoro or Luffy.
The scenario presented by @Garp the Fist is also a plausible one which I find to be the most reasonable outcome which neither dehypes Zoro or Luffy.
This is Luffy's story. Not Zoro's. Enough with the silly Headcanoning. It's distasteful.
Zoro fans should stay in their own lane and shut the fuck up.
Whether or not some people want Zoro to kill Kaidou or not doesn't matter.
Zoro fans should stay in their own lane and shut the fuck up.
Whether or not some people want Zoro to kill Kaidou or not doesn't matter.
Pls accept my gift :holdthisl:
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I don't think that these are convincing arguments for Zoro to surpass Oden this arc tbh.
- We don't know if turning Enma black means that he has surpassed Oden overall or in just one aspect.
- The reason Oden couldn't slay Kaido was because of the whole hostage thing and also, Zoro isn't 1v1ing Kaido like him.
- I don't think that anything in the essay strongly implies that Zoro will be surpassing Oden.
I'm not saying he can't. He might do it but I don't think that your arguments are convincing enough.
What I'm most afraid about if ZKK doesn't happen is people criticizing Oda and saying that it's bad writing. Many will be irritated I believe. That would be fun to watch. But it would also be fun to see many people's reaction on Reddit/Youtube/Twitter if ZKK does end up happening. They would totally call it bad writing and that Oda is biased.
It's a win-win situation for me I feel. :cheers:
- We don't know if turning Enma black means that he has surpassed Oden overall or in just one aspect.
- The reason Oden couldn't slay Kaido was because of the whole hostage thing and also, Zoro isn't 1v1ing Kaido like him.
- I don't think that anything in the essay strongly implies that Zoro will be surpassing Oden.
I'm not saying he can't. He might do it but I don't think that your arguments are convincing enough.
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What I'm most afraid about if ZKK doesn't happen is people criticizing Oda and saying that it's bad writing. Many will be irritated I believe. That would be fun to watch. But it would also be fun to see many people's reaction on Reddit/Youtube/Twitter if ZKK does end up happening. They would totally call it bad writing and that Oda is biased.
It's a win-win situation for me I feel. :cheers:
I am not the one crying whenever I see zoro on the rooftop. Just get over it and enjoy the manga. It is not healthy for you to be so mad everytime you see Zoro getting a W. You say that I am triggered when I am here laughing at you lol, keep wanking them Ls while being delusional. Watch out you might get a heart attack if you see Zoro again. I just want you to stay healthy. 
I am not the one crying whenever I see zoro on the rooftop. Just get over it and enjoy the manga. It is not healthy for you to be so mad everytime you see Zoro getting a W. You say that I am triggered when I am here laughing at you lol, keep wanking them Ls while being delusional. Watch out you might get a heart attack if you see Zoro again. I just want you to stay healthy.
You're trying too hard to be a bigshot. Slow your role. It's making you look desperate.
If ZZK happens Sanji tards and zoro haters would burn up the internet. If it doesn't happen some Zoro lievers would get pissed off mostly because they were showed some kind of foreshadow and 'evidence' just to end up nothing. Since I am in the middle, 50% of ZZK and 50% he won't I wouldn't be affected at all lol.
I am not the one crying whenever I see zoro on the rooftop. Just get over it and enjoy the manga. It is not healthy for you to be so mad everytime you see Zoro getting a W. You say that I am triggered when I am here laughing at you lol, keep wanking them Ls while being delusional. Watch out you might get a heart attack if you see Zoro again. I just want you to stay healthy.