Ulti was blindsided and back in action minutes later. Same as Page One after Luffy punched him
Let me guess. Nami is close to Yamato because she did damage to Ulti for some seconds and even stopped Big Mom with Zeus... Same as Franky damaged Big Mom and Jinbe took her on a fly. Brook even was praised by her and Chopper blocked her attack.
I’ve made my case about Yamato’s place in the crew already in other threads but I’ll go ahead and bring it up here as well. I also apologize for the length.
The persuasiveness is going to be carried by two things: A.) how much you personally place on SH parallels to the Roger Pirates & B.) whether you think Toei has gone completely rogue or not.
I’ve always argued that the top members of the Roger Pirates are set up as nigh perfect parallels to the top members of the SHs. It’s why I always firmly believed Zoro would develop CoC. Because Rayleigh had it. It turned out to be accurate. Now, you can say I reached the right conclusion with the wrong formula but it’s fruition all the more looks like Rayleigh = Zoro. I don’t think many will argue that Luffy has been paralleled with Roger either. So Luffy = Roger.
Gaban is the top Roger Pirate we know the least about. But his naming pattern alone points to him being the #3 of his crew before we take Oden into account. Then Roger confirmed himself that Gaban was his second best guy in Oden’s flashback recently. If you will admit Luffy = Roger and Zoro = Rayleigh, I don’t understand why you would reject Sanji = Gaban unless it’s out of an agenda. And we very much seem to think that Yamato is going to be Luffy’s Oden if she’s going to be joining the strawhats. Yamato = Oden as her parallel if she is to be a SH.
Now we get into an anime. Everyone including me fully expected Rayleigh & Oden to be rivals as VC of their individual crews. But something very odd happened in the anime during that flashback. Oden fought Scopper. Why would Toei do that? It makes no sense to me for them to have gone rogue in such a way for no gain. It would have been more hype and more logical to see Rayleigh clash with Oden. And when in doubt Toei leans toward spectacle (even when it makes less sense). So why would they choose to go with a less spectacular route? I think it’s more likely that Toei only deviated from that because of something Oda said. And if you believe that incident had Oda’s approval then I think it’s fair to say Oden is closer to Gaban during that flashback than he is to Rayleigh.
It appears Oda has always loved the concept of the monster trio, he even named Sanji after the number 3. Oden vs Gaban appears, to me at least, to be Oda’s way of protecting the sanctity of Roger’s monster trio. The anime appears to suggest Gaban ~ Oden. If this is Oda’s will then it has been done so in order for Gaban to hold his standing with the addition of Oden. So it is my conclusion that if the anime team hasn’t lost their minds Sanji ~ Yamato is what we can expect going forward.
Yamato may be stronger right now. In fact I’ve argued that she is. But it looks like long term we are getting Luffy > Zoro > Sanji ~ Yamato just as Roger > Rayleigh > Gaban ~ Oden.
So unlike Jimbe & Franky who fell behind Sanji, I think Yamato is going to be every bit his match because of her parallel to Oden. I believe Yamato will finally be the addition to break the M3 into the M4. Just as Oden appears to be the catalyst in creating a M4 for Roger.
But about this part, i think youre overanalyzing a small anime only clash. Oden is definitely stronger than Gabban at the point he joined, and later even more so. I think if Yamato joins, she breaks the pattern, atleast for the near future. Later on we dont know how Oda will write her
Imo if someone wants yamato by franky and jinbe it's to keep the m3 alive. Thing with the m3 is it died when jinbe joined and if yamato joins it's gonna be the fab 5. I don't think oda is gonna have a massive gap between yamato and jinbe then sanji. Rn I think it's luffy > zoro > yamato > sanji > jinbe but sanji will over take yamato eventually. Even then jinbe the weakest 1 isn't gonna be far from sanji. I think the crew structure going forward is for a PK crew that is strongest of all time not just on par with rogers crew. I don't think luffy will accomplish what Roger couldn't if he's only just as good as Roger otherwise roger should have done it himself. The crew should be getting massively stronger and post wano they will be recognized as a yonko level crew.
But about this part, i think youre overanalyzing a small anime only clash. Oden is definitely stronger than Gabban at the point he joined, and later even more so. I think if Yamato joins, she breaks the pattern, atleast for the near future. Later on we dont know how Oda will write her
I’ll be the first to admit I may be putting far too much weight on that Gaban & Oden anime only scene. But it just doesn’t make sense as to why Toei would have done it with no prompting from Oda. If they just did it to do it they missed a golden opportunity to put him with Rayleigh.
For now I disagree that Oden was definitely stronger than Gaban at the time he joined. We simply haven’t seen enough out of Gaban. Hell, the only real fighting from him we’ve seen IS the anime only Oden clash. Oden very well may be stronger than Gaban. Oden could even possibly be stronger than Rayleigh (though I do personally doubt that one as of now).
My main stance on the sanctity of the M3 comes from how strongly Oda has maintained it even when it appeared he was ready to shake it up. He went so far as to pit Jimbe against WW instead of Jack. So far we’ve seen Oda do this dance twice already. But because Yamato has her Oden parallel I don’t expect her to get the same treatment as Jimbe nor Franky. No matter if she turns out to be stronger than Sanji, equal to Sanji, or slightly below I believe we are going to witness the birth of the long awaited M4 if she joins and I welcome it. If she pushes him to 4 then the only harm done will be that Sanji’s name becomes ironic (since it means 3).
For now my working hypothesis that Luffy > Zoro > Sanji ~ Yamato is what I’m going to expect until Oda proves to me he’s willing to move Sanji to 4 for good. Either way it will all become clear eventually.
Imo if someone wants yamato by franky and jinbe it's to keep the m3 alive. Thing with the m3 is it died when jinbe joined and if yamato joins it's gonna be the fab 5. I don't think oda is gonna have a massive gap between yamato and jinbe then sanji. Rn I think it's luffy > zoro > yamato > sanji > jinbe but sanji will over take yamato eventually. Even then jinbe the weakest 1 isn't gonna be far from sanji. I think the crew structure going forward is for a PK crew that is strongest of all time not just on par with rogers crew. I don't think luffy will accomplish what Roger couldn't if he's only just as good as Roger otherwise roger should have done it himself. The crew should be getting massively stronger and post wano they will be recognized as a yonko level crew.
The fact that Oda is apparently pitting Sanji against Kaido’s YC2 and Jimbe against his top veteran/YC4 tells me Oda hasn’t done away with the M3 just yet.
I do think Luffy’s crew will surpass Roger’s. I expect Luffy, Zoro, and Sanji to surpass Roger, Rayleigh, and Gaban and I think Luffy’s crew is going to have better depth than Roger’s. Roger had way more members but I think past the top guys Luffy is getting significantly more quality per member.
I think it's obvious why people comparing Jinbei/Franky with Yamato. even sanji fans can't lie because they know Jinbei/Franky strongest after Captain & Vice-captain in Crew.
thats why yamato getting 3rd strongest place in SHs. new M3 will be dope 3 coc users together
I glad non coc fodders like sanji getting ass kicked from m3
and other new trio will be Monster Chopper, Jinbei, RS sanji
Yamato > Jinbei/Franky > RS sanji >= Monster Chopper
I’ll be the first to admit I may be putting far too much weight on that Gaban & Oden anime only scene. But it just doesn’t make sense as to why Toei would have done it with no prompting from Oda. If they just did it to do it they missed a golden opportunity to put him with Rayleigh.
For now I disagree that Oden was definitely stronger than Gaban at the time he joined. We simply haven’t seen enough out of Gaban. Hell, the only real fighting from him we’ve seen IS the anime only Oden clash. Oden very well may be stronger than Gaban. Oden could even possibly be stronger than Rayleigh (though I do personally doubt that one as of now).
My main stance on the sanctity of the M3 comes from how strongly Oda has maintained it even when it appeared he was ready to shake it up. He went so far as to pit Jimbe against WW instead of Jack. So far we’ve seen Oda do this dance twice already. But because Yamato has her Oden parallel I don’t expect her to get the same treatment as Jimbe nor Franky. No matter if she turns out to be stronger than Sanji, equal to Sanji, or slightly below I believe we are going to witness the birth of the long awaited M4 if she joins and I welcome it. If she pushes him to 4 then the only harm done will be that Sanji’s name becomes ironic (since it means 3).
For now my working hypothesis that Luffy > Zoro > Sanji ~ Yamato is what I’m going to expect until Oda proves to me he’s willing to move Sanji to 4 for good. Either way it will all become clear eventually.
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The fact that Oda is apparently pitting Sanji against Kaido’s YC2 and Jimbe against his top veteran/YC4 tells me Oda hasn’t done away with the M3 just yet.
I do think Luffy’s crew will surpass Roger’s. I expect Luffy, Zoro, and Sanji to surpass Roger, Rayleigh, and Gaban and I think Luffy’s crew is going to have better depth than Roger’s. Roger had way more members but I think past the top guys Luffy is getting significantly more quality per member.
I understand that when you put things in the M3 perspective it makes sense to draw those conclusions. But i just dont like doing that. For me, Oden has been portrayed as a monster from the beginning, and was someone both Roger and Whitebeard held in high regard. Even Kaido to this day cries for him and holds him on the pedestal of those. Gabban only portrayal is that hes the no.3 of Roger, or atleast was until Oden arrived to the scene. Everything in the manga points to Oden being above Gabban, at any point in the story.
Yamato and Sanji could be the same, depends on how Oda will want to do it. But imo, right now Yamato is stronger, and its up to Oda how he will handle it afterwards. Yamato has insane potential due to her bloodline, and Sanji is several years younger so he has time to catch up. Lets see how Oda handles it
I understand that when you put things in the M3 perspective it makes sense to draw those conclusions. But i just dont like doing that. For me, Oden has been portrayed as a monster from the beginning, and was someone both Roger and Whitebeard held in high regard. Even Kaido to this day cries for him and holds him on the pedestal of those. Gabban only portrayal is that hes the no.3 of Roger, or atleast was until Oden arrived to the scene. Everything in the manga points to Oden being above Gabban, at any point in the story.
Yamato and Sanji could be the same, depends on how Oda will want to do it. But imo, right now Yamato is stronger, and its up to Oda how he will handle it afterwards. Yamato has insane potential due to her bloodline, and Sanji is several years younger so he has time to catch up. Lets see how Oda handles it
We’re on the same page just different paragraphs lol. I also place Yamato above Sanji right now until I see more from both. And if that anime scene hadn’t cause me question my reality I’d have also thought that Oden was unquestionably above Gaban. Hell, I still want to think he is. But seeing that scene and Jimbe set against WW so close together makes me question if Oda is just trying to reaffirm the M3 as rock solid before he brings Yamato into the fold. But Oda will do what Oda will do and I’m game for whatever it turns out to be.
We’re on the same page just different paragraphs lol. I also place Yamato above Sanji right now until I see more from both. And if that anime scene hadn’t cause me question my reality I’d have also thought that Oden was unquestionably above Gaban. Hell, I still want to think he is. But seeing that scene and Jimbe set against WW so close together makes me question if Oda is just trying to reaffirm the M3 as rock solid before he brings Yamato into the fold. But Oda will do what Oda will do and I’m game for whatever it turns out to be.
Yeah difference being that anime scene basically heh. I thought the Sanji and Jinbe dynamic was established already, in Fishman Island when they fought together they were comparable. I was kinda guessing Sanji would be above him by now since few arcs have passed and he got the raid suit. But i dont think the gap is huge tbh, i expect Jinbe to finish off WW comfortably while Sanji to have a extreme diff battle, maybe get some help even or a power up. Yamato is not easy to read, unless she fights someone for comparison. Shes up against Kaido right now so we cant possibly know her true level. But i think, if nothing else, there will be endless debates like now with Zoro and Sanji
I actually expect Sanji to handle Queen easier than extreme diff. Oda’s never given him an extreme diff fight before so while I’m expecting this to be his hardest yet, I’m not expecting it to render him immobile or anything. I imagine he’ll be pretty fine afterwards but we’ll see what Oda does.
I’m not expecting WW to be an especially hard fight for Jimbe either. It should be easier than Sanji v Queen I’d think, but overall I’m still expecting this arc to put Sanji comfortably above Jimbe. Not as extreme as Sanji moved ahead of Franky at Enies Loby but an equivalent that still respects Jimbe.
I have no issue comparing Yamato to Jinbei, he might very likely be stronger, but Franky? I doubt it. At least as of now. To me Yamato is Snack of the SHs while Jinbei, Sanji and Zoro are the commanders. Unless later Yamato grew much stronger and Jinbei fall behind and he becomes the Snack of the crew.
I have no issue comparing Yamato to Jinbei, he might very likely be stronger, but Franky? I doubt it. At least as of now. To me Yamato is Snack of the SHs while Jinbei, Sanji and Zoro are the commanders. Unless later Yamato grew much stronger and Jinbei fall behind and he becomes the Snack of the crew.
Yamato is impressive, but most of what she did was taking down fodders. Yes she did knock out Ulti for a short period, but so did Apoo to Luffy that’s what happens in a point blank powerful attack. Yes she handled well (G2+G3) Luffy well yet she knows Luffy wasn’t putting much effort when fighting her and that’s a fact.
Yamato’s display of what looks like ACoC the last time we saw her makes this debate more interesting.
If Yamato joins the crew, and if Yamato is capable of using ACoC (which very much looks like the case) then Oda will have to work overtime to maintain Sanji’s place in the hierarchy. I can’t imagine Oda giving ACoC away to someone who is intended to fall far behind Sanji.
This is a good case for her being an Oden parallel. And a good case that at worse she’s likely creating a M4 even if Oda does maintain Sanji’s spot.
Yamato’s display of what looks like ACoC the last time we saw her makes this debate more interesting.
If Yamato joins the crew, and if Yamato is capable of using ACoC then Oda will have to work overtime to maintain Sanji’s place. I can’t imagine him giving ACoC to someone who isn’t seriously legit.
It’s the same effect Oda has used for Luffy & Kaido’s ACoC clash and BM & Kaido’s clash that we can expect was ACoC.
I know we’ve seen the black lighting with what seems to be armament. But this particular Onigashima shot with the lightning seems to be reserved for Kaido’s conquerors clashes.
We also see Kaido’s club with the haki tendrils that appear to be used to indicate ACoC usage for him.
It’s the same effect Oda has used for Luffy & Kaido’s ACoC clash and BM & Kaido’s clash that we can expect was ACoC.
I know we’ve seen the black lighting with what seems to be armament. But this particular Onigashima shot with the lightning seems to be reserved for Kaido’s conquerors clashes.
We also see Kaido’s club with the haki tendrils that appear to be used to indicate ACoC usage for him.
I already said black lightning doesn’t appear to =/= CoC. But that particular Onigashima shot has likely been ACoC 2 out of 3 times. It is certainly a potential pattern to watch.
I’ve been careful to say “maybe”, “likely”, and “seems” because it isn’t confirmed to definitely be ACoC yet. But based on the pattern it’s definitely something to hypothesize on.
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