Have him use his head a bit more, instead of making brilliant tactical decisions like turning around to fight Big Meme, or charging right at Kaido. And as @Den_Den_Mushi mentioned earlier, Luffy could use something to make his character more interesting, we’ve had far too much of Luffy wanting to free the island people he just met, getting stronger to protect his crew, or “iM GuNNa Be dA PiRATe KinG!” As for the last two suggestions, I don’t think they’re character related per say, but they are the other two biggest issues I have with him. I hate how strong Luffy got so fast, especially when you look at the Supernovas who were supposed to be his rivals (note: though I’m not saying I expected every last one of them to be an extreme diff either way fight for him). And ffs, stop having him hog so much screentime and fights. I often wonder why Oda keeps the other SHs around because they’re literally living scenery compared to Luffy.
General & Others How would you make Luffy a better character?
- Thread starter Light D Lamperouge
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The only thing i dislike is the constant repetition and at times seemingly superficial announcement of his motivations, mostly post-TS.
Luffy has always been someone who only acts on behalf of people with whom he has a personal connection to, even if he has opinions about people being good or bad even without that, but what moves him is someone he cares about being at stake or having been hurt one way or the other. He cared about Enel, basically the anti-thesis to Luffy in a sense, playing a shitty god and hurting Skypeia, but what drew him into action was seeing Zoro, Robin and Nami.
He did not take Alabasta´s fate lightly, but Vivi was the main reason for him to target Croc. And the list goes on. The only exception might be Krieg, but it was an opportunity for him to clear his debt, so that´s that.
Pre-TS these personal connections were done better, and to be fair were easier to be done better, since the ones at stake were mostly people who eventually became crewmembers, already were so, or are rather special and honorary crewmembers (Vivi), so the connections between Luffy and the other characters in question seemed rather credible.
Post-TS, the reason for Luffy´s action stayed the same, but the relationships that drew him into it and made him furious are done poorly, whether it´s Brownbeard or Rebecca. You could argue that Law played into it as well with Doflamingo, so there´s a redeeming factor (Luffy owed him plus saw him as a good guy) but overall, it seems more empty compared to pre-TS, in which Vivi was close to complete desperation, Robin´s entire existence was questioned, Usopp´s, his newly found friend´s, village was at stake and so forth, and Luffy caring about each of these cases could be understood by the audience.
Even Chouchou was done significantly more satisfying than Rebecca or Brownbeard.
So when Luffy actually articulates what makes him mad or why he is doing what he is doing, it seems equally empty and as a consequence even annoying.
As a second result, the audience might even get the impression that Luffy suddenly wants to be the hero and acts like the hero to beat the big bad guy, which is a contrast to pre-TS, but it´s simply that the execution is not as good as pre-TS, that´s all, since Luffy has always divided people into good and bad and had an opinion about things, he simply did not act based on them (which is why i am interested to see how Oda is going to handle Luffy finally moving against the World Government, might be Sabo, or Vivi, or the entire planet with the people he cares about being at stake).
Regarding the Katakuri thing, i do not disagree that it seemed at least unfortunate how Luffy decided to confront Katakuri a second time, but it makes sense considering how quickly they moved against the Yonkou and how quickly Luffy needed to improve.
That´s literally what Rayleigh taught him, he needs to challenge stronger guys and get stronger in the process.
Luffy has always been someone who only acts on behalf of people with whom he has a personal connection to, even if he has opinions about people being good or bad even without that, but what moves him is someone he cares about being at stake or having been hurt one way or the other. He cared about Enel, basically the anti-thesis to Luffy in a sense, playing a shitty god and hurting Skypeia, but what drew him into action was seeing Zoro, Robin and Nami.
He did not take Alabasta´s fate lightly, but Vivi was the main reason for him to target Croc. And the list goes on. The only exception might be Krieg, but it was an opportunity for him to clear his debt, so that´s that.
Pre-TS these personal connections were done better, and to be fair were easier to be done better, since the ones at stake were mostly people who eventually became crewmembers, already were so, or are rather special and honorary crewmembers (Vivi), so the connections between Luffy and the other characters in question seemed rather credible.
Post-TS, the reason for Luffy´s action stayed the same, but the relationships that drew him into it and made him furious are done poorly, whether it´s Brownbeard or Rebecca. You could argue that Law played into it as well with Doflamingo, so there´s a redeeming factor (Luffy owed him plus saw him as a good guy) but overall, it seems more empty compared to pre-TS, in which Vivi was close to complete desperation, Robin´s entire existence was questioned, Usopp´s, his newly found friend´s, village was at stake and so forth, and Luffy caring about each of these cases could be understood by the audience.
Even Chouchou was done significantly more satisfying than Rebecca or Brownbeard.
So when Luffy actually articulates what makes him mad or why he is doing what he is doing, it seems equally empty and as a consequence even annoying.
As a second result, the audience might even get the impression that Luffy suddenly wants to be the hero and acts like the hero to beat the big bad guy, which is a contrast to pre-TS, but it´s simply that the execution is not as good as pre-TS, that´s all, since Luffy has always divided people into good and bad and had an opinion about things, he simply did not act based on them (which is why i am interested to see how Oda is going to handle Luffy finally moving against the World Government, might be Sabo, or Vivi, or the entire planet with the people he cares about being at stake).
Regarding the Katakuri thing, i do not disagree that it seemed at least unfortunate how Luffy decided to confront Katakuri a second time, but it makes sense considering how quickly they moved against the Yonkou and how quickly Luffy needed to improve.
That´s literally what Rayleigh taught him, he needs to challenge stronger guys and get stronger in the process.
Luffy is a flat character. Most Shonen MCs are. They are not meant to be change by the world, but to change the world around them for the better. Most of the time, the MC already embodies the truth and message of the series, and is showing everyone else they are wrong.
By design, it is impossible for the flat MC to be 3 dimensional, especially for a long running series; they are 2 dimensional characters at best with their developlemt being more subtle.
Luffy for example, lost his shit against Foxy for cheating but against Katakuri, said there is no such thing as cheating in a pirate battle.
By design, it is impossible for the flat MC to be 3 dimensional, especially for a long running series; they are 2 dimensional characters at best with their developlemt being more subtle.
Luffy for example, lost his shit against Foxy for cheating but against Katakuri, said there is no such thing as cheating in a pirate battle.
Too much of a generalization in your first paragraph.
Most protagonists in such stories actually are meant to change, even in shonen.
The point behind luffy, whether one might like it or not, is actually not to change, because he is supposed to personify, in a simplistic and overdrawn way, everything that Oda deems good and praiseworthy. Thats a stark contrast to the majority of similar story settings.
Luffy lost his shit becausr it was a competition with clear established rules that only one side had to follow, it was not a "pirates fight".
Most protagonists in such stories actually are meant to change, even in shonen.
The point behind luffy, whether one might like it or not, is actually not to change, because he is supposed to personify, in a simplistic and overdrawn way, everything that Oda deems good and praiseworthy. Thats a stark contrast to the majority of similar story settings.
Luffy lost his shit becausr it was a competition with clear established rules that only one side had to follow, it was not a "pirates fight".
Recklessness is part of Luffy's character. If he suddenly became a planner like Law, it would kill his character. Against Kaido, i loved that moment despite Luffy ending up recked. He was always thinking about the safety of his comrades
With Tama who he previously promised to save, save the kingdom from, for her to always have an enjoyable birthday getting hurt by Kaido
Making him think of himself as a loser. And due to being too emotionally invested, he wanted to end things once and for all
So sure he was reckless in his decision, but he did what he thought was right in order to save or avenge his comrades we didn't even know at that point was still alive. It reminded me a bit of his emotional burst when Kuma was sending his nakama away from him. He's always been like that and it's one of the reasons Luffy is so enjoyable to watch
With Tama who he previously promised to save, save the kingdom from, for her to always have an enjoyable birthday getting hurt by Kaido
Making him think of himself as a loser. And due to being too emotionally invested, he wanted to end things once and for all
So sure he was reckless in his decision, but he did what he thought was right in order to save or avenge his comrades we didn't even know at that point was still alive. It reminded me a bit of his emotional burst when Kuma was sending his nakama away from him. He's always been like that and it's one of the reasons Luffy is so enjoyable to watch
I find one of the biggest problems with Luffy’s character in general, is that his motivation is not truly fleshed out and at times seems rather hollow.
His goal is to be Pirate King because of two supposed reasons;
I) The promise between him and Shanks.
II) Luffy perceives the Pirate King as the individual with the most freedom.
Ultimately, the first thing that would need to be fixed before anything else is a proper, established character motivation and an explanation as to why Luffy desired to be a pirate from a young age and why he desires to be the Pirate King specifically.
His goal is to be Pirate King because of two supposed reasons;
I) The promise between him and Shanks.
II) Luffy perceives the Pirate King as the individual with the most freedom.
The problem with reason number one is that Luffy made the declaration of becoming the Pirate King before he made the promise to Shanks.
Before this, Luffy only stated that he had intentions of becoming a pirate in general, a pirate under Shanks at that.
This means that Luffy basically declared his intention to be Pirate King because Shanks refused to allow him on his crew and triggered him.
As for Shanks, he only states that Luffy should return the hat to him when he is “a great pirate”.
In short, Luffy’s motivation regarding his desire to be Pirate King is actually quite shallow. The promise between him and Shanks also fails to establish why Luffy desired to be a pirate in the first place.
As for Shanks, he only states that Luffy should return the hat to him when he is “a great pirate”.
The greatest problem with this supposed reason is very simple.
At no point has Luffy ever established his opinion on what exactly he perceives “freedom” to be.
If one were to generalize the concept of “freedom” then you would find two basic types.
I) Freedom from. This is the desire to leave behind that which one deems obstructive to one’s happiness/quality of life in some way.
II) Freedom to. This is the desire to do what one seeks to achieve in life which in turn will contribute to one’s happiness/quality of life.
These may seem similar but they are different.
For example, through being a pirate, Luffy is no longer bound by any law of any nation thus he has freedom to do anything he pleases.
However, in becoming a pirate, Luffy is now unwelcome in most civilized territories and is consistently hounded by the Navy and bounty hunters. As captain he is also responsible for the burden of protecting his crew and giving the final order on what course of action to take. Benn Beckman pointed this out to Luffy (albeit somewhat jokingly since Luffy was a child at the time).
In short, Luffy has denied himself freedom from both increased responsibility and the entire judicial/law enforcement system.
The problem with all this is that all Luffy sought to do is have nakama and adventure which he could have done without being a pirate.
So why did Luffy desire to become a pirate?
When he lived with the mountain bandits he was completely free from any and all typical societal responsibilities. The World Government did not even know of his existence. So what was there for him to seek freedom from?
All Luffy has ever stated to desire (beside the tenuous goal of becoming the Pirate King) is a loyal crew and adventure. The thing is, there is no law or societal responsibility preventing Luffy from doing this legally.
For example, Montblanc Noland was a famous adventurer, funded by governments to find new land with the assistance of a loyal crew. In fact, even becoming a Marine would have allowed for both adventure and a loyal crew. So what freedom to was Luffy seeking?
Again, why did he desire to become a pirate?
Also, why does he perceive the Pirate King to be the “man with the most freedom” when seeking such a title means upholding a duty to crush any challengers to the title (of which there are many) as well as being the most wanted man in the world thus being hunted down with extreme prejudice by all law enforcement organizations?
At no point has Luffy ever established his opinion on what exactly he perceives “freedom” to be.
If one were to generalize the concept of “freedom” then you would find two basic types.
I) Freedom from. This is the desire to leave behind that which one deems obstructive to one’s happiness/quality of life in some way.
II) Freedom to. This is the desire to do what one seeks to achieve in life which in turn will contribute to one’s happiness/quality of life.
These may seem similar but they are different.
For example, through being a pirate, Luffy is no longer bound by any law of any nation thus he has freedom to do anything he pleases.
However, in becoming a pirate, Luffy is now unwelcome in most civilized territories and is consistently hounded by the Navy and bounty hunters. As captain he is also responsible for the burden of protecting his crew and giving the final order on what course of action to take. Benn Beckman pointed this out to Luffy (albeit somewhat jokingly since Luffy was a child at the time).
The problem with all this is that all Luffy sought to do is have nakama and adventure which he could have done without being a pirate.
So why did Luffy desire to become a pirate?
When he lived with the mountain bandits he was completely free from any and all typical societal responsibilities. The World Government did not even know of his existence. So what was there for him to seek freedom from?
All Luffy has ever stated to desire (beside the tenuous goal of becoming the Pirate King) is a loyal crew and adventure. The thing is, there is no law or societal responsibility preventing Luffy from doing this legally.
For example, Montblanc Noland was a famous adventurer, funded by governments to find new land with the assistance of a loyal crew. In fact, even becoming a Marine would have allowed for both adventure and a loyal crew. So what freedom to was Luffy seeking?
Again, why did he desire to become a pirate?
Also, why does he perceive the Pirate King to be the “man with the most freedom” when seeking such a title means upholding a duty to crush any challengers to the title (of which there are many) as well as being the most wanted man in the world thus being hunted down with extreme prejudice by all law enforcement organizations?
Ultimately, the first thing that would need to be fixed before anything else is a proper, established character motivation and an explanation as to why Luffy desired to be a pirate from a young age and why he desires to be the Pirate King specifically.
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Rewriting Luffy is a whole ordeal, but a quick fix for his character would be to have Luffy and the Straw Hats interact more on panel. And I mean beyond basic gags we've seen a hundred times before, have Luffy fight alongside them, or help them (or be helped by them) more often. Not only will it allow the SH's to develop, but their relationships with Luffy have better odds to mature and we could get new gags from it.
I think that's the biggest issue people have with One Piece past Marineford. There's too little emphasis on the SHs and it feels like their influence on Luffy and the series has diminished greatly. They're replaced by arc-only characters and have to share their screen time with the likes of Baron Tamago, Pekoms, Pound, Brulee, Capone and others who really don't matter.
I think that's the biggest issue people have with One Piece past Marineford. There's too little emphasis on the SHs and it feels like their influence on Luffy and the series has diminished greatly. They're replaced by arc-only characters and have to share their screen time with the likes of Baron Tamago, Pekoms, Pound, Brulee, Capone and others who really don't matter.
Just make him less of a super special snowflake
To clarify, he doesn't need every single power or legacy connection. It would be cool if he didn't hear VOAT and someone else on the straw hats does or no one does. Robin having it would be cool.
Him learning future sight and advanced armament before the characters on his team who specialize in it learn it is stupid imo. Giving him awakening would have been appropriate because by WCI he faced two people with awakening in doffy and Katakuri.
Have him unlock advanced CoC like his specialty implies he should.
I have no problem him learning all advanced forms of haki but have the other M3 get it first then help teach it to him or have him unlock it after sometime in the future when others have already unlocked theirs.
I hate legacy destiny shit to be honest. Idgaf about Roger. I like his contemporaries better than him anyway
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To clarify, he doesn't need every single power or legacy connection. It would be cool if he didn't hear VOAT and someone else on the straw hats does or no one does. Robin having it would be cool.
Him learning future sight and advanced armament before the characters on his team who specialize in it learn it is stupid imo. Giving him awakening would have been appropriate because by WCI he faced two people with awakening in doffy and Katakuri.
Have him unlock advanced CoC like his specialty implies he should.
I have no problem him learning all advanced forms of haki but have the other M3 get it first then help teach it to him or have him unlock it after sometime in the future when others have already unlocked theirs.
I hate legacy destiny shit to be honest. Idgaf about Roger. I like his contemporaries better than him anyway
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You can easily counter that by the fact that it would be rather weird if Luffy does not have better Haki than most, including any other Strawhat, considering his entire, direct tutalage by one of the strongest combatants in the world, was about that.
How is Sanji directly going to learn FS if neither wqs specifically prepared for it, and nor probably does not even know about it.
Why should Zoro learn about ACoA when the application of CoA for swordsmen seems to be different. Both make no sense.
How is Sanji directly going to learn FS if neither wqs specifically prepared for it, and nor probably does not even know about it.
Why should Zoro learn about ACoA when the application of CoA for swordsmen seems to be different. Both make no sense.
Nailed it.
Among other things, the biggest flaw in post skip Luffy has been that the motives behind his fights lack real weight in regards to his character alignment. A lot of his actions seem slapped on and forced for the sake of theatrics vs the organic feeling it came with pre timeskip.
Luffy was a man of few words, he didn't care for your sob stories, he would observe the current actions of those around him and act based on this. Now all he seems to do is yell and lash out when it doesn't even seem warranted, leading to him becoming annoying and seeming more "hero" like. That's not how the character started out, or was originally intended to be imo.
Among other things, the biggest flaw in post skip Luffy has been that the motives behind his fights lack real weight in regards to his character alignment. A lot of his actions seem slapped on and forced for the sake of theatrics vs the organic feeling it came with pre timeskip.
Luffy was a man of few words, he didn't care for your sob stories, he would observe the current actions of those around him and act based on this. Now all he seems to do is yell and lash out when it doesn't even seem warranted, leading to him becoming annoying and seeming more "hero" like. That's not how the character started out, or was originally intended to be imo.
Easy, change his name into "Luffy"
But overall, I think Luffy is great how he is. How would he be better? honestly? I think he just needs to have a change in design into more older. That's all. I think people are still looking down on him because he just looks like a kid.
Weirdly enough, some of Luffy's haters love Oden, while Oden basically is the spitting image of Luffy character-wise, where Oden as you can go check the flashback, he listerally even gets into the same kind of stupid traps/ambushes as Luffy.
So I think Luffy as a character, we need him to stay silly for comedy golds, we need him to stay reckless, cause a story with main character being someone like Traflagar Law will be BOOOORING, cause we need recklessness to get into trouble and get thrill from this manga. Besides, that recklessness gets him to develop. We does not need to change in his will, because his will is unwavering, even kaido stated it after Luffy was out unconscious. We need him to stay caring for his nakama.
I mean I do not think Luffy needs a change in anyway from his character. Maybe I will only change his design post-timeskip and would have made him a bit more more older looking like Ace or Sabo as an example
If I had to change another thing, it would be in Anime, not manga. It would be stopping Toei from making Luffy scream "Waaaaaaaaa" wen Luffy is running. It's annoying LOL. He doesn't even do it in manga hahaha
But overall, I think Luffy is great how he is. How would he be better? honestly? I think he just needs to have a change in design into more older. That's all. I think people are still looking down on him because he just looks like a kid.
Weirdly enough, some of Luffy's haters love Oden, while Oden basically is the spitting image of Luffy character-wise, where Oden as you can go check the flashback, he listerally even gets into the same kind of stupid traps/ambushes as Luffy.
So I think Luffy as a character, we need him to stay silly for comedy golds, we need him to stay reckless, cause a story with main character being someone like Traflagar Law will be BOOOORING, cause we need recklessness to get into trouble and get thrill from this manga. Besides, that recklessness gets him to develop. We does not need to change in his will, because his will is unwavering, even kaido stated it after Luffy was out unconscious. We need him to stay caring for his nakama.
I mean I do not think Luffy needs a change in anyway from his character. Maybe I will only change his design post-timeskip and would have made him a bit more more older looking like Ace or Sabo as an example
If I had to change another thing, it would be in Anime, not manga. It would be stopping Toei from making Luffy scream "Waaaaaaaaa" wen Luffy is running. It's annoying LOL. He doesn't even do it in manga hahaha
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