General & Others Next Strawhat Crew Members and the Grand Fleet

[Logiko]

What panel?
Yamato has the context of asking to sail with Luffy, Carrot doesn't.

What context, there is no context. Yamato just affirmed that Luffy should take her out of nowhere.

Yes, it’s “bonkers” to think that Luffy, of all people, would not allow the friend of his beloved murdered brother to escape from their own life of misery and imprisonment by having an adventure on his ship.

That sounds exactly like the sort of thing Luffy would do

Luffy does not care about that.. Plus Yamato won't be imprisonned once Luffy liberates Wano..
So yes, thinking that Luffy would just "take her" and saying this without his approuval thinking that it will happen IS bonkers.

 

[Raughtale]

People rooting for a background character for hundreds of chapters trying to talk about logic and storytelling

 

[Logiko]

People rooting for a background character for hundreds of chapters trying to talk about logic and storytelling

Or maybe it's not that much of a background character hmm....

 

[Garp the Fist]

The point is that her delusion that she will specifically be travelling with Luffy is based on a faulty premise. And that premise is one which will almost certainly be resolved by the end of the arc, which will accordingly fix her delusion. She thinks she will travel with Luffy because of "logic" that is heavily flawed.

It's extremely probable she'll change her mind and whilst still wanting to adventure, won't do so with Luffy.

There’s absolutely nothing to suggest that Yamato, after saying she’s going to go to sea with Luffy twice now, will suddenly change her mind when the opportunity arises and the moment she has been waiting for all her life is there to be grasped.

The argument is garbage, so what if she stops calling herself Oden at the end of the arc?
-he’ll still be the main inspirational figure in her life
-she’ll still want to go to sea
-Luffy will still be the man who made this possible for her and who she’s been betting on since she met Ace
-the relationship she had with Ace will still exist

Luffy does not care about that

Yes, Luffy is notoriously blasé about people being put in chains and not allowed to do what they want. Especially friends of his brother.

Plus Yamato won't be imprisonned once Luffy liberates Wano..

Great, and now that she isn’t imprisoned she can… sail away with Luffy. Like she said she would.

People rooting for a background character for hundreds of chapters trying to talk about logic and storytelling

Look, you just have to be a high IQ reader to know that Yamato being one of the main characters of the last fifty odd chapters and repeatedly saying that she wants to leave with Luffy is meaningless, because it’s all a red herring to surprise us when the relentlessly irrelevant Carrot joins the crew.

 

[dizzy2341]

There’s absolutely nothing to suggest that Yamato, after saying she’s going to go to sea with Luffy twice now, will suddenly change her mind when the opportunity arises and the moment she has been waiting for all her life is there to be grasped.

The argument is garbage, so what if she stops calling herself Oden at the end of the arc?

Because the reason she thinks she's going to sea with Luffy is literally based on the delusion that she's actually Oden... What are you not getting?

"If I'm Oden then I'll go out to sea with Luffy"

-"I am not Oden"
-"Therefore I will not go out to sea with Luffy"

This is nursery material. God knows how this confuses you so, lmao.

-he’ll still be the main inspirational figure in her life
-she’ll still want to go to sea
-Luffy will still be the man who made this possible for her and who she’s been betting on since she met Ace
-the relationship she had with Ace will still exist

-Wano will still be in danger from the WG. Even more so than under Kaido
-She'll still want to protect Momo with her life like she swore she would do
-Momo will look identical to Oden, the man whom she admired but never got to interact with whilst alive
-The relationship and countless panels of her protecting Momo and Shinobu will still exist, as opposed to the non-existent ones with the crew

 

[Ravagerblade]

What context, there is no context. Yamato just affirmed that Luffy should take her out of nowhere.



Luffy does not care about that.. Plus Yamato won't be imprisonned once Luffy liberates Wano..
So yes, thinking that Luffy would just "take her" and saying this without his approuval thinking that it will happen IS bonkers.

strawmanning.
Oda has written Yamato as he has for a reason, Why would he make mentions of her riding out to sea with Luffy only for that not to happen. It would be convoluted, and for some damn reason you can't grasp that. FFS it's not hard, let go of your biased agenda.

 

[Logiko]

There’s absolutely nothing to suggest that Yamato, after saying she’s going to go to sea with Luffy twice now, will suddenly change her mind when the opportunity arises and the moment she has been waiting for all her life is there to be grasped.

The argument is garbage, so what if she stops calling herself Oden at the end of the arc?
-he’ll still be the main inspirational figure in her life
-she’ll still want to go to sea
-Luffy will still be the man who made this possible for her and who she’s been betting on since she met Ace
-the relationship she had with Ace will still exist


Yes, Luffy is notoriously blasé about people being put in chains and not allowed to do what they want. Especially friends of his brother.


Great, and now that she isn’t imprisoned she can… sail away with Luffy. Like she said she would.


Look, you just have to be a high IQ reader to know that Yamato being one of the main characters of the last fifty odd chapters and repeatedly saying that she wants to leave with Luffy is meaningless, because it’s all a red herring to surprise us when the relentlessly irrelevant Carrot joins the crew.

I don't think you understand that it is not about Yamato changing her mind or not. She WILL change her mind. But the core principle of our argument is that it is NOT Yamato's decision to make! Do you understand that ?

Remember this, she did not asked, she AFFIRMED that Luffy should take her on his crew.. and what did LUffy do after that ?

- Getting angry
- Calling her YamaO

Right now, everything in the narration points to Yamato changing her mind, only Yamato fan seems to not see that.

strawmanning.
Oda has written Yamato as he has for a reason, Why would he make mentions of her riding out to sea with Luffy only for that not to happen. It would be convoluted, and for some damn reason you can't grasp that. FFS it's not hard, let go of your biased agenda.

We call that a red hearing and in that case specifically, it is a subversion dialogue.

In other word. By mentionning the departure of a character with Luffy, Oda is reactivating the expectation of seeing a future Nakama join the crew. But he is missleading us (you rather) to think that the most obvious option is Yamato... like the most obvious option was Vivi at the time..

Only to give you a Robin. Because he likes to subvert your expectations.

 

[Flagandhat]

Not to mention also showing a non-canon Nami & Carrot combined attack in anime is just plain stupid as well.

I agree with you. Anyone here read about a colour theory pattern?. Yamato looks perfectly in darker orange stage.

Learn to read my friend. I didn't just say "because". Go over my post once more and try again.

I also answered the question and he said that I didn´t answer anything. We can,t do anything more

What panel?
Yamato has the context of asking to sail with Luffy, Carrot doesn't.

Yamato has a sad story ? Yes. Carrot has a sad story ? Nope. Sorry but right now this is the situation. Plus Pedro maybe is alive.

Carrot is an irrelevant character overall

Her role in the manga was to show sulong before the war. (Her ability is also not unique). I also think yamato will go with luffy without Oden personality

 

[Logiko]

I also answered the question and he said that I didn´t answer anything. We can,t do anything more

You didn't answer the question you avoided it.

Yamato has a sad story ? Yes. Carrot has a sad story ? Nope.

Carrot lost her mentor, if you think that's not sad or that Oda did not make you think that it was sad.. you have problem dear.

Her role in the manga was to show sulong before the war. (Her ability is also not unique). I also think yamato will go with luffy without Oden personality

The uniqueness of a character has to be compared with the strawhats not the entire world, because no character in the strawhat is that unique if we play it that way. Change the disk.

 

[dizzy2341]

Oda's done his job well. Gives you same ol' princess in a tower, damsel in distress tropes, repackaged slightly differently and everyone loses their goddamn minds. Get ready to do this all again in Elbaf with Freya, the big titty giant princess that dreams of climbing down her beanstalk one day.

The thing that sets Carrot apart from all these princess types (other than the fact she isn't one) is that Oda actually committed to her journey. She's already out there seeing the world and her adventure with the crew begun a long time ago. And it's as Oden said:

Out of all the companions to briefly travel with the straw hats, Carrot's the only one to do so specifically for the adventure itself, instead of some other obligation they needed to handle. There's no reason for Carrot to want to end her adventure when she knows the straw hats will continue on seeing bigger and better things.

Yamao's journey on the other hand has yet to begin so it's very easy to just plop her on another ship and be rid of stupidity once and for all.

 

[Rushwheel]

Exactly lmao. People mistakingly believe that the only thing you need to join the crew is for Luffy to want you. And whilst that's true on paper since Luffy's the captain, the reality is that the straw hats are a group of extremely close friends. A family. There's a reason Oda takes care to have not only Luffy, but the rest of the crew be friends with the future nakama too. They need to feel like and get on with the rest of the family once they join. Not just with Luffy.

Even with Robin who was purposefully supposed to be distant and a mystery to the crew, Oda still had her meet everyone in her intro so they at least knew who she was. You can go through each member and see how they were already familiar and interacted with the crew well before joining:

Spoiler

Spoiler: Nami

Spoiler: Usopp

Spoiler: Sanji

Spoiler: Chopper

Spoiler: Robin

Spoiler: Franky

Spoiler: Brook

Spoiler: Jinbe

And these are just the casual interactions. All of them also have more personal and meaningful interactions with some members too. But that's just how Oda does things. They'll feel like a crew member before they even join. Slotting in right alongside them and their dynamics. Having an ongoing relationship with the crew right up until the end of the arc where they make it official.

A little something like what we're seeing with a certain bunny character...

Spoiler

Yamao being a complete and utter stranger to the straw hats a whopping 50 chapters after her intro is extremely strange. But when you consider that all the interactions she should've been having with the crew are instead happening with Momo and Shinobu, everything starts to make sense regarding her character's future.

To be fair I'm not convinced that Carrot will join as well. She has a nice dynamic with the straw hats but lacks a backstory (it's not like yamto has a big one but there is something at least). But overall I agree with you yeah.

Spoiler

Also I'm surprised to see this thread is basically turned into Carrot vs. Yamato war zone. I personally think none of them will join and Oda is being a sneaky bastard lol.

 

[Uncle Van]

As things stand now, the end of Wano is on the horizon and the last fights save Luffy vs Kaido are about to wrap up. And in the last stretch Yamato continues to be with Momo, as was the case for most of her panel time so far and Carrot just needs one meaningful interaction with Luffy that would facilitate her joining the crew. That’s gonna take far less time than Yamato just being introduced to the rest of the crew at the finish line. Do the math, one is obviously more feasible than the other. Does it happen? I got no clue what Oda’s gonna do, Carrot’s been MIA for most of the arc but its no guarantee that she’s outta of the picture until the clock is up because the difference in fit with the crew dynamics is night and day.

Both Yamato and Carrot are trash candidates but the thing is that Yamato has alot more going for her compared to the other one who:

-was seemingly happy her whole life

-has yet to be a main character who has ties to the main villain, which incorporates thematic story telling and Luffy saving the day for them

-was a side character for over 200 chapters and got off screened, completely separated from the main conflict while the SHs have already gotten their big thematic battles.

The main argument would have to be that Oda is going something completely different for Carrot and Carrot alone.

 

[dizzy2341]

To be fair I'm not convinced that Carrot will join as well. She has a nice dynamic with the straw hats but lacks a backstory (it's not like yamto has a big one as well but there is something at least). But overall I agree with you yeah.

Oh for sure. I can very easily see why anyone would think Carrot's not joining the crew. But I've got to laugh if those same people think that Yamao definitely is, although I also understand why they think that.

She has a nice dynamic with the straw hats but lacks a backstory (it's not like yamto has a big one as well but there is something at least). But overall I agree with you yeah.

The backstory is a negligible issue IMO. It's merely something used to contextualise a character and add emphasis in certain places, so it can come whenever it'd be most effective in the story and would be easy for Oda to come up with.

The real big boy is the role on the crew, since that's something that drives basically everything else about the character, including their backstory (either literally, or symbolically).

Carrot not having a backstory yet is no real issue since Oda can give her an appropriate one if and when the time calls for it. But having now seen Yamao's backstory and with it bearing no relation to any possible role on the crew, but instead emphasising her love of Wano, desire to become a samurai and search for belonging, it only adds further proof that she's likely gonna remain connected to the Wano bunch after this arc is done.

Also I'm surprised to see this thread is basically turned into Carrot vs. Yamato war zone. I personally think none of them will join and Oda is being a sneaky bastard lol.

I think it's highly likely Carrot's joining, but could see a way in which she doesn't. Yamao on the other hand was never a strong candidate to begin with for various reasons, and at this point her chances are essentially zero. There's no doubt in my mind that she's not joining.

 

[Rushwheel]

Yes, because anything a character says will happen always ends up happening.

About that xd. I was rereading Dressrosa recently:

Spoiler: a panel

That line strongly reminds me of some other recent claims. It never turned the way in was stated tho. At all.

 

[Rootbeer]

So Yamato eating her devil fruit because she was hungry and it being the symbolic image of Wano's guardian diety is her new shackles apparently.. She just can't set herself free for some reason which is what Luffy strive for by becoming the Pirate King..

 

[Logiko]

So Yamato eating her devil fruit because she was hungry and it being the symbolic image of Wano's guardian diety is her new shackles apparently.. She just can't set herself free for some reason which is what Luffy strive for by becoming the Pirate King..

No, she will just choose her new path. Not because of Kaido, not because of Oden, just because of her. A choice of protection of this country.. why would it be so bad ?

Post automatically merged: Nov 10, 2021

About that xd. I was rereading Dressrosa recently:

Spoiler: a panel

That line strongly reminds me of some other recent claims. It never turned the way in was stated tho. At all.

I agree, Oda always play with the diversion. When he makes a character states his futur, you can be sure that it won't happen the way they think

 

[Rootbeer]

No, she will just choose her new path. Not because of Kaido, not because of Oden, just because of her. A choice of protection of this country.. why would it be so bad ?

Oh she will choose to stay a prisoner uh..

 

[Logiko]

Oh she will choose to stay a prisoner uh..

Why would she be a prisonner if she choose by herself to protect the country ?

 

[dizzy2341]

About that. I was rereading Dressrosa recently:

Spoiler: a panel

Yep. It's a very ignorant understanding of storytelling to think that the narrative is cast in stone over such statements. Especially ones as superficial and outright delusional as Yamao's.

Spoiler

It's like reading these pages and coming to the conclusion that there's no way Sanji can join the crew just because of how many times he stated that he wouldn't and claimed to have good reason not to.

Analysing the actual context of the scenes and the underlying ideas about the characters will reveal far more than any surface level statements.

 

[Rootbeer]

Why would she be a prisonner if she choose by herself to protect the country ?

She wants to leave..