He got hurt by the same swords that were hyped up to have been the only ones to hurt him. So nothing changed really. Again, we dont know that he knew about the hostage thing. And how do you know he was one the rope? The fight was inconclusive, he got hit fell down then Oden was rushing to attack him again, momo/old hag yells. He turns around for a split sec and kaido is already on his ass closing the gap and clubbing him. What exactly is telling us he wouldnt have been able to block that hit? If all it took is one panel for him to get up and close that distance as well as already having attacked him. Oda made it confusing and ambiguous for a reason. And i cant believe you forgot chapter 957 already. He got a good deal stronger, people's strenght isnt static. They change, look at luffy. Heck look at coby. Also,Not being able to be killed doesnt mean you cant be injured you know. So no, until proven otherwise, ill take oda's words and kaidos feats that he indeed is the strongest, and by that i mean by a very small marging. Enough to give him the edge.
Chapter Discussion Did Chapter 970 ruin your opinion on Kaido?
- Thread starter Lion of Olympus
- Start date
No i always had Kaidou amongst the Strongest Top tiers(high top tier) bt not the Strongest. I always counted Akainu, Teach n Dragon above him and they obviously will be. So can be Im Sama.
Good chance Shanks n Mihawk might also be above Kaidou.
Since these are the players reserved for the final arcs. Guys likr Dragon is yet to showcase his skills and more Oda hold back, more he has to make Dragon stronger to keep his relevance amongst the Strongest. Akainu n Teach are the EoS opponents for Luffy, and have to strongest force Luffy has faced in Onepiece. Same for Im Sama.
Also, its only natural another Top tier is capable of scarring a Top tier. More so since it was 20 years back, Kaidou obviously jumped a level or two in strength.
Good chance Shanks n Mihawk might also be above Kaidou.
Since these are the players reserved for the final arcs. Guys likr Dragon is yet to showcase his skills and more Oda hold back, more he has to make Dragon stronger to keep his relevance amongst the Strongest. Akainu n Teach are the EoS opponents for Luffy, and have to strongest force Luffy has faced in Onepiece. Same for Im Sama.
Also, its only natural another Top tier is capable of scarring a Top tier. More so since it was 20 years back, Kaidou obviously jumped a level or two in strength.
Kaido of the Hundred Hostages as he is known throughout the world. Sengoku when talking about his past in the Rocks emphasized that
When it was revealed in SBS 99 that Kaido held the narrator's son hostage, I wasn't surprised.
Prior to heading to fight Linlin in Onigashima, this was what Kaido asked his subordinates
However, once he arrived there and saw that Linlin was missing her homies, he decided to act tough and free her, only to inform her later that he was keeping Prometheus captive as a hostage.
His hostage tactics seem to transfer to members of his crew. It is widely speculated that it was indeed Kaido's plan to take Law's crew hostage, and Hawkins just acted out the plan.
Kaido as a Hostage Specialist would therefore know about this type of tactics and teach Hawkins.
Oda even confirmed that Kaido took his son hostage
and that only now when he is rescued can Oda write the truth again.
When it was revealed in SBS 99 that Kaido held the narrator's son hostage, I wasn't surprised.
Prior to heading to fight Linlin in Onigashima, this was what Kaido asked his subordinates
However, once he arrived there and saw that Linlin was missing her homies, he decided to act tough and free her, only to inform her later that he was keeping Prometheus captive as a hostage.
His hostage tactics seem to transfer to members of his crew. It is widely speculated that it was indeed Kaido's plan to take Law's crew hostage, and Hawkins just acted out the plan.
Kaido as a Hostage Specialist would therefore know about this type of tactics and teach Hawkins.
Oda even confirmed that Kaido took his son hostage
and that only now when he is rescued can Oda write the truth again.
Honestly, I was giving him the benefit of the doubt, but Oda went out of his way to make some differences about him
Kaido wasn't named anything. Kaido doesn't have a title. Oda on his own accord chose to differentiate between regular hearsay and actual titles. Nowhere in the canon material has Kaido been referred to as the actual WSC, there are always nuances being made to sway away from it.
Notice in the above panels how it's hearsay and a rumor, the same type of rumor like Luffy being a 25-foot-tall monster
Moreover, there are clues laid out that Kaido in fact might not be even human, and thus his supposed title should have no bearing on humans.
In addition, Kaido, in canon material, has only been referred to as the 'King of Beast', on multiple instances, whilst never referred to as the WSC
And no, that sbs did not confirm anything. Firstly, this is the official translation, not the OP wiki one. Even though they are similar, there are small nuances that make it different, such as 'even Kaido' not appearing. Moreover, Oda says world's strongest creature, not living being. In addition, he leaves no doubts to a mother actually being the WSC. He highlights it by saying she is stronger than Kaido, the supposed WSC, and she is thus the actual WSC. There's no room to debate about anything concerning the mother, as opposed to Kaido. And since it's a mother, the titles of WSM and WSS wouldn't fit.
If you want to bring up that panel, I'll just stop you preemptively and inform you that it was a comment made by an editor and does not appear in the Viz.
Now, I'll present a direct comparison with both Mihawk and Whitebeard. I won't elaborate here, because I've written everything in the panels themselves.
The quotation marks are present in the Japanese as well
Oda, on his own accord went out of his way to make a distinction.
Now let's talk more about betting on him in a 1 vs 1. Logically, as illustrated above, we have excluded two Yonko from that equation. All of the marine Admirals are fine, and there's no indication that neither of the three was defeated. I wouldn't be surprised if the rumour about Kaido started when he defeated Oden, without people knowing he used a cheap shot and underhanded tactics, as Oden was hailed as very strong, even had a bounty, and him taking over Wano, hailed as one of the strongest nations in the world, so much that the current FA of the Navy was more worried about the forces in Wano, rather than two of the Yonko when Kizaru offered himself to go there.
Kizaru was only stopped by Akainu due to the unknown military force in Wano. I stress again Wano, meaning Kizaru was gonna go to Wano, not somewhere along the way but Wano.
The rumour was made more believable when the people saw Kaido beating people like the SN, and adding them to their crew. The first time we see him engage a top tier it ends in a stalemate. Now, don't take me wrong, I am not saying Kaido isn't a top tier, he obviously is, but the more we see him, the more we look into the manga carefully, the more his hype suffers. Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.
Who did Kaido fight prior to the current story?
While it is true that Whitebeard possesses a magnanimous attitude, there is one thing he holds on a higher pedestal than that, and that's his crew and their lives. He was ready to wage war against the entire world in order to get back one of his crew members.
The reputation surrounding the WBP is that if you mess with one of their own you pay for it. Anyone who lays a hand on one of their own should be prepared to face consequences.
The only exemption from this, that we know of, was when Ace first tried to pursue Teach. Key word here being pursue.
however from the supposed implications of Kaido challenging the other Yonko, it appears that he goes after them in order to do so, not the other way around. Therefore, Kaido would have to seek out WB, completely opposite to what Ace did with Teach. Had Teach waltzed into WB's ship he wasn't going to leave that place alive, as it is later confirmed in MF and during the meeting between WB and Shanks.
When Shanks and WB met, WB stated his crew calls for vengeance and that Teach needs to pay for what he had done
In MF WB stated he will avenge Thatch and that Teach will pay with his life, even Teach himself was afraid of dying to WB
Now you might be wondering why I brought all of this up. It's to preemptively stop the WB and Kaido were crew members thing. It's widely known that pirates in the Rocks group vehemently disliked each other, and were killing one another constantly
there wasn't a bond between them like between other crews. Moreover, Kaido was merely an apprentice in the Rocks crew
meaning he was very young and had spent significantly less time with WB, not to mention things point to bad relationships between the crew, than BB who had served under WB's flag for decades
The point I am making with this is that WB was ready to kill Teach, someone he called son, someone who had spent decades with him, to avenge a fallen comrade and crew member, as illustrated above.
Kaido is not only the one who killed the man WB himself called his little brother
but also the man who took over his country. We also know that WB is protective of his friends' countries, as he protected FI as a favour to his friend Neptune
Kaido and Linlin haven't seen each other in decades.
WB didn't hear Shanks' name in years, implying he hadn't done anything noteworthy in that period
So who did Kaido fight before the current story?
The hostage situation really threw me off. As I've said, the rumour about Kaido started when he defeated Oden, without people knowing he used a cheap shot and underhanded tactics, as Oden was hailed as very strong, even had a bounty, and him taking over Wano, hailed as one of the strongest nations in the world, so much that the current FA of the Navy was more worried about the forces in Wano, rather than two of the Yonko when Kizaru offered himself to go there. The rumour was made more believable when the people saw Kaido beating people like the SN, and adding them to their crew. The first time we see him engage a top tier it ends in a stalemate. Now, don't take me wrong, I am not saying Kaido isn't a top tier, he obviously is, but the more we see him, the more we look into the manga carefully, the more his hype suffers. Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.
Kaido wasn't named anything. Kaido doesn't have a title. Oda on his own accord chose to differentiate between regular hearsay and actual titles. Nowhere in the canon material has Kaido been referred to as the actual WSC, there are always nuances being made to sway away from it.
Moreover, there are clues laid out that Kaido in fact might not be even human, and thus his supposed title should have no bearing on humans.
In addition, Kaido, in canon material, has only been referred to as the 'King of Beast', on multiple instances, whilst never referred to as the WSC
If you want to bring up that panel, I'll just stop you preemptively and inform you that it was a comment made by an editor and does not appear in the Viz.
Now, I'll present a direct comparison with both Mihawk and Whitebeard. I won't elaborate here, because I've written everything in the panels themselves.
Now let's talk more about betting on him in a 1 vs 1. Logically, as illustrated above, we have excluded two Yonko from that equation. All of the marine Admirals are fine, and there's no indication that neither of the three was defeated. I wouldn't be surprised if the rumour about Kaido started when he defeated Oden, without people knowing he used a cheap shot and underhanded tactics, as Oden was hailed as very strong, even had a bounty, and him taking over Wano, hailed as one of the strongest nations in the world, so much that the current FA of the Navy was more worried about the forces in Wano, rather than two of the Yonko when Kizaru offered himself to go there.
The rumour was made more believable when the people saw Kaido beating people like the SN, and adding them to their crew. The first time we see him engage a top tier it ends in a stalemate. Now, don't take me wrong, I am not saying Kaido isn't a top tier, he obviously is, but the more we see him, the more we look into the manga carefully, the more his hype suffers. Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.
Who did Kaido fight prior to the current story?
While it is true that Whitebeard possesses a magnanimous attitude, there is one thing he holds on a higher pedestal than that, and that's his crew and their lives. He was ready to wage war against the entire world in order to get back one of his crew members.
The reputation surrounding the WBP is that if you mess with one of their own you pay for it. Anyone who lays a hand on one of their own should be prepared to face consequences.
The only exemption from this, that we know of, was when Ace first tried to pursue Teach. Key word here being pursue.
however from the supposed implications of Kaido challenging the other Yonko, it appears that he goes after them in order to do so, not the other way around. Therefore, Kaido would have to seek out WB, completely opposite to what Ace did with Teach. Had Teach waltzed into WB's ship he wasn't going to leave that place alive, as it is later confirmed in MF and during the meeting between WB and Shanks.
When Shanks and WB met, WB stated his crew calls for vengeance and that Teach needs to pay for what he had done
In MF WB stated he will avenge Thatch and that Teach will pay with his life, even Teach himself was afraid of dying to WB
Now you might be wondering why I brought all of this up. It's to preemptively stop the WB and Kaido were crew members thing. It's widely known that pirates in the Rocks group vehemently disliked each other, and were killing one another constantly
there wasn't a bond between them like between other crews. Moreover, Kaido was merely an apprentice in the Rocks crew
meaning he was very young and had spent significantly less time with WB, not to mention things point to bad relationships between the crew, than BB who had served under WB's flag for decades
Kaido is not only the one who killed the man WB himself called his little brother
Kaido and Linlin haven't seen each other in decades.
WB didn't hear Shanks' name in years, implying he hadn't done anything noteworthy in that period
The hostage situation really threw me off. As I've said, the rumour about Kaido started when he defeated Oden, without people knowing he used a cheap shot and underhanded tactics, as Oden was hailed as very strong, even had a bounty, and him taking over Wano, hailed as one of the strongest nations in the world, so much that the current FA of the Navy was more worried about the forces in Wano, rather than two of the Yonko when Kizaru offered himself to go there. The rumour was made more believable when the people saw Kaido beating people like the SN, and adding them to their crew. The first time we see him engage a top tier it ends in a stalemate. Now, don't take me wrong, I am not saying Kaido isn't a top tier, he obviously is, but the more we see him, the more we look into the manga carefully, the more his hype suffers. Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.
i rate his Base higher than Dragon in 1v1 . and Hybrid is above Base
i think Kizaru can troll his Dragon form . against Base Kaido ? can't really do that
Also his base is already durable , and it'll be covered with scales as well in Hybrid , his Hybrid durability will be > Dragon's
i think what i said might actually be a wrong/weak reasoning . still Mihawk could look stronger later due to performing arcs after Kaido
this is why other Warlords ( even weakest ones ) look far stronger than Crocodile ( in Alabasta ) , it was because other Warlords performed/taken out way later in the story
i think the minimum strength to be a Warlord is below YC3 and above Veterans , like Law Jinbe Hancock are ( Moria maybe was here as well , but in his prime i think he was the YC1 of Warlords ) , yet Crocodile was nowhere near even Veterans in Alabasta
Mihawk appeared before him , but Mihawk wasn't taken out like Crocodile was , instead he was set as Zoro's final fight before becoming WSS
Buggy is also a special case due to having Impel Down prisoners ( that World Gov would want to monitor ) and overall powerful crew with 5 Elbaf Giants
Crocodile got retconned in Marineford though
Kaido should easily be the most known Emperor to Marines ( he challenged them several times and got captured and tortured , given death sentences )
yet Kizaru wanted to go to his territory as the only Admiral , with Akainu only stopping him because Wano's unknown military power
so i don't believe Admirals were the ones executing him , especially when Roger and Ace were executed by regulars
i think Kizaru can troll his Dragon form . against Base Kaido ? can't really do that
Also his base is already durable , and it'll be covered with scales as well in Hybrid , his Hybrid durability will be > Dragon's
i think what i said might actually be a wrong/weak reasoning . still Mihawk could look stronger later due to performing arcs after Kaido
this is why other Warlords ( even weakest ones ) look far stronger than Crocodile ( in Alabasta ) , it was because other Warlords performed/taken out way later in the story
i think the minimum strength to be a Warlord is below YC3 and above Veterans , like Law Jinbe Hancock are ( Moria maybe was here as well , but in his prime i think he was the YC1 of Warlords ) , yet Crocodile was nowhere near even Veterans in Alabasta
Mihawk appeared before him , but Mihawk wasn't taken out like Crocodile was , instead he was set as Zoro's final fight before becoming WSS
Buggy is also a special case due to having Impel Down prisoners ( that World Gov would want to monitor ) and overall powerful crew with 5 Elbaf Giants
Crocodile got retconned in Marineford though
Kaido should easily be the most known Emperor to Marines ( he challenged them several times and got captured and tortured , given death sentences )
yet Kizaru wanted to go to his territory as the only Admiral , with Akainu only stopping him because Wano's unknown military power
so i don't believe Admirals were the ones executing him , especially when Roger and Ace were executed by regulars
Akainu used cheap tactics to seriously injure WB at the beginning of MF war, did that mean Akainu was afraid of WB or did it any way ruin his image?? Kizaru did the same to Marco, infact distracting opponents and stabbing them in the back was every Admiral's main ammunition in order to get rid of WB and his commanders during MF. It's not something new, all is fair in war.
I don't think we can attribute Oden hurting Kaidou to "Oden's swords". There was a misconception that he was hurt by Enma, so I & others assumed Oden cut Kaidou in a last ditch effort thanks to Enma's ability to gather large amounts of Ryou/Haki but in 970, we find out that he was also cut by Ame no Habakiri in what appeared to be a casual slash so that theory is out the window. Oden cut Kaidou simply because he was strong enough to so even though Kaidou is more durable than most top tiers, he isn't invulnerable to attacks from opponents as strong as or stronger than him.
And yh Kaidou was defo on the ropes there lolz, he was down with Oden about to deliver a fatal blow. Whether he would've been down for the count after it is anyone's guess, but he was defo at a disadvantage till the hostage card was played.
Lastly, I don't really buy Kaidou not knowing about the hostage situation as 1.) Kaidou himself admitted that he was wary of Oden's strength hence a motive as to why he would've played such a dirty trick 2.) it happened way to conveniently for it to have been something that happened by chance and Kaidou didn't waste a second taking advantage of it....lolz. If he hadn't known about it, I don't think he would've dealt with that situation so efficiently. Like Oden, he would've been taken by surprise by it if he truly didn't know about it.
And yh Kaidou was defo on the ropes there lolz, he was down with Oden about to deliver a fatal blow. Whether he would've been down for the count after it is anyone's guess, but he was defo at a disadvantage till the hostage card was played.
Lastly, I don't really buy Kaidou not knowing about the hostage situation as 1.) Kaidou himself admitted that he was wary of Oden's strength hence a motive as to why he would've played such a dirty trick 2.) it happened way to conveniently for it to have been something that happened by chance and Kaidou didn't waste a second taking advantage of it....lolz. If he hadn't known about it, I don't think he would've dealt with that situation so efficiently. Like Oden, he would've been taken by surprise by it if he truly didn't know about it.
In the viz scans it says, one of the only swords to hurt him. Not the only sword. So its enma and Ame no habakiri, and dont call what he did casual, thats disingenuous. It was a named attack. Never once did kaido said that he was worried that oden was stronger than him, he said we wouldve been at a disadvantage 5 years ago and i wouldve had to sacrifice a lot more people. Aokiji didnt expect jozu to be distracted by WB and yet at soon as it happened he finished him off, the same with marco and kizaru. You think top tiers have 0 reaction time? Both me and you are headcanoning hard right now. So i suggest we wait and see if it was really kaido's idea or if he was in on it before casting the stone. The rest of what you said is pure headcanon. Nothing shows that kaido was going to get finished off by oden's next attack. I saw the man, get up and run up to oden and club him in the split moment it took for oden to turn around and see momo. You wanna tell me the dude couldnt have blocked his next attack? And, again, no one said he was invincible. Just that he was unkillable, its not oda's fault fans theorised bs about oden being that much below oden that he had to store up haki and using it in a last ditch effort as you said. Its on you. Instead of downplaying Kaido, its best to hype up oden. Which was the intended purpose of the chapter.
I believe the objective was to stop the meeting. And admiral showing up with a lot of battle ships to, say stop big mom from reaching wano or atleast present enough threat to dissuade her from further continuing seems okay to me. I agree with what you are telling king, but one piece doesnt follow a linear story when it comes to its villains strenght. For example, magellan came before ceasar and doffy yet im pretty sure he beats them both. And we still dont eveen know if kaido is going down this arc or how hes going to, the objective is to open up wano.And,as i said, if kaido falls to a group but mihawk falls to zoro down the line. That doesnt dehype kaido at all. The strongest can fall before, as evidenced by whitebeard and now i believe kaido. I do think the marines and yonko(bb, possibly bm turning against him) are getting involved. It will make his eventual defeat epic and good enough for him to have been the strongest at the time believable. What do you think my friend?
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I believe the objective was to stop the meeting. And admiral showing up with a lot of battle ships to, say stop big mom from reaching wano or atleast present enough threat to dissuade her from further continuing seems okay to me. I agree with what you are telling king, but one piece doesnt follow a linear story when it comes to its villains strenght. For example, magellan came before ceasar and doffy yet im pretty sure he beats them both. And we still dont eveen know if kaido is going down this arc or how hes going to, the objective is to open up wano.And,as i said, if kaido falls to a group but mihawk falls to zoro down the line. That doesnt dehype kaido at all. The strongest can fall before, as evidenced by whitebeard and now i believe kaido. I do think the marines and yonko(bb, possibly bm turning against him) are getting involved. It will make his eventual defeat epic and good enough for him to have been the strongest at the time believable. What do you think my friend?
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it totally rruined it for me. WSC shouldn't resort to that to win, hostages, a hit from the back, etc.
it ruined it more especially because Kaidou has such a hulking and badass design i really like. A man of such cowardice and cheapshots doesn't deserve such title and design.
so i guess Admirals, other Yonkou, Mihawk, or the next WSM should also prepare for the next batches of humiliation by Oda because even WSC is no exception.
No durability against a fish, postponing matches, getting dodged by G2 Luffy despita not holding back, getting wounded by a picture, we should wait for meaner versions of those. Maybe except Mihawk and Zoro, since Oda favors japanese and makes them look badass all the time.
it ruined it more especially because Kaidou has such a hulking and badass design i really like. A man of such cowardice and cheapshots doesn't deserve such title and design.
so i guess Admirals, other Yonkou, Mihawk, or the next WSM should also prepare for the next batches of humiliation by Oda because even WSC is no exception.
No durability against a fish, postponing matches, getting dodged by G2 Luffy despita not holding back, getting wounded by a picture, we should wait for meaner versions of those. Maybe except Mihawk and Zoro, since Oda favors japanese and makes them look badass all the time.
J
only if you believe someone didnt grow in 20 years despite being in 30s and no mentipm of him being growing weaker or stagnating.
Or Oden was weaker than inbetweeners
Or Kaido was dying or whatever
The dude got cut where he has no scales, oden was enraged and failed to do what he wanted.
he beat Oden with nameless breath and club attack
He never ordered the hostage trick.
He is just like admirals or WB, using distraction for his own benefit.
He isn't some Katakuri. The only thing that hot ruins is that I expected him to be pissed if someone else interferes or acts to affect the battle . But nah, despite not pulling the trick, he didnt get mad at the old hag.
Even WB attacks from behind
Oda ruined that battle Kaido vs oden
The old hag is flampe 2.0 , ruining the battle
Or Oden was weaker than inbetweeners
Or Kaido was dying or whatever
The dude got cut where he has no scales, oden was enraged and failed to do what he wanted.
he beat Oden with nameless breath and club attack
He never ordered the hostage trick.
He is just like admirals or WB, using distraction for his own benefit.
He isn't some Katakuri. The only thing that hot ruins is that I expected him to be pissed if someone else interferes or acts to affect the battle . But nah, despite not pulling the trick, he didnt get mad at the old hag.
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Even WB attacks from behind
Oda ruined that battle Kaido vs oden
The old hag is flampe 2.0 , ruining the battle
M
Those who had over-expectation of Kaido are definitely disappointed or in denial. Here is the thing, Kaido is the Mid-story antagonist. Oda couldn't make him the strongest ever. But since Kaido was the first antagonist of a new level, Oda hyped him.
When the dust settles with One Piece, Kaido and BM will be remembered as weakest top tiers. [Oda may even introduce another level altogether].
When the dust settles with One Piece, Kaido and BM will be remembered as weakest top tiers. [Oda may even introduce another level altogether].