General & Others Oden was a shit leader and deserved to die

#61
Yeah, and Riku Dold decided to collect all the money from the people of Dressrosa and that allowed Doflamingo to overthrow him.

And Nami trusted that Arlong would keep his word and shouldered the burden for an entire village

And Robin trusted the organisation responsible for the genocide of her village to leave the Strawhats alone, only to be shocked when at the first technicality they tried to murder them

And Zoro listened to Helmeppo's promise

And Vivi thought she could save the day without anyone dying

And Shirahoshi kept the identity of her mother's assassin hidden in a misguided attempt to honour her

And Sanji fed the pirates who would have ended up destroying everything he loved. And then believed Big Mom would simply let the Strawhats go.

And Ace went charging off solo after Blackbeard despite Whitebeard telling him not to

And in the end all these characters fucked up and Luffy needed to save the day. And despite that, Oda has always portrayed what the characters did as being noble, but misguided.

Kinda hard to take these criticisms seriously nearly a thousand chapters in. Much like the ones over Oden vs Kaido not being a full fight. You should know how Oda does things by now. A heroic One Piece character trying to take on a burden vastly beyond him and trusting the villain? And this... doesn't work?

I

Am

Shocked

(also we're four minutes into the hour of legends, the citizens have just found out about Oden's actions and there's plenty of time to expand on them. This thread could prove very premature)

Oden's big mistake wasn't trusting Orochi and Kaido. It was going to sea in the first place. That's what actually led to their rise. But that's a mistake that ultimately will lead to the world being saved, because Oden's instrumental in Roger becoming Pirate King, and Roger becoming Pirate King leads to Luffy

And then, maybe, trusting that he was strong enough to deal with whatever had happened to Wano in his absence. Which is understandable to an extent. Oden as of Raftel is one of the strongest men in the world. He's aware that something has gone wrong in his absence, but he believes he can deal with it. What he doesn't know is that someone has managed to infiltrate isolationist Wano- which isn't that surprising, given that Oden had only ever known three groups to actually get to Wano- the shipwrecked Inu and Neko, shipwrecked Whitebeard and Roger, who actually sailed there. An outsider like Kaido being there was not something I'd imagine Oden to have expected.

Then when he's arrived he does go to war- and discovers too late that Kaido's a threat beyond his ability. And Orochi does point out that if he attempts to fight, he will lose. He'll do a hell of a lot of damage, but he will lose. Where does that leave Wano? And he can't go for help, because, again, Wano is isolationist. We saw at the start of the flashback, Oden is literally incapable of leaving without help. So he goes with what's seemingly the best option, Orochi's deal, and for five years that seems to be working.
 
S

Shura

#62
Yeah, and Riku Dold decided to collect all the money from the people of Dressrosa and that allowed Doflamingo to overthrow him.

And Nami trusted that Arlong would keep his word and shouldered the burden for an entire village

And Robin trusted the organisation responsible for the genocide of her village to leave the Strawhats alone, only to be shocked when at the first technicality they tried to murder them

And Zoro listened to Helmeppo's promise

And Vivi thought she could save the day without anyone dying

And Shirahoshi kept the identity of her mother's assassin hidden in a misguided attempt to honour her

And Sanji fed the pirates who would have ended up destroying everything he loved. And then believed Big Mom would simply let the Strawhats go.

And Ace went charging off solo after Blackbeard despite Whitebeard telling him not to

And in the end all these characters fucked up and Luffy needed to save the day. And despite that, Oda has always portrayed what the characters did as being noble, but misguided.

Kinda hard to take these criticisms seriously nearly a thousand chapters in. Much like the ones over Oden vs Kaido not being a full fight. You should know how Oda does things by now. A heroic One Piece character trying to take on a burden vastly beyond him and trusting the villain? And this... doesn't work?

I

Am

Shocked

(also we're four minutes into the hour of legends, the citizens have just found out about Oden's actions and there's plenty of time to expand on them. This thread could prove very premature)

Oden's big mistake wasn't trusting Orochi and Kaido. It was going to sea in the first place. That's what actually led to their rise. But that's a mistake that ultimately will lead to the world being saved, because Oden's instrumental in Roger becoming Pirate King, and Roger becoming Pirate King leads to Luffy

And then, maybe, trusting that he was strong enough to deal with whatever had happened to Wano in his absence. Which is understandable to an extent. Oden as of Raftel is one of the strongest men in the world. He's aware that something has gone wrong in his absence, but he believes he can deal with it. What he doesn't know is that someone has managed to infiltrate isolationist Wano- which isn't that surprising, given that Oden had only ever known three groups to actually get to Wano- the shipwrecked Inu and Neko, shipwrecked Whitebeard and Roger, who actually sailed there. An outsider like Kaido being there was not something I'd imagine Oden to have expected.

Then when he's arrived he does go to war- and discovers too late that Kaido's a threat beyond his ability. And Orochi does point out that if he attempts to fight, he will lose. He'll do a hell of a lot of damage, but he will lose. Where does that leave Wano? And he can't go for help, because, again, Wano is isolationist. We saw at the start of the flashback, Oden is literally incapable of leaving without help. So he goes with what's seemingly the best option, Orochi's deal, and for five years that seems to be working.
dude....well put....
 
#63
So Oden should’ve risked the lives of all the Wano citizens (including the 100s of kidnapped lives at stake) & the complete ruin of Wano by going to war with underhanded scum who couldn’t care less if the country burnt to ground because he had a 50/50% chance of winning against Kaidou & Orochi😂. What do y’all think would’ve happened if Oden lost that war? Y’all think the citizens will praise if for a job well done lolz. The same citizens he tried to save would be the ones cursing him that they’d have preferred to be persecuted under Orochi & Kaidou’s rule & would’ve prolly ended up being slaves regardless only with even more dire circumstances. Even if Oden won, yh he beat Kaidou & Orochi, but what’s a nation without its people? Do y’all realize how many innocent lives would’ve been lost as a result of that? Also think about what Orochi wants for a sec, do you think he’d give a shit if he died provided he dragged Wano down to hell with him? 😓The Old reckless Oden would’ve prolly fought Kaidou five ago which would’ve undoubtedly led to dire circumstances & potentially the ruin of Wano but the new Oden isn’t as reckless & short sighted and the result of that is that Wano will be saved 20 years later as a result of his decision.
 
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#64
Are you fucking sure? Read the title of the thread

Yes, Oden was a great leader. Kuri became great when Oden took over. And he had loyal followers. I'm sure if he had given a chance of a shugon title, he'd be great at it.

Oden deserved to die? Get the fuck out with that bullshit. @Monkey D Theories
Man you should calm your tits i don't agree with Oden deserving death or anything lol
 
#65
Ugh, here we go again!
Deserve to die?
No if any citizens doesn't like what Oden did, why don't they do something about it themselves???? Why don't they grow two balls and go and attack Kaido and Orochi? instead of complaining!

People who whine and do nothing are the last people who should talk about Oden deserving to die. Oden with his dances didn't harm any soul. Doesn't matter if the citizens wanted Oden to take action and overthrow Kaido or not. Oden's decision is his OWN. If those citizens don't like it, they can go and overthrow Kaido themselves, but oh wait, they can't, so they can shut up, and eat shit basically and accept the sacrifices Oden made without complaint.
 

RayanOO

Lazy is the way
#66
So Oden should’ve risked the lives of all the Wano citizens (including the 100s of kidnapped lives at stake) & the complete ruin of Wano by going to war with underhanded scum who couldn’t care less if the country burnt to ground because he had a 50/50% chance of winning against Kaidou & Orochi😂. What do y’all think would’ve happened if Oden lost that war? Y’all think the citizens will praise if for a job well done lolz. The same citizens he tried to save would be the ones cursing him that they’d have preferred to be persecute under Orochi & Kaidou’s rule & would’ve prolly ended up being slaves regardless only with even more dire circumstances. Even if Oden won, yh he beat Kaidou & Orochi, but what’s a nation without its people? Do y’all realize how many innocent lives would’ve been lost as a result of that? Also think about what Orochi wants for a sec, do you think he’d give a shit would if he died provided he dragged Wano down to hell with him? 😓The Old reckless Oden would’ve prolly fought Kaidou five ago which would’ve undoubtedly led to dire circumstances & potentially the ruin of Wano but the new Oden isn’t as reckless & short sighted and the result of that is that Wano will be saved 20 years later as a result of his decision.
I agree that it is a difficult choice and Oden character is Oden character, so in his point of view it was the best decision.

But from an outside/real look yes it is better to gamble it all and go to war against this type of enemy than bargaining with madmen and untrusting piratas.

It is better to loose a lot of people and to still have your liberty and it deserves that people fight and die for it.
It is a war so obviously people would have died but it is better than to be enslaved and lead by horrible people.

OT : obviously Odeon doesn't deserve to die he tried to do the best for his people every time.
But tactical wise he made a bad choice.
 
H

Homelander

#67
Huh?

You realise this is why this plot is a mistake right?
If Oda never had Kaido un wano 26 years ago
If he made Kaido invade wano 20 years ago only.

We wouldn't have this mess of naive Oden and different Kaido
You take too much on analysis. Why didn't oden xyz or scheme ? He wanted status queue to be same.

He was okay with orochi being shogun as well wano safety. They agreed to a deal.

Oden was naive because of plot lol. Oda wanted his hero to fall from grace .

It wouldnt make sense if he invaded 20 years ago , there would still be plot why wano public started hating him. This was whole point oden fall from grace in eye of his own people. His demise was not pippen soup but people did not unit under him or help him lol.

Real villains were wano civilians they wanted oden to solve everything later berrates him because he failed against kaido. They were bunch of whiner who wanted messiah to solve their problem.
 
H

Homelander

#69
Yeah, and Riku Dold decided to collect all the money from the people of Dressrosa and that allowed Doflamingo to overthrow him.

And Nami trusted that Arlong would keep his word and shouldered the burden for an entire village

And Robin trusted the organisation responsible for the genocide of her village to leave the Strawhats alone, only to be shocked when at the first technicality they tried to murder them

And Zoro listened to Helmeppo's promise

And Vivi thought she could save the day without anyone dying

And Shirahoshi kept the identity of her mother's assassin hidden in a misguided attempt to honour her

And Sanji fed the pirates who would have ended up destroying everything he loved. And then believed Big Mom would simply let the Strawhats go.

And Ace went charging off solo after Blackbeard despite Whitebeard telling him not to

And in the end all these characters fucked up and Luffy needed to save the day. And despite that, Oda has always portrayed what the characters did as being noble, but misguided.

Kinda hard to take these criticisms seriously nearly a thousand chapters in. Much like the ones over Oden vs Kaido not being a full fight. You should know how Oda does things by now. A heroic One Piece character trying to take on a burden vastly beyond him and trusting the villain? And this... doesn't work?

I

Am

Shocked

(also we're four minutes into the hour of legends, the citizens have just found out about Oden's actions and there's plenty of time to expand on them. This thread could prove very premature)

Oden's big mistake wasn't trusting Orochi and Kaido. It was going to sea in the first place. That's what actually led to their rise. But that's a mistake that ultimately will lead to the world being saved, because Oden's instrumental in Roger becoming Pirate King, and Roger becoming Pirate King leads to Luffy

And then, maybe, trusting that he was strong enough to deal with whatever had happened to Wano in his absence. Which is understandable to an extent. Oden as of Raftel is one of the strongest men in the world. He's aware that something has gone wrong in his absence, but he believes he can deal with it. What he doesn't know is that someone has managed to infiltrate isolationist Wano- which isn't that surprising, given that Oden had only ever known three groups to actually get to Wano- the shipwrecked Inu and Neko, shipwrecked Whitebeard and Roger, who actually sailed there. An outsider like Kaido being there was not something I'd imagine Oden to have expected.

Then when he's arrived he does go to war- and discovers too late that Kaido's a threat beyond his ability. And Orochi does point out that if he attempts to fight, he will lose. He'll do a hell of a lot of damage, but he will lose. Where does that leave Wano? And he can't go for help, because, again, Wano is isolationist. We saw at the start of the flashback, Oden is literally incapable of leaving without help. So he goes with what's seemingly the best option, Orochi's deal, and for five years that seems to be working.
Haha you just rekt this thread. Yep pretty much i wanted to say.
 
J

Jo_Ndule

#70
You take too much on analysis. Why didn't oden xyz or scheme ? He wanted status queue to be same.

He was okay with orochi being shogun as well wano safety. They agreed to a deal.

Oden was naive because of plot lol. Oda wanted his hero to fall from grace .

It wouldnt make sense if he invaded 20 years ago , there would still be plot why wano public started hating him. This was whole point oden fall from grace in eye of his own people. His demise was not pippen soup but people did not unit under him or help him lol.

Real villains were wano civilians they wanted oden to solve everything later berrates him because he failed against kaido. They were bunch of whiner who wanted messiah to solve their problem.
It would made more sense if he invaded 20 years ago

You wanna defend the 5 years stupid plot

Oden blew 3 chances he had to overthrow Kaido and orochi

First 26 years ago when he dropped his fam, he had Roger pirates with him. He was too selfish to go to a trip than save his country.
Secondly 25 years ago, he recused Rayleigh help coz he was too prideful and thought he can do it alone
Thirdly 5 years and trusted those 2, didnt team up with Hyou coz well
"Lemme trust the villains "

You cannot give Oden a pass.

He was a bad leader.

Saving 100s but risking millions for 26 years
Post automatically merged:

What did knowing one piece do good to wano people? NOTHING!!
 

Reborn

Throughout Heaven & Earth,I alone am d Honored One
#71
I think you guys missed something crcuial regarding oden's character.

In just span of few chapters oden went from being wild, reckless madman to someone who believed orochi words and dance naked for five years until he lost it. What does it imply? A deliberate inconsistency which you guys are misinterpreting as oden is trash like usual.

Oden had an ambition to open wano's border. He went with roger to raftel and also has VOAT. He learnt how important it is for him to open wano border not just for wano but also for the world before joy boy re appears.

He returns to wano and went after orochi recklessly to get his throne back but then in just few hours his nature got changed and he agreed with orochi promise. Why?

Because he had no option.

He would have fought a war which he would have lost with massive casualties. Even if he defeats orochi and co then what's the gurantee that he would have lived (the only one in wano who knows purpose of opening wano border). Who would have carried on his legacy and ambition?

And, a totally devasted closed wano would be of no help for joyboy. A totally devasted wano would be more vulnerable to outside force like navy or other strong pirates than being under orochi if oden ensures wano remain in good condition with minimal sacrfices before joy boy appears

Chapter 970 clearly says that oden was a man not afraid of any sacrifice yet he chose a soft path.

Why? To ensure that wano remains in as good of condition by saving lives of many samurais as possible even at the cost of his own rep which he was pulling up for 5 years...and soft path? It was the hardest path for him to walk through yet he walked bearing everything on his shoulder for the sake of wano...and you say he is trash?
What a joke....

You say he could have liberated wano if he would have fought earlier....may be but at what cost?

The decision he took,the path he took was much more difficult than simply deciding for war which you meant with Churchill and Hitler we example....


He was naive..yes..he made a mistake in believing that this path is right choice..but who doesn't make mistakes? All great leaders does it.

Oden decision though back fired showed how big of leader he is if you understand what being fukn leader means.
 
#72
I agree that it is a difficult choice and Oden character is Oden character, so in his point of view it was the best decision.

But from an outside/real look yes it is better to gamble it all and go to war against this type of enemy than bargaining with madmen and untrusting piratas.

It is better to loose a lot of people and to still have your liberty and it deserves that people fight and die for it.
It is a war so obviously people would have died but it is better than to be enslaved and lead by horrible people.

OT : obviously Odeon doesn't deserve to die he tried to do the best for his people every time.
But tactical wise he made a bad choice.
I don’t really agree with that train of thought tho but hey maybe that’s just me. I’d personally prefer a leader like Oden who prioritizes the lives of all his people first & exhausts all available options before choosing to wage war. Especially if it’s against someone like Orochi who doesn’t really have anything to lose. There’s a saying in Japanese ‘死んだら、元も子もない/Shindara moto mo ko mo
nai’ ⇨ If you die you have nothing/zilch. (Basically there is always hope long as you’re alive is how the saying comes across to me anyways). Also you say freedom, but what good will earned freedom do if there are no people left to experience it. Moreover Oden wasn’t guaranteed a victory over Kaidou & Orochi 5 years ago. Heck even with Kaidou’s army growing larger over 5 years, Oden was still able to pressure Kaidou & could’ve taken his head but still ultimately lost not necessarily coz of the size of Kaidou’s army but rather coz of how twisted Orochi & Kaidou are.
 

RayanOO

Lazy is the way
#75
I’d personally prefer a leader like Oden who prioritizes the lives of all his people first & exhausts all available options before choosing to wage war.
It is obviously better to try to find an other way than to go to war, but it depends with who you bargain and what is the situation and the risks.

If war can be avoided by making compromises or even by loosing something but keeping your people safe it is okay for me. But when the enemy is not to trust and are barbarian and only seek bad things for your people sometimes war can be the only solution. It really depends what kind of oppressor is in front of you.

Even more if you think you have a reasonable chance to take down your foe.

I prefer to risk my life and that my country risks a good deal but to stay true to its valors, to keep its liberty, and that my people don't end up deprieve for their fondamental rights.

And not everyone will go to war : women, children, oldies, some young man too etc.

I have no problem to surrender to an enemy that beat me to protect what is left of my country. But is also depends what kind of oppressor I have in front of me and what conditions they want. Some things cannot be negociated.

But I think we are not really on topic ^^.
 
#76
Yeah, and Riku Dold decided to collect all the money from the people of Dressrosa and that allowed Doflamingo to overthrow him.

And Nami trusted that Arlong would keep his word and shouldered the burden for an entire village

And Robin trusted the organisation responsible for the genocide of her village to leave the Strawhats alone, only to be shocked when at the first technicality they tried to murder them

And Zoro listened to Helmeppo's promise

And Vivi thought she could save the day without anyone dying

And Shirahoshi kept the identity of her mother's assassin hidden in a misguided attempt to honour her

And Sanji fed the pirates who would have ended up destroying everything he loved. And then believed Big Mom would simply let the Strawhats go.

And Ace went charging off solo after Blackbeard despite Whitebeard telling him not to

And in the end all these characters fucked up and Luffy needed to save the day. And despite that, Oda has always portrayed what the characters did as being noble, but misguided.
you really just list those situations without considering the reasons that come with them . :kriwhat:

1-zoro was a PH who works with the marines ?! zoro already know that they expect him to die in 1 month thats why he said he will endure it and survive this whole month. even if zoro died there he is not responsible for anything toward that village except oden who is whole wano is his country and he's the right ruler , his death means a lot for them .

2-DId you know how old is Nami when she made that deal with Arlong :pepeke: ,12 years young girl , poor nami :perocry:




3- Riku Dold is not strong as oden even not 1/4 of oden strength , and the man who deal with him is CD , so how in the hell can he stop this devil ?!




and even if sanji, robin are naif to belief in WG & Bigmom

but you can justify it cuz they are WEAK

while Oden is fkn STRONG .
 
#78
you really just list those situations without considering the reasons that come with them
No, I know they had their reasons. That's why I said this

And despite that, Oda has always portrayed what the characters did as being noble, but misguided.
All these characters, Oden included, have had reason for doing what they did. But they were all, ultimately, mistaken.
and even if sanji, robin are naifwhile Oden is fkn STRONG .
Not strong enough



Oden could have went to war, sure. He wasn't strong enough to win though. Could give it the good college try, but in the end he would have died, along with thousands others.
 
#80
No, I know they had their reasons. That's why I said this



All these characters, Oden included, have had reason for doing what they did. But they were all, ultimately, mistaken.


Not strong enough



Oden could have went to war, sure. He wasn't strong enough to win though. Could give it the good college try, but in the end he would have died, along with thousands others.
God damn it hahahaha
I still cannot get over how skinny Kaido's legs look like!
He looks like Weevle hahahahaha

WTF Oda
The problem is, it's probably just Oda's drawing mistakes with his inconsistent measurements hahaha. But for real, what the fuck Oda! Those are not legs of human being. Those are chicken legs
 
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