Chapter Discussion One Piece - Chapter 972: I’m Oden and I was Born to Boil

[Redx]

Haven't read the chapter yet and don't plan to until better translations come out. I refuse to read it in poor quality.

But I'm commenting because I couldn't help but notice people bringing up prophecies, destiny and even comparing this to Naruto.....??? if you're claiming that this is the same or that Oda is saying that Luffy is a chosen one, then you are very confused.

The reason people complained about Naruto back then wasn't because it had themes of destiny and prophecy. It was because it set up the thematic idea of fighting against those concepts only to reveal the that protagonist was fulfilling a destiny the entire time. It contradicted itself. That was the problem. Or atleast thats how things are perceived. In Naruto, Naruto was always destined for greatness. Such is not the same for Luffy.

Oden isn't even claiming that Luffy specifically is the chosen one. Oden, Roger, and people like them who are waiting for the Dawn just believe that someone will come along. It could literally be anyone. Which is no different than saying that someone will go to Walmart today. Or that someone will go to McDonalds and order a Big Mac :rolleyes:. It's such a general statement that calling it "destiny" when someone actually shows up is fucking silly. It was bound to happen anyway.

And thats the difference between the two series. They're making two completely different comments on Destiny. Blackbeard and the Blackbeard Pirates are the only ones who genuinely believe that fate has decided everything already. That destiny is predetermined. But Luffy represents the opposite. And this is clearly represented for us as one of the themes of Luffy vs Katakuri. At the start of the fight it's asked "Who decides the Future?" at the end of the fight we have the answer. Luffy the Man of Action succeeds over the man who can merely see the Future. As Bege points out for us "Everyone has the power to change the Future". He who takes action is the one who decides the future. And so Luffy, by constantly taking action, is actively creating his destiny. He wasn't born to be Pirate King. But by constantly taking action he's actively turning himself into the only man who could be Pirate King. He wasn't chosen by fate. He chose himself. And through sheer force of will he continues to turn himself into the man he wants to be. Thats the difference between what Blackbeard believes and Luffy represents and what One Piece is ultimately saying about fate & destiny.

One the otherhand, in the eyes of many readers, Naruto was seemingly trying to make a comment of fighting destiny and failed. Thats where the criticism came from.

Whereas One Piece is ultimately leading to a clash of self-made destiny(Luffy) VS predetermined fate(Blackbeard).

 

[Reborn]

Me while going through this what was suppose to be chapter discussion thread

Post automatically merged: Feb 20, 2020

Haven't read the chapter yet and don't plan to until better translations come out. I refuse to read it in poor quality.

But I'm commenting because I couldn't help but notice people bringing up prophecies, destiny and even comparing this to Naruto.....??? if you're claiming that this is the same or that Oda is saying that Luffy is a chosen one, then you are very confused.

The reason people complained about Naruto back then wasn't because it had themes of destiny and prophecy. It was because it set up the thematic idea of fighting against those concepts only to reveal the that protagonist was fulfilling a destiny the entire time. It contradicted itself. That was the problem. Or atleast thats how things are perceived. In Naruto, Naruto was always destined for greatness. Such is not the same for Luffy.

Oden isn't even claiming that Luffy specifically is the chosen one. Oden, Roger, and people like them who are waiting for the Dawn just believe that someone will come along. It could literally be anyone. Which is no different than saying that someone will go to Walmart today. Or that someone will go to McDonalds and order a Big Mac :rolleyes:. It's such a general statement that calling it "destiny" when someone actually shows up is fucking silly. It was bound to happen anyway.

And thats the difference between the two series. They're making two completely different comments on Destiny. Blackbeard and the Blackbeard Pirates are the only ones who genuinely believe that fate has decided everything already. That destiny is predetermined. But Luffy represents the opposite. And this is clearly represented for us as one of the themes of Luffy vs Katakuri. At the start of the fight it's asked "Who decides the Future?" at the end of the fight we have the answer. Luffy the Man of Action succeeds over the man who can merely see the Future. As Bege points out for us "Everyone has the power to change the Future". He who takes action is the one who decides the future. And so Luffy, by constantly taking action, is actively creating his destiny. He wasn't born to be Pirate King. But by constantly taking action he's actively turning himself into the only man who could be Pirate King. He wasn't chosen by fate. He chose himself. And through sheer force of will he continues to turn himself into the man he wants to be. Thats the difference between what Blackbeard believes and Luffy represents and what One Piece is ultimately saying about fate & destiny.

One the otherhand, in the eyes of many readers, Naruto was seemingly trying to make a comment of fighting destiny and failed. Thats where the criticism came from.

Whereas One Piece is ultimately leading to a clash of self-made destiny(Luffy) VS predetermined fate(Blackbeard).

This is one hell of a good post. Nothing less expected from Mr. Redex:cheers:

 

[Shura]

Haven't read the chapter yet and don't plan to until better translations come out. I refuse to read it in poor quality.

But I'm commenting because I couldn't help but notice people bringing up prophecies, destiny and even comparing this to Naruto.....??? if you're claiming that this is the same or that Oda is saying that Luffy is a chosen one, then you are very confused.

The reason people complained about Naruto back then wasn't because it had themes of destiny and prophecy. It was because it set up the thematic idea of fighting against those concepts only to reveal the that protagonist was fulfilling a destiny the entire time. It contradicted itself. That was the problem. Or atleast thats how things are perceived. In Naruto, Naruto was always destined for greatness. Such is not the same for Luffy.

Oden isn't even claiming that Luffy specifically is the chosen one. Oden, Roger, and people like them who are waiting for the Dawn just believe that someone will come along. It could literally be anyone. Which is no different than saying that someone will go to Walmart today. Or that someone will go to McDonalds and order a Big Mac :rolleyes:. It's such a general statement that calling it "destiny" when someone actually shows up is fucking silly. It was bound to happen anyway.

And thats the difference between the two series. They're making two completely different comments on Destiny. Blackbeard and the Blackbeard Pirates are the only ones who genuinely believe that fate has decided everything already. That destiny is predetermined. But Luffy represents the opposite. And this is clearly represented for us as one of the themes of Luffy vs Katakuri. At the start of the fight it's asked "Who decides the Future?" at the end of the fight we have the answer. Luffy the Man of Action succeeds over the man who can merely see the Future. As Bege points out for us "Everyone has the power to change the Future". He who takes action is the one who decides the future. And so Luffy, by constantly taking action, is actively creating his destiny. He wasn't born to be Pirate King. But by constantly taking action he's actively turning himself into the only man who could be Pirate King. He wasn't chosen by fate. He chose himself. And through sheer force of will he continues to turn himself into the man he wants to be. Thats the difference between what Blackbeard believes and Luffy represents and what One Piece is ultimately saying about fate & destiny.

One the otherhand, in the eyes of many readers, Naruto was seemingly trying to make a comment of fighting destiny and failed. Thats where the criticism came from.

Whereas One Piece is ultimately leading to a clash of self-made destiny(Luffy) VS predetermined fate(Blackbeard).

I tried to say this in the below quote....but you put it in a way better way......

Okay let me say this....

Prophecy/Reincarnation thing is not new to shonen manga.....but OP has given completely different treatment to this thing....lets see

In case of Naruto, fourth hokage sealed nine tails in Naruto because of the prophecy and destiny while Dragon didn't give a shit about Luffy......

It is Luffy and Ace wanted to become pirate while Garp wanted them to become Marines.....

Luffy ate "gomu gomu no mi" accidentally...and became rubber.....

He gives the vibes of Roger according to many people even though Ace being the son of Roger......

WB preparing Ace to become next PK but he died in between because of BB......

Luffy decided to take Zoro as a comrade because he saved that little girl not because of some fate....

Most of the time fate offered him choices....
examples
1) like save Nami from Arlong or look for another Navigator
2) EL is said to be impenetrable fortress.....it is difficult to invade.....people who opposed WG are "fated" to die...Luffy and co went against fate and they were rewarded....
3) Same with ID/WCI.....

Remember Wano started because Luffy intercepted the phone call before PH....

At Saboady Luffy succumbed to fate and he experienced heavy loss....at MF, he couldn't go against the fate and save Ace....

So while it can be said that the fate guided Luffy to where he is , it is he who made "choices" and got rewarded/paid price.....

I will add more if I can think of more content....

 

[VersusPhD]

Decent chapter. Though, I'm glad that the flashback is over. Onward to chaos and total destruction.

 

[Sadistic Senpai]

Who was this chapter talking about?

I'm hoping it's Joyboy, The ORIGINAL Joyboy. Not Luffy

I have talked about it in spoiler thread that Oden talked about "this individual will traverse through 800 years of time"

So, it sounds like it's the use of "time time DF" back in time. And Maybe this is the biggest reason for Toki's DF introduction more than anything. It's to allow us to witness Joyboy in our present time.

Because you see, Oda could have made the same story with Oden and everything turning out the same WITHOUT the time jump DF. But I think he made it in preperation for the more important individual coming by this DF, Joyboy himself.

And MY HOPE with that is, Oda can use it to write the story in a way that it will be "challenging destinty" instead of "achieving destiny" which is FAAAAR MORE AWESOME, and sounds like the underdog.

Meaning, Imagine Joyboy at his time, he had a Seer (like Madam Sharly), and their war with the "powerful enemy" that Oden talked about who was the reason for Wano to close its border. Imagine if the seer told him that no matter what you do, you will lose. And the ONLY TIMELINE that can allow you to have a shot and a chance to beat this destined FAILURE is after 800 years ago. As it will be the ONLY timeline, where every corner stone (Luffy as PK, Shirahoshi awakened, Pluton, Uranos, maybe Vivi, maybe other shit). Every corner stone that can help your goal will be present and positioned in a way that allows you to "have a chance"

So, basically, it's a struggle to defeat "their destined loss" from WG/Imu/Whoever that powerful enemy Oden mentioned. Cause that's how terrifying the enemy is, they beat you 100% sure in every timeline. This is your ONLY CHANCE, and it's a SMALL ONE. so you better make the 1% chance be your win

 

[Erkan12]

Luffy let Zoro to finish Morgan after beating Morgan, because he had to save Coby's ass, not because he needed Zoro to beat Morgan. When they needed Zoro, Zoro fucked up against Buggy and escaped. Almost the same against Lucci, he get stomped without even cutting him once.

If Zoro fans are saying that Luffy will let Zoro to cut Kaido, and Zoro will only do it because of Luffy, then that's possible. They also took down PH Dragon in a similar way, although Luffy was holding back a lot against it by not even using G3. It could be something like Law's gamma knife trick perhaps. Only to weaken him then losing to Kaido later and Luffy saving them in the end, it's possible.

But usually Oda doesn't do that, he uses Zoro and Sanji to defeat weaker opponents, and so they can defend the crew just in case something happens to Luffy. Against Kuma, Zoro and Sanji tried though they failed the same.

If Zoro fights against Kaido, and even cuts him then he will get stomped very hard in return which can leave the crew defenseless with Sanji alone. Since that's both Zoro's + Sanji's job.

We know Law, Drake and Eustass are there for a reason, its better to waste these guys against Kaido instead of Zoro or Sanji. There must be people who can defend the crew since Luffy will be in no condition to.

 

[nik87]

Luffy let Zoro to finish Morgan after beating Morgan, because he had to save Coby's ass, not they needed Zoro. When they needed Zoro, Zoro fucked up against Buggy and escaped. Almost the same against Lucci, he get stomped without even cutting him once.

If Zoro fans are saying that Luffy will let Zoro to cut Kaido, and Zoro will only do it because of Luffy, then that's possible. They also took down PH Dragon in a similar way, although Luffy was holding back a lot against it by not even using G3. It could be something like Law's gamma knife trick perhaps. Only to weaken him then losing to Kaido later and Luffy saving them in the end, it's possible.

But usually Oda doesn't do that, he uses Zoro and Sanji to defeat weaker opponents, and so they can defend the crew just in case something happens to Luffy. Against Kuma, Zoro and Sanji tried though they failed the same.

If Zoro fights against Kaido, and even cuts him then he will get stomped very hard in return which can leave the crew defenseless with Sanji alone. Since that's both Zoro's + Sanji's job.

We know Law, Drake and Eustass are there for a reason, its better to waste these guys against Kaido instead of Zoro or Sanji. There must be people who can defend the crew since Luffy will be in no condition to.

Luffy will let Zoro cut Kaido... The salt will be so tasty, man this is incredible.

 

[Redx]

I tried to say this in the below quote....but you put it in a way better way......

You've got the right idea but you do miss a lot of other points.

Essentially, Luffy is presented with options and he makes the most of what he is given. This is most clearly shown with the Gomu Gomu No Mi. From how he acquired it to how he uses it. He got it completely by accident and worse than that it was practically useless. He used to lose 100 fights per day to his brothers. An it took him nearly 10 years just to learn how to throw a punch properly with his fruit.

But look at it now. Luffy has the most named moves out of any other character in the series for a reason and just goes to show how much effort he actually put into mastering his ability. Ace used to actually think Luffy's ability just plain wasn't capable of combat. Yet Luffy took that seemingly useless power and turned it into a monstrous fighting force.

Thats just one small example but I think you get the point. Sitting here listing every way the narrative emphasizes Luffy's effort could take all day.

 

[Lion of Olympus]

Yata!!! Loden is finally dead!! Now we can actually get back to One piece

 

[Erkan12]

Haven't read the chapter yet and don't plan to until better translations come out. I refuse to read it in poor quality.

But I'm commenting because I couldn't help but notice people bringing up prophecies, destiny and even comparing this to Naruto.....??? if you're claiming that this is the same or that Oda is saying that Luffy is a chosen one, then you are very confused.

The reason people complained about Naruto back then wasn't because it had themes of destiny and prophecy. It was because it set up the thematic idea of fighting against those concepts only to reveal the that protagonist was fulfilling a destiny the entire time. It contradicted itself. That was the problem. Or atleast thats how things are perceived. In Naruto, Naruto was always destined for greatness. Such is not the same for Luffy.

Oden isn't even claiming that Luffy specifically is the chosen one. Oden, Roger, and people like them who are waiting for the Dawn just believe that someone will come along. It could literally be anyone. Which is no different than saying that someone will go to Walmart today. Or that someone will go to McDonalds and order a Big Mac :rolleyes:. It's such a general statement that calling it "destiny" when someone actually shows up is fucking silly. It was bound to happen anyway.

And thats the difference between the two series. They're making two completely different comments on Destiny. Blackbeard and the Blackbeard Pirates are the only ones who genuinely believe that fate has decided everything already. That destiny is predetermined. But Luffy represents the opposite. And this is clearly represented for us as one of the themes of Luffy vs Katakuri. At the start of the fight it's asked "Who decides the Future?" at the end of the fight we have the answer. Luffy the Man of Action succeeds over the man who can merely see the Future. As Bege points out for us "Everyone has the power to change the Future". He who takes action is the one who decides the future. And so Luffy, by constantly taking action, is actively creating his destiny. He wasn't born to be Pirate King. But by constantly taking action he's actively turning himself into the only man who could be Pirate King. He wasn't chosen by fate. He chose himself. And through sheer force of will he continues to turn himself into the man he wants to be. Thats the difference between what Blackbeard believes and Luffy represents and what One Piece is ultimately saying about fate & destiny.

One the otherhand, in the eyes of many readers, Naruto was seemingly trying to make a comment of fighting destiny and failed. Thats where the criticism came from.

Whereas One Piece is ultimately leading to a clash of self-made destiny(Luffy) VS predetermined fate(Blackbeard).

You should read the chapter. Then you will understand why people say that especially after this chapter.

 

[Redx]

You should read the chapter. Then you will understand why people say that especially after this chapter.

Seen the spoilers. Doesn't change anything I said. They're still wrong.

Characters have been saying "someone will come along" for years now.

The themes of the story haven't changed nor are they contradicted by anything Oden says.

 

[Lion of Olympus]

Im split on Zoro cutting Kaido, but if he does then that is just terrible writing by Oda

 

[Erkan12]

Seen the spoilers. Doesn't change anything.

Oden specifically says 20 years after, how can he know or someone can know that if Luffy is creating his own destiny, in the end, they already seen the future somehow and they know Luffy is the chosen one.

I already find weird that Toki send them exactly 20 years later as if they knew they will meet with Luffy, but instead of Toki, Oden has seen the future.

 

[comrade]

I wonder what kind of shit did Oden see in his journey thou that made him believe novone in this current time would be able to defeat Kaido, I mean not even Whitebeard/Linlin/Garp/Sengoku/Rayleigh/Gaban??

He referred to no one in Wano being able to do so, since Wano is an isolated country. Obviously, Whitebeard was stronger than Kaido.

 

[Albino 👑]

What if franky is joy boi

He seems destined to help the pirate king and seemed to subconsciously know joining roger was to soon. Hes greatness cant be stopped

 

[Redx]

Oden specifically says 20 years after, how can he know or someone can know that if Luffy is creating his own destiny,

Again, I know what he said.

I have my own post I want to make about that little tidbit when better scans come out.

I'll save it for then.

 

[nik87]

Im split on Zoro cutting Kaido, but if he does then that is just terrible writing by Oda

Can I have more of that terrible writing, please?

 

[True God Moe]

"Luffy will solo Kaido" "Zoro won't cut Kaido"

Luffy will. If he can't beat Yonko on his own. He is failure as captain. Why Zoro need to beat Kaido when same man got dusted by nerfer and fox? Oda doesn't power-scale to BS especially for subordinate to fight Luffy's battles. Zoro not beating Kaido, let alone hurting him in the arc.

If there is team up, it be Kidd and Law with Luffy to face Kaido the most who he has connections too .

 

[Shadow Asgard]

Oden pays homage to the crew. Similarities with Luffy. Both are naive and driven by a strong love of adventure, have the King's haki, have to do with Bb and have recruited Nine elements. With Zoro. Both are swordsmen, are able to use the two-sword style and face a dragon. With Sanji. Both are noble, cooks and who leave their families behind. With Robin. Both are able to read the PCs. With Franky. Both were in charge of a gang of offenders. With Chopper. Both were frowned upon. With Nami. They both write a diary. With Jinbe. Both protect their kingdom. I haven't found any similarities with Brook and Usop yet, but I'm sure there are. As for the Nine, they seem to be the caricatured version of Luffy's crew. Dog-storm - Zoro Cat-viper - Sanji Kawamatsu - Jimbe Ashura - Franky Denjiro - Robin Kinemon - Brook Kiku - Nami Kanjuro - Chopper Raizo - Usop

 

[Ena]

Im split on Zoro cutting Kaido, but if he does then that is just terrible writing by Oda