Questions & Mysteries Did Zoro lose against Enel
- Thread starter Tai long
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Well Luffy ran a gauntlet too, Apoo, P1 and Ulti, all the guys he had to fight to get on the rooftop and on that rooftop he fought Kaido AND Big Mom who were targeting him the most so I guess it shouldn't count either. Author's words will say that Luffy won vs Kaido 1v1 so we should trust author's words
I see, i was confused bcs i was thinking he was talking Luffy and Kuina in that scene.
Since you are talking about Zoro "i will never lose" scene. This is my comment about that promise.
No Nik i dont ignore. I am just telling you that even if he is tired and damaged it still counts as a defeat.
I am telling you that if we think like you said then Zoro didnt defeat King but its not like you said.
There is no gaunlet nonsense thats why i am saying Zoro lost to Enel and thats why i am trying to tell you that Zoro did defeat King.
Enel defeated Zoro alone while fighting Wiper and others. That scene is way more different than Oars and Pacifista scene but i will give it an explanation as you say.
With Oars and Pacifista there was a teamwork. Enel shocked Zoro and made him kneel with his feet. Its not the same.
What you are saying doesnt make sense because if we follow your logic most fights doesnt make sense tto begin with.
Kaido is damaged before fighting Luffy, King is damaged before fighting Zoro, Queen is damaged before fighting Sanji etc.
But it doesnt take it from their victories. They still overcom them and defeat them. And Enel defeated Zoro in that fight.
Its not even a cheap shot like Kizaru or Yeti brothers both of them knew that they are fighting eachother in that scene.
A loss is a loss if its not cheap shot its a loss. I mean with your logic i can claim that Kaido didnt beat Luffy in chapter 1013 because Luffy is damaged before him. Gaunlet thing is just nonsense at this point.
If its not possible King to damaged why he didnt just stay in his flame form or why is he scared of Zoro's attacks. Because he isnt invicible he is just Super durable like i am saying. He is damaged before his fight with Zoro too i even showed you the panels. Why are you denying?
People will say that Kaido lost to Luffy/Zoro after his defeat. Doesnt matter how much he fought he is still losing when he falls.
Same thing with King same with Zoro. Stop coping Nik coping isnt gonna help you. Zoro lost to Enel at that time but thats it.
Since you are talking about Zoro "i will never lose" scene. This is my comment about that promise.
No Nik i dont ignore. I am just telling you that even if he is tired and damaged it still counts as a defeat.
I am telling you that if we think like you said then Zoro didnt defeat King but its not like you said.
There is no gaunlet nonsense thats why i am saying Zoro lost to Enel and thats why i am trying to tell you that Zoro did defeat King.
Enel defeated Zoro alone while fighting Wiper and others. That scene is way more different than Oars and Pacifista scene but i will give it an explanation as you say.
With Oars and Pacifista there was a teamwork. Enel shocked Zoro and made him kneel with his feet. Its not the same.
What you are saying doesnt make sense because if we follow your logic most fights doesnt make sense tto begin with.
Kaido is damaged before fighting Luffy, King is damaged before fighting Zoro, Queen is damaged before fighting Sanji etc.
But it doesnt take it from their victories. They still overcom them and defeat them. And Enel defeated Zoro in that fight.
Its not even a cheap shot like Kizaru or Yeti brothers both of them knew that they are fighting eachother in that scene.
A loss is a loss if its not cheap shot its a loss. I mean with your logic i can claim that Kaido didnt beat Luffy in chapter 1013 because Luffy is damaged before him. Gaunlet thing is just nonsense at this point.
If its not possible King to damaged why he didnt just stay in his flame form or why is he scared of Zoro's attacks. Because he isnt invicible he is just Super durable like i am saying. He is damaged before his fight with Zoro too i even showed you the panels. Why are you denying?
People will say that Kaido lost to Luffy/Zoro after his defeat. Doesnt matter how much he fought he is still losing when he falls.
Same thing with King same with Zoro. Stop coping Nik coping isnt gonna help you. Zoro lost to Enel at that time but thats it.
Yes the promise is broken... also the way people interpret that scene where he makes the promise not to lose again is for swordsman is baseless.
The way people interpret that scene to mean it only applies to swordsman is ridiculous. Its a fuck up by Oda.
Zoro was used as a hype tool as Sanji is being used right now after time skip to hype up the big bad and get rekt by them.
Zoro-Enel and many other cases before timeskip
Sanji-Mingo and many other cases after timeskip
Oda clearly forgot he had Zoro make that promise or he just don't care.
Also Oda definitions of Victory and Defeat are dumb as fuck.
The bad guy loses once and its a official lose and the good guy gets beat 5-7 times literary dies and comes back to life in most of these loses and finally wins once after the bad guy having been debuffed and exhausted and tired from fighting not only the MC but many others and that's the end of it.
Its like the MC gets 10 life lines with so much help and the bad guy has to play on Super hard mode with just 1 life and many other handicaps. (Damm I sound like Garou from One Punch Man)
Big Mom losing to Law and Midd He literary calls THAT a official victory through a narrative text bubble.... Ridiculous....
Also how he gives contradicting and conflicting titles to certain people. Like WSC or WSM, or WSS all of these are contradictory because most of these people who hold these titles use swords so wouldn't the title of WSS be the best of them.....
Its a shit show really Oda doesn't know what his doing and a lot of his power scaling and powerful characters are a mess in terms of making sense.
The way people interpret that scene to mean it only applies to swordsman is ridiculous. Its a fuck up by Oda.
Zoro was used as a hype tool as Sanji is being used right now after time skip to hype up the big bad and get rekt by them.
Zoro-Enel and many other cases before timeskip
Sanji-Mingo and many other cases after timeskip
Oda clearly forgot he had Zoro make that promise or he just don't care.
Also Oda definitions of Victory and Defeat are dumb as fuck.
The bad guy loses once and its a official lose and the good guy gets beat 5-7 times literary dies and comes back to life in most of these loses and finally wins once after the bad guy having been debuffed and exhausted and tired from fighting not only the MC but many others and that's the end of it.
Its like the MC gets 10 life lines with so much help and the bad guy has to play on Super hard mode with just 1 life and many other handicaps. (Damm I sound like Garou from One Punch Man)
Big Mom losing to Law and Midd He literary calls THAT a official victory through a narrative text bubble.... Ridiculous....
Also how he gives contradicting and conflicting titles to certain people. Like WSC or WSM, or WSS all of these are contradictory because most of these people who hold these titles use swords so wouldn't the title of WSS be the best of them.....
Its a shit show really Oda doesn't know what his doing and a lot of his power scaling and powerful characters are a mess in terms of making sense.
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It counts as defeat but doesnt break the promise of Zoro never losing again.
Because gauntlet doesnt count towards that.
I told you King doesnt help you since he is invulnerable all the way until he went speed mode against Zoro.
There is a gauntlet lol - Braham, Ohm, challenge, Nola, Wyper... You are not paying attention.
Doesnt matter if it is a teamwork or not. Gauntlet is a gauntlet, the more you fight the weaker you become.
And Zoro had tons of fights behind him before he arrived at Enel. Thus, his promise isnt broken by Enel.
You cant debunk my arguments with papercuts and clashes. I am talking about proper fights.
Yes, they knew they fought each other and Zoro just came out of a gauntlet, that doesnt change.
Defeat after a gauntlet doesnt break Zoro's promise. Neither do cheap shots or rooftop defeat.
The one who damaged Luffy before 1013 is Kaido himself so you cant claim such nonsense.
Because PIS, because King cant be defeated in flame mode, that's why plot pushed him into a defeatable state.
It is not possible for him to be damaged by Oni Giri and Marco's attack because Shishi Sonson cannot damage him.
I told you those panels are inconsistency proven by Shishi Sonson which is far stronger than those attacks.
People can say whatever they want, Kaido's 1vs1 king isnt debunked just like Zoro's promise isnt broken because such defeats dont break/debunk promises/1vs1 claims. I already explained King to you several times but you just dont get it...
Enel didnt break Zoro's promise, it has been confirmed. Gauntlets simply dont count towards it.
Because gauntlet doesnt count towards that.
I told you King doesnt help you since he is invulnerable all the way until he went speed mode against Zoro.
There is a gauntlet lol - Braham, Ohm, challenge, Nola, Wyper... You are not paying attention.
Doesnt matter if it is a teamwork or not. Gauntlet is a gauntlet, the more you fight the weaker you become.
And Zoro had tons of fights behind him before he arrived at Enel. Thus, his promise isnt broken by Enel.
You cant debunk my arguments with papercuts and clashes. I am talking about proper fights.
Yes, they knew they fought each other and Zoro just came out of a gauntlet, that doesnt change.
Defeat after a gauntlet doesnt break Zoro's promise. Neither do cheap shots or rooftop defeat.
The one who damaged Luffy before 1013 is Kaido himself so you cant claim such nonsense.
Because PIS, because King cant be defeated in flame mode, that's why plot pushed him into a defeatable state.
It is not possible for him to be damaged by Oni Giri and Marco's attack because Shishi Sonson cannot damage him.
I told you those panels are inconsistency proven by Shishi Sonson which is far stronger than those attacks.
People can say whatever they want, Kaido's 1vs1 king isnt debunked just like Zoro's promise isnt broken because such defeats dont break/debunk promises/1vs1 claims. I already explained King to you several times but you just dont get it...
Enel didnt break Zoro's promise, it has been confirmed. Gauntlets simply dont count towards it.
Because Oda considers this a loss to Big Mom and what you've mentioned regarding all the gauntlets Zoro had to fight through at Sky Island Big Mom had to do worse with more handicaps at Wano.
He officially recognizes her lose to both of them who had to so much luck and bullshit and all gauntlets BM had to go through and yet Oda calls That a loss.
He officially recognizes her lose to both of them who had to so much luck and bullshit and all gauntlets BM had to go through and yet Oda calls That a loss.
Zoro has one goal - become strongest swordsman.
The context of Zoro vs Mihawk was Zoro challenged Mihawk for a duel and lost.
The declaration of Zoro which followed has to be read in the above context because it was the result of Zoro realising how weak he is to beat World's Strongest Swordsman.
Zoro did lose to Enel. Infact, Enel legit was too strong for an arc at that point of story. Luffy literally got plot advantage otherwise Enel would have whopped his ass too just like how croc did before blood came into picture *cough* plot armor
However, reading the comments here I think people are being dishonest.
Zoro losing to arlong has no basis because he was heavily injured.
Zoro did give up against kuma but he was not only exhausted but also ended up taking all the pain of Luffy and challenge of Kuma. That's a massive Win
Zoro vs lucci was a clash and we all know clash are not to be taken as something concrete.
Everyone lost to Kizaru.
But, Zoro's promise remain intact because he actually never lost in a duel. He never faced defeat in a fight that involves him surpassing his opponents to become stronger swordsman.
That's why Oda always highlight this specifically when Zoro is fighting a proper duel
The context of Zoro vs Mihawk was Zoro challenged Mihawk for a duel and lost.
The declaration of Zoro which followed has to be read in the above context because it was the result of Zoro realising how weak he is to beat World's Strongest Swordsman.
Zoro did lose to Enel. Infact, Enel legit was too strong for an arc at that point of story. Luffy literally got plot advantage otherwise Enel would have whopped his ass too just like how croc did before blood came into picture *cough* plot armor
However, reading the comments here I think people are being dishonest.
Zoro losing to arlong has no basis because he was heavily injured.
Zoro did give up against kuma but he was not only exhausted but also ended up taking all the pain of Luffy and challenge of Kuma. That's a massive Win
Zoro vs lucci was a clash and we all know clash are not to be taken as something concrete.
Everyone lost to Kizaru.
But, Zoro's promise remain intact because he actually never lost in a duel. He never faced defeat in a fight that involves him surpassing his opponents to become stronger swordsman.
That's why Oda always highlight this specifically when Zoro is fighting a proper duel
Zoro too wasn't in that bad of a shape after all those gauntlets he went through at sky island. Big Mom had it much harder and more handicaps.
Also my point is not the fact that Zoro lost or won. Its that Oda sucks at writing. He can literally have the MC defeated and he won't consider that a lose even if it is clear because Oda's mentality. His definitions of victory and defeat are dumb. His execution of it in the story is even dumber.
Also my point is not the fact that Zoro lost or won. Its that Oda sucks at writing. He can literally have the MC defeated and he won't consider that a lose even if it is clear because Oda's mentality. His definitions of victory and defeat are dumb. His execution of it in the story is even dumber.