Character Discussion Zoro has the responsibilities of a vice captain

[comrade]

Franky taking initiative, to the point that he'll refuse to abandon them no matter what Luffy tells him. And then his speech convined Luffy to not go along with Law's plan. He's advising Luffy on their course of action

But that was Franky speaking out of emotion. That was no decision. He was pleading to Luffy. It's different from Zoro giving Luffy an ultimatum and saying he will leave the crew if he takes Usopp back without latter apologizing, while the others were crying and Sanji was agreeing.

Yes, that was a powerful moment, but I don't see how that means Zoro has the responsibilities of a Vice Captain.

Because it is the job of the vice captain to take the captains place when the captain is unable to. And he did.

But the only moment that fit that was the Thriller Bark example, and that was mainly him telling the Strawhats to stay out of his fight

Yes. How many times to you see the other strawhats telling their Nakama to stay back and let themselves do the job? Zoro does that often. Telling the other to stay back while he will go forward.

 

[Finalbeta]

Sanji-Bros are jerking off to the fact Zoro is not an "official" vice captain, since the straw hat pirates do not have such a position. Yet, Zoro has the responsibilities of a vice captain. Call it vice captain or right hand man, but he stands above Sanji in that regard. The Manga is testament to it.

- In Luffy's absence, Zoro takes the role of the vice captain. Sanji only commands in both Luffy's and Zoro's absence.

- He is the one stepping forward first when it comes to sacrificing himself for the captain, as it was the case at Thriller Bark, where he sacrificed his dream to save Luffy. First, ordering everyone to stay back as he is the one to take on Kuma

Spoiler

- Then deciding to give his life for Luffy. Sanji stepped forward only after Zoro. And even then, Zoro was the one to take responsibility, while putting Sanji to rest.

- When Luffy made his crew escape from Crocodile in Alabasta to take him on himself, while telling his crew to take care of Vivi, the focus immediately shifted to Zoro, with him being the one to take command and Sanji simply agreeing:

Spoiler

- Even in Luffy's presence, Zoro is the one taking responsibility and exercises his authority. That was evident when Luffy, in Water 7 was to immediately forgive Usopp but Zoro was the one to forbid Luffy from doing it, saying that either Luffy teaches his crew proper respect, or he himself is the one to leave next. The moment where Sanji himself obediently agreed with Zoro, even though Zoro told Nami (who Sanji is simping for) to shut up. A powerful moment indeed.

Spoiler

When Luffy shows weakness, it is Zoro who reminds him to stay strong and to endure it, for he is the captain.

Spoiler

In Wano, Zoro was also seen taking command in Luffy's absence, including commanding Sanji:

Spoiler

Especially the points of Zoro scolding Luffy and telling him what to do and to stay strong to be a worthy captain, is not just right hand man material but straight out vice captain responsibilities. Neither Marco nor King would tell their captains what to do. Zoro does.

@HA001 @nik87 @Light D Lamperouge @Fenaker @ConquistadoR @Cinera @Veku @MonsterKaido @Chrono @Chaves @Jiihad @TheAncientCenturion @Gol D. Roger @Den_Den_Mushi @Sentinel @Finalbeta @Tyki_Mikk etc.

Zoro has been a guide to the captain and the most supportative SH under the captain, that is really quite telling.

 

[Peenix]

But that was Franky speaking out of emotion. That was no decision. He was pleading to Luffy. It's different from Zoro giving Luffy an ultimatum and saying he will leave the crew if he takes Usopp back without latter apologizing, while the others were crying and Sanji was agreeing.

I don't see how Franky showing emotion changes anything. Franky's just a more outwardly emotional character than Zoro, so he showed more emotion in that instance.
Granted the scene with Zoro had more weight behind it due to the subject matter, but the idea of them advising Luffy on their course of action is the same in both instances

Because it is the job of the vice captain to take the captains place when the captain is unable to. And he did.

But all the Strawhats would sacrifice themselves for Luffy

Yes. How many times to you see the other strawhats telling their Nakama to stay back and let themselves do the job?

Pretty often. Sanji even gave a whole speech about that in Enies Lobby

Spoiler

 

[comrade]

But all the Strawhats would sacrifice themselves for Luffy

Sure. But Zoro is the one to do it, he takes the responsibility. It was Zoro who took Luffy's damage, no one else.

Post automatically merged: Apr 3, 2022

@Peenix I think you are underestimating Zoro's role here. Obviously, all strawhats have a voice and can give constructive feedback if the situation demands it, but if we look at it more holistically, if we look at the grander scheme, Zoro's role is just more impactful. Hence he is the one to actually take Luffy's place when needed, not just in theory but in practice, while also scolding him and telling him what his responsibilities as a captain are.

That was the point of the thread. Not, that the other strawhats cannot give voice, but that Zoro takes the role of the man to take Luffy's role if needed.

 

[Julius]

You aren't necessarily wrong, but you're literally ignoring that Sanji also did something "vice-captain like" on all of these moments, scenes and arcs you presented, while one of them isn't a big deal, like Zoro giving Toko to Sanji because he wanted to enter a fight due to Orochi being such a pain in the ass, that could easily happen with Sanji as well (as im sure it already did), especially when Sanji told Zoro to "cool his head" and ended up being attacked by Drake, giving Toko to Usopp so she wont be in danger, something that could happen between almost any Strawhat

You actually made pretty clear how Zoro depends on Sanji's agreement and support to do things, even if Nami (tHE 3rD mein cHarAcTEr) isn't agreeing with them

But the biggest deal here is: Zoro and Sanji do the same things in different ways, they don't depend on each others orders or agreements, thats the main reason they bicker so much, they do whatever suits their minds, but it doesn't mean they can't agree with each other and work together aiming a greater good.

In Alabasta for example, we had the Mr.Prince in action, he doesn't depends on anyone to do his thing, just like Zoro, unless Luffy gives a clear order for them to follow.

Sanji was the one who supported Usopp the most, through and through, even if he 100% agreed with Zoro, he was the one who kicked Luffy and told him to "Watch his mouth" when he was going to tell Usopp to simply leave the crew forever, Luffy basically apologized to Sanji.

Spoiler

He was the one who saved Usopp from dying and told him that there was still hope to save Robin, and that Usopp himself was the one who could make a difference. Thats a bigger support to the crew than simply saying "Hey dude, leave, you don't respect the captain", especially when you consider the fact that Usopp was right about the Going Merry being such special "being", to the point it saved them by the end of EL.

Spoiler

Well, i don't need to mention the Sea Train scenes as it speaks for itself. He even got Usopp "back" here, as Sogeking, and met Franky more properly.

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Against Kuma, Sanji didn't obey Zoro on staying back, most likely the opposite, we could even say he prevented Zoro from getting hit by Kuma. Thats the point of wings, they need to support each other, the crew depends on that behaviour.

Spoiler

The fact that Zoro didn't want to let Sanji do it was mainly focused on Zoro's ambitions:

"If i can't protect my captain, then my ambition means nothing..."

Thats a standard Zoro created for himself and tied it to his ambition.

Im almost sure we have more of Sanji telling Luffy what to do and what not to do more than we have Zoro doing it. But what stands up the most is how Luffy actually doesn't care about that depending the circumstances, if he trully wants something, then he wont give up on it. Thats what he did when he was about to lose Sanji on the crew.

During Sanji vs Luffy drama in WCI, when Sanji goes to feed Luffy and starts giving the reasons he can't come back to the crew, he says the same thing he agreed with Zoro in Water 7 during "Luffy vs Usopp" drama. Meaning one of these reasons was that he disrespected the captain, so he couldn't come back to the crewby any means.

Then Luffy's answer was to attack Sanji, if Sanji didn't simply agreed to go back to the crew as Luffy wanted so much, they would probably just have fought each other for real. Even if he wanted to leave WCI without Sanji, it would be impossible, since it was so hard even with Sanji's massive assistance and many others.

The fact that Luffy simply let Usopp leave, taking Zoro and Sanji's advices into consideration, but didn't even considered the possibility of letting Sanji go among a such caotic situation, but dying right there waiting for him to come back, and also didn't gave a shit about the "don't disrespect the captain" rule speaks for itself how Sanji stands out in the crew and for Luffy.

Spoiler

 

[comrade]

@Vinsmoke D. Zolo good points. Though I disagree with the first one. Sanji kicked Luffy out of anger, fearing the loss of a nakama. Zoro however behaved purely reasonable and taught Luffy what it means to be a captain. Even Sanji agreed with that one. Same as Zoro displaying strength when Luffy displays weakness, telling Luffy that it is his responsibility to be strong. He is not driven by emotion, but by reason.

And Zoro effectively taking Luffy's place and sacrificing his life, is yet another important key factor. Yes, Sanji also stepped forward after Zoro did the first step, but Zoro was the first to step forward, which is the job of a right hand man, just as Zoro was the one who took all of Luffy's damage and pain, which also goes to show that Zoro, in the end, is the one to take Luffy's place.

That goes beyond simply showing proaction in certain situations.

 

[zenox]

zoro was also said to act like a vice captain in his vivre card

 

[BillSlipton]

Zoro was taking the lead and speaking on Luffy's behalf while Sanji was being next to him, either agreeing or simply being silent. No one is denying that Sanji is good at taking the lead or doing good decisions. But he usually does this in Zoro's absence. You don't see Sanji taking the lead with Zoro next to him.

Nah but I did see that when the crew didn't trust zoros words nor take them half as serious until sanji himself spoke up in agreement.

Wings

Post automatically merged: Apr 3, 2022

Yes and his extensive history of leading Zoro

Spoiler

Lame as fuck.

Let's ignore arlong Park. Skypiea. Ennies lobby etc

Cope😭

Post automatically merged: Apr 3, 2022

@Vinsmoke D. Zolo good points. Though I disagree with the first one. Sanji kicked Luffy out of anger, fearing the loss of a nakama. Zoro however behaved purely reasonable and taught Luffy what it means to be a captain. Even Sanji agreed with that one. Same as Zoro displaying strength when Luffy displays weakness, telling Luffy that it is his responsibility to be strong. He is not driven by emotion, but by reason.

And Zoro effectively taking Luffy's place and sacrificing his life, is yet another important key factor. Yes, Sanji also stepped forward after Zoro did the first step, but Zoro was the first to step forward, which is the job of a right hand man, just as Zoro was the one who took all of Luffy's damage and pain, which also goes to show that Zoro, in the end, is the one to take Luffy's place.

That goes beyond simply showing proaction in certain situations.

Sanji didn't kick out of anger. Thats a nice twisting of the events to fit your narrative.

Yes sanji was emotionally charged. No that's not why he kicked him. Literally read what sanji says to know why he kicked him. Buffoon

 

[Julius]

@Vinsmoke D. Zolo good points. Though I disagree with the first one. Sanji kicked Luffy out of anger, fearing the loss of a nakama. Zoro however behaved purely reasonable and taught Luffy what it means to be a captain. Even Sanji agreed with that one. Same as Zoro displaying strength when Luffy displays weakness, telling Luffy that it is his responsibility to be strong. He is not driven by emotion, but by reason.

And Zoro effectively taking Luffy's place and sacrificing his life, is yet another important key factor. Yes, Sanji also stepped forward after Zoro did the first step, but Zoro was the first to step forward, which is the job of a right hand man, just as Zoro was the one who took all of Luffy's damage and pain, which also goes to show that Zoro, in the end, is the one to take Luffy's place.

That goes beyond simply showing proaction in certain situations.

Right, Zoro got the "benefit" of taking Luffy's pain, but the matter here is "taking responsabilities", and Sanji properly did that.

Spoiler

I wouldn't say Zoro is more motivated by reason, thats kinda relative, its more related to a sense of duty. Sanji trying to help Usopp feel better about himself and help to save Robin may be an emotionally driven decision, as it was when Sanji kicked Luffy before, but does it make it something unreasonable to do?

Sanji beating Luffy and wanting them to abandon him in WCI so the crew wouldn't be in such danger because of him (and other stuff) is also a reasonable decision even Zoro could potentially agree with if he was there, while at the same time hitting Luffy isn't, since for Zoro "disrespecting the captain" is worthy of you being banned from the crew. Sanji obviously took into consideration the kind of person Luffy was, and even then it was useless, because he didn't knew Luffy was willing to go so far for his sake, and im sure that Zoro would be shocked as well if he was there because Luffy didn't reacted that way when he fought Usopp, Luffy wouldn't hear anything Zoro wanted to say about the situation, Zoro would probably leave the crew if his sense of duty is absurdly more important than supporting a crewmate that was going through some stuff, i can't tell if thats what Zoro would do, but he could potentially open an exception because thats Sanji

Spoiler

Emotionally driven decisions are sometimes the most reasonable decisions, they aren't that much apart from each other.

 

[Warchief Sanji D Goat]

I would have 100% agreed with this thread if it wasn't for these specific moments here:

You can see from the first pic that show Sanji are in charge of the SHs (including Luffy and Zoro) in Enies Lobby. Then in Dressrosa, you can see Zoro agreed to Sanji’s plan, and Onigashima showing Sanji giving a speech to Chopper while Zoro is there. So on and so forth. It’s just really depending on situation, any SHs can take charge at any given time.

 

[BleakAsh]

Jerking off is haram

@Chrono repent!
I'll preface this by saying Zoro is the VC in my eyes and has been but he's not the only one as the series went on


ok so about this vice captaincy problem.. the term is up for diverse interpretations but its safe to say that hierarchy and recruitment matters alot and hence zoro's words are heavily taken into consideration he is a man of such importance to the crew after all
so implicitly i'd say yes he is the vice captain in the moment when push comes to shuv you have the Thriller bark group match against Oars where Zoro uses the crew to execute his stratagem but SHP are a unique bunch..

take Kid's crew for instance Killer is the vice captain definitively there is no one else we know oda introduced that could fight and manage in Killer's stead or someone to contend with Killer as vocal equal but again SHP ARE A UNIQUE BUNCH

.. why is it that oda has ussop as a vice captain in his early drawings and never explicitly introduced the concept into the crew in the main story but rather have the most obvious choice have a contender/substitute instead.. ?

innt?

are we forgetting how sanji teased and boldly pointed out Zoro's doubts about Luffy's success against crocy? "Let me just say it.. you are afraid zoro that luffy will loose" would a subordinate do that? 👀👀 ofc folks as wise as jimbe do have say in things due to his vast repository in terms of experience.. but back then this wasn't a reassurance to zoro but rather a question to his faith in Luffy.. thats a big thing and shows how involved sanji was in being the 3rd voice in the crew

Enies lobby Sanji reminding ussop of his worth and function in the crew and his value in the severe status quo and backing zoro's words when Nami, a very vocal and a moral anchor for the crew was against Zoro's way of dealing with the situation..
Sanji also being the only one to intervene when his captain was about to make a very dire decision in the heat of the moment against Ussop IN FRONT OF ZORO



Given how Oda has now entitled zoro and sanji as Luffy's pillars.. there is no cinch of a doubt that each can substitute for the role when it comes down to it

you can put it like this, Zoro is the primary vice captain sanji is the secondary vice captain.. coz you can't have 2 equally reliable people and have one of them as a Vice captain that kinda pointless and bewildering ...which now makes sense why oda hasn't declared zoro as a vice captain yet.. its coz there is someone who shares the same role in the crew.. someone equally reliable... and thats Vinsmoke Sanji.. Light speed Lanji, Smoking Death pack Wanji

 

[Chrono]

Yay another cope thread.

- Yh is that why Sanji led Luffy and Usopp in Skypeia, led Luffy in Drum Island, and led Zoro in PH

- Zoro is the first one stepping forward is meaningless. They both stepped forward regardless.

-Again irrelvant both wanted to sacrifice themselves, and Brook and Lolas fodders said Sanji was just as trustworthy as Zoro. All Zoro did was get the feat.

- Yh same way focus shifted to Sanji when it came to rescuing Robin in Ennies Lobby. And even Luffy was there.

- Same thing Sanji did in FI, when he told Jinbe that him and his crew will fight Hody regardless of what Jinbe says. And Luffy rides off the back of Sanji's speech

- And when Luffy shows stupidty, its Sanji that sets him on the right path...like when Luffy was about to kick Usopp outta the crew.

- Yay Zoro got to lead Sanji in Wano. Sanji led him in PH

Absoutely nice copium thread @comrade . Basic generic points all round

 

[wereng99]

To be fair you could make a compilation like this with most of the Strawhats

Then why not make one yourself?

 

[Halyup]

To be fair you could make a compilation like this with most of the Strawhats

Post the compilations then

 

[Colt Buntline]

- Yh same way focus shifted to Sanji when it came to rescuing Robin in Ennies Lobby. And even Luffy was there.

Not to mention that Zoro was literally the asshole who distrusted Robin from beginning to end, while Sanji was saying to Chopper it's the man's role to forgive a woman's lies, and moving to rescue Robin without hesitation.

Zoro behaved as totally unlike a vice-captain, who is supposed to trust and support the crew-mates.

 

[Rukusho]

Not to mention that Zoro was literally the asshole who distrusted Robin from beginning to end, while Sanji was saying to Chopper it's the man's role to forgive a woman's lies, and moving to rescue Robin without hesitation.

Zoro behaved as totally unlike a vice-captain, who is supposed to trust and support the crew-mates.

Not true…

Zoro takes the approach that protects the crew he doesn’t do things willy nilly he’s not Luffy he’s guarded and tries his best to protect everyone.

 

[Colt Buntline]

And there's also the difference between the way how Sanji and how Zoro interacted with Usopp in Enies Lobby;

Zoro's genial idea: "Let's cut one of our hands and then ask Chopper to sew it!"

Sanji: Analyses their whole situation and inspires Usopp telling him that he can save Robin.

If there's a vice-captain, it can't be the dumbest one in the crew; It has to be the smartest, who's there to give useful instruction to the rest, and Sanji is the one who does it; Not Zoro.

 

[Gol D. Roger]

And there's also the difference between the way how Sanji and how Zoro interacted with Usopp in Enies Lobby;

Zoro's genial idea: "Let's cut one of our hands and then ask Chopper to sew it!"

Sanji: Analyses their whole situation and inspires Usopp telling him that he can save Robin.

If there's a vice-captain, it can't be the dumbest one in the crew; It has to be the smartest, who's there to give useful instruction to the rest, and Sanji is the one who does it; Not Zoro.

Yeah, I can totally see Sanji sending Usopp to save Robin when their legs are cuffed while two people capable of killing him are chasing after them.

 

[Violent Sanji]

Sanji-Bros are jerking off to the fact Zoro is not an "official" vice captain, since the straw hat pirates do not have such a position. Yet, Zoro has the responsibilities of a vice captain. Call it vice captain or right hand man, but he stands above Sanji in that regard. The Manga is testament to it.

- In Luffy's absence, Zoro takes the role of the vice captain. Sanji only commands in both Luffy's and Zoro's absence.

- He is the one stepping forward first when it comes to sacrificing himself for the captain, as it was the case at Thriller Bark, where he sacrificed his dream to save Luffy. First, ordering everyone to stay back as he is the one to take on Kuma

Spoiler

- Then deciding to give his life for Luffy. Sanji stepped forward only after Zoro. And even then, Zoro was the one to take responsibility, while putting Sanji to rest.

- When Luffy made his crew escape from Crocodile in Alabasta to take him on himself, while telling his crew to take care of Vivi, the focus immediately shifted to Zoro, with him being the one to take command and Sanji simply agreeing:

Spoiler

- Even in Luffy's presence, Zoro is the one taking responsibility and exercises his authority. That was evident when Luffy, in Water 7 was to immediately forgive Usopp but Zoro was the one to forbid Luffy from doing it, saying that either Luffy teaches his crew proper respect, or he himself is the one to leave next. The moment where Sanji himself obediently agreed with Zoro, even though Zoro told Nami (who Sanji is simping for) to shut up. A powerful moment indeed.

Spoiler

When Luffy shows weakness, it is Zoro who reminds him to stay strong and to endure it, for he is the captain.

Spoiler

In Wano, Zoro was also seen taking command in Luffy's absence, including commanding Sanji:

Spoiler

Especially the points of Zoro scolding Luffy and telling him what to do and to stay strong to be a worthy captain, is not just right hand man material but straight out vice captain responsibilities. Neither Marco nor King would tell their captains what to do. Zoro does.

@HA001 @nik87 @Light D Lamperouge @Fenaker @ConquistadoR @Cinera @Veku @MonsterKaido @Chrono @Chaves @Jiihad @TheAncientCenturion @Gol D. Roger @Den_Den_Mushi @Sentinel @Finalbeta @Tyki_Mikk etc.

How when all he does is go off on his own. He is supposed to be the combatant. But he wasn’t there when Kaido attacked the strawhats in the beginning of the arc. He rarely does vice captain esque things and people point to the same dribble everytime with zoro when he checked Luffy a few times. Zoro for the most part is in the crew for his own selfish gain of being the wss. Sanji actually goes out of his way to make sure members of the crew are safe we have countless time where sanji saved crew members. Idk why some zoro fans care about the vice captain role or title who gives af. Has nothing to do with strength. And he is not the vice captain confirmed multiple times nor does he act like one most of time with the exception of a few moments.

 

[Adamxero]

Most sane fans would acknowledge that Zoro is the unofficial VC. When shit goes down and Luffy ain't there Zoro steps up.

It's how the strength hierarch goes.

Luffy takes command as he's the strongest.
Zoro next because he's the second strongest
Sanji third as he's the third strongest