Character Discussion Vol. 102 SBS proves that Zoro will be recognized as the official Vice Captain/First Mate/副船長 (Fuku Senchō) of the Strawhats at some point before EOS

ConquistadoR

The Rogue Prince
#1

Not exactly a powerlevel thread but here goes nothing. ^^

So the recent reveal in the SBS section of Volume 102 that Zoro is not yet the First Mate/Vice Captain of the crew has the fandom in splits, with some arguing that the Strawhats will never have a First Mate/Vice Captain role since that indirectly implies that he has authority over Sanji, the other Wing of the Pirate King, and with some even arguing that the role is for Usopp as seen in Oda's early drafts.

This thread is to provide some context behind the terms that are being thrown around (Right Hand Man, Vice Captain, First Mate) and to demonstrate using the manga that Zoro will indeed be recognized as the First Mate of the Strawhat Pirates.

Context and clearing the mess with the translations:

副船長 = Fuku Senchō = Vice Captain. However the official translation choses to refer to this term as "First Mate" as shown in the case of Silvers Rayleigh, even though it's a term primarily used to refer to the Vice Captain.

Very clearly, Oda thinks that the First Mate/Vice Captain and Right Hand Man are two different terms. This was proven beyond doubt when Oda introduced Rayleigh as "海賊王の右腕" (Kaizoku-Ō no Migiude / Right Hand Man of the Pirate King) and then once again refers to him as the "副船長" (Fuku Senchō / Vice Captain/First Mate) of the Roger Pirates.

Hence, Vice Captain/First Mate/副船長 (fuku senchō), Right Hand Man and the Second Strongest are three different titles and who has them depends completely on the crew and it's dynamics.

- In some crews, the same person shares all the three titles (Rayleigh in the Roger Pirates/Beckmann in the Red Hair Pirates).
- In some crews, there exists RHMs who are the second strongest but they aren't recognized as the official First Mate/Vice Captain even though they carry out those duties (Marco in the WBP/King in the Beast Pirates).
- In some crews, the second strongest aren't even given the title of RHMs, let alone recognized as the First Mate/Vice Captain (Katakuri in the BMP).

Now let's discuss Silvers Rayleigh's case.

Silvers Rayleigh, the "Fuku-Senchō" of the Roger Pirates:

Oda clearly establishes that Rayleigh is the First Mate of the Roger Pirates during his introduction itself.


He even goes on to reiterate that with making Rayleigh himself describe his position/role on the crew.


What does this mean for Roronoa Zoro?

The Strawhats share multiple parallels with the Roger Pirates - with Luffy paralleling Roger, Zoro paralleling Rayleigh, Sanji paralelling Gaban quite heavily.

Some of the parallels between Rayleigh and Zoro are:

1) They are both heavy drinkers.
2) They both possess scars on their eyes.
3) They both possess Haoshoku Haki and are blessed by the heavens.
4) Their titles/epithets reflect their drive to stand above others, with Rayleigh being referred to as "冥王" (Mei-Ou / the Dark King) and Zoro being referred to as "閻王" (En-Ou / the King of Hell) with both the titles only differing in a single Kanji.
5) They are both swordsmen.
6) They are/will become legends of their own right; with Monkey D. Garp referring to Rayleigh as a "legend" while putting him on the same pedestal as Yonkou Whitebeard and Zoro promising to become so strong as the future World's Strongest Swordsman that his name would reach the heavens.

And as @comrade highlighted in his thread about Zoro already shouldering much of the responsibilities that comes with being a Vice Captain in his thread, it is all but guaranteed that Zoro will be recognized as the "副船長" (Fuku Senchō / Vice Captain/First Mate) of the Strawhat Pirates sometime before the series ends, just like how his parallel Rayleigh was recognized. Infact, the new SBS coming out and reiterating that Zoro is not yet recognized as the First Mate of the Strawhats only reinforces that the title is a big deal in Oda's mind and it would be a future character moment for Zoro when he is finally recognized.

And this moment from Bartolomeo in chapter 723 can be considered as solid forshadowing for the same as well. Notice the use of the exact same verbage as in the case with Rayleigh.


Doesn't the "Wings of the Pirate King" concept contradict one Wing having authority over the other:

We have seen many crews in the series share the "Wings of their Captain" concept when it comes to their #2s and #3s , some examples being the King-Queen pair in the Beast Pirates, Marco-Jozu pair in the Whitebeard Pirates, possibly Shiryu-Laffitte pair in the Blackbeard Pirates and most importantly, the Rayleigh-Gaban pair in the Roger Pirates.



However, Oda still chose to classify Silvers Rayleigh as the First Mate or Vice Captain of the Roger Pirates, without any discrepancies. Given how Zoro and Sanji parallel this duo, I doubt that this would be a valid reason to not classify Roronoa Zoro as the First Mate or Vice Captain of the Strawhat Pirates.

I rest my case. Do post your thoughts and arguments.

Tags:
@Cinera @TheAncientCenturion @Topi Jerami @Aknolagon @Patryipe @Shanal @Sentinel @Tyki_Mikk @MarineHQ62 @ReggieZoldyck21 @rerere @Seth @Zowo @Peroroncino @Trafalgar_D_Law @Fisher Tiger @Veku @Geo @Kiiro @LANJI CUCKSMOKE @TheKnightOfTheSea @Garps tekkai @Midnight Delight @Van @Ice devil slayer @Monet @Reborn @Cuistot @Fenaker @RayanOO @ShishioIsBack @Orojackson Refugee @Dragomir @Sword God Ryuma @DarkWitch @stormylife @Mr. Anderson @HA001 @Afroking @ZenZu @NotTommy @Sanji D Goat @Yasheen @AdmiralKinyagi @Tripod @Psalm @Echizen_Jo_Ndule @Kuro Ashi @ThatMojaveCourier06 @Phoenix @soheilhazrat @Straight From Laughtale @Ven437 @Jailer @ReggieZoldyck21 @Bogard @Dr_Professor83 @bennbeckman @SinOfGreed @Zenos7 @Garp the Fist @Marimo_420 @stairs-kun @ZenZu @worst pirate @Photon @LuffyMazino @Finalbeta @PizzaBread @kumae @mly90 @HAJIKING @ShinmenTakezo @ShadyOjiro @JazzMazz @Rivaille @Celestial D. Dragon @comrade @Shiroyru @Cannibal @Nidai_Kitetsu @Daikenki @Gensui Sazid @Rosella.Fiamingo @Fujishiro @Mugiwara56 @wys @park_min young @Rukusho @Orojackson Refugee @nik87 @Sasaki Kojirō @MonsterKaido @Tejas @Hanzo hattori @Monkey D Theories @wys @Fn Lucci @Chrono @Vinsmoke D. Zolo @hayze moya @PuckTheGreat @Garp the Fist @Roo etc,.
 

Reborn

Throughout Heaven & Earth,I alone am d Honored One
#7

Not exactly a powerlevel thread but here goes nothing. ^^

So the recent reveal in the SBS section of Volume 102 that Zoro is not yet the First Mate/Vice Captain of the crew has the fandom in splits, with some arguing that the Strawhats will never have a First Mate/Vice Captain role since that indirectly implies that he has authority over Sanji, the other Wing of the Pirate King, and with some even arguing that the role is for Usopp as seen in Oda's early drafts.

This thread is to provide some context behind the terms that are being thrown around (Right Hand Man, Vice Captain, First Mate) and to demonstrate using the manga that Zoro will indeed be recognized as the First Mate of the Strawhat Pirates.

Context and clearing the mess with the translations:

副船長 = Fuku Senchō = Vice Captain. However the official translation choses to refer to this term as "First Mate" as shown in the case of Silvers Rayleigh, even though it's a term primarily used to refer to the Vice Captain.

Very clearly, Oda thinks that the First Mate/Vice Captain and Right Hand Man are two different terms. This was proven beyond doubt when Oda introduced Rayleigh as "海賊王の右腕" (Kaizoku-Ō no Migiude / Right Hand Man of the Pirate King) and then once again refers to him as the "副船長" (Fuku Senchō / Vice Captain/First Mate) of the Roger Pirates.

Hence, Vice Captain/First Mate/副船長 (fuku senchō), Right Hand Man and the Second Strongest are three different titles and who has them depends completely on the crew and it's dynamics.

- In some crews, the same person shares all the three titles (Rayleigh in the Roger Pirates/Beckmann in the Red Hair Pirates).
- In some crews, there exists RHMs who are the second strongest but they aren't recognized as the official First Mate/Vice Captain even though they carry out those duties (Marco in the WBP/King in the Beast Pirates).
- In some crews, the second strongest aren't even given the title of RHMs, let alone recognized as the First Mate/Vice Captain (Katakuri in the BMP).

Now let's discuss Silvers Rayleigh's case.

Silvers Rayleigh, the "Fuku-Senchō" of the Roger Pirates:

Oda clearly establishes that Rayleigh is the First Mate of the Roger Pirates during his introduction itself.


He even goes on to reiterate that with making Rayleigh himself describe his position/role on the crew.


What does this mean for Roronoa Zoro?

The Strawhats share multiple parallels with the Roger Pirates - with Luffy paralleling Roger, Zoro paralleling Rayleigh, Sanji paralelling Gaban quite heavily.

Some of the parallels between Rayleigh and Zoro are:

1) They are both heavy drinkers.
2) They both possess scars on their eyes.
3) They both possess Haoshoku Haki and are blessed by the heavens.
4) Their titles/epithets reflect their drive to stand above others, with Rayleigh being referred to as "冥王" (Mei-Ou / the Dark King) and Zoro being referred to as "閻王" (En-Ou / the King of Hell) with both the titles only differing in a single Kanji.
5) They are both swordsmen.
6) They are/will become legends of their own right; with Monkey D. Garp referring to Rayleigh as a "legend" while putting him on the same pedestal as Yonkou Whitebeard and Zoro promising to become so strong as the future World's Strongest Swordsman that his name would reach the heavens.

And as @comrade highlighted in his thread about Zoro already shouldering much of the responsibilities that comes with being a Vice Captain in his thread, it is all but guaranteed that Zoro will be recognized as the "副船長" (Fuku Senchō / Vice Captain/First Mate) of the Strawhat Pirates sometime before the series ends, just like how his parallel Rayleigh was recognized. Infact, the new SBS coming out and reiterating that Zoro is not yet recognized as the First Mate of the Strawhats only reinforces that the title is a big deal in Oda's mind and it would be a future character moment for Zoro when he is finally recognized.

And this moment from Bartolomeo in chapter 723 can be considered as solid forshadowing for the same as well. Notice the use of the exact same verbage as in the case with Rayleigh.


Doesn't the "Wings of the Pirate King" concept contradict one Wing having authority over the other:

We have seen many crews in the series share the "Wings of their Captain" concept when it comes to their #2s and #3s , some examples being the King-Queen pair in the Beast Pirates, Marco-Jozu pair in the Whitebeard Pirates, possibly Shiryu-Laffitte pair in the Blackbeard Pirates and most importantly, the Rayleigh-Gaban pair in the Roger Pirates.



However, Oda still chose to classify Silvers Rayleigh as the First Mate or Vice Captain of the Roger Pirates, without any discrepancies. Given how Zoro and Sanji parallel this duo, I doubt that this would be a valid reason to not classify Roronoa Zoro as the First Mate or Vice Captain of the Strawhat Pirates.

I rest my case. Do post your thoughts and arguments.

Tags:
@Cinera @TheAncientCenturion @Topi Jerami @Aknolagon @Patryipe @Shanal @Sentinel @Tyki_Mikk @MarineHQ62 @ReggieZoldyck21 @rerere @Seth @Zowo @Peroroncino @Trafalgar_D_Law @Fisher Tiger @Veku @Geo @Kiiro @LANJI CUCKSMOKE @TheKnightOfTheSea @Garps tekkai @Midnight Delight @Van @Ice devil slayer @Monet @Reborn @Cuistot @Fenaker @RayanOO @ShishioIsBack @Orojackson Refugee @Dragomir @Sword God Ryuma @DarkWitch @stormylife @Mr. Anderson @HA001 @Afroking @ZenZu @NotTommy @Sanji D Goat @Yasheen @AdmiralKinyagi @Tripod @Psalm @Echizen_Jo_Ndule @Kuro Ashi @ThatMojaveCourier06 @Phoenix @soheilhazrat @Straight From Laughtale @Ven437 @Jailer @ReggieZoldyck21 @Bogard @Dr_Professor83 @bennbeckman @SinOfGreed @Zenos7 @Garp the Fist @Marimo_420 @stairs-kun @ZenZu @worst pirate @Photon @LuffyMazino @Finalbeta @PizzaBread @kumae @mly90 @HAJIKING @ShinmenTakezo @ShadyOjiro @JazzMazz @Rivaille @Celestial D. Dragon @comrade @Shiroyru @Cannibal @Nidai_Kitetsu @Daikenki @Gensui Sazid @Rosella.Fiamingo @Fujishiro @Mugiwara56 @wys @park_min young @Rukusho @Orojackson Refugee @nik87 @Sasaki Kojirō @MonsterKaido @Tejas @Hanzo hattori @Monkey D Theories @wys @Fn Lucci @Chrono @Vinsmoke D. Zolo @hayze moya @PuckTheGreat @Garp the Fist @Roo etc,.
:cheers:


Wonderful work, conqi
 

ConquistadoR

The Rogue Prince
#9
Atleast read and give proper arguments.

1045 chaps in and he still aint.


Never will be
Was called the "Fuku Sencho" by Bartolomeo, something that no one else in the crew has ever gotten. Rayleigh, who Zoro parallels, canonically is the First Mate/Vice Captain of the Roger Pirates, whom the SHPs parallel.

Don't throw tantrums like a child when he is called the Fuku Sencho before the series ends. Maybe even when we get the Bounty reveals at End of Wano, who knows....
 
#14
if oda gives zoro the vice-captain position, it would just be an empty title since he would never use it, or would you start looking for 5 panels in a 10000 panel manga to show when zoro showed signs of a vice captain, but it won't take you time to find panel where sanji, nami or the others did their own duty.

zoros duty is combatant not vice captain, and if the strawhats actually needed a vice-cpatian I am sure nami is more deserving of that position
 

ConquistadoR

The Rogue Prince
#15
if oda gives zoro the vice-captain position, it would just be an empty title since he would never use it, or would you start looking for 5 panels in a 10000 panel manga to show when zoro showed signs of a vice captain, but it won't take you time to find panel where sanji, nami or the others did their own duty.

zoros duty is combatant not vice captain, and if the strawhats actually needed a vice-cpatian I am sure nami is more deserving of that position
Sure, Nami would be the Fuku Sencho of the crew instead of "En-Ou" Zoro, y'know the one who explicitly parallels "Mei-Ou" Rayleigh - the Fuku Sencho of the Pirate King's crew.
 
#16
Pointless thread, I'm afraid.

Everything in here has already been discussed over and over; doesn't bring anything new to the table and even contains made up assumptions like other "top duos" sharing a "Wings" treatment too or public opinion having anything to do with recognizing who is or isn't the first mate (they can recognize whoever they want: it's a hierarchical role that only affects those inside the crew and falls to the captain's assignment, not a public contest).
 
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